This Team is Tired...

[jamsession3]

That's up to K. What we all know is Marshall is wearing down, and he's being asked to do more than he is able to do. Two years ago, I was crying for Marshall to play along side Parker and Hood. It would've allowed Amile to play his natural position and maybe, do something for Marshall's confidence at that time.

What's the Con? Oak might not have come to Duke if Marshall began to improve and 'encourage' K to give him minutes the following year. Recruits watch the previous year carefully...

 

[Dattier]

If it's up to K, then stop trying to say how he ought to do his job in his 36th season at the same job.

I do not think Marshall is wearing down, but a worn down Marshall is better than any form of Jeter right now.
Marshall is not hurting for confidence b/c he didn't get enough PT two years ago for your taste. Amile was a better option then, even out of position, and Jabari was more than capable of playing the college 4. Who would you have benched to give Marshall minutes you know better than K that he deserved? Marshall, Amile, Jabari, Rodney, and Quinn? So seniors Tyler Thornton and Andre Dawkins, and sophomore Rasheed Sulaimon?

Jahlil Okafor came to Duke. He helped us win the national championship last season, then went 3rd overall to the Sixers in the NBA Draft.

 

[Dukesince90]

I always find it comical how a lot of posters know what's best for the team.
I trust K. I haven't seen one second of practice or know what makes each player tick, but I sure as hell know what should be done to get this team some wins! LOL

 

[Crank_it_loud]

Not sure why you all waste time with Lobsters who is a troll UK fan....

 

[skysdad]

Tired or not it is what it is. We have some guys that need to step up so some of our starters can get some rest. Coach K can't rely on them right now because they don't do anything but foul and get back doored when they are on the court. I know I'm venting and it's not like me to be critical of our players but enough is enough. They are at Duke for a reason. Some say Coach K doesn't give them enough time but when they are out there opposition leads increase and there is no production and the only stats provided are fouls. Right now with the way they are playing Coach K could give them 20 minutes if they could last that long without fouling out and produce nothing. Sorry guys I've said enough. GO DUKE. OFC

I feel like I need to apologize to board for this negative post. I thought about just deleting it but it's still there. I should have just bitten my lip and kept my mouth shut. I know all on the team is trying hard and none of them likes losing. They're my team and I should support them. I've always been positive in supporting all of our players and teams throughout all the years I've been a Duke fan. I have faith in this team and sooner or later it will all come together . Plus I'm blaming it all on Heyman25. I miss that daggum old fart . OFC

 

[adm015]

A lot of people are saying Jeter and Obi are not ready. I understand that point of view but why continue to lose with 6 players, give those guys a chance. I can list several of players who were freshman on other teams that got playing time and they were not good there freshman year. I can remember John Henson shooting air ball hook shots his freshman year. Brice Johnson and Meeks was garbage. Florida State a few years back had the 7 foot guy, he was garbage but he played and was able to get a few rebounds though. People said Ryan Kelly wasn't ready his freshman year but we don't know because he didn't get any playing time.

 

[pisgah101]

Ryan Kelly was on a national champion team his freshman year with a lot of roles solidified. I think it worked well with him right where he was

 

[dukiejay]

A lot of people are saying Jeter and Obi are not ready. I understand that point of view but why continue to lose with 6 players, give those guys a chance.

Is it really a point of view though? If anyone has watched Jeter play they can see he's not ready.

And honestly, I think the six guys playing giving us the best chance to win.

 

[adm015]

Ryan Kelly was on a national champion team his freshman year with a lot of roles solidified. I think it worked well with him right where he was

Why didn't coach K red shirt him then, dude got no playing time his freshman year just like Vrank. Why recruit these guys give them scholarships and give them NO PLAYING TIME. I'm not saying they should play 30 minutes but you can find 5-10 minutes per game especially all those games early in the season when Duke was blowing teams out by 20-30 points.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

i agree DJ....with Chase being unproductive it is hard to sit any one of the productive guys in hopes that Chase produces

 

[adm015]

You know we could have seen how well Jeter or Obi plays beside of Plumlee is Coach K would have given those guys playing time when Duke was beating their opponents by 20-30 points earlier in the season, but instead Coach K decides to keep them on the bench. That makes no sense to me but. If you are winning by 20 points with 4 minutes left why not take some of the starters out and let the bench get a few minutes?

