This team is done

Lavar5150

Senior
Oct 17, 2001
592
641
63
Not so fast. The problem is we have enabled players who don't deserve it. Starters should be Jackson, Luke, ,Matt, Grayson and Amile going forward.

Seeing Tatum look off Grayson on the last play was the tipping point for me. The captains have been undermined and K is the one to blame and fix it.

Would also like to see a refresh on the offense. Very stale and a creative zone would be nice. I'm all for systems but you have to adapt to player ability too.
 
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hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
I have no problems as a an all-out Blue Devil follower of folks venting their frustrations here. We're beyond injuries as excuses in my opinion at this point. I truly think Tatum was told he would be centerpiece of this team and there's no looking back for him....That type of commitment to a player can either bring a team together or destroy a group...You dont bench your leading scorer and kid who improved his game 100% off season for the latest OAD phenom who is using a collegiate platform to impress scouts....

OFC
 

Dahntay#1

Junior
Nov 27, 2007
1,932
369
0
Not so fast. The problem is we have enabled players who don't deserve it. Starters should be Jackson, Luke, ,Matt, Grayson and Amile going forward.

Seeing Tatum look off Grayson on the last play was the tipping point for me. The captains have been undermined and K is the one to blame and fix it.

Would also like to see a refresh on the offense. Very stale and a creative zone would be nice. I'm all for systems but you have to adapt to player ability too.
Totally agree. I feel that K has softened over the last 5 years or so. He allows things that he wouldn't have allowed back in the day. IMO he has softened to try and land more 1 and done types. If you get a chance to listen to Jay Williams talk about how K talked to him when he was a player, I have a hard time seeing K talking to Tatum or other freshmen these days that same way. Is it because he knows they won't be around very long? Who knows. But things have changed.
 

dukephysics

All-Conference
Jul 27, 2016
1,109
1,365
0
I truly think Tatum was told he would be centerpiece of this team and there's no looking back for him.
By who? I disagree with you.
We had an All American returning. A fifth year senior. Another guy who had started for 2 years. And at the time of his commitment, we were still recruiting Giles (and according to ESPN, Dennis Smith). I don't believe ANYONE on the team said he would be the centerpiece. I believe they probably told him something similar to what we are probably telling Knox - look we have a long history of successful players at your position.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ruit-espn-class-2016-commits-duke-blue-devils
 

dbav

All-American
Mar 14, 2014
8,042
5,876
0
It's just frustrating because of what this team was supposed to have been and because, honestly, as Duke fans we are pretty spoiled.

....Especially if you just became a fan in 2010 or 2015.

This is why I go into every season ready to simply enjoy some basketball and to represent my school the right way.
 

Thinkpositivepc2

Freshman
Jan 23, 2017
120
66
0
I don't necessarily believe we are "Done" but they sure are playing like it. Obviously Capel has to be our coach until K gets back, that is a big problem and a main problem of ours right now. Also, the sooner we all realize Tatum is not helping this TEAM, but only himself.. then we can all move forward.

Next Game:
Luke - PG
Grayson- SG
Matt Jones- SF
Amile- PF
Bolden-C

Bench- Frank, Tatum, Giles in that order.

Older is better for us right now. I believe we need to have more upperclassman than freshman (especially with this group) on the floor at any given time. Other lineups ive thought about:
Jackson/Luke/Grayson/Giles/Amile
Luke/Grayson/Tatum/Amile/Giles
Grayson/Jackson/Jones/Tatum/Amile.

Luke and Grayson HAVE to be on the floor majority of the night. Between the two they average 35 PPG, 6.5 APG, 10 RPG, 3.8 TO. It was lucky to bench them against Miami and stupid to sit them out a lot against state.

Tatum statistically has the highest turnover percentage and the lowest 3pt percentage on the team.

Another odd statistic is Giles and Vrank are essentially playing like the same person in regards to minutes so far this year and stats.
 

hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
By who? I disagree with you.
We had an All American returning. A fifth year senior. Another guy who had started for 2 years. And at the time of his commitment, we were still recruiting Giles (and according to ESPN, Dennis Smith). I don't believe ANYONE on the team said he would be the centerpiece. I believe they probably told him something similar to what we are probably telling Knox - look we have a long history of successful players at your position.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ruit-espn-class-2016-commits-duke-blue-devils

We agree to disagree. Tatum is the one player I truly feel is immune from discipline, and its only gotten worse in K's absence. You mention the returning players etc. Does it honestly APPEAR to ANYONE as if he's playing w/respect to the upper classmen..There's not a shred of Battier or Grant Hill in that type of deference to others on this team right now...

OFC
 

DukeDenver

All-American
Nov 21, 2010
8,249
8,451
0
So this is THAT thread?

