"thought thread" a cashless society?

[atlkvb]

Just wondering what the Left specifically, but also believers and/or Conservatives here on the OT forum think about the idea that we are or have become the"cashless society" spoken of in Revelation? Slowly it is being eliminated. We have a Trillion dollar debt, does anyone seriously think we're actually going to repay that with real dollars?

At my Dealership, we've eliminated it(cash) we will not handle it anymore. In most major transactions (buying a house etc) it is never exchanged. Banks transfer millions, billions in fact daily without handling it. Internet transactions are completed without it ever being seen or used.

It's here...it's a fact. Is it good or bad?

To the Left and non believers, how do you handle this development? If you read Revelation this process of economic activity will eventually lead to one World Government and a new World order that will usher in the rule of the Anti-Christ.

Do you scoff at it's implications?

On the Right, what are we to make of this obvious ongoing development? Stop living? Banks are now using bio metrics (hand and/or iris readers) to identify you before making a transaction; will this lead to the dreaded "mark of the beast" where no one can buy or sell? Is that a "microchip"?

What do you do? Will you accept that? Can you afford not to?

There is no right or wrong answer here, as Revelation can be interpreted different ways to describe what's actually being mentioned on this as the article below I've linked to points out...but what are we to make of this no matter if you are either on the Left or the Right?

What is the Bible telling us about this, and how close to today's reality are we matching it?

More importantly, what are you prepared to do about it?

Scoff, or seriously consider it's current implications more seriously?

link to article:
https://americanvision.org/1725/cashless-society-sign-of-end/

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Just wondering what the Left specifically, but also believers and/or Conservatives here on the OT forum think about the idea that we are or have become the"cashless society" spoken of in Revelation? Slowly it is being eliminated. We have a Trillion dollar debt, does anyone seriously think we're actually going to repay that with real dollars?

At my Dealership, we've eliminated it(cash) we will not handle it anymore. In most major transactions (buying a house etc) it is never exchanged. Banks transfer millions, billions in fact daily without handling it. Internet transactions are completed without it ever being seen or used.

It's here...it's a fact. Is it good or bad?

To the Left and non believers, how do you handle this development? If you read Revelation this process of economic activity will eventually lead to one World Government and a new World order that will usher in the rule of the Anti-Christ.

Do you scoff at it's implications?

On the Right, what are we to make of this obvious ongoing development? Stop living? Banks are now using bio metrics (hand and/or iris readers) to identify you before making a transaction; will this lead to the dreaded "mark of the beast" where no one can buy or sell? Is that a "microchip"?

What do you do? Will you accept that? Can you afford not to?

There is no right or wrong answer here, as Revelation can be interpreted different ways to describe what's actually being mentioned on this as the article below I've linked to points out...but what are we to make of this no matter if you are either on the Left or the Right?

What is the Bible telling us about this, and how close to today's reality are we matching it?

More importantly, what are you prepared to do about it?

Scoff, or seriously consider it's current implications more seriously?

link to article:
https://americanvision.org/1725/cashless-society-sign-of-end/

I scoff.

 

[Keyser76]

It ain't cashless, ya gotta have moolah in the bank no matter what, you lost me at the revelations ****.

 

[op2]

I scoff.

In addition to scoffing I also fart in its general direction.

But seriously I don't see the big deal about this. Imagine if everybody had to use cash for every transaction. It would be a giant PITA. (PITA = Pain In The A##.) Using means other than cash is often simply much more convenient and less expensive too.

I don't know if we're going to repay our $20 trillion debt or not but if we do we're sure as heck not going to use actual physical money. Why would we? Yeah, banks transfer large sums of money all the time, what is the alternative? They'd be crazy not to.

And we're connecting this to the Bible? Really? I don't think the Bible has anything to do with it.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

In addition to scoffing I also fart in its general direction.

But seriously I don't see the big deal about this. Imagine if everybody had to use cash for every transaction. It would be a giant PITA. (PITA = Pain In The A##.) Using means other than cash is often simply much more convenient and less expensive too.

I don't know if we're going to repay our $20 trillion debt or not but if we do we're sure as heck not going to use actual physical money. Why would we? Yeah, banks transfer large sums of money all the time, what is the alternative? They'd be crazy not to.