 

[dukiejay]

Why didn't coach K red shirt him then, dude got no playing time his freshman year just like Vrank. Why recruit these guys give them scholarships and give them NO PLAYING TIME. I'm not saying they should play 30 minutes but you can find 5-10 minutes per game especially all those games early in the season when Duke was blowing teams out by 20-30 points.

K has said one of the mistakes he made was in not redshirting Kelly.

 

[Tlass]

Can anyone really say what Coach K should and should not do? I mean come on guys. He has the MOST wins NCAA history, he’s a hall of famer, most successful coach DUKE has ever had (IMHO), and 5 NCAA championships, this is just to name a few of his accomplishments. The man obviously knows exactly what he's doing, and what it takes to make a winning team.I think he has a vision for each and every team, and makes adjustments accordingly. Let the season play out. I mean we've had an incredible ride under the guy. Lots of programs would kill for our current record and roster. I’m not bashing anyone here just hard to see some of these comments 2nd guessing the leader of our team.

 

[Crank_it_loud]

I would love to see obi Vrank or Jeter alongside Plumlee, having a monster interior like he did against ST Johns last year. It would insure some more rebounds, helping Duke get 2nd and 3rd chances....

 

[pisgah101]

K has said one of the mistakes he made was in not redshirting Kelly.

Man.. That Jabari team woulda been a whole lot different with Kelly on it

 

[Smythe13]

Man.. That Jabari team woulda been a whole lot different with Kelly on it

Or if K would have used some zone with Jabari team

 

[K-oach Q]

Or if K would have used some zone with Jabari team

This was the only year I thought K did a pretty bad job coaching a team..zone may have went a long way with that team. He never waivered...I thought that team had potential to be pretty good and thought it obvious they were not being coached up very well.

Understandably Coach K had his personal dealings with that season and I think that was a large large factor. He even said himself he wasn't doing a good job with that team that season.

I think losing to Mercer with that team was a bit of an embarrassment for him and laid the foundation for his willingness to now use some different defensive philosophies.

Maybe what he learned that season is the reason we won it all last year..he showed a willingness to change defensively he didn't show with Jabari's team.

He's done the same this season..it's pretty obvious he's trying everything and the guys are playing hard. We just don't have the horses...(a different discussion) we certainly are not losing because of lack of coaching or willingness to adapt.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Yeah, this team is tired...of losing. But they're fighting hard, and that means a lot to me.

OFC

 

[hpnole]

Yeah, this team is tired...of losing. But they're fighting hard, and that means a lot to me.

OFC

And, it ain't like they are getting blown out. I really believe they will be fine when Amile gets back, provided there are no more injuries. Right now that would be disaster if one of the other six sustained an injury.

 

[Dukesince90]

And, it ain't like they are getting blown out. I really believe they will be fine when Amile gets back, provided there are no more injuries. Right now that would be disaster if one of the other six sustained an injury.

Yeah, I held my breath when BI went down holding his ankle.

 

[Dattier]

why continue to lose with 6 players

Sounds like you've given up on trying to win.

give those guys a chance.

They have a chance every day in practice.

I can list several of players who were freshman on other teams that got playing time and they were not good there freshman year.

I'm sure every one of those teams is accepting new fans all the time.

People said Ryan Kelly wasn't ready his freshman year but we don't know because he didn't get any playing time.

We know because he didn't get any playing time.

 

[K-oach Q]

Sounds like you've given up on trying to win.

They have a chance every day in practice.

I'm sure every one of those teams is accepting new fans all the time.

We know because he didn't get any playing time.

I don't necessarily agree with this...

Elliott Williams is a good example...he couldn't get any playing time and then was magically a starter for the rest of the year which coincided immediately following transfer rumors because he was unhappy with PT.

If he was all of a sudden good enough to start I'd have to imagine he was good enough to get some minutes along the way.

Having said that...I havnt seen anything from the guys not getting minutes this year that makes you think they should be getting minutes.

