This team is done

[TheDude1]

I know some folks won't like this, and I know that some of the overly positive people will say that this team still has a chance to put it together, and K isn't here yet, and so on and so forth.

But this team is done. No chemistry, no understanding of roles, lots of underwhelming play, a bit of selfishness, and the coaching has been suspect all year, K or Capel. Sure, they can pull it together once in a while, but everyone has seen this sort of thing... A bunch of tough games will result in some losses, which will further erode confidence and trust in each other. When it matters, it will all fall apart again.

Frustrating to see this season go like this. At this point, is there anyone who thinks that this team realistically has a shot at a Final Four? I sure don't.

 

[Dahntay#1]

We are definitely done. Think about it. How many Duke teams that weren't a #1 or #2 seed have done anything in the tourney? Time to just root for the team and hope we get as many players back as possible next year. The good thing is that this has been such a disaster that I think K will learn from this and not recruit as many 1 and done types down the road.

 

[Laettner]

Final Four is in no way achievable. If we make the dance seeding is 6-10. No chance we can beat four quality teams.

A loss at Wake this weekend would not surprise me & ND loss is extremely likely. UNC is going to hang 100+ b/c our defense is flat out atrocious.

 

[LH24ND]

With the coming schedule I doubt we get a bid. Such a mess of a season for so many reasons. Murphy's Law year.

 

[Showenuff]

Dumb post. It truly has been frustrating, but the season isn't over. That's silly.

 

[duhondukie]

I am certainly not going to give up on them but it looks bleak at best. I am over Capel, the guy can recruit but his ability to coach the kids mentally is not there and that is something K is the greatest at. I get Kennard struggles to defend but the majority of our team does. Frank makes one mistake on the lob and is pulled yet Tatum continues to be a black hole and make mistake after mistake but he continues to play. I guess that is why they make the big bucks and I am teaching high school and coaching high school basketball.

 

[topps coach]

Dumb post. It truly has been frustrating, but the season isn't over. That's silly.

Agree 100% this season is not over we will be a force by tourney time and we will continue to recruit top notch talent.I do not think that I ever have seen a season like this where external factors have screwed up things to this degree.

 

[Baller224]

I haven't lost all hope, but man that loss nearly broke the camel's back in terms of hope for this team. Capel is arguably the best recruiter in the game right now, but his in game coaching ability leaves a lot to be desired. He certainly hasn't been handed the best deck of cards but there is no excuse for that last night. This team does not have one quality win... frustrating.

 

[K-oach Q]

It's not over yet, but we need Coach K sooner not later...he's our only chance with this thing...it may be to late but there is still a chance...

Also Frank needs the ball and needs to be the PG....

 

[BlueDevils725]

This team hates each other. You can tell Allen is just not interested half the time, but how could he be? Tatums awful *** is just showboating for the NBA (and doing a terrible job of it), Kennards role has changed. He was a candidate for POTY and now he doesn't even get to touch the ball. I just don't see us coming back, horrible epic fail season. One and done isn't easy to mesh, and this season has absolutely shown that.

 

[dbav]

Wow, just wow.

 

[denverexpat]

Syracuse was 12-7 at this point so not time to throw the towel in yet. Ironically they were led by a PG that Duke had discarded as not being good enough to start or play major minutes....oh well.
I think this team suffers from lack of definition of roles and at times it looks like minutes are distributed to placate players and it disrupts the team. As i've harped on before, OAD recruiting comes with risk as well as reward. You might get a year like 2015 where the result it what was desired but rare- or you may get this year. Balancing the desire for OAD's to get playing time while weaving them into returning team members isnt a science and this year shows it can go really wrong ( so far). 2015 was the anomaly for Duke, our other OAD teams have done nothing - not even a final four...usually a Sweet 16 exit or worse. Personally i'd like to see more players that grow with the program, buy into the mentality and history of our Program and stay 3 yrs minimum. I'll take the deeper more consistent run in the NCCAT over this type of frustrating and disappointing spectacle that OAD madness seems to produce. Out

 

[topps coach]

Wow, just wow.

