Grayson looks like he is wore down... we will be a #8 seed... Love my Dukies!! #justkeepfightin #GoDuke
This Team is Tired...
- Thread starter seminole-dog
- Start date
Tired or not it is what it is. We have some guys that need to step up so some of our starters can get some rest. Coach K can't rely on them right now because they don't do anything but foul and get back doored when they are on the court. I know I'm venting and it's not like me to be critical of our players but enough is enough. They are at Duke for a reason. Some say Coach K doesn't give them enough time but when they are out there opposition leads increase and there is no production and the only stats provided are fouls. Right now with the way they are playing Coach K could give them 20 minutes if they could last that long without fouling out and produce nothing. Sorry guys I've said enough. GO DUKE. OFC
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We've had this discussion in other threads - who do you expect to step up at this point? We've seen that Jeter & Obi just aren't capable of making an impact this year, has nothing to do with effort or heart. I think these guys are exerting maximum effort, we just aren't good this year.
Sky I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree when you say guys must step up right away. Chase was the only one getting rotation minutes from day one. And yes, he is foul prone. Sean and Vrank did not have that luxury.
Marshall is the one really tired and limited at times. Jon, Nolan and Kyle were our only wings(and yes, they were upperclassmen), and they scored points, our Bigs played D and rebound. Key word BIGS. Right now we only have one. I'm proud of this team, but out Frontcourt have to get playing time and unfortunately make their mistakes now, if we want to play in March.
I wonder if trying another big along side Marshall would help, while pushing Ingram back to the three spot. This would allow us to go big and add another shot blocker and rebounder in the post. Hopefully, Amile comes back soon! His presence is missed!
Too much athleticism tonite and Rodriguez confidence level maxes out against us. I also thought we would come out strong 2nd half like Saturday, but it was just the opposite and really told the tale....
Schedule fits perfect for us right now. 8 days off and then at tech and 3 home games in a row and smile should be back after that. We need to go 3-1 and be safe in ncaa
I tell ya tired legs kill us every year!! I think we're alarmingly unathletic too
I have been screaming since Amile went down to atleast try Jeter and Marshall on the court together and that would allow Ingram at the 3. Please will coach K just try it for 5 min stretch in the 1st half. Playing 6 men will not work so why keep doing it??????
Tired legs is real during the duration of 1 game.. If it wasn't, then every team would have their 5 best players play 40 minutes each.. Being dead tired at the end of a game results in silly fouls, missed free throws & jump shots, and being a step too slow on defense.
Miami got 45 minutes from their bench and Duke for 21 minutes from theirs.. K has to get a 7th player to contribute.. Hell, I would try Vrank next game..
Yes and I think he could possibly do better if he plays beside another big, at this point what could it hurt?
I have seen Jeter play. I bet if you asked Coach K last year was Grayson Allen ready to contribute he would have said "NO" but K was wrong, Allen should have been playing at least 10 mins a game last year. Now Jeter will not look good because every time he makes one mistake he is taken right back out the game. Let him get a feel for the game, keep him in for 5 minutes and lets see what he can do. At some point you have to change, we are 1-4 in out last 5 games so the current 6 man rotation playing zone defense isn't working.
We currently have 5 scorers in Ingram, Allen, Kennard, Jones and Thornton by allowing Jeter to play we could have 3 scorers on the floor and 2 players to sub in that way they get some rest. Also Ingram goes back to his natural position and is less likely to be in foul trouble.
In 2010 we had 3 primary scorers and 2 bigs, all I am saying is try it for 5 minutes in the first half if it doesn't work we can always go back to 1 big
We currently have 5 scorers in Ingram, Allen, Kennard, Jones and Thornton by allowing Jeter to play we could have 3 scorers on the floor and 2 players to sub in that way they get some rest. Also Ingram goes back to his natural position and is less likely to be in foul trouble.