And we're connecting this to the Bible? Really? I don't think the Bible has anything to do with it.

I never have cash on me unless I'm going to the ***** house.

 

[atlkvb]

In addition to scoffing I also fart in its general direction.

But seriously I don't see the big deal about this. Imagine if everybody had to use cash for every transaction. It would be a giant PITA. (PITA = Pain In The A##.) Using means other than cash is often simply much more convenient and less expensive too.

I don't know if we're going to repay our $20 trillion debt or not but if we do we're sure as heck not going to use actual physical money. Why would we? Yeah, banks transfer large sums of money all the time, what is the alternative? They'd be crazy not to.

And we're connecting this to the Bible? Really? I don't think the Bible has anything to do with it.

All good questions. I'm dubious of its benefits. (cashless) in many cases, nothing you purchase is ever discreet when you use alternate forms of payment, but then if you're not doing anything illegal why should it matter?

Total cash transactions are pointless and impossible when millions of dollars are involved but what happens when the electrical grid is cut off? Identity theft can't happen with cash, but it's a serious problem for us now with the "cashless" transactions.

Then again, why are we even still printing money when we have electronic access to the cash we all supposedly own?

How valuable do those electronic records become if there is no paper backing them? Suppose folks all go to the bank and demand their money? What's more valuable, those digital financial records or the actual paper cash they supposedly represent?

I don't "scoff" at it...I don't think most folks are thinking through all of the ramifications if we have no more paper or access to it which is exactly what is happening right now!

I'm not comfortable with that, but I don't know what the alternative is?

 

[atlkvb]

It ain't cashless, ya gotta have moolah in the bank no matter what, you lost me at the revelations ****.

I'm simply saying or asking how you dismiss all of that in light of how we operate financially today?

You can dismiss it, and that's fine. But what it describes is our reality today and I'm asking if we've thought of all of the ramifications if we eliminate use of paper money which we are steadily doing?

 

[MichiganHerd]

My only fear is what the hell am I supposed to use at the nudie bar? I sure as hell aren't going to stuff their muff with my American Express.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

My only fear is what the hell am I supposed to use at the nudie bar? I sure as hell aren't going to stuff their muff with my American Express.

Apple Pay

 

[atlkvb]

My only fear is what the hell am I supposed to use at the nudie bar? I sure as hell aren't going to stuff their muff with my American Express.

How do you pay for neat stuff at garage sales? What do you do if you're a drug dealer issue refundable receipts?

 

[JLW71073]

We are a long way off from a cashless society. Too many businesses rely on cash transactions (some mentioned above). Especially when you move overseas to developing countries that don't have the banking system that developed countries or even the ability to move electronic funds P2P. So, yes I scoff.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

[laughing]

I love this place. [banana]

 

[op2]

I'm simply saying or asking how you dismiss all of that in light of how we operate financially today?

You can dismiss it, and that's fine. But what it describes is our reality today and I'm asking if we've thought of all of the ramifications if we eliminate use of paper money which we are steadily doing?

There is a difference between paper money being eliminated and people using it less. People are using paper money less because better alternatives are becoming available but people are still allowed to use money as much as they like and that's not going to change anytime soon.

 

[JLW71073]

How do you pay for neat stuff at garage sales? What do you do if you're a drug dealer issue refundable receipts?

Garage sales? That's easy, PayPal would probably be your best most common option to transfer cash from one individual to another.

 

[MichiganHerd]

How do you pay for neat stuff at garage sales? What do you do if you're a drug dealer issue refundable receipts?

Garage sales. Wow, you took me back to the very last time I attempted to have one a few years ago. I won't do another one. If I can't find a buyer of my old stuff on Facebook after 24 hours, I just donate my old stuff to Goodwill or give it to a friend in need. I cannot deal with the professional garage store shoppers. They're waiting for the door to go up at 8:00 a.m., and come storming in like Black Friday shoppers heading into Best Buy. Never again.

 

[BoremanSouth]

This must mean that Hometown Hotdogs is doing to Lord's work to prevent the coming of the Anti-Christ. Thank you Hometown Hotdogs.

 

[atlkvb]

Apple Pay

I think you guys all make good points but you are missing the point of the thread.

We are moving to a cashless system. You guys are arguing for the elimination of it and they're all good reasons but the question is what happens when there is no more cash?