 

tw3301

Heisman
Mar 31, 2009
50,564
13,104
0
I don't necessarily believe we are "Done" but they sure are playing like it. Obviously Capel has to be our coach until K gets back, that is a big problem and a main problem of ours right now. Also, the sooner we all realize Tatum is not helping this TEAM, but only himself.. then we can all move forward.

Next Game:
Luke - PG
Grayson- SG
Matt Jones- SF
Amile- PF
Bolden-C

Bench- Frank, Tatum, Giles in that order.w

Older is better for us right now. I believe we need to have more upperclassman than freshman (especially with this group) on the floor at any given time. Other lineups ive thought about:
Jackson/Luke/Grayson/Giles/Amile
Luke/Grayson/Tatum/Amile/Giles
Grayson/Jackson/Jones/Tatum/Amile.

Luke and Grayson HAVE to be on the floor majority of the night. Between the two they average 35 PPG, 6.5 APG, 10 RPG, 3.8 TO. It was lucky to bench them against Miami and stupid to sit them out a lot against state.

Tatum statistically has the highest turnover percentage and the lowest 3pt percentage on the team.

Another odd statistic is Giles and Vrank are essentially playing like the same person in regards to minutes so far this year and stats.
I don't disagree with this, however Luke and/or Grayson have GOT to get better on the defensive end. It's amazing how bad we are defensively when those 2 are on the court together.
 

duhondukie

All-Conference
Jan 12, 2010
1,901
1,038
0
I don't disagree with this, however Luke and/or Grayson have GOT to get better on the defensive end. It's amazing how bad we are defensively when those 2 are on the court together.
They were on the floor together all the time when we were playing well and everyone loved this team. What happened since then nobody will no. I think there are deeper issues in the locker room that we will not know about, nor should we.
 
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nets on nets on nets

All-American
Jun 4, 2015
4,162
5,515
0
I'm enjoying the concept that Luke and Grayson get first name treatment, but Tatum is "Tatum." o_O Maybe us fans should get benched too.
 
Oct 26, 2016
739
587
0
Totally agree. I feel that K has softened over the last 5 years or so. He allows things that he wouldn't have allowed back in the day. IMO he has softened to try and land more 1 and done types. If you get a chance to listen to Jay Williams talk about how K talked to him when he was a player, I have a hard time seeing K talking to Tatum or other freshmen these days that same way. Is it because he knows they won't be around very long? Who knows. But things have changed.
My wife and I have talked a lot about this recently. I can't imagine Cal or Izzo or Tony Bennett putting up with hero ball. I honestly don't think they ever would have pushed for someone like Tatum, his ball-stopping tendencies were very well known.

I agree that K seems to treat the OADs differently than the role players, for whatever reason. I also think that as you get older - and let's be honest, K at 70 isn't K at 50, no one would be - you just don't have the energy to manage a group that can't play as a team. Our 2015 team must have been a dream to coach because it didn't need much more than tweaks...
 

HeLooks2MuchLikeDave

All-Conference
Dec 1, 2010
2,458
2,151
0
Reading this thread I am definitely in the minority. I actually don't feel terrible about the loss last night. I felt a lot worse watching us get worked against FSU and Louisville (and thinking Amile was out for the season). Bolden and Giles are both playing much better than 2 weeks ago and should be playing better 2 weeks from now. Amile will get healthier and stronger and pretty soon we are going to get the greatest coach that ever lived back on the sidelines.

Last night DSJ had a game for the ages. It happens sometimes with future NBA talent. Just like sometimes those same players may shoot 1-9 from beyond the arc like Grayson did. I thought we played decent aside from allowing them to constantly get in the lane. But that is something I think we can turn around.

I am wayyyy more optimistic about this team than I was at halftime of the Miami game. Sure we have no shot to win the ACC regular season but who cares. We still have the potential to peak in March. And if we have faith in Coach K (and why wouldn't we?) then I think its a reasonable belief that he can find the right buttons to push.
 

denverexpat

All-Conference
Feb 1, 2006
4,456
3,172
93
My wife and I have talked a lot about this recently. I can't imagine Cal or Izzo or Tony Bennett putting up with hero ball. I honestly don't think they ever would have pushed for someone like Tatum, his ball-stopping tendencies were very well known.

I agree that K seems to treat the OADs differently than the role players, for whatever reason. I also think that as you get older - and let's be honest, K at 70 isn't K at 50, no one would be - you just don't have the energy to manage a group that can't play as a team. Our 2015 team must have been a dream to coach because it didn't need much more than tweaks...

