Toggle sidebar

The Rinse and Repeaters

W

Wrestleknownothing

All-Conference
Oct 30, 2021
1,485
3,973
113
This one is for you @mac119

Everyone knows about the lazy wrestlers who just want to get off the mat and get some rest - The Pin Fellers.

But what about the guys who like to play with their food, get in the extra work, score more points - The Rinse and Repeaters.

There was a time when there was no tech fall. If you wanted to take a guy down, cut him ,and do it all over again (and again and again), you could. It wasn't your job to stop you from running up the score. It was the other guy's job. So it is a pleasant surprise that the top match point scorer of all-time comes from the TF era (1985 - present).

I give you the guys who racked up the most NCAA tournament match points in a single year on the way to victory.

image.png.9f24a53e0ed5f918e8054e93a6f296a5.png

Of course, this isn't all about takedowns. Back points were available. But it is a lot about takedowns.

These totals do not include any points scored on the way to pinfalls, as those are not recorded in the brackets.

Now let's look at just the TF era. For this we will go a bit deeper to include anyone who scored at least 75 match points in a single tournament

image.png.6702dc941bae52ab0222090ad4a79d10.png

You may be wondering how that compares to recent times. Well, wonder no more. The leaders for the 2025 tournament:

image.png.e9bfe067d554a5581e64d8dc09f50b26.png

Anyone else surprised to see Mesenbrink outscored at his own weight?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TarpHawk1, Pakman770, The-Dude-Abides and 4 others
T

Trakker

All-Conference
Jan 1, 2023
700
1,895
93
Wrestleknownothing said:
This one is for you @mac119

Everyone knows about the lazy wrestlers who just want to get off the mat and get some rest - The Pin Fellers.

But what about the guys who like to play with their food, get in the extra work, score more points - The Rinse and Repeaters.

There was a time when there was no tech fall. If you wanted to take a guy down, cut him ,and do it all over again (and again and again), you could. It wasn't your job to stop you from running up the score. It was the other guy's job. So it is a pleasant surprise that the top match point scorer of all-time comes from the TF era (1985 - present).

I give you the guys who racked up the most NCAA tournament match points in a single year on the way to victory.

image.png.9f24a53e0ed5f918e8054e93a6f296a5.png

Of course, this isn't all about takedowns. Back points were available. But it is a lot about takedowns.

These totals do not include any points scored on the way to pinfalls, as those are not recorded in the brackets.

Now let's look at just the TF era. For this we will go a bit deeper to include anyone who scored at least 75 match points in a single tournament

image.png.6702dc941bae52ab0222090ad4a79d10.png

You may be wondering how that compares to recent times. Well, wonder no more. The leaders for the 2025 tournament:

image.png.e9bfe067d554a5581e64d8dc09f50b26.png

Anyone else surprised to see Mesenbrink outscored at his own weight?
Click to expand...
Hall wrestled in the cons. side of the bracket so it was easier to rack up more pts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anon1751367499 and Wrestleknownothing
mac119

mac119

Redshirt
Sep 17, 2017
37
47
18
Wrestleknownothing said:
This one is for you @mac119

Everyone knows about the lazy wrestlers who just want to get off the mat and get some rest - The Pin Fellers.

But what about the guys who like to play with their food, get in the extra work, score more points - The Rinse and Repeaters.

There was a time when there was no tech fall. If you wanted to take a guy down, cut him ,and do it all over again (and again and again), you could. It wasn't your job to stop you from running up the score. It was the other guy's job. So it is a pleasant surprise that the top match point scorer of all-time comes from the TF era (1985 - present).

I give you the guys who racked up the most NCAA tournament match points in a single year on the way to victory.

image.png.9f24a53e0ed5f918e8054e93a6f296a5.png

Of course, this isn't all about takedowns. Back points were available. But it is a lot about takedowns.

These totals do not include any points scored on the way to pinfalls, as those are not recorded in the brackets.

