Think Williams and Moreno stick in the starting lineup?

[jedwar]

Man, that IS infuriating. Dude likes subs more than Danny Devito in those Jersey Mike's commercials.

Yeah the subbing is weird. The other thing is, for whatever we think of BG, the coach can't just throw him to the curb so quick. There is a world where BG can pull it together and maybe just needs to be benched a few times. Pope is probably trying to get him there.

The subbing patterns and non-sensical subbing is my biggest gripe. Analytics is fine but you cannot let it dictate everything. You have to have an inate feel for the game and the flow. I'm worried about that. Sometimes you have to trust your eyeballs and gut.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

If you look at the box score Moreno played 23 minutes and Garrison 20 so it really wasn't that big of a change.

Ding ding ding. It's funny how some don't notice that. He needs to figure out who his best players are and play them 28+ mins/game. 3 or 4 guys should be averaging that many minutes.

 

[Cats192]

If you look at the box score Moreno played 23 minutes and Garrison 20 so it really wasn't that big of a change.

I mean, it isn't and it is.

I remember Cal's last year, everyone was VERY clear that starting matters. BG lost his starting spot for that game at least. Pope was sending a message.

I assume that every coach wants guys to get going. And if guys are going to figure it out--they're more likely to figure it out vs Eastern Illinois than being thrown back in the fire vs Gonzaga.

Garrison played a weird game. He had 11 rebounds, which is the best rebounding game I can remember, maybe the best one he's had. But he had SEVERAL bone headed shots. Dude puts his head down in the post and it's over.

 

[Cats192]

The subbing patterns and non-sensical subbing is my biggest gripe. Analytics is fine but you cannot let it dictate everything. You have to have an inate feel for the game and the flow. I'm worried about that. Sometimes you have to trust your eyeballs and gut.

Weirdly, you would think the analytics show the problems with the subbing patterns. It's not like we're doing it and lighting the world on fire vs real competition.

 

[wkycatfan7]

I still say Owen and MoD can't be on the floor together, neither can shoot from outside. Oweh needs a shooter on the floor with him, so he can drive better.

 

[Cats192]

Ding ding ding. It's funny how some don't notice that. He needs to figure out who his best players are and play them 28+ mins/game. 3 or 4 guys should be averaging that many minutes.

I understand giving Garrison and other guys minutes during cupcake SZN to hopefully figure things out and improve.

I think the rotation needs to be shortened vs Gonzaga and UNC and St. Johns. But I'm fine giving guys a little more run in these games.

If we get to conference play and he's giving BG 20 minutes a game to play like he has...yeah, it deserves criticism. I think making a starter come off the bench is pretty significant/symbolic.

 

[Goingfor9]

Offense ran smoother. Better spacing. Otega seemed more effective with it. We aren’t as physical but faster. Passing was better.

No. Moreno yes Williams a hard no.

 

[Yardeth]

I’m not sure why Pope recruited Mo because he doesn’t fit Pope’s style of play.

I thought the same thing but I think it’s more about practice than the games, he is using Mo to make the team tougher and we know that Mo can defend and guard, his offense is suspect for sure.

 

[cornbreadnmilk]

I thought the same thing but I think it’s more about practice than the games, he is using Mo to make the team tougher and we know that Mo can defend and guard, his offense is suspect for sure.

I think he would have been a perfect fit last season with all the shooters we had. Now the only guy we can depend on for outside shots is CC so him Oweh,Garrison/Moreno together is a nightmare.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

No. Moreno yes Williams a hard no.

Not sure why William would be a hard no he had a great game

 

[Yardeth]

I'm not going to claim this would be UK's best lineup - I just can't say that confidently - but I'm curious how this starting lineup would fare:

C - Jelavic

PF – Williams

SF – Oweh

2G – Chandler

PG – Aberdeen

I like that lineup with Jelavic’s shooting and passing ability. Only issue I see about Jelly is that he fouls a lot and is still catching up to the speed of the game. I think he could be a similar player as Z was being a threat from 3.

 

[TFCat11]

Would anyone like to let Pope know, one of the main reasons for the early season struggles against legit competition (besides the locker room issues), is because…

1. He has too many non-shooters playing significant minutes together, and…

2. With his crystal meth substitution patterns, he’s not allowing the best lineup(s) to gel and get into a rhythm together.