I don't hear anyone arguing we'll be better off when that happens and I'm suggesting there may be more problems created by that than are solved.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

Just wondering what the Left specifically, but also believers and/or Conservatives here on the OT forum think about the idea that we are or have become the"cashless society" spoken of in Revelation? Slowly it is being eliminated. We have a Trillion dollar debt, does anyone seriously think we're actually going to repay that with real dollars?

At my Dealership, we've eliminated it(cash) we will not handle it anymore. In most major transactions (buying a house etc) it is never exchanged. Banks transfer millions, billions in fact daily without handling it. Internet transactions are completed without it ever being seen or used.

It's here...it's a fact. Is it good or bad?

To the Left and non believers, how do you handle this development? If you read Revelation this process of economic activity will eventually lead to one World Government and a new World order that will usher in the rule of the Anti-Christ.

Do you scoff at it's implications?

On the Right, what are we to make of this obvious ongoing development? Stop living? Banks are now using bio metrics (hand and/or iris readers) to identify you before making a transaction; will this lead to the dreaded "mark of the beast" where no one can buy or sell? Is that a "microchip"?

What do you do? Will you accept that? Can you afford not to?

There is no right or wrong answer here, as Revelation can be interpreted different ways to describe what's actually being mentioned on this as the article below I've linked to points out...but what are we to make of this no matter if you are either on the Left or the Right?

What is the Bible telling us about this, and how close to today's reality are we matching it?

More importantly, what are you prepared to do about it?

Scoff, or seriously consider it's current implications more seriously?

link to article:
https://americanvision.org/1725/cashless-society-sign-of-end/

As a believer, I think the Book of Revelation as well as much of the Old Testament to be simply a collection of ancient stories used as an attempt to govern the masses.

 

[op2]

I think you guys all make good points but you are missing the point of the thread.

We are moving to a cashless system. You guys are arguing for the elimination of it and they're all good reasons but the question is what happens when there is no more cash?

I don't hear anyone arguing we'll be better off when that happens and I'm suggesting there may be more problems created by that than are solved.

People can use or not use cash as they wish. If we get to a no cash society it will be because nobody wants to use cash and everybody finds using other means to be better. That would be an improvement.

I'll will give a caveat that we may come to a point where almost all but not all transactions are done without cash and then society will say "Okay, we'll do away with cash" and then the few people still using it will be annoyed but they will be small in number.

I don't see how it will create more problems that it would solve. If that were the case it would be causing more problem than it solves as we go along and fewer people use cash. But it doesn't. I think it's safe to say that on the whole things are much better now because we don't use cash for everything than they would be if we did use cash for everything. Yes, we can point to a few complications where not using cash makes things worse but we can point to a whole lot more where not using cash makes things better.

 

[atlkvb]

As a believer, I think the Book of Revelation as well as much of the Old Testament to be simply a collection of ancient stories used as an attempt to govern the masses.

I know that's what a lot of Leftists and non believers think.

But I'm trying to deal with the fact that we are indeed at or close to a cashless society right now, regardless if you think that what's spoken of about it in Revelation is fiction or not?

 

[op2]

I know that's what a lot of Leftists and non believers think.

But I'm trying to deal with the fact that we are indeed at or close to a cashless society right now, regardless if you think that what's spoken of about it in Revelation is fiction or not?

I haven't read revealation. If I read it is it going to make sense or is it going to be a bunch of gobbledygook that people can interpret any of a million ways with your warning about a cashless society being just one of them?

 

[atlkvb]

People can use or not use cash as they wish. If we get to a no cash society it will be because nobody wants to use cash and everybody finds using other means to be better. That would be an improvement.

I'll will give a caveat that we may come to a point where almost all but not all transactions are done without cash and then society will say "Okay, we'll do away with cash" and then the few people still using it will be annoyed but they will be small in number.

I don't see how it will create more problems that it would solve. If that were the case it would be causing more problem than it solves as we go along and fewer people use cash. But it doesn't. I think it's safe to say that on the whole things are much better now because we don't use cash for everything than they would be if we did use cash for everything. Yes, we can point to a few complications where not using cash makes things worse but we can point to a whole lot more where not using cash makes things better.

Really? You see no negative consequences to going totally cashless?