Our fanbase is getting disgusting with the attacks on our team.Sure this season has been frustrating but this still our team show a little loyalty

 

[duhondukie]

Our fanbase is getting disgusting with the attacks on our team.Sure this season has been frustrating but this still our team show a little loyalty

I agree that some of the stuff is over the top, probably myself included but isn't a message board a place where people can post there thoughts on what is happening, good or bad?

 

[HuffyJB]

I echo the sentiment that K's return is of the utmost importance.

This team has just had so many obstacles. Can anyone remember a team in NCAA history that has suffered so many injuries and interruptions, including all the way up to the head coach? Think about it in this context: you want a group to build a quality home with all the amenities, and you give them full access to all the components needed (architect, crew, supplies, etc.) for 6 months. Then you have another group with the same goal, but you give them 5 weeks. It would be crazy to have the same expectations for both groups.

 

[Therightblue88]

It certainly doesn't look good, but if K comes back, he'll get them to the tournament.

I agree, lack of defined roles is the biggest issue. Last years team played so cohesively because they all had a role. They just didn't have enough front court depth to make a run.

 

[Kobe #1]

Dumb post. It truly has been frustrating, but the season isn't over. That's silly.

How frustrating has it been, wow I can't even describe how I feel about this team. Buttttttt......with the talent and the ability to score, all it takes is a hot run and good shooting and this team could still win 6 in a row, will it happen, probably not based on the mounting history game by game.....but it is possible.

Now, I will also add there have been other frustrating years, but it is because we just didn't have the talent or personnel to have there's a light at the end of the tunnel mindset, unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, this team does have the talent and ability, its just the million dollar question, can they learn to play together and actually improve on the growing list of problems.

I am not giving up on this team until they lose or don't lose the last game, I see the talent, just not the results.

 

[pisgah101]

They say we have too much talent to be this bad and I agree but we have to use that talent! Ride the upperclassmen and we have a shot. The team that lost to Kansas was easily a sweet 16 team and the current one will struggle to make the tourney without somthing drastic

 

[TheDude1]

Dumb post. It truly has been frustrating, but the season isn't over. That's silly.

Show, let me ask... Realistically, have you seen many Duke teams, if ANY Duke teams, that have looked as listless as this one, as unsure of who they are and what their roles are, and who have lost as many games as this one has at this point, and then seen them turn it around and gone to the Final Four? I get injuries, I get that K is out... But Coach cannot fix everything, and he cannot get every player to be the player they could be, and that we need, in a month time. Josh never really got there... Austin never really got there...

Is it possible? Sure. I'd say this team has maybe what... Ten, twenty percent chance of it all clicking? It is possible someone steps up to lead on the floor. It is possible Jayson is able to consistently turn it on at the right time and in the right way. It is possible (although super unlikely) that our guards develop the foot speed/athleticism to keep opposing guards out of the lane. It is possible that K leads them back although K has frequently spoken about how it is not good for the team when he has to be the emotional leader, that there need to be players who play that role... But at this point, chances are, I think, quite good that this team wins some more (including one vs Carolina, as the emotion of that game can do a lot of good) but also loses another three, four, or five... And then goes out in the first or second game of the ACCs, and then out in the first weekend, like several of our recent teams which had a lot of talent, but never pulled it together.

I hope I am wrong. I've often been a "there is still time, a team can change" type... But over the years, I've found that to usually turn out to be unrealistic optimism. The only one I can think of is the defensive change in the 2015 team, and that team had a lot of strengths to start with, and only lost what... Four games all year?

So, as I asked... Which Duke teams have you really seen struggle in ways similarly to this one, and yet changed it up by the end?

 

[K Coach]

I just wish Kennard would stop playing with his hair on the defensive end. If he quit doing that, he may not get beat all the time.

 

[Liftee]

At 9:15 last night, I felt like the season was over. This morning, I feel like any team with this much talent, the best coaching staff, and a lot of players with pride who really care, anything can happen.

Grayson finds his shot. Giles becomes the player we expected him to be. Tatum watches some film and realizes he needs to give up the ball sometimes. The entire team buys into defense all the time not just half the time. If Duke can do it for a half occasionally, they can find the consistency to do it all the time.