In 2010 we had 3 primary scorers and 2 bigs, all I am saying is try it for 5 minutes in the first half if it doesn't work we can always go back to 1 big
Jeter could possibly be a late bloomer in the season like Grayson was last season. Thoughout the season last year you could see that Grayson was playing too fast and out of control causing him to make mistakes but then something clicked late in the season. As for trying Jeter for 5 minutes to see what he can do, are you forgetting that he had a game not too long ago where he only played 4 minutes because he picked up 5 fouls in those 4 minutes and fouled out of the game? Something just hasn't clicked with him yet (most likely confidence) but it could click toward the end of the season like it did for Grayson last season. Some players just struggle their freshman year no matter how good they are.
They've had the opportunity to earn PT during every practice just like everyone else. There is no "luxury."
I don't think we are tired...I think we just are not very good.
We don't have alot...pretty easy to see what those things are.
Our offense is totally predicated on penetration and kicking out. Stop the penetration we have nothing..we are totally perimeter oriented. Something I think could be solved with Ingram..but we don't use him as a threat that way. His ability midrange and inside from time to time can open things up.
Amile coming back will help a bit but him alone isn't going to fix all the problems with this team.
One thing that concerns me is how are we practicing?? K said last night our zone looks good against our walk ons. I know he was kidding...but how can you defend if your playing shadow defense or defending walk ons in practice. Competition in practice makes you better..this squad has no competition. We practice against ghost..or guys that are not good enough to see the floor. That should tell you all you need to know. He already said we don't run 2 on 1 rebounding drills anymore for fear of an injury. Little things make big differences..and quite frankly I don't think we are practicing like we need to.
I thought this was the worst Duke team since 06-07 but it's quite possibly the worst since 95-96. We are in a world of hurt..I think as of today the tournament is in real jeopardy..we need to beat some good teams and I'm not sure this team can do that.
We don't have alot...pretty easy to see what those things are.
Our offense is totally predicated on penetration and kicking out. Stop the penetration we have nothing..we are totally perimeter oriented. Something I think could be solved with Ingram..but we don't use him as a threat that way. His ability midrange and inside from time to time can open things up.
Amile coming back will help a bit but him alone isn't going to fix all the problems with this team.
One thing that concerns me is how are we practicing?? K said last night our zone looks good against our walk ons. I know he was kidding...but how can you defend if your playing shadow defense or defending walk ons in practice. Competition in practice makes you better..this squad has no competition. We practice against ghost..or guys that are not good enough to see the floor. That should tell you all you need to know. He already said we don't run 2 on 1 rebounding drills anymore for fear of an injury. Little things make big differences..and quite frankly I don't think we are practicing like we need to.
I thought this was the worst Duke team since 06-07 but it's quite possibly the worst since 95-96. We are in a world of hurt..I think as of today the tournament is in real jeopardy..we need to beat some good teams and I'm not sure this team can do that.
We won the national championship but K "should have."
Grayson's outstanding title game performance means K was wrong for not playing him and Chase's horrible performances mean K is wrong for not playing him.
Sure thing, coach.
Isn't it OK to admit the other team is better? We are without our entire starting 5 from last year. At least we aren't Wisconsin. There is no easy fix this season. Next play.
I can see the validity of trying Chase beside MP3, j ust for the sake of a different look, and perhaps he would feel more confident...
I understand everyone on here to be Duke fans. But I am curious if anyone watches the rest of college basketball. Look at the landscape this year in particular. Mature teams are the cream of the crop this year. Yes, Duke is limited in many ways. But look at who is winning this year and it shouldnt surprise anyone that this Duke team is struggling. Look at some of the other year in year out powerhouses. Kansas is supposedly loaded this year and they are middle of the Big 12. As always Ol' Roy got the drop on everyone. He knew that if he could get his guys to underachieve for 2-3 years it would pay off in one glorious year of coaching a team full of seniors and juniors. I think thats the real problem.
the team is good...yeah they have lost 4 of 5 but they are still competitive in spite of....they rallied last night to get it within 4 iirc and it just snowballed in the end....it is tough seeing a guard battling a pf/c for a rebound or a block attempt....i am all for moving brandon back to the 3 and playing chase/obi/vrank at the pf for size and rebounding and rim protection, thats 15 fouls, have at it!!!!!!...we will still have 3 scorers at any given time.........the pressure of not getting in foul trouble has to weigh on overall aggressiveness and sometimes lax defense....if you get beat off the dribble, you got obi/jeter/vrank and 15 fouls...hack away!!!