Maybe some of his perceived softening is a result of his Olympic experience - managing a group of high level alpha performers into a team. Just a theory - maybe he thinks the same method is best for treating the OAD classes in collegiate ball.
 

hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
Maybe some of his perceived softening is a result of his Olympic experience - managing a group of high level alpha performers into a team. Just a theory - maybe he thinks the same method is best for treating the OAD classes in collegiate ball.

I think thats a valid argument because its certainly been successful for him internationally, and w/the '15 team.Hopefully he can still figure out the best recipe w/this group...

OFC
 

Showenuff

Heisman
Nov 21, 2006
21,624
14,224
0
Can we still wack our pee pees if we're pumping sunshine? I prefer to have the option either way.

Hey, if the season is over, log off. Why stay here , post and make those of us who enjoy being Duke fans miserable? If being optimistic is pumping sunshine I'm down with it. I was pumping sunshine after the Miami/state losses as well. This thread title sucks, if you can't understand that, i can't help ya buddy.
 

catdance

All-Conference
Feb 21, 2016
1,355
1,693
0
I honestly believe there is something to Grayson's arms/shoulders being too big to have a solid stroke. As a freshman and even last year, I was confident everytime Grayson shot. Now Grayson is JACKED, and he seems to hit the back rim every shot. Last night I never thought any of his open 3's were going.
I understand I'm reaching on this, but does anyone else see this???
Don't want to upset anyone, but Go Duke!
 
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dukiejay

Heisman
Mar 2, 2005
11,293
16,311
0
Totally agree. I feel that K has softened over the last 5 years or so. He allows things that he wouldn't have allowed back in the day. IMO he has softened to try and land more 1 and done types. If you get a chance to listen to Jay Williams talk about how K talked to him when he was a player, I have a hard time seeing K talking to Tatum or other freshmen these days that same way. Is it because he knows they won't be around very long? Who knows. But things have changed.

I don't really feel K has softened. He's changed, but to change isn't a bad thing. What I mean by that is sometimes you adapt to changing landscapes. College basketball, and basketball, in general, has changed. Players and kids have changed, too. I'm 39 years old. My parenting techniques are different than the one's my parents used on me. In the grand scheme of things, they're a lot alike and the aim is ultimately the same, but it's approached in a different manner.

My wife and I have talked a lot about this recently. I can't imagine Cal or Izzo or Tony Bennett putting up with hero ball. I honestly don't think they ever would have pushed for someone like Tatum, his ball-stopping tendencies were very well known.

Our 2015 team must have been a dream to coach because it didn't need much more than tweaks...

Cal recruited Jayson. Michigan St. and Virginia recruit more regionally....on top of that, from age 15 Jayson was considered a strong Duke lean. UK was probably the only of three who would 'waste' resources (or could afford to) to see if they could steer Jayson to their camp.

The 2015 season wasn't a 'dream' for K. It ended well and ultimately that's the goal, but it wasn't without its difficulties. It took quite a bit to reach the pinnacle.

Let's start with Quinn Cook....following 2014 many posters here wanted him gone, and even internally there were discussions about where Duke went from a disappointing season. It took him having multiple 'coming to Jesus' meetings with the staff to get back into their good graces. Thankfully, he stepped up and turned himself into one of the best leaders we've ever seen at Duke.

Then, fast forward to just prior to Christmas break. A roster with only 10 scholarship players, already a challenge, became less when Semi Ojeleye made the decision to transfer. Now we had nine scholarship players.

Conference plays starts. We get out of the gate at 2-0, then proceed to be blown out in Raleigh and get our tails kicked in by Miami at home. Suddenly we're 2-2, damaged goods and can't defend our own shadow. We recover against Louisville for a huge win that was defined as season-changing. But that was hardly the truth.

After a convincing win over Pittsburgh, we go to MSG to play St. John's as K went for win number 1,000. We play like garbage for about 30 minutes, turn things around just in time and leave with a big win....a win that some saw was again redefining. Everything is ok now.

Wait, no, it's not. Then, in South Bend vs. Notre Dame happened. Jerian Grant slices us up for something like 25 and 12, we make 50% of our free throws as a team (missing three front end's in the second half), Jahlil goes 2-for-7 at the line and there's a team dust up in the locker room that we'd come to learn of the following day.

The following day....Rasheed Sulaimon is dismissed from the team. For the fist time in 36 years at Duke, Coach K dismisses a player. The shock is heard nationally and the reaction on this very board was, well, devastating to say the least. Now Duke is down to eight scholarship players with a full two months to play.

But now it gets better, right? Nope. A day after Rasheed is dismissed, in fact, hours after he's dismissed, we come to learn about some potential sexual assault accusations being thrown out there by the Duke Chronicle. This causes local and national media to go after K saying he dismissed Rasheed because this was about to be leaked out and he did it to save face.