Now let's look at just the TF era. For this we will go a bit deeper to include anyone who scored at least 75 match points in a single tournament

image.png.6702dc941bae52ab0222090ad4a79d10.png

You may be wondering how that compares to recent times. Well, wonder no more. The leaders for the 2025 tournament:

image.png.e9bfe067d554a5581e64d8dc09f50b26.png

Anyone else surprised to see Mesenbrink outscored at his own weight?
Click to expand...
Great information!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nashville_Hawk and Wrestleknownothing
V

vhsalum1

Senior
Jul 8, 2025
387
994
93
Anon1750896976 said:
Good stuff. I know people debate on 80s/90s studs couldn't hang with current studs but TnT would win today like they did in 80s/90s. Animals!
Click to expand...
Absolute freaks.

They'd be just fine. They're literally superhuman with their ability to train hard over extended periods of time without taking "damage"
 
dtripp26

dtripp26

Heisman
Oct 29, 2003
10,200
30,440
113
Brands total is a bit skewed by that insane match against Joey Gilbert that ended 33-19!!!
Two TF, then DEC, a run of the mill 33-19 MAJOR and a 5-3 DEC in the finals.

With the 3pt TD and 4pt NF Tom could have had over 100 points in 5 matches.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HawkDay1
A

Anon1750896976

Senior
Jun 25, 2025
222
407
63
dtripp26 said:
Brands total is a bit skewed by that insane match against Joey Gilbert that ended 33-19!!!
Two TF, then DEC, a run of the mill 33-19 MAJOR and a 5-3 DEC in the finals.

With the 3pt TD and 4pt NF Tom could have had over 100 points in 5 matches.
Click to expand...
Brands prime vs SL prime. I go with TBs
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trapper85
M

MSU158

All-Conference
Nov 20, 2014
962
2,459
93
KarlRamrahd said:
If SL had Gable to coach him instead of tom brands its SL all day.
Click to expand...
LMFAO. As if the Gable-coached Brands Bros. don't know how to train? Has anyone not noticed how ridiculous the output at 125 and 133 has been under them? Your argument could maybe be made OUTSIDE that weight range, but even Spencer would say there wasn't and STILL IS NO better coaching situation for him than where he is now...
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: T8KUDWN, Cali_Nittany1 and KarlRamrahd
K

KarlRamrahd

Senior
Jul 2, 2025
1,342
968
113
MSU158 said:
LMFAO. As if the Gable-coached Brands Bros. don't know how to train? Has anyone not noticed how ridiculous the output at 125 and 133 has been under them? Your argument could maybe be made OUTSIDE that weight range, but even Spencer would say there wasn't and STILL IS NO better coaching situation for him than where he is now...
Click to expand...
Ya, who wants the coach who had 3x as many national champs? Gimme the brands!!
 
M

MSU158

All-Conference
Nov 20, 2014
962
2,459
93
KarlRamrahd said:
You've obviously got a list. Reveal it.
Click to expand...
I’ve posted it several times over the years. You are the one that made the argument. I simply asked you to cite the actual stats that prove it. Again, compare the results at the two lowest weights under both coaches, with a special emphasis on 125(since that is the weight Lee wrestled)…then make sure to remember the fact that the Brands literally wrestled at those weights under Gable and there is no one better at translating it.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: KarlRamrahd
K

KarlRamrahd

Senior
Jul 2, 2025
1,342
968
113
MSU158 said:
I’ve posted it several times over the years. You are the one that made the argument. I simply asked you to cite the actual stats that prove it. Again, compare the results at the two lowest weights under both coaches, with a special emphasis on 125(since that is the weight Lee wrestled)…then make sure to remember the fact that the Brands literally wrestled at those weights under Gable and there is no one better at translating it.
Click to expand...
Except gable, hence having more than 3x the number of national champions.
 