All I'm saying is we are close to it now, and while I'm OK with that as a matter of pragmatic reality, I'm trying to ask if the warnings against that in the Bible have any merit?

I think they do. But as I said I don't have an alternative. That's what bothers me.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

I know that's what a lot of Leftists and non believers think.

But I'm trying to deal with the fact that we are indeed at or close to a cashless society right now, regardless if you think that what's spoken of about it in Revelation is fiction or not?

I am neither a leftist nor non-believer. But I don't care what is in the book of Revelation. To me it is pure fiction.

 

[atlkvb]

I haven't read revealation. If I read it is it going to make sense or is it going to be a bunch of gobbledygook that people can interpret any of a million ways with your warning about a cashless society being just one of them?

Read the article I linked to opening this thread Op2. There are ways to interpret what's in that, and what it actually means.

I'm asking myself what I do as an alternative if or once all cash is eliminated as it appears we are certainly headed?

 

[atlkvb]

I am neither a leftist nor non-believer. But I don't care what is in the book of Revelation. To me it is pure fiction.

I know, but the cashless society it specifically speaks of and warns against is here, virtually anyway.

Cash of course is still around, but for how much longer?

Then what?

 

[op2]

Read the article I linked to opening this thread Op2. There are ways to interpret what's in that, and what it actually means.

I'm asking myself what I do as an alternative if or once all cash is eliminated as it appears we are certainly headed?

Cash is definitely not going to be eliminated for the foreseeable future. Maybe it will be eliminated further out in the foreseeable future but only if almost nobody wants to use cash anyway.

I don't see a story here. What if people decide someday they no longer want to use X and they find life more convenient using something other than X? Then they'll stop using X. What's the problem? Whatever negatives you see of not using X obviously won't be a big deal to people if/when it happens because they will stop their usage of X voluntarily.

 

[op2]

I know, but the cashless society it specifically speaks of and warns against is here, virtually anyway.

Cash of course is still around, but for how much longer?

Then what?

How much longer? Twenty years at least, probably much more. You act like cash is the incandescent light bulb or the rotary phone. Any ATM or bank will give you cash and just about any vendor you buy from will accept it as payment. What's the problem?

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

I know, but the cashless society it specifically speaks of and warns against is here, virtually anyway.

Cash of course is still around, but for how much longer?

Then what?

It is the reason I am buying gold and silver even at the risk of loss in value. While not a full-fledged prepper, I think it is smart to have cash, food/water, precious metals, and ammo to last at least a month.

I am not sure we reach that point in our lifetimes where we are completely cashless. (I am 54) But it will happen.

 

[atlkvb]

It is the reason I am buying gold and silver even at the risk of loss in value. While not a full-fledged prepper, I think it is smart to have cash, food/water, precious metals, and ammo to last at least a month.

I am not sure we reach that point in our lifetimes where we are completely cashless. (I am 54) But it will happen.

I'd agree with this. What you're doing is smart. I think it's the best defense for when cash is declared "obsolete".

Remember that episode from the Twilight Zone? The "obsolete Man"?

That was 50 years ago, and here we are:

 

[op2]

I'd agree with this. What you're doing is smart. I think it's the best defense for when cash is declared "obsolete".

Remember that episode from the Twilight Zone? The "obsolete Man"?

That was 50 years ago, and here we are:

I don't understand your obsession with this. Cash won't be "declared obsolete," rather society as a whole will render it obsolete as they use it less and less. There is nothing bad or wrong about people abandoning X in favor of Y. Was the rotary phone declared obsolete? Or the VCR? Or the 8-track?

Money is a tool. At one time it didn't exist and people use other means of exchange such as barter. Then people started using money and it was a big improvement so people used it more and more. Was barter declared obsolete? No, it just gradually became irrelevant.

Money has served us well for a long time but now we're finding better tools than money and thus money isn't used as much. So what? Why are you even spending time on this?

It used to be that people were paid in cash. Then employers started paying them in checks. Was that a big drama point?

Then instead of paying workers in checks, employers started depositing the money straight into the bank accounts of the workers. And the workers would take cash from their bank account and buy stuff.

Then checks came along and instead of getting cash from their bank account they'd write checks.

Then instead of checks for everything they'd use a credit card and get one bill per month and write one check for it.