So, pardon me, if I don't feel that 2015 was a peach or even a 'dream' for Coach K. You're basing that off one thing and one thing only....we won the national championship. Yes, I understand that's the ultimate goal, but a lot of sh*t happened for that team to reach those heights.....and at every turn mentioned above, posters here were never saying this was a dream, and I can sure as hell assure you the staff wasn't, either.

Now, what that team did was band together. Two days after Rasheed was dismissed we went into Charlottesville to take on the second-ranked, 19-0 Cavaliers with the mantra that "eight was enough." Somehow, despite it looking doubtful going in, we played one of the more inspired games I've ever --- EVER!!! --- seen a Duke team play. We trailed most of the night and then Tyus went Stones on the bit and it was over.

I'm not suggesting this team is going to do anything like that. Hell, I'd predict something a lot different right now and it wouldn't make me sound very positive, but I gave the 2015 team very little chance that night in Virginia, and overall, my mood for the season wasn't rosy, either. I wasn't the only one.

Just remember....almost everything in that timeline above was happening right now, at this point in the season, in January. Bottom line....in January of 2015 it was the furthest thing from a 'dream' it could possibly be.
 

duhondukie

All-Conference
Jan 12, 2010
1,901
1,038
0
I don't really feel K has softened. He's changed, but to change isn't a bad thing. What I mean by that is sometimes you adapt to changing landscapes. College basketball, and basketball, in general, has changed. Players and kids have changed, too. I'm 39 years old. My parenting techniques are different than the one's my parents used on me. In the grand scheme of things, they're a lot alike and the aim is ultimately the same, but it's approached in a different manner.



Cal recruited Jayson. Michigan St. and Virginia recruit more regionally....on top of that, from age 15 Jayson was considered a strong Duke lean. UK was probably the only of three who would 'waste' resources (or could afford to) to see if they could steer Jayson to their camp.

The 2015 season wasn't a 'dream' for K. It ended well and ultimately that's the goal, but it wasn't without its difficulties. It took quite a bit to reach the pinnacle.

Let's start with Quinn Cook....following 2014 many posters here wanted him gone, and even internally there were discussions about where Duke went from a disappointing season. It took him having multiple 'coming to Jesus' meetings with the staff to get back into their good graces. Thankfully, he stepped up and turned himself into one of the best leaders we've ever seen at Duke.

Then, fast forward to just prior to Christmas break. A roster with only 10 scholarship players, already a challenge, became less when Semi Ojeleye made the decision to transfer. Now we had nine scholarship players.

Conference plays starts. We get out of the gate at 2-0, then proceed to be blown out in Raleigh and get our tails kicked in by Miami at home. Suddenly we're 2-2, damaged goods and can't defend our own shadow. We recover against Louisville for a huge win that was defined as season-changing. But that was hardly the truth.

After a convincing win over Pittsburgh, we go to MSG to play St. John's as K went for win number 1,000. We play like garbage for about 30 minutes, turn things around just in time and leave with a big win....a win that some saw was again redefining. Everything is ok now.

Wait, no, it's not. Then, in South Bend vs. Notre Dame happened. Jerian Grant slices us up for something like 25 and 12, we make 50% of our free throws as a team (missing three front end's in the second half), Jahlil goes 2-for-7 at the line and there's a team dust up in the locker room that we'd come to learn of the following day.

The following day....Rasheed Sulaimon is dismissed from the team. For the fist time in 36 years at Duke, Coach K dismisses a player. The shock is heard nationally and the reaction on this very board was, well, devastating to say the least. Now Duke is down to eight scholarship players with a full two months to play.

But now it gets better, right? Nope. A day after Rasheed is dismissed, in fact, hours after he's dismissed, we come to learn about some potential sexual assault accusations being thrown out there by the Duke Chronicle. This causes local and national media to go after K saying he dismissed Rasheed because this was about to be leaked out and he did it to save face.

So, pardon me, if I don't feel that 2015 was a peach or even a 'dream' for Coach K. You're basing that off one thing and one thing only....we won the national championship. Yes, I understand that's the ultimate goal, but a lot of sh*t happened for that team to reach those heights.....and at every turn mentioned above, posters here were never saying this was a dream, and I can sure as hell assure you the staff wasn't, either.

Now, what that team did was band together. Two days after Rasheed was dismissed we went into Charlottesville to take on the second-ranked, 19-0 Cavaliers with the mantra that "eight was enough." Somehow, despite it looking doubtful going in, we played one of the more inspired games I've ever --- EVER!!! --- seen a Duke team play. We trailed most of the night and then Tyus went Stones on the bit and it was over.