 

[Anon1728003274]

You know we could have seen how well Jeter or Obi plays beside of Plumlee is Coach K would have given those guys playing time when Duke was beating their opponents by 20-30 points earlier in the season, but instead Coach K decides to keep them on the bench. That makes no sense to me but. If you are winning by 20 points with 4 minutes left why not take some of the starters out and let the bench get a few minutes?

And adm, in retrospect I can see your point about games early on and giving the reserve bigs minutes. I do like the idea of one of them playing alongside MP3 to move BI to the 3.

Again, that said I am just a an old diehard VERY MINDFUL I shouldnt be questioning the best ever...Btw, K w/time is EVEN MORE POWERFUL in prep, which is why I feel so good about both games next week!

 

[Dattier]

I don't necessarily agree with this...

Elliott Williams is a good example...he couldn't get any playing time and then was magically a starter for the rest of the year which coincided immediately following transfer rumors because he was unhappy with PT.

If he was all of a sudden good enough to start I'd have to imagine he was good enough to get some minutes along the way.

Having said that...I havnt seen anything from the guys not getting minutes this year that makes you think they should be getting minutes.

There are rumors about every guy who doesn't get minutes transferring. What makes you think K is such a sycophant he's going to rush to give PT to someone to keep them from transferring? How little does a person have to think of K to imagine that when teenage basketball players come on strong at the end of the year the least likely explanation is that something finally clicked and the most likely explanations are that K made a mistake by forgetting that player was on the team or that he is so desperate as to throw PT at the kid who is somehow suddenly bigger than the program?

Elliot Williams' mom sure took that faking cancer to get her son a waiver to transfer too far.

 

[K-oach Q]

There are rumors about every guy who doesn't get minutes transferring. What makes you think K is such a sycophant he's going to rush to give PT to someone to keep them from transferring? How little does a person have to think of K to imagine that when teenage basketball players come on strong at the end of the year the least likely explanation is that something finally clicked and the most likely explanations are that K made a mistake by forgetting that player was on the team or that he is so desperate as to throw PT at the kid who is somehow suddenly bigger than the program?

Elliot Williams' mom sure took that faking cancer to get her son a waiver to transfer too far.

if I remember his situation correctly he wasn't playing....then there were grumbling a of him saying he was going to transfer because of PT. I think maybe even he expressed this to the coaches...then one day he was a starter...then his transfer became Immenant because of the sickness with his mother coming to light.

I could remember the details wrong and that's fine and I would stand corrected.

The only detail that matters and the one I don't agree with necessarily is that they can earn PT in practice...I have a really hard time believing that he wasn't capabable of earning minutes at all and then had such a drastic jump of consciousness that he went from no time to starter.

There is a gradualness that happens in athletic performance and developing athletes, and that situation has no gradualness at all. Had he been trending say 10 min .....15.....20...I could see it. But from where he was to starter?? Yes it makes me question why he wasn't hardly playing to begin with where he was at least a contributor off the bench.

I do think K makes mistakes...all coaches do. Someone once told me don't be afraid to coach and if you make a mistake go back and fix it. I think K ultimately went back and fixed this one...and I'm fine with that. The light didn't go from off to luminescent over night.

 

[jamsession3]

If it's up to K, then stop trying to say how he ought to do his job in his 36th season at the same job.

I do not think Marshall is wearing down, but a worn down Marshall is better than any form of Jeter right now.
Marshall is not hurting for confidence b/c he didn't get enough PT two years ago for your taste. Amile was a better option then, even out of position, and Jabari was more than capable of playing the college 4. Who would you have benched to give Marshall minutes you know better than K that he deserved? Marshall, Amile, Jabari, Rodney, and Quinn? So seniors Tyler Thornton and Andre Dawkins, and sophomore Rasheed Sulaimon?

Jahlil Okafor came to Duke. He helped us win the national championship last season, then went 3rd overall to the Sixers in the NBA Draft.

Dat, you're wrong. You have no idea what that 'might' have done for Marshall's confidence two years ago, or how that might have helped Jabari at the wf, Amile at the pf and Hood at the sg! Yes, it's history, but many posters were crying for that lineup. Something different. No different then posters saying play Jeter and Obi...and maybe Vrank. Fine, we trust K and he has his reasons, but be clear his reasons may not be what you or I may like. He's the coach.