Now some are just using Apple Pay or whatever else there is so that when they buy food from the store, say, the money is moved from their bank account into the account of the grocery store.

All of this is nothing but better and better and better ways of doing things. There is no issue at all here. I think the only reason you think anything of it at all is the Book of Revealations thing.

 

[atlkvb]

Cash won't be "declared obsolete," rather society as a whole will render it obsolete as they use it less and less.

Again you miss the point of the thread (in my opinion) I'm not denying your scenario...I'm arguing if we're not already in it (cashless society) we're surely headed that way.

My questions are strictly based on if it's a good development, or if we should heed the warnings specifically mentioned against it found in Revelation?

Even if you scoff at Revelation, there is no denying that it is a fact of our lives right now, and becoming more common. What will life be like with no more cash? Are you unconcerned about it, or just see it as inevitable?

I'm not sure, but Revelation explains it in great detail and I don't like what it says. However, we are nevertheless here, and it is too just as it is spoken of in Revelation so what are we going to do about it?

THAT'S what I'm asking, and thinking and trying to provoke honest discussion about?

At this point it really doesn't matter if you believe Revelation or not. It's here now...so what's next? What it says will happen in that book, or something bigger and better?

I'm asking because I'm not sure, but I know I'm not ready for what's next once cash is eliminated as it (Revelation) says it surely will be.

Am I "worried" No.

Concerned? Hell yea! I don't want to take that "mark" where I can't buy or sell anything.

No thanks!

 

[atlkvb]

What's the problem?

The alternative.

See you're dismissing what Revelation says is going to happen once cash is gone...I'm not. I'm frustrated I don't an alternative, and you are certainly free to dismiss what Revelation warns against.

I'm saying we're here. So whatever Revelation says about it is not speculation anymore, it's our present day reality and I'm honestly not sure we all realize it.

I know I don't have a clue how to get around it (cashless transactions), and it's not a pleasant thought.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Just wondering what the Left specifically, but also believers and/or Conservatives here on the OT forum think about the idea that we are or have become the"cashless society" spoken of in Revelation? Slowly it is being eliminated. We have a Trillion dollar debt, does anyone seriously think we're actually going to repay that with real dollars?

At my Dealership, we've eliminated it(cash) we will not handle it anymore. In most major transactions (buying a house etc) it is never exchanged. Banks transfer millions, billions in fact daily without handling it. Internet transactions are completed without it ever being seen or used.

It's here...it's a fact. Is it good or bad?

To the Left and non believers, how do you handle this development? If you read Revelation this process of economic activity will eventually lead to one World Government and a new World order that will usher in the rule of the Anti-Christ.

Do you scoff at it's implications?

On the Right, what are we to make of this obvious ongoing development? Stop living? Banks are now using bio metrics (hand and/or iris readers) to identify you before making a transaction; will this lead to the dreaded "mark of the beast" where no one can buy or sell? Is that a "microchip"?

What do you do? Will you accept that? Can you afford not to?

There is no right or wrong answer here, as Revelation can be interpreted different ways to describe what's actually being mentioned on this as the article below I've linked to points out...but what are we to make of this no matter if you are either on the Left or the Right?

What is the Bible telling us about this, and how close to today's reality are we matching it?

More importantly, what are you prepared to do about it?

Scoff, or seriously consider it's current implications more seriously?

link to article:
https://americanvision.org/1725/cashless-society-sign-of-end/

First off, that a cashless society is a sign of the end times is just that. There's no sign of a United States of America in Revelation, either, so there's that.

I don't like it because it allows the government to manipulate currency by going to negative interest rates and taking our money.

 

[mule_eer]

It is the reason I am buying gold and silver even at the risk of loss in value. While not a full-fledged prepper, I think it is smart to have cash, food/water, precious metals, and ammo to last at least a month.

I am not sure we reach that point in our lifetimes where we are completely cashless. (I am 54) But it will happen.

Tobacco and booze are better investments for a collapsed economy. No one needs gold, but lots of folks need nicotine and alcohol.

 

[atlkvb]

First off, that a cashless society is a sign of the end times is just that. There's no sign of a United States of America in Revelation, either, so there's that.

I don't like it because it allows the government to manipulate currency by going to negative interest rates and taking our money.