I'm not suggesting this team is going to do anything like that. Hell, I'd predict something a lot different right now and it wouldn't make me sound very positive, but I gave the 2015 team very little chance that night in Virginia, and overall, my mood for the season wasn't rosy, either. I wasn't the only one.

Just remember....almost everything in that timeline above was happening right now, at this point in the season, in January. Bottom line....in January of 2015 it was the furthest thing from a 'dream' it could possibly be.
Great Post!
 
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gottagonow

All-Conference
Apr 14, 2010
4,838
2,739
0
None of the couple of hundred negative post or reply's would even exist if Grayson had hit 2 of 9 instead of 1 of 9 from 3 point land. The only thing anyone would have posted was "boy that was a close call but a win is a win". We were one friggin 3 ball away from being just a little concerned instead of "This team is done".
 

timo0402

Heisman
Feb 24, 2009
13,868
13,709
57
I don't really feel K has softened. He's changed, but to change isn't a bad thing. What I mean by that is sometimes you adapt to changing landscapes. College basketball, and basketball, in general, has changed. Players and kids have changed, too. I'm 39 years old. My parenting techniques are different than the one's my parents used on me. In the grand scheme of things, they're a lot alike and the aim is ultimately the same, but it's approached in a different manner.



Cal recruited Jayson. Michigan St. and Virginia recruit more regionally....on top of that, from age 15 Jayson was considered a strong Duke lean. UK was probably the only of three who would 'waste' resources (or could afford to) to see if they could steer Jayson to their camp.

The 2015 season wasn't a 'dream' for K. It ended well and ultimately that's the goal, but it wasn't without its difficulties. It took quite a bit to reach the pinnacle.

Let's start with Quinn Cook....following 2014 many posters here wanted him gone, and even internally there were discussions about where Duke went from a disappointing season. It took him having multiple 'coming to Jesus' meetings with the staff to get back into their good graces. Thankfully, he stepped up and turned himself into one of the best leaders we've ever seen at Duke.

Then, fast forward to just prior to Christmas break. A roster with only 10 scholarship players, already a challenge, became less when Semi Ojeleye made the decision to transfer. Now we had nine scholarship players.

Conference plays starts. We get out of the gate at 2-0, then proceed to be blown out in Raleigh and get our tails kicked in by Miami at home. Suddenly we're 2-2, damaged goods and can't defend our own shadow. We recover against Louisville for a huge win that was defined as season-changing. But that was hardly the truth.

After a convincing win over Pittsburgh, we go to MSG to play St. John's as K went for win number 1,000. We play like garbage for about 30 minutes, turn things around just in time and leave with a big win....a win that some saw was again redefining. Everything is ok now.

Wait, no, it's not. Then, in South Bend vs. Notre Dame happened. Jerian Grant slices us up for something like 25 and 12, we make 50% of our free throws as a team (missing three front end's in the second half), Jahlil goes 2-for-7 at the line and there's a team dust up in the locker room that we'd come to learn of the following day.

The following day....Rasheed Sulaimon is dismissed from the team. For the fist time in 36 years at Duke, Coach K dismisses a player. The shock is heard nationally and the reaction on this very board was, well, devastating to say the least. Now Duke is down to eight scholarship players with a full two months to play.

But now it gets better, right? Nope. A day after Rasheed is dismissed, in fact, hours after he's dismissed, we come to learn about some potential sexual assault accusations being thrown out there by the Duke Chronicle. This causes local and national media to go after K saying he dismissed Rasheed because this was about to be leaked out and he did it to save face.

So, pardon me, if I don't feel that 2015 was a peach or even a 'dream' for Coach K. You're basing that off one thing and one thing only....we won the national championship. Yes, I understand that's the ultimate goal, but a lot of sh*t happened for that team to reach those heights.....and at every turn mentioned above, posters here were never saying this was a dream, and I can sure as hell assure you the staff wasn't, either.

Now, what that team did was band together. Two days after Rasheed was dismissed we went into Charlottesville to take on the second-ranked, 19-0 Cavaliers with the mantra that "eight was enough." Somehow, despite it looking doubtful going in, we played one of the more inspired games I've ever --- EVER!!! --- seen a Duke team play. We trailed most of the night and then Tyus went Stones on the bit and it was over.

I'm not suggesting this team is going to do anything like that. Hell, I'd predict something a lot different right now and it wouldn't make me sound very positive, but I gave the 2015 team very little chance that night in Virginia, and overall, my mood for the season wasn't rosy, either. I wasn't the only one.

