While I agree that thee 26-8 FT disparity is not a be all end all. While some calls were justified, many leading to FTs were not. Again not a be all end all indicator but when you see the FT disparity game after game....
The refs ******* suck. Pure trash
- Thread starter lunker35
- Start date
From my not so comfy seat in a sweltering WR, I would disagree. There was a ton of stuff going on off ball. I felt some calls were ticky tac on the Cats. Maybe they were fouls, but Wisky was doing the same and not getting called. We may have lost anyway, but there was iMO more to complain about in this game than most. That last minute of MSU coupled with this game gets you questioning what the heck is going on.
The thought that many of the calls in the last minute were bad is not mutually exclusive with the thought that we didn't lose because of them.
(I'm getting more and more excited about Roper, who really looks the part.)
- The ref blew the whistle on the would-be Audige steal before he even made contact with the ball. Ref decided Audige was giving the foul and blew the whistle before the play happened. This is unacceptable.
- We shot around 22% from 3 until the flurry in the last minute made the final numbers more respectable. For the first 30 minutes, Wisconsin was over 70%. That delta is what separated them for most of the game. We just didn't make enough shots; my turning point was a missed Buie 3 that rattled out with about 3:30 to go, which would have cut the lead from 4 to 1. Roof would have blown off the building.
- This is, I believe, the fourth straight game we've fouled a 3-point shooter. This one didn't go down for the 4-point play, but Davison hit all 3 FTs. There's 3 points in a close game that we handed them.
- We were somewhere around 50% on layups again. Better than what we've seen in some other games, but that number's gotta be higher. One could suppose some of those are uncalled fouls, but I think we don't get some of the calls because our guys fade away, adjust the ball position at the rim to go up and under, or otherwise avoid just going straight to the rim.
- We were something like 0/5 on fast break opportunities. Convert those, some of those, and it's a different game. Go even 3/5 on those and you have 6 points. We lost by 6.
- As others noted, we left 6 points on the board on free throws. We lost by 6.
- As others noted, Wisconsin hit a half-court heave at the end of 1H and Davis hit absolute junk, double-clutched, at the end of a shot clock where we played great D. There's 6 points. We lost by 6.
(I'm getting more and more excited about Roper, who really looks the part.)
If we ty this approach, we may get to the bottom of the referee bias...
I know I am a real outlier here. I think it is plausible that the Cats consistently draw a few more whistles based on perception rather than fact. Having said this, I think the real disparities this year arise from three drivers: The first is that Collins’ defensive schemes outside favor fighting through screens rather than switching with players who are not as gifted as the ones he had at Duke. Secondly, the Nance/Beran 4-5 combo is physically overmatched by most B1G interior defenses. Finally, Young and Nicholson are both a step slow in defending the block (especially when tired) and tend to grab.
I have reffed a lot of basketball, and blown calls like the one on Audige last night aside, I see the Cats generally fouling more (or at least doing things I would whistle) than their B1G opponents. That has been pretty true the last few years.
What matters more is who plays more minutes and, as a corollary, who's on the floor at the end.
The call on Audige was terrible, but the problem with it wasn’t the anticipatory whistle per se. The problem was that the ref failed to adjust his position to see the play on the ball. As a ref, you have to have situational awareness. You know, trailing by four with little time left that a Cat defender, given the opportunity, will play through the ball in a steal attempt and foul if he doesn’t get all ball to stop the clock and force free throws. The ref was behind the play and made no effort to move to see the point of anticipated contact. Once he did that, he HAD to blow the whistle. Almost always in that situation, the defender makes contact: let’s say 9 times out of 10. Maybe 1 in 10 times the ball is knocked free. As a ref who cannot see the play, you play the percentage.
Imagine the uproar from the Badger fans on that play if Audige HAD made contact (say a 9 out of 10 chance like I said) and the ref had not whistled. Audige roars down the court, dunks, it is a two point game in pandemonium and the Cats go on to win. 9 times out of 10 you avert a horrendous call by blowing the whistle. 1 out of 10 times you make a horrendous call.
The issue last night wasn’t that he blew the whistle, it was he did not position himself to avoid the situation I just described so he could make a call on visual evidence and not probable inference.
Agreed. Fouls are generally the result of being beaten on a play, either by a better opposing athlete, a schema advantage, or frankly just not being very good. We don't match up athletically with the better teams in the conference. We don't shoot as well; we are not as fast; we don't have the same combination of length and quickness. So we are probably going to be fouling more.
But the phantom call on Audige and the non-travel call on Punk Davison in the wake of the MSU game are galling for when they occurred. In end of game situations where everything counts, the refs have to be better. They have been terrible.
It's an odd game flow because the overall foul called were 18 for NU and 13 for Wisconsin, but it was 14-13 until the last minute of the game when NU had 4 intentional fouls to send the Badgers to the line on purpose. As you note, the FT disparity isn't really the amount of fouls called as the when and where they were called.