 

[jamsession3]

There are rumors about every guy who doesn't get minutes transferring. What makes you think K is such a sycophant he's going to rush to give PT to someone to keep them from transferring? How little does a person have to think of K to imagine that when teenage basketball players come on strong at the end of the year the least likely explanation is that something finally clicked and the most likely explanations are that K made a mistake by forgetting that player was on the team or that he is so desperate as to throw PT at the kid who is somehow suddenly bigger than the program?

Elliot Williams' mom sure took that faking cancer to get her son a waiver to transfer too far.

The cancer was never fake, but Josh provided Elliot the best opportunity to showcase his NBA talent.

 

[dukiejay]

Dat, you're wrong. You have no idea what that 'might' have done for Marshall's confidence two years ago...

He's wrong....in your opinion. That's the difference. You don't know, either. Your opinion is based off just that....his is based off 36 years of using a solid, fundamental approach.

The cancer was never fake, but Josh provided Elliot the best opportunity to showcase his NBA talent.

I know I've chided you over the years for making some completely asinine posts....but this one is up there. How in holy hell can you even suggest something so stupid?

 

[Dattier]

if I remember his situation correctly he wasn't playing....then there were grumbling a of him saying he was going to transfer because of PT. I think maybe even he expressed this to the coaches...then one day he was a starter...then his transfer became Immenant because of the sickness with his mother coming to light.

I could remember the details wrong and that's fine and I would stand corrected.

The only detail that matters and the one I don't agree with necessarily is that they can earn PT in practice...I have a really hard time believing that he wasn't capabable of earning minutes at all and then had such a drastic jump of consciousness that he went from no time to starter.

There is a gradualness that happens in athletic performance and developing athletes, and that situation has no gradualness at all. Had he been trending say 10 min .....15.....20...I could see it. But from where he was to starter?? Yes it makes me question why he wasn't hardly playing to begin with where he was at least a contributor off the bench.

I do think K makes mistakes...all coaches do. Someone once told me don't be afraid to coach and if you make a mistake go back and fix it. I think K ultimately went back and fixed this one...and I'm fine with that. The light didn't go from off to luminescent over night.

I remember the grumblings from us, not Elliot. He was 7th in total minutes played that season w/ 3 DNPs (the 18th, 24th, and 25th games). He started 11 of the last 12 games, logging more than 30 minutes in 7 of those 12. At 16.6 mpg and 4.2 ppg on the year, his per 40 ppg was 8th out of 9 players who played in more than 30 games and averaged more than 10 minutes. Statistically, there is plenty of explanation for why he didn't play more.

And his mom has died after a 12 year battle with cancer, so that was quite legit, yet b/c he looked at UK for like, a minute, and it wasn't "close enough" to home, we have created some big conspiracy around his transfer.

 

[Dattier]

Dat, you're wrong. You have no idea what that 'might' have done for Marshall's confidence two years ago, or how that might have helped Jabari at the wf, Amile at the pf and Hood at the sg! Yes, it's history, but many posters were crying for that lineup. Something different. No different then posters saying play Jeter and Obi...and maybe Vrank. Fine, we trust K and he has his reasons, but be clear his reasons may not be what you or I may like. He's the coach.

Yeah, misreading what I wrote almost always leads to thinking I'm wrong. I didn't say anything about Marshall's confidence two years ago. I said he is not hurting for confidence as a result of not getting enough coddling PT 2 years ago.

Further, the person making an assertion needs to back it up. It's not up to the person refuting it -- in the case of the post you quoted, me -- to do their homework for them. This fan fiction about how Marshall's confidence suffered because the mean ole' coach wouldn't give him a PT handout is what teenage girls write about. In the absence of the slightest shred of evidence, my "opinion" is the default fact. Save your speculative whining about my not having a clue and go prove a clue exists in the first place.

The posters saying play Jeter, Obi, and Vrank have been resoundingly and deservedly slammed for that position, just like those who thought Jabari was a college 3 rather than a stretch 4.