Just remember....almost everything in that timeline above was happening right now, at this point in the season, in January. Bottom line....in January of 2015 it was the furthest thing from a 'dream' it could possibly be.
Excellent recap of 2014-2015, my guess it will fall mostly on deaf ears as the revisionist historians are all out in full force. Everything was perfect in 2015 and Austin Rivers is a cancer, no in between. It's not reality and hell we can't even have an honest look at a single game with a fair view. You mentioned in another thread that Tatum played great for 32 min- he mostly did. But all people want to do is A. Blame him bc of the missed layups and dribble off his foot B. The OAD is ruining our entire program and he should leave. My goodness, so much overreacting isn't healthy. Not at all saying it's not frustrating or ****** right now, it is, and no guarantee we have anything turn around for us, but it's not burn it to the ground time either.
 

WI#1Dukie22

All-Conference
Jan 17, 2008
3,900
1,004
0
I don't really feel K has softened. He's changed, but to change isn't a bad thing. What I mean by that is sometimes you adapt to changing landscapes. College basketball, and basketball, in general, has changed. Players and kids have changed, too. I'm 39 years old. My parenting techniques are different than the one's my parents used on me. In the grand scheme of things, they're a lot alike and the aim is ultimately the same, but it's approached in a different manner.



Cal recruited Jayson. Michigan St. and Virginia recruit more regionally....on top of that, from age 15 Jayson was considered a strong Duke lean. UK was probably the only of three who would 'waste' resources (or could afford to) to see if they could steer Jayson to their camp.

The 2015 season wasn't a 'dream' for K. It ended well and ultimately that's the goal, but it wasn't without its difficulties. It took quite a bit to reach the pinnacle.

Let's start with Quinn Cook....following 2014 many posters here wanted him gone, and even internally there were discussions about where Duke went from a disappointing season. It took him having multiple 'coming to Jesus' meetings with the staff to get back into their good graces. Thankfully, he stepped up and turned himself into one of the best leaders we've ever seen at Duke.

Then, fast forward to just prior to Christmas break. A roster with only 10 scholarship players, already a challenge, became less when Semi Ojeleye made the decision to transfer. Now we had nine scholarship players.

Conference plays starts. We get out of the gate at 2-0, then proceed to be blown out in Raleigh and get our tails kicked in by Miami at home. Suddenly we're 2-2, damaged goods and can't defend our own shadow. We recover against Louisville for a huge win that was defined as season-changing. But that was hardly the truth.

After a convincing win over Pittsburgh, we go to MSG to play St. John's as K went for win number 1,000. We play like garbage for about 30 minutes, turn things around just in time and leave with a big win....a win that some saw was again redefining. Everything is ok now.

Wait, no, it's not. Then, in South Bend vs. Notre Dame happened. Jerian Grant slices us up for something like 25 and 12, we make 50% of our free throws as a team (missing three front end's in the second half), Jahlil goes 2-for-7 at the line and there's a team dust up in the locker room that we'd come to learn of the following day.

The following day....Rasheed Sulaimon is dismissed from the team. For the fist time in 36 years at Duke, Coach K dismisses a player. The shock is heard nationally and the reaction on this very board was, well, devastating to say the least. Now Duke is down to eight scholarship players with a full two months to play.

But now it gets better, right? Nope. A day after Rasheed is dismissed, in fact, hours after he's dismissed, we come to learn about some potential sexual assault accusations being thrown out there by the Duke Chronicle. This causes local and national media to go after K saying he dismissed Rasheed because this was about to be leaked out and he did it to save face.

So, pardon me, if I don't feel that 2015 was a peach or even a 'dream' for Coach K. You're basing that off one thing and one thing only....we won the national championship. Yes, I understand that's the ultimate goal, but a lot of sh*t happened for that team to reach those heights.....and at every turn mentioned above, posters here were never saying this was a dream, and I can sure as hell assure you the staff wasn't, either.

Now, what that team did was band together. Two days after Rasheed was dismissed we went into Charlottesville to take on the second-ranked, 19-0 Cavaliers with the mantra that "eight was enough." Somehow, despite it looking doubtful going in, we played one of the more inspired games I've ever --- EVER!!! --- seen a Duke team play. We trailed most of the night and then Tyus went Stones on the bit and it was over.

I'm not suggesting this team is going to do anything like that. Hell, I'd predict something a lot different right now and it wouldn't make me sound very positive, but I gave the 2015 team very little chance that night in Virginia, and overall, my mood for the season wasn't rosy, either. I wasn't the only one.

Just remember....almost everything in that timeline above was happening right now, at this point in the season, in January. Bottom line....in January of 2015 it was the furthest thing from a 'dream' it could possibly be.


Damn that's a hell of a post!!! Thanks for taking the time to lay it out in such a way. I'm very far from giving up, and it helped my mood towards this season! Nobody with half a brain will count Duke out until they are actually out this season! I see improvement, I see flashes. I stick to thinking we win some big games ahead.
 

