What nonsense. Both of you parrot Russias narrative.
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
Whatever. I told you from the beginning basically verbatim what that guy in the Rogan clip I posted said, much to your chagrin. To you, he's just parroting some narrative.
But he's a billionaire security expert, master of his craft and worked for Reagan. I'm just some guy on the internet, "clown" according to your immature ad homs, who happens to like the same team as you. BigblueInsanity and Caveman likewise; "aren't supported by fact."
We're all just clowns to you who parrot someone else's narrative.No, you're wrong. You're all wrong.
Good lord. Can you be any more pro Russian? Your claims aren't supported by fact. They are pushed by Putin. After all this time either you don't understand what's behind this war or you're intentionally complicit in Russias narrative.
In Ukraine, Language is Political | UW College of Arts & Sciences
Ukraine's national language is Ukrainian, but many citizens grew up speaking Russian. Does that matter? Professor Laada Bilaniuk studies language and Ukrainian identity.artsci.washington.edu
Putins pet!
Im not pro Russian. I thought it was dangerously dishonest, or aloof, when a presidential debate included a "zinger" about the 80s wanting their foreign policy back.
Russia is a dangerous foe. That doesn't mean their actions of wanting to annex another country is excusable from a moral perspective. However we also shouldn't deny its nato and the US that kept crossing lines and escalating the situation giving them justification for their encroachment.
It also important to understand Putin is capable and cold, but not the reckless lunatic we were told. If he was, he would've retaliated when we destroyed their pipeline. That was an incredibly reckless attack. Imagine if they destroyed a pipeline of ours?
Do you have this stupid post on repeat? Just state your position and stop pretending people who disagree are Russian apologists or on the Putin payroll. This thread would be half the size if you could just stop yourself.Good lord. Can you be any more pro Russian? Your claims aren't supported by fact. They are pushed by Putin. After all this time either you don't understand what's behind this war or you're intentionally complicit in Russias narrative.
In Ukraine, Language is Political | UW College of Arts & Sciences
Ukraine's national language is Ukrainian, but many citizens grew up speaking Russian. Does that matter? Professor Laada Bilaniuk studies language and Ukrainian identity.
Of course you (he) can find some Ukrainian-American sociologist to tell you actually what you wanted to hear; first hit on your google search. That's how it works.
None of that changes the stone cold fact that the people of se ukraine are predominately russian. An imaginary line drawn on a map doesn't change that reality.
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"We" didn't destroy the pipeline. Of course, you can change my mind with actual evidence. We also didn't cause Russias behavior.
No one ever accused you of being honest, or understanding history.
You're almost as bad at history as Dion, just as incapable of substantive discourse.
Yes sure. The pipeline gremlins did it.
What discourse? You make a statement out of the blue w/o basis & just expect people to accept it as true. HC.
No I didn't, and no I don't.
You're in general incapable of any genuinely substantive discourse as you've repeatedly demonstrated on the Catpaw. The only group of people here who were able to see through you and your antics were in the OG Covid thread, whose members unceremoniously summarily ran you off.
You can find your own sources, but:
" In the 2001 Ukrainian census, 8,334,100 identified themselves as ethnic Russians (17.3% of the population of Ukraine); this is the combined figure for persons originating from outside of Ukraine and the Ukrainian-born population declaring Russian ethnicity."
Russians in Ukraine - Wikipedia
"Ukrainians and Russians are distinct peoples with separate identities, languages, and cultures, though they share common East Slavic roots, with Ukrainians developing unique traits influenced by Polish, Lithuanian, and Cossack history, leading to different value systems"
You can find your own sources, but:
" In the 2001 Ukrainian census, 8,334,100 identified themselves as ethnic Russians (17.3% of the population of Ukraine); this is the combined figure for persons originating from outside of Ukraine and the Ukrainian-born population declaring Russian ethnicity."
Russians in Ukraine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
"Ukrainians and Russians are distinct peoples with separate identities, languages, and cultures, though they share common East Slavic roots, with Ukrainians developing unique traits influenced by Polish, Lithuanian, and Cossack history, leading to different value systems"
I know what the (useful) narrative is, why/how it is manufactured. They are the same people nevertheless, namely, the descendants of the Kievan Rus.
And I was talking specifically about the people in the disputed regions, not the whole of Ukraine.
You (you all in the pro-war camp) don't know a damn thing about these people other than what has been expediently and expeditiously spoon fed to you. Ukrainians and Russians do not have different value systems, any real noteworthy distinction between them like other tribes of Europeans do. I remember one time at the beginning of this needless, easily avoidable war when I was actually engaging you lot I posted a video of a young Zelly himself (when he was campaigning on his platform of reconciliation with Russian-Ukrainians ) literally telling his russian speaking Ukrainian audience( in russian of course, the only language he knew at the time) that they were of course the same people. You people with your war lust induced cognitive dissonance and cultivated ignorance accused me of posting a deep fake.
No, you knew nothing about these people before the invasion. You know less than nothing now afterward while the curated pro-war narrative tickles you right where you like it; your accusation is your confession.