 

[K-oach Q]

I totally know his moms sickness was legit and believe that's why he transferred. If she hadn't been I don't believe he goes anywhere..

I was meaning to talk about practice..minutes played..and his sudden rise to starter.

If you think, I think his mothers sickness was a farce..I don't..and never was trying to imply anything about that situation.

The stuff you posted on his minutes played is interesting and where I was hoping the conversation would go...

 

[dukiejay]

This isn't concrete, but I have it on decent authority that Elliot didn't fit in as well as he had hoped at Duke. And I don't necessarily mean with just the team....also socially. While his mom's sickness had a great deal with him transferring, it wasn't the only thing.

 

[Dattier]

Nah, K-oach Q, I made a leap from what you said to ranting about that other thing people have added to the Elliot Williams rumor mill.

dukiejay, that seems totally possible and understandable, but I have a sneaking suspicion there are some people out there who will crow about what a special, unique place Duke is out of one side of their mouths, then find some reason to blame Elliot's not fitting in socially on K out of the other side of their mouths... especially when we've lost 4 of 5 games seven seasons and two national championships later.

 

[Mpm277]

Yeah, we're not doing too well with the guys who are playing, but how someone can watch Jeter and Obi and think to themselves "Those guys should totally be getting more minutes" is beyond me.

Who is Jeter going to take minutes from? Marshall? Marshall is actually playing pretty good ball. Who is Obi going to take minutes from? Ingram? Does that actually sound like a good idea?

 

[Dattier]

Yeah, we're not doing too well with the guys who are playing, but how someone can watch Jeter and Obi and think to themselves "Those guys should totally be getting more minutes" is beyond me.

Who is Jeter going to take minutes from? Marshall? Marshall is actually playing pretty good ball. Who is Obi going to take minutes from? Ingram? Does that actually sound like a good idea?

Yup, yup. It's as if some people who've shown up recently are eating a mediocre burrito and decide, "Hmmm, I think I'll check out how the bark on that tree over there tastes instead."

 

[jamsession3]

He's wrong....in your opinion. That's the difference. You don't know, either. Your opinion is based off just that....his is based off 36 years of using a solid, fundamental approach.



I know I've chided you over the years for making some completely asinine posts....but this one is up there. How in holy hell can you even suggest something so stupid?

Williams was the focal point on that Memphis team. It got him a first pick. FACT.

 

[jamsession3]

Nah, K-oach Q, I made a leap from what you said to ranting about that other thing people have added to the Elliot Williams rumor mill.

dukiejay, that seems totally possible and understandable, but I have a sneaking suspicion there are some people out there who will crow about what a special, unique place Duke is out of one side of their mouths, then find some reason to blame Elliot's not fitting in socially on K out of the other side of their mouths... especially when we've lost 4 of 5 games seven seasons and two national championships later.

So what if he did not fit in socially? Go some where else, this is regardless the player. The kid went to Memphis and did well, cool.

 

[jamsession3]

He's wrong....in your opinion. That's the difference. You don't know, either. Your opinion is based off just that....his is based off 36 years of using a solid, fundamental approach.



I know I've chided you over the years for making some completely asinine posts....but this one is up there. How in holy hell can you even suggest something so stupid?

Dukie, you can coach a 1000 years. You are still subject to critics and explanation.

 

[Dattier]

So what if he did not fit in socially? Go some where else, this is regardless the player. The kid went to Memphis and did well, cool.

jam, you're wrong. You have no idea that not fitting in socially 'might' make him cool at Memphis. FACT.

Dukie, you can coach a 1000 years. You are still subject to critics and explanation.

jam, you're wrong. You have no idea if he can coach for 1000 years. FACT.

 

[dukiejay]

Williams was the focal point on that Memphis team. It got him a first pick. FACT.

True. But that's not what you said. You said Pastner gave him the best chance to showcase his NBA talent. That's an opinion....and one that isn't supported by anything concrete.

Coach K has had 52 players drafted into the NBA, with 31 of those happening in the first round. Pastner, on the other hand, has had three players play in the NBA, with Elliot being the only one selected in the first round. The only one. What I just listed were facts, not opinion.