K

KarlRamrahd

Senior
Jul 2, 2025
1,342
968
113
MSU158 said:
Nice deflection. Again, compare the results at the actual weight Lee wrestled. Including the fact that Lee was a 3xer and even Gable never had a 4xer…
Click to expand...
Im taking gable every time at every weight. 45 ncaa titles, what's brands at? Bakers dozen?

🤣
 
M

MSU158

All-Conference
Nov 20, 2014
962
2,459
93
KarlRamrahd said:
Im taking gable every time at every weight. 45 ncaa titles, what's brands at? Bakers dozen?

🤣
Click to expand...
If we were actually arguing who the better overall coach is, I would pick Gable with zero doubt. However, this started by you saying Lee would be so much better if he wrestled for Gable instead of Brands and that simply isn’t true. Terry is an absolute master with the little guys and the only things that held Lee back were Covid and his own personal proneness to injury…
 
K

KarlRamrahd

Senior
Jul 2, 2025
1,342
968
113
MSU158 said:
If we were actually arguing who the better overall coach is, I would pick Gable with zero doubt. However, this started by you saying Lee would be so much better if he wrestled for Gable instead of Brands and that simply isn’t true. Terry is an absolute master with the little guys and the only things that held Lee back were Covid and his own personal proneness to injury…
Click to expand...
Lee would have been better with gable.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: MSU158
Hawkfan1986

Hawkfan1986

Senior
Mar 26, 2019
111
467
63
MSU158 said:
LMFAO. As if the Gable-coached Brands Bros. don't know how to train? Has anyone not noticed how ridiculous the output at 125 and 133 has been under them? Your argument could maybe be made OUTSIDE that weight range, but even Spencer would say there wasn't and STILL IS NO better coaching situation for him than where he is now...
Click to expand...
I hate to agree with that **** ramrod but come on man, Gable was a better coach than Brands. I think Tom would say the same thing. Just because someone was coached by a guy doesn’t mean that he has the ability to hand down those lessons as successfully as he received them. Due to 1000 different factors.
 
M

MSU158

All-Conference
Nov 20, 2014
962
2,459
93
Hawkfan1986 said:
I hate to agree with that **** ramrod but. One on man, Gable was a better coach than Brands. I think Tom would say the same thing. Just because someone was coached by a guy doesn’t mean that he has the ability to hand down those lessons as successfully as he received them. Due to 1000 different factors.
Click to expand...
Make no mistake, I am NOT saying Brands is on par with Gable as a coach. Far from it. However, what they have done with the little guys is incredible. Especially Terry. Not only are they way ahead of every other team in DI production, but look at his guys at the World Level going back to Cejudo...

To be clear, I just don't think Lee would have been any better coached by Gable. The only things that held him back were injuries. Also, Tom or Terry would have been a matchup nightmare for Lee. Lee dominated with pure physical strength. This sure wasn't a weakness for the Brand Bros. Meanwhile, they had energizer bunny gas tanks and Lee's one weakness was the 3rd period and that was mainly a byproduct of his injuries.

Neither of those issues are things that Gable was miraculously going to fix. Even he had his share of top guys dealing with major injuries. Lewboo being one of the most relatable to Lee...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Trapper85 and KarlRamrahd
M

MSU158

All-Conference
Nov 20, 2014
962
2,459
93
Cali_Nittany1 said:
I don't have the #s compiled for the Gable years but here's a chart showing 125 during TnT. Inside the bars are the # of NCs, AAs and NQs. Iowa and Ok State are the only schools to qualify 125 every year (Iowa performed a bit better...)

View attachment 860685
Click to expand...
Thank you for further proving the only point I was making. If I had to pick a coach, I would pick Gable every single day of the week. However, that doesn’t mean that Spencer Lee would have been better under him.

The Brands definitely have their weaknesses. But the lightest weight class sure as hell isn’t one of them…
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Trapper85 and KarlRamrahd
You must log in or register to reply here.