WI#1Dukie22

All-Conference
Jan 17, 2008
3,900
1,004
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I do recall the morons next door counting us as dead after that loss to ND as well that season. Ohhh how quick they forget.....
 

skysdad

Heisman
Mar 3, 2006
42,753
22,653
0
I don't really feel K has softened. He's changed, but to change isn't a bad thing. What I mean by that is sometimes you adapt to changing landscapes. College basketball, and basketball, in general, has changed. Players and kids have changed, too. I'm 39 years old. My parenting techniques are different than the one's my parents used on me. In the grand scheme of things, they're a lot alike and the aim is ultimately the same, but it's approached in a different manner.



Cal recruited Jayson. Michigan St. and Virginia recruit more regionally....on top of that, from age 15 Jayson was considered a strong Duke lean. UK was probably the only of three who would 'waste' resources (or could afford to) to see if they could steer Jayson to their camp.

The 2015 season wasn't a 'dream' for K. It ended well and ultimately that's the goal, but it wasn't without its difficulties. It took quite a bit to reach the pinnacle.

Let's start with Quinn Cook....following 2014 many posters here wanted him gone, and even internally there were discussions about where Duke went from a disappointing season. It took him having multiple 'coming to Jesus' meetings with the staff to get back into their good graces. Thankfully, he stepped up and turned himself into one of the best leaders we've ever seen at Duke.

Then, fast forward to just prior to Christmas break. A roster with only 10 scholarship players, already a challenge, became less when Semi Ojeleye made the decision to transfer. Now we had nine scholarship players.

Conference plays starts. We get out of the gate at 2-0, then proceed to be blown out in Raleigh and get our tails kicked in by Miami at home. Suddenly we're 2-2, damaged goods and can't defend our own shadow. We recover against Louisville for a huge win that was defined as season-changing. But that was hardly the truth.

After a convincing win over Pittsburgh, we go to MSG to play St. John's as K went for win number 1,000. We play like garbage for about 30 minutes, turn things around just in time and leave with a big win....a win that some saw was again redefining. Everything is ok now.

Wait, no, it's not. Then, in South Bend vs. Notre Dame happened. Jerian Grant slices us up for something like 25 and 12, we make 50% of our free throws as a team (missing three front end's in the second half), Jahlil goes 2-for-7 at the line and there's a team dust up in the locker room that we'd come to learn of the following day.

The following day....Rasheed Sulaimon is dismissed from the team. For the fist time in 36 years at Duke, Coach K dismisses a player. The shock is heard nationally and the reaction on this very board was, well, devastating to say the least. Now Duke is down to eight scholarship players with a full two months to play.

But now it gets better, right? Nope. A day after Rasheed is dismissed, in fact, hours after he's dismissed, we come to learn about some potential sexual assault accusations being thrown out there by the Duke Chronicle. This causes local and national media to go after K saying he dismissed Rasheed because this was about to be leaked out and he did it to save face.

So, pardon me, if I don't feel that 2015 was a peach or even a 'dream' for Coach K. You're basing that off one thing and one thing only....we won the national championship. Yes, I understand that's the ultimate goal, but a lot of sh*t happened for that team to reach those heights.....and at every turn mentioned above, posters here were never saying this was a dream, and I can sure as hell assure you the staff wasn't, either.

Now, what that team did was band together. Two days after Rasheed was dismissed we went into Charlottesville to take on the second-ranked, 19-0 Cavaliers with the mantra that "eight was enough." Somehow, despite it looking doubtful going in, we played one of the more inspired games I've ever --- EVER!!! --- seen a Duke team play. We trailed most of the night and then Tyus went Stones on the bit and it was over.

I'm not suggesting this team is going to do anything like that. Hell, I'd predict something a lot different right now and it wouldn't make me sound very positive, but I gave the 2015 team very little chance that night in Virginia, and overall, my mood for the season wasn't rosy, either. I wasn't the only one.

Just remember....almost everything in that timeline above was happening right now, at this point in the season, in January. Bottom line....in January of 2015 it was the furthest thing from a 'dream' it could possibly be.



Well said dj. You are and always have been the voice of reason on this board. That's why you are a mod and our leader. Thank you. OFC
 

LetsGoDukies

Senior
Jul 10, 2013
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None of the couple of hundred negative post or reply's would even exist if Grayson had hit 2 of 9 instead of 1 of 9 from 3 point land. The only thing anyone would have posted was "boy that was a close call but a win is a win". We were one friggin 3 ball away from being just a little concerned instead of "This team is done".
Or if we hadn't turned it over and given up that 3 at the end of the first half...that's the one that sticks out to me! But I know we can't look at one play and say it was the reason.. we had our chances.
 