I agree with this but against WI in particular we are not less athletic than they are.
I appreciate your perspective, but this is a results-oriented business. You can't guess. Whatever the reasoning for it, he blew the call. And I'd still put it about 10th on the list of things that resulted in our loss.
Except for Davis. Very naturally gifted shooter, and quite fast. Also some length (listed at 6'5"). As someone noted, he has NBA career ahead of him. We have never had a guy like him.
In Big Ten games...
NU ranks 14th in Opponent Free Throw attempts.
NU ranks 9th in Free Throw Attempts.
NU ranks 13th in Opponent 3-point attempts and 13th in Opponent 3FG%.
NU ranks first in Opponent 2-point attempts. Sixth in Opponent 2FG%.
NU ranks first in 2 point Field Goals Attempted.
NU ranks 14th in 2 point FG%.
NU ranks second in 3 point Field Goals Attempted.
NU ranks 8th in 3 point FG%.
I'd say our problems are...
1) perimeter defense
2) too many missed shots in the paint
3) some sort of ref bias
I agree that Nance/Beran are often pushed around in the post.
I agree that Young is a half step slow.
I disagree that Young grabs. I would say he almost never grabs.
Nicholson is not slow at all. Ask Steven Crowl. (I have an uncontested dunk. Oh wait, I just got posterized by Nicholson)
Some refs just target big guys. That bias has been around forever.
What about the 4 (?) missed layups???? WI should have fouled Young every trip up the floor. He should not have been in the game down the stretch.
Did not see the game, I cancelled Hulu after football season. But - there seems to be a lot of stat emphasis here, so here's another one. We had four players combine for 2 points and 10 fouls. Three of those guys combined for zero points, zero rebounds. one assist, no steals, no blocks, and 7 fouls. Hard to win that way.
Well, as a matter of fact, Wisconsin DID foul Young every trip up the court.
Refs only called the blatant ones.
i was there watching. the fouls were off the ball, over and over, smaller defenders plowing into his back.
I was commenting primarily on the things WIS had done and other issues where they were rewarded and we were not. Yes we also had self inflicted issues that affected the outcome of which the missed layups were one of but the shooter was often fouled and foul not called . Also the missed FTs.
Because if you watch much college basketball and not just the big 10 you realize Wisconsin looks like one of those Big 10 teams that is highly ranked and then flames out in the tourney because in the big scope they aren’t that great.
I am an Illini fan and I came here to see if the NW fans had any reaction to the officiating in the WI game. You guys got jobbed. The Audige foul was a phantom call - an inexecusable screw up by a B1G referee. There are certain teams in this league - WI, PU, and MSU in particular - who get away with this kind of BS and the B1G conference says/does nothing. It's sickening. What accountability do these referees have? Does the B1G office provide any feedback/training/critical assessment of these idiots? It's time for Collins, the other coaches, and the ADs to start speaking up - otherwise the incompetent Commissioner Warren will do nothing. Thanks for letting me vent here.
Not sure it matters who starts does it? They both need playing time and then CC needs to determine who plays more in a given game based on how they are playing. Young guys tend to have more ups and downs.
At least Davison didn’t grab anybody’s nuts last night (well at least not anybody on NU)…
What’s this like his 8th year of college?
Davison strikes me as a guy who spent a couple years at Stevens Point and then Whitewater before enrolling in university college to get a degree in general studies while he hoops it up with his sport bros.
The ref who made the foul call on Audige was behind the play but at an angle. I thought there was a chance that he could see the play. However, if his vision was blocked, there was a ref, in front of the Wisconsin bench, just to the left of Gard, who had a completely unobstructed view, who could have made the call. He should have deferred to him.
Another great ref call against Iowa in last few seconds ...
Even Hummel thought it was suspect
Ref call last few seconds
Even Hummel thought it was suspect
Ref call last few seconds
They play very well as a team which wins a lot of games is what gets them ranked. They don't have the best talent. When they get into the dance, generally their opponent might have more talent and if they play well that night, WIS is out. That is the one and done situation. Generally they end up about 10-25 and they tend to play at that level
Yeah it was just a horrible call - ticky tack foul with 2 seconds left in a physical, low scoring tie game.
Gave the win to Rutgers.
What can you say? I mean, the ref couldn't have known there wouldn't be a foul when he blew the whistle before the play happened.
I can't tell if he just put that right forearm on the Rutgers' player or if there was a split second where he put two hands on the guy. If he put two hands on the dribbler, then I'd be less upset at that call.
College needs the replay challenge like the NBA has. We wouldn't have gotten the fastbreak points, but we would have avoided the Wisconsin free throws and had a jump ball.
Ref that made the wrong call on the Audige steal on Tuesday night was the same one who made the wrong call on Murray last night - among other bad officiating decisions.
Courtney Green
Totally not surprising to see the little guys like NU and Iowa get screwed in favor of traditional powers like...Rutgers?Stunned Mcaffrey’s head did not explode