UK is the only top team that is doing those 2 things simultaneously together this season, and the results reflect it!

 

[Cats192]

Would anyone like to let Pope know, one of the main reasons for the early season struggles against legit competition (besides the locker room issues), is because…

1. He has too many non-shooters playing significant minutes together, and…

2. With his crystal meth substitution patterns, he’s not allowing the best lineup(s) to gel and get into a rhythm together.

UK is the only top team that is doing those 2 things simultaneously together this season, and the results reflect it!

100%

People keep saying he 's relying on the analytics to a fault. But I just can't even imagine the analytics support these lineups/substitution patterns.

To me, it would seem like analytics support lineups that can shoot and create space. We haven't had that. The best I've seen us play are those stretches where Kam is at the 4.

 

[JonathanW2]

I’m all for that lineup personally. Dioubate is our best per minute rebounder and one of our best on-ball defenders though. It’s a good problem to have two great options at the four but I like the Kam lineup better

Actually, Moreno is still (by far) our best rebounder. Dioubate is tied in a distant second with (shockingly) Garrison after a great rebounding game this week.

 

[true-blue1]

Aforementioned quotes and articles, which I’d link but I don’t think you’re looking for the truth, just an argument.

I don't like to argue at all. I just think if Oats really liked his game he would have started him instead of bringing him off the bench. Mo wasn't happy with his playing time and decided to transfer.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

I understand giving Garrison and other guys minutes during cupcake SZN to hopefully figure things out and improve.

I think the rotation needs to be shortened vs Gonzaga and UNC and St. Johns. But I'm fine giving guys a little more run in these games.

If we get to conference play and he's giving BG 20 minutes a game to play like he has...yeah, it deserves criticism. I think making a starter come off the bench is pretty significant/symbolic.

That's a fair point. I feel like, at this point, BG is what he is. I get continually trying, but man...give me some more Kam and Jelavich in these250-350 Kenpom specials. But I get what you're saying. Part of me thinks these teams are SO bad that any lineup would be "successful". I didn't realize (counting Tennessee Tech) just how bad the 5 teams are until I looked them up today.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

I mean, it isn't and it is.

I remember Cal's last year, everyone was VERY clear that starting matters. BG lost his starting spot for that game at least. Pope was sending a message.

I assume that every coach wants guys to get going. And if guys are going to figure it out--they're more likely to figure it out vs Eastern Illinois than being thrown back in the fire vs Gonzaga.

Garrison played a weird game. He had 11 rebounds, which is the best rebounding game I can remember, maybe the best one he's had. But he had SEVERAL bone headed shots. Dude puts his head down in the post and it's over.

That team, the glaring issue was they seemed to be down 6-10 points by the first TV timeout. It was obviously due to playing the entire wrong combination of players. It wasn't just who he started, but more so who he just refused to play together (Reed, Rob, Antonio).

This is different. Moreno has outperformed Garrison (especially in games that don't involve the 200-350 Kenpom teams) and should be playing more minutes than Garrison. Maybe it changes, maybe it doesn't (I tend to think it won't). I mean, Pope played AW and BG essentially the same amount of minutes last season. It something I think everyone just glossed over because they were giddy over the change and the (sort of) overperformance of the team. Pope's optimal minutes on the court thing is obviously based on analytics. Problem is, using last years team, I'd sure rather have AW at 75% of his max performance than 100% of BG. Kirk Gibson was better on one leg than whoever else Lasorda could've trotted to the plate.

 

[wildcat111]

Offense ran smoother. Better spacing. Otega seemed more effective with it. We aren’t as physical but faster. Passing was better.

Looking decent against a JV team don't get you much.

 

[Aike]

Mo should try some small ball fives

Our space is better when a shooter like Kam on the floor

Absolutely. Mo D is sort of a poor man’s Draymond.

 

[Cats192]

Actually, Moreno is still (by far) our best rebounder. Dioubate is tied in a distant second with (shockingly) Garrison after a great rebounding game this week.

I was happy to see Garrison act like he wanted to/cared about rebounding. I hope that trend continues.