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pisgah101

Heisman
Dec 26, 2005
15,242
12,783
113
None of the couple of hundred negative post or reply's would even exist if Grayson had hit 2 of 9 instead of 1 of 9 from 3 point land. The only thing anyone would have posted was "boy that was a close call but a win is a win". We were one friggin 3 ball away from being just a little concerned instead of "This team is done".

I dont really agree. We were terrible for the most part last night and the opinions of Tatum still wouldn't be different lol
 

Dukesince90

Senior
Nov 27, 2013
1,975
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I dont really agree. We were terrible for the most part last night and the opinions of Tatum still wouldn't be different lol
You're right. I still don't think he cost us the game. It was a team loss, but Grayson still seems out of sort.
 
Oct 26, 2016
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I honestly don't understand folks who are still defending Tatum. Below are updated +/- stats (courtesy of DBR) through NC State. Other than Giles, Tatum is the worst on the team.

Honestly couldn't care less if he looks smooth or oozes potential or whatever. The data makes it very clear he's usually the worst guy on the floor.

He has Duke on his jersey but I care about all the other guys with Duke on their jerseys. The advanced stats say Tatum's terrible +/- is almost solely due to his Offensive inefficiency. In other words, he should be looking to pass to an open shooter at every opportunity. He's 18 and not going to do this w/o some serious coaching from the staff. And if it doesn't get through, he's welcome to the end of the bench while he waits for the draft.

Name '+/- Per 40
Jones 17.5
Jefferson 20.7
Kennard 14.7
Allen 16.0
Jackson 13.4
Jeter 14.0
Vrankovich 37.4
DeLaurier 25.6
Bolden 17.7
Tatum 11.5
Giles 0.0
 
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sheyduke

All-American
Apr 13, 2010
13,453
8,824
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No team is the same and I think this team just lacks heart and the physical tuffness.

I'm tired of seeing players look at refs like they should get a foul every time your touched. It's called put on your big boy pants and do something about it play hard or go grab the cheerleaders Pom poms.

All the players with the exception of Jackson and Matt are doing it. You want those calls go hard at the rim and score.

Why I think Duke isn't doomed this team isn't a team. You want to live up to hype play like you deserve it or do like they are doing now and faulted.
We need a Lance Thomas, Who after that Clemson beat down got in every players face starting with his self and told," this isn't how you play in a Duke uniform!"
Or a guard like Gerald Henderson after Nolan got the concusion at Maryland, he got so pissed he cleared the lane from the top of the key and threw it down with authority and said now f with us.
Where is the Singler type player who was all heart!
Luke and Grayson and Matt and Amile need to pull this team together.

Can we lay of Tatum? If anything he needs to stop shooting jumpers and drive to the rack. He's gonna make mistakes so let it go he didn't cost Duke the game the team as a whole let State catch up and pass them!
 

chov1125

All-Conference
Oct 15, 2008
3,044
1,826
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http://www.si.com/college-basketbal...-steve-masiello-rant-fraudulent-society-video

I will leave this link here and ask anyone interested to check it out....it struck me both hearing the words and seeing them on paper as I gave it some serious thought. I think this coach is spot on with his points and I look at it from a Duke perspective. The game has always come easy to these kids as they have all been blessed to have supreme talent. I have a sneaky suspicion that this year has likely been the toughest year they have endured, just speaking in terms of the game. This team has had nothing go their way as individuals or as a team.

Now I have no idea how our guys are reacting to this adversity I'm not in practice I'm not on the sidelines. I really have no way to evaluate how we are responding to the adversity. But there is something to be said about this youngest generation and how hard people are willing to work when things don't go their way, how quickly they concede. It would be easy for some of our guys to give up, they will be lottery picks regardless of whether we make the tournament or how this season finishes out. But I am really curious to see how this group continues to respond.

Most of all how can we expect them to improve? We judge them continuously on this board but how about we judge ourselves as fans? Things are certainly not going our way, the easy thing to do is give up and say this player stinks that player stinks Duke stinks the season is over. How can we judge our players when we as fans can't handle adversity?

I don't think this year is over, not by a long shot. We don't need to win a million regular season games for this year to be a success. We have a ton of talent on the roster, all of them are capable of turning this around. I am not the coach and my impact on this team is non existent but if I was I would challenge them as individuals not as basketball players. this generation may not respond to adversity on their own but maybe if they are reached as people and not just players they may be inspired enough to buy in and make the necessary challenges. I myself gave up on the year last night and I gave up on the year after the first half against Miami. But each time I remember that if I want to remain loyal and supportive and expect greatness, I can't throw in the towel myself at the first sign of adversity.