Best thing rite now is adequate time we have to prepare for EACH of the next two games...I honestly expect us to win the next two because The Greatest Of All Time HAS TIME to get the guys RESTED and READY (much like our game in Raleigh!)
Having Jeter/Obi/Vrank on the bench reminds me a lot of the early 2000's with Sanders/Christensen/Horvath. Those guys mostly rode the bench for their careers with occasional spot minutes - we were playing 6 guys by and large back then just like we our today. I was excited about seeing Chase get a couple minutes last night - but after two minutes, I was relieved that K took him out. He looks slow on defense and tentative on offense. I think there's a reason why K didn't play those bigs in the past, and there's a reason he's not playing the bigs now. But as many have said, don't write Chase off yet, he's got talent. It will come with time.
Comments like this always bug me, as they assume K is infallible. He's a great coach but his approach to the game has weaknesses, including not playing and developing his bench. We have no depth this year in part because guys like G and Semi never saw the floor and decided to transfer.
I happen to agree with the previous poster that Allen could have developed more quickly if he had seen more game time prior to Sheed leaving the team.
Lobsters No One is "infallible" and hey Its ok to voice your opinion....
I think it is time to play some of these bench players and at least play aggressive. I'd rather see everybody foul out than play this soft defense with guards trying to defend power forwards. Miami could shoot a 3 point set shot or throw it up for a dunk.
He didn't say what you wanted him to say, so you interpret that to mean he thinks K is infallible?
Every coach does have weaknesses. But sometimes it's what they do to combat those weaknesses. K has always played a tighter rotation. Many great coaches before him and currently were/are the same way....Bob Knight, Tom Izzo, Jim Boeheim, even Rick Pitino. On the other end of the spectrum, how often have we heard of Roy Williams, Dean Smith, and just last year John Calipari face heat because they don't shorten rotations? As fans we get to sit back and always be right....pointing out flaws and how things should be different, despite never spending a single minute at a practice or around the team.
As for Semi, he did what he felt was best for him. Gbinije doesn't really apply to this season's team....he'd already be graduated. But even with Syracuse, it wasn't until his fourth season of college, last year, where he made a significant impact. Every player has a different arc and doesn't follow the same path. For every freshman who is able to be major contributors right away there is another who is not. That's reality.
Also, Grayson was behind better players last season. When Sheed was dismissed his opportunity came, and he took advantage of it. Then he had a great Final Four weekend and was a key component to us winning a national championship. This season he's averaging 20 points per game, as a sophomore, and is a likely first-teamer in the ACC. But you're arguing he could have been developed more quickly? How dumb does that sound?
You're making several assumptions:
1. playing young guys who aren't ready regularly is more effective than playing a young guy who isn't ready every 4 games for 5 minutes to remind him he's not ready
2. coaching during games is better than coaching a guy up in practice
3. the transfers would have been satisfied with a few extra minutes here and there
4. Semi, Murphy and Gbinije would've definitely gotten better
5. benched players "deserve" those minutes (see Sheed's attitude)
I think you can make the argument K should use his bench more, we've all had the thought. But it's like questioning the president's decisions about ISIS. You don't have the info he does. Maybe K is playing the long game, and we can't see it. The fact is, he's the GOAT. DO we win even more games and titles doing it differently? Probably not. Every decision is a trade off at this level. Had we wasted time developing Murphy, do we land Jah? Who knows...
Now, please accept my 'ignore'. Thanks.