Oh, and that reality in no way excuses or justifies Putin's aggression into Ukraine, nor is it being putin's puppet.
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So what's the pre-2014 data for each of those regions of people there saying they were Russian vs. Ukrainian? Speaking Russian doesn't define it.I know what the (useful) narrative is, why/how it is manufactured. They are the same people nevertheless, namely, the descendants of the Kievan Rus.
And I was talking specifically about the people in the disputed regions, not the whole of Ukraine.
It's hard to have discourse with someone with infinite knowledge of a subject.
Like 80% people of Germanic & Frankish countries are descended from Charles the Great. How do they have large distinctions & Ukrainians don't?
Same language doesn't make you same people.
You have a much better memory than I on this. Zero recollection.
It's hard to have discourse with someone with infinite knowledge of a subject.
Good to hear. That's different than so many hear saying Putin was provoked/justified by NATO into his invasion. At least we agree on this. Thanks.
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Again let me ask, where in Ukraine are the Russians winning? It certainly isn’t in Kupiansk, Russian Telegram has already conceded the city after many resources were thrown at taking it. This isn’t coming from western sources, it’s on their own Telegram.
For every 500 troops the Russians sent in, Ukraine responded with dozens/hundreds of drones that turned it into a meat-grinder.
These are all just useless straw man arguments, statements and questions, misinterpretations and misrepresentations, against what was actually presented to you. For instance, Zelly speaking Russian to Russian speaking Ukrainians is not what makes them Russian, nor was it why he called them the same people. He did so because they simply are: it was useful then since he was trying to be elected on a platform of reconciliation, one of keeping Ukraine together by recognizing the Russians within it and their interests a part of it.
A platform which changed(?) once the nationalists and oligarchs said so.
But all that is neither here nor there to the more fundamental point that you don't know who these people are. Furthermore, you don't care to know. You (general) want your spoon fed narrative that's all just innocent ole plucky Ukraine seeking freedom and democracy, getting bullied by an evil, irrational tyrant with his nation of orcs. No, This is who these people are, this family timestamped here. They and other like them should've been allowed to live their lives in peace. They aren't orcs, just people whose lives have been ruined by outside interests... ALl around.
Posts like this are what actually got the OG thread shutdown, so I'm treading carefully as that was inadvertently my fault, but I don't think that mod is around anymore and this isn't what really did it I don't think, which was likely the rest of my post which dealt more directly with ukrainian anti-semitism and national socialsim.
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If you cant understand the difference between winning and not losing, that explains why you missed my point.
War is exactly where I told you it would be three years ago.
Thanks for playing. $$$
Thanks for playing. $$$
This. Ukraine cant win and to avoid world war 3 Russia wont push in. So here we are.
The only thing that surprised me was trump not immediately cutting off Ukraine. That's the only reason this is still lingering.
Happy Christmas!
But yean, I know you disagree. Here's another clip of who these people actually are for your (pl.) edification. This guy is a dime a dozen...
Glaringly obvious reality.
And, no, it didn't take a genius who thinks he knows everything to see this coming. And no, it is not propaganda parrotting, either. I posted of then Obama administration Anthony Blinken saying the exact same thing.
And speaking of propagandization: you people are throwing some massive stones from your glass houses. Do you not get it? Everything you see is propaganda, to get you to support this war. This chit is freakin' ridiculous too: here's what my daily visit to CNN produced on freakin' christmas day. Get ready to send your grandma to war against PUtin! Baba Polska, yes we can!
Give me a break. What's wrong with you people? Get a grip, already. They're all complicit, not just Putin. It's no more about freedom and democracy, the liberal world order, than it is about whatever Russian propaganda says it is. War is a racket.
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Russian official threatens Zelenskyy as Moscow claims Kyiv attacked Putin residence
A top Russian official on Monday issued personal threats against Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
abcnews.go.com
Let me guess, you believe Ukraine attacked Putin's palace?Russian official threatens Zelenskyy as Moscow claims Kyiv attacked Putin residence
A top Russian official on Monday issued personal threats against Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
This is what some are missing. Many of us saw this coming after the first 6 months of the war. It reminds me of the commercial where the fisherman has the dollar on a hook and is dangling it in front of the woman just out of reach.
I am for this. Go after each other's residence and maybe they will wake up and decide to end this war. It would save the American public tax dollars going to corrupt officials.Russian official threatens Zelenskyy as Moscow claims Kyiv attacked Putin residence
A top Russian official on Monday issued personal threats against Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
Thus far, this has been a war of attrition and one that has seemed intended to just go on and on, which the war profiteers love. Meanwhile, deaths and destruction continue
Europe and US have refuted the claim that Ukraine targeted, but I hear you. Those leading in this war probably need to feel the immediacy of the war. Putin, Zelensky, and others. The generals on the hill who order the deaths.
“European leaders are expected to meet in France on Tuesday for further talks on a US-backed ceasefire plan, which Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said was ‘90 percent ready’. Territorial issues over ceding land conquered in war or not remain at the heart of the matter.”
It's not a view. It's data. You don't like their data, provide your own.