If the game had been cancelled with 2 minutes left in the first half last night, we wouldn't be so disappointed.

 

[duhondukie]

At 9:15 last night, I felt like the season was over. This morning, I feel like any team with this much talent, the best coaching staff, and a lot of players with pride who really care, anything can happen.

Grayson finds his shot. Giles becomes the player we expected him to be. Tatum watches some film and realizes he needs to give up the ball sometimes. The entire team buys into defense all the time not just half the time. If Duke can do it for a half occasionally, they can find the consistency to do it all the time.

If the game had been cancelled with 2 minutes left in the first half last night, we wouldn't be so disappointed.

The problem is there will be zero games cancelled with 2 minutes left in the first half.

 

[TheDude1]

At 9:15 last night, I felt like the season was over. This morning, I feel like any team with this much talent, the best coaching staff, and a lot of players with pride who really care, anything can happen.

Grayson finds his shot. Giles becomes the player we expected him to be. Tatum watches some film and realizes he needs to give up the ball sometimes. The entire team buys into defense all the time not just half the time. If Duke can do it for a half occasionally, they can find the consistency to do it all the time.

If the game had been cancelled with 2 minutes left in the first half last night, we wouldn't be so disappointed.

But look at what you are saying. You think it is really that possible that three guys basically become something they haven't been, that an entire TEAM can find something they haven't? Consistently? Athletes generally take a long time to find consistency, sometimes years, and some never do. And saying that "Well, if we had just played 18 minutes of a game, instead of 40, we would be fine" is a bit much, no?

 

[nets on nets on nets]

I honestly believe there is something to Grayson's arms/shoulders being too big to have a solid stroke. As a freshman and even last year, I was confident everytime Grayson shot. Now Grayson is JACKED, and he seems to hit the back rim every shot. Last night I never thought any of his open 3's were going.
I understand I'm reaching on this, but does anyone else see this???

 

[TheDude1]

I honestly believe there is something to Grayson's arms/shoulders being too big to have a solid stroke. As a freshman and even last year, I was confident everytime Grayson shot. Now Grayson is JACKED, and he seems to hit the back rim every shot. Last night I never thought any of his open 3's were going.
I understand I'm reaching on this, but does anyone else see this???

There are times when a change in musculature/training/physique ends up hurting a player. It is possible that this is the case with Grayson, although I have no idea if it IS or not.

 

[dukiejay]

Syracuse was 12-7 at this point so not time to throw the towel in yet. Ironically they were led by a PG that Duke had discarded as not being good enough to start or play major minutes....oh well.

The Gbinije comparison is a little out there. For one, you're comparing a true freshman to a 5th year senior. People forget that it took until Gbinije's third year at Syracuse (his fourth in college) before he became much of a rotation player there. His last year there he was great, though. It goes back to the old adage of each player running their own race or marathon.

Are we done? I don't know. It's harder to argue all is good, that's for sure. If there's one area where I'm cautiously optimistic it's that we do have a lot of talent....whether we can manage to mesh it all together or not is another story. Right now, I'd certainly lean it's less likely than more likely. I'll admit that it gets harder and harder with each passing game to find hope. We're struggling to be average right now. At the beginning of the season I envisioned us to struggle at times being really, really good....but certainly not average.

One last thing....we're only invested in this as fans. Take how you're feeling this morning, how you felt last night, and how you felt after the two-game road trip to Tallahassee and Louisville....now multiply that by infinity. That's how our coaching staff feels, it's how our players feel. We just go to work, spend time with our family and go to our kids/grand kids/nieces and nephews events. We can't fix Duke's problems, but the one's who can and want to will work at it every day until the season ends, whenever that will be.

 

[dukiejay]

The problem is there will be zero games cancelled with 2 minutes left in the first half.

This was funny. I think all of us need a little levity in tough times.

 

[dukiejay]

But look at what you are saying. You think it is really that possible that three guys basically become something they haven't been, that an entire TEAM can find something they haven't? Consistently? Athletes generally take a long time to find consistency, sometimes years, and some never do. And saying that "Well, if we had just played 18 minutes of a game, instead of 40, we would be fine" is a bit much, no?