I kind of go the other way, for better or worse. With what he has accomplished, I think it is almost impossible to criticize K without looking either uninformed or a like a hater. I think that for the average fan he is, quite frankly, above reproach. We can disagree with him, but we would almost certainly be wrong. His 1000+ wins and 5 chips give him that eternal luxury.
Now that doesn't mean there can't be discussion, hence the message board.
I think one of the things we tend to forget about it "mental fatigue". This can take the energy out of a player, including the legs. HS All Americans or not, some are ready for the kind of pressure CBB brings with it, and some are not as ready. Not only is this Duke team young, they don't yet have the experience to handle the "mental fatigue" at this time. Not to account for the pressure of playing for a Coaching Legend and a big time program like Duke, can we add anything else to them.
There is so much parity (especially this year) and a majority of those teams are veteran teams, it is absurd for anyone to say that Duke is not a good team. We have been in every loss (with a chance to win, except for maybe Kentucky early), and these kids have battled to the end. I am as disappointed as any of you because I bleed Duke blue, but I am so proud of these kids I could bust.
I am also pulling for Chase Jeter, and have said so on many occasions, but the bottom line is that he is totally overwhelmed at this point, and I think "K" is doing what he feels is the best for Chase.
We have to ride this out guys, and as sure as I am posting this, I guarantee you, this team will make some noise before this season is over!
Go Duke!!
JC-OFC
There is so much parity (especially this year) and a majority of those teams are veteran teams, it is absurd for anyone to say that Duke is not a good team. We have been in every loss (with a chance to win, except for maybe Kentucky early), and these kids have battled to the end. I am as disappointed as any of you because I bleed Duke blue, but I am so proud of these kids I could bust.
I am also pulling for Chase Jeter, and have said so on many occasions, but the bottom line is that he is totally overwhelmed at this point, and I think "K" is doing what he feels is the best for Chase.
We have to ride this out guys, and as sure as I am posting this, I guarantee you, this team will make some noise before this season is over!
Go Duke!!
JC-OFC
K is not infallible and no one has remotely claimed he is, but those criticisms are ridiculous. We have no depth this year b/c guys have not developed and we lost our top 4 players from last year. G and Semi never earned PT and decided to transfer. As a redshirt soph at Syracuse, Gbinije averaged all of 3.4 ppg in 14.6 mpg. That would have been his junior year at Duke, and we had Jabari, Hood, Sulaimon, Dawkins, Alex Murphy (there's another transfer, now averaging 3.3 ppg as a senior at Florida), Quinn Cook, Tyler Thornton, and Matt Jones all competing for time at 1-4.
Grayson didn't earn more PT last year.
What you're identifying is a different preference than how K develops his rotation, not a weakness or a mistake. He has won 5 titles by playing neutral site games and using a short rotation. It's not a mistake. It's how he does it, and it has worked. And if you've been a Duke fan for more than the last 5 games, you should know this and you should have made your peace with it. For good reason, people will catch some flak when they spout off with their brilliant solution that is completely antithetical to how K has coached for 40+ years while accumulating over 1,000 wins.
Not an issue in Chapel Hill. "My major is basketball."
-McCants
K would probably be the first to say that his short rotation has not worked well this year. But crap happens sometimes, we just got caught with our pants down this year because, like everyone knows, Jefferson's injury, the freshmen leaving last year and players not developing. Of course we were already thin before Jeffersons injury and just some foul problems away from trouble just like its turned out for us. We play 3 or 4 freshmen that were playing last season against high school 9th thru 12th graders. Does what K has been able to accomplish in 38 seasons at Duke mean he won't have a few difficult seasons? Of course not and we should expect it but hurts my feelings to see our players losing for the reasons we are losing. Fortunately for Duke, all of this can be corrected with a couple of hot shooting games.
Remember, like DukeDenver said above, we are without out entire starting lineup from last season.
Remember, like DukeDenver said above, we are without out entire starting lineup from last season.
Dattier, you've been around the game a long time, you can witness to a player being great in practice and awful in a game, and vice versa. Sometimes you must take some chances. This is a time to take a chance, and I know Coach K is willing to take a chance.