You telling me they're not already doing this TarHeelEer?

 

[op2]

The alternative.

See you're dismissing what Revelation says is going to happen once cash is gone...I'm not. I'm frustrated I don't an alternative, and you are certainly free to dismiss what Revelation warns against.

I'm saying we're here. So whatever Revelation says about it is not speculation anymore, it's our present day reality and I'm honestly not sure we all realize it.

I know I don't have a clue how to get around it (cashless transactions), and it's not a pleasant thought.

Admittedly I am completely dismissing Revealations. If Revealations somehow magically tells what we should do and what will happen then I will miss it completely.

That aside, as we've moved more and more towards using payment methods other than cash things have gotten better and better because people are finding the alternative they choose better than cash. If they didn't find the alternative better than cash then they'd continue using cash. If they continue using the alternative more and more then that means cash will become less and less relevant because they PREFER the alternative. For the people that don't use cash now, it's not imposed on them, rather they PREFER not using cash.

If X becomes obsolete because people start using Y because they find Y to be better than how exactly is it a problem when people no longer use X? It's like going back to when 8-tracks were being used less and less and asking what happens when nobody uses 8-tracks anymore. What happens when nobody uses 8-tracks anymore is that people will listen to music via some other medium that they prefer over 8-tracks.

 

[atlkvb]

Admittedly I am completely dismissing Revealations. If Revealations somehow magically tells what we should do and what will happen then I will miss it completely.

That aside, as we've moved more and more towards using payment methods other than cash things have gotten better and better because people are finding the alternative they choose better than cash. If they didn't find the alternative better than cash then they'd continue using cash. If they continue using the alternative more and more then that means cash will become less and less relevant because they PREFER the alternative. For the people that don't use cash now, it's not imposed on them, rather they PREFER not using cash.

If X becomes obsolete because people start using Y because they find Y to be better than how exactly is it a problem when people no longer use X? It's like going back to when 8-tracks were being used less and less and asking what happens when nobody uses 8-tracks anymore. What happens when nobody uses 8-tracks anymore is that people will listen to music via some other medium that they prefer over 8-tracks.

I understand what you're saying Op2 and I honestly don't disagree with you from a pragmatic point of view. But I can't imagine anything worse than having your identity stolen or worse your bank account cleared out because someone managed to get a hold of your personal information?

That wasn't a problem with cash, unless someone actually robbed your bank with your cash in it!

We're not helpless under a cashless society as Revelation gives us instructions on how we are to conduct business without having that "mark" of the beast. But I still worry how easily we will be able to conduct business without it or cash or whatever replaces the digital chip we could all have embedded in us so that we can buy and sell.

You will have no privacy or annonymity not to mention every transaction you make will be stored and/or monitored somewhere. It's just an overall creepy feeling for me but as I say there really isn't a hell of a lot I can do about it except stay in Faith and be discerning.

 

[atlkvb]

If they continue using the alternative more and more then that means cash will become less and less relevant because they PREFER the alternative. For the people that don't use cash now, it's not imposed on them, rather they PREFER not using cash.

In some cases Op2, even if you preferred using cash you can't! That's my point.

 

[op2]

In some cases Op2, even if you preferred using cash you can't! That's my point.

In whatever cases you can't use cash even though you'd prefer to I think there are probably good reasons, such as verifying the money is actually yours (which you can do with an electronic transaction but not if you bring a pile of cash).

 

[atlkvb]

In whatever cases you can't use cash even though you'd prefer to I think there are probably good reasons, such as verifying the money is actually yours (which you can do with an electronic transaction but not if you bring a pile of cash).

Some folks just don't want what they're buying known for good reasons. At my Dealership, we don't accept cash. People get ticked. Some gas stations here in atlanta won't accept cash. (they don't want to get robbed) Some physicians won't accept it because they want a record of payment in case of a lawsuit.Some banks won't accept it, they don't want to try to count it or sort it out for counterfeiting. Many companies won't handle it because of the expense of counting and storing it.

Uncle Sam doesn't issue cash entitlement vouchers....not enough paper to print. The IMF doesn't use it, neither do stock exchanges or international investment houses, commodities exchanges, brokerage agencies or anywhere large sums of money are transmitted internationally. Nations don't even use it, except for Obama and the Iranians!