I think he was speaking in generalities when referring to the end of the half. I don't think he meant ending the game there, but that we clearly outplayed them for 18 minutes, built a double-digit lead, and saw all the momentum and air lift out of the building. To be honest, if State doesn't have that end of half run it probably is a different game. But as the old adage goes....that's why the game is 40 minutes.

The rest of your post I pretty much agree with. Eventually a team is kind of who they are....and unfortunately, right now we're not very good and really haven't been for any kind of consistent stretch. When it's the end of January it's hard to make a complete overhaul. Not impossible, but certainly less likely. Teams have done it before....but it's not the norm, so I don't fault people for saying it's unlikely to happen, because that's certainly more likely.

 

[jnastasi]

Definitely not done but I'm seriously starting to feel like this team is about to historically underachieve. Zero chemistry, zero heart, zero point guard play.

 

[Duke It Out]

We are definitely done. Think about it. How many Duke teams that weren't a #1 or #2 seed have done anything in the tourney? Time to just root for the team and hope we get as many players back as possible next year. The good thing is that this has been such a disaster that I think K will learn from this and not recruit as many 1 and done types down the road.

There is nothing good about this. K isn't going to be around much longer and this is one hell of an opportunity Duke is squandering at the moment. While they haven't meshed, this amount of talent on one team is rare and we could very easily have nothing to show for it.

.

 

[BlueDevilWildcat]

I think for this team to be even S16 we need:

• Coach K back ASAP. Capel is playing out of position.
• A healthy Amile.
• Short leash on Tatum. Treat him like a 3* and watch him learn.
• Run offense through Luke. By far our best facilitator.
• Bolden starts, despite mistakes. Treat him like Tatum is treated now.
• Change our defensive schemes to reflect what this team can do well.
• Fix Grayson's shot. We need his 3P% > 40%.
• Rely on veterans as core of team.

The reality is our Frosh have all seriously underwhelmed and the guys who returned have been mostly flat to down vs last year. There's only so much the coaching staff can do in that situation, unfortunately.

 

[Duke It Out]

I was BANKING on abusing UNC at CIS on February 9th and at least beating them at their place. I was banking on getting to a final four with relative ease and for good reason. While CBB is more talented this year, its top heavy. Get outside the top 5-6 teams and there is a big drop off in talent. Of those 5-6 teams, Duke has the most talent. It's really not even close. Duke was supposed to get a one seed, and would've only had to play one game to get to the final four, which would've been the regional final. This team Duke was supposed to use the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament as dress rehearsal.

Kenpom projected a undefeated season just to give everyone an indication of how good Duke was "supposed" to be. I think it was only the 2nd time a team has been projected preseason to win every game.

I went to C2C this season and the optimism for this team was through the roof. K spoke after the 20 minute scrimmage that night and even he acknowledged how special of a season this could be. He never does that. You could feel it that night in the air. Duke had a juggernaut, and everyone knew it. The fans, the coaches, and the players. Duke is always good, we know that, but this season had a chance to be historic even by Duke's standards.


That night K also said it would be a long season and we would have to stick together. Here is to hoping the players haven't forgotten that like the fans have.

 

[dukiejay]

I think for this team to be even S16 we need:

• Coach K back ASAP. Capel is playing out of position.
• A healthy Amile.
• Short leash on Tatum. Treat him like a 3* and watch him learn.
• Run offense through Luke. By far our best facilitator.
• Bolden starts, despite mistakes. Treat him like Tatum is treated now.
• Change our defensive schemes to reflect what this team can do well.
• Fix Grayson's shot. We need his 3P% > 40%.
• Rely on veterans as core of team.

The reality is our Frosh have all seriously underwhelmed and the guys who returned have been mostly flat to down vs last year. There's only so much the coaching staff can do in that situation, unfortunately.

I can get behind most of this, some of it more than others.

Obviously, the big one is getting Coach K back. I still don't think Capel has done a horrible job, but this team and these players came to Duke, more than partly, to play for Coach K.

Check on Amile. That said, we might not see him fully healthy ever again playing for Duke.

I would say shorter leash on Tatum. I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm still of the belief he was pretty good last night....save missing point-blank shots that just are unacceptable.

I would say more offense run through Luke.

If Bolden becomes more consistent then I can get on board here. He still only managed three rebounds in 14 minutes last night....and two were on the same possession. Also, he needs to always play with passion.

It's hard to say what this team's best defensive schemes would be. People aren't going to want to hear it, but our ceiling is more likely to be reached by us becoming a tighter, more cohesive unit.

Rather than fixing Grayson's shot, I'd like to see him become comfortable again. I think he'll play better (and shoot better) if that happens. He's playing with a lot of frustration right now.

Agree on the veterans. There's a disconnect right now, or without knowing full well what's going on, it certainly appears as if there's one.

I would add for them to have fun....but I think that's easier said than done. They know they're not playing well right now and I think naturally that makes guys press even more.

Here's the reality....the ACCT starts six weeks from today. We're not out of time, but to calmly say we're not running out of time is untrue.

 

[TRU CANE]

Done? Nah not even close to being time to start talking like that. Not even NC State is done. Didn't Kentucky make it to the final four with like 11 losses?

 

[Showenuff]

Yes. I am aware how things are going Dude1. I tend to follow Duke basketball fairly close. Everybody is ready to sing praises and ride the wagon when its a smooth road, but hit some bumps and they curse the wagon. We have endured almost clownish incidents that drastically affected this teams chemistry. I don't think I've witnessed a D1 team since I've been following college basketball sustain this many injuries to key players. I'm as frustrated as anyone here. I also realize that anything can happen in college basketball. I can't get behind people calling Tatum garbage. He's a damn freshmen. I can't get behind people calling for Capels head when he's been handed a broken thing and expected to just win, and I DAMN SURE can't get behind a stupid F8CK!#@ thread at our home board in January called This team is done.

 

[Showenuff]

This team pulls together and beats UNC this year and all you doom and gloomers will be on here wacking your pee pees.

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

I just don't see how anyone can think this will get turned around....we have played one good half the last month

I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it..
We will make the tournament but will exit quickly IMO

 

[dukephysics]

I don't believe this team is done. People like to overreact. After Miami, some were saying we've turned the corner. Don't forget, the 2015 team lost to Miami and NC State in consecutive games.

On Grayson's shot, yes a change in musculature can alter a shot. The Duke guys have been adding muscle to guys for a number of years. They know how to add muscle while a guy continues to work on his shot so that it doesn't hurt him. Think golfers who get stronger - they don't all of a sudden have a hard time hitting the ball because they continue playing golf during the time they are adding muscle. I think the confidence thing is a much bigger deal than the muscle thing.

I was pretty pissed about the Tatum play at the end of the game last night. After an evening of calming down, I can get over that mistake. It's more than 1 play and a couple of missed layups with him though. It's also the bad 3 pointer he took with a minute or so left. It's also how often he clearly isn't rotating correctly on defense (look at how many times a guy shoots a layup with Tatum right behind him). He also gets the benefit of never having to guard good players - guys like Amile and Matt always take those assignments. It's also been the same stuff all year with him.
Last night on one possession he caught the ball in the corner in front of our bench and noticed he had a PG guarding him (mismatch). He called for a screen from Bolden - great move. Bolden set the screen and rolled to the basket and was WIDE OPEN. But Tatum had apparently already decided that since HE got the mismatch HE was taking the ball. So he dribbled trying to get by the double team, nearly lost the ball, then kicked it out. Blown opportunity.
We need him to be better. Right now it has nothing to do with talent - it is entirely decision making. If he takes good shots and they don't fall (think Grayson), we have to all live with that. That's just not what he's giving right now.

 

[pisgah101]

Some of the blindness is alarming

 

[Mpm277]

It's just frustrating because of what this team was supposed to have been and because, honestly, as Duke fans we are pretty spoiled.

....Especially if you just became a fan in 2010 or 2015.