To be perfectly honest, I never followed cabinet member confirmation hearings as much as this yr....

[Original Mountaineer1]

But regarding DeVos.... How can a US Senator that participated in her hearings possibly confirm her? Her performance was horrid. She didn't seen to prepare at all. She has little if any experience with the US Public Education system. Her record with Detroit's Charter Schools is mixed. She is marginally qualified at best if not completely unqualified.

We need change in this area. Our public schools are dysfunctional in many areas. I actually liked the pick originally. Maybe she is amazing. Maybe after her 4 years, the US education system is the model for the world. Who knows. But if you, as a senator, are taking the process seriously, how do you confirm this nominee? What would be wrong with asking Trump to pick somebody else for this role?

 

[WVPATX]

But regarding DeVos.... How can a US Senator that participated in her hearings possibly confirm her? Her performance was horrid. She didn't seen to prepare at all. She has little if any experience with the US Public Education system. Her record with Detroit's Charter Schools is mixed. She is marginally qualified at best if not completely unqualified.

We need change in this area. Our public schools are dysfunctional in many areas. I actually liked the pick originally. Maybe she is amazing. Maybe after her 4 years, the US education system is the model for the world. Who knows. But if you, as a senator, are taking the process seriously, how do you confirm this nominee? What would be wrong with asking Trump to pick somebody else for this role?

I detested many of Obama's picks, particularly Holder. But he was President and generally deserves to get his team in place. If she fails, Trump fails.

 

[rog1187]

We need change in this area. Our public schools are dysfunctional in many areas.

You hit the nail on the head for most that outright like her. As I have been trying to explain to the former and current educators I know - what do you expect when everyone it seems to think the current set-up is bad and someone with different views comes into the position? I don't know if she'll work put or not, but I can tell you what we're doing isn't working...and to just throw more money at it won't solve it either.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

I detested many of Obama's picks, particularly Holder. But he was President and generally deserves to get his team in place. If she fails, Trump fails.

With just about every state education association working against her, she is doomed from the start. Even my conservative sister-in-law teacher shook her head on this one

 

[WVPATX]

With just about every state education association working against her, she is doomed from the start. Even my conservative sister-in-law teacher shook her head on this one

My conservative sister who taught for one 35 years loves her. She detested the inability to fire bad teachers and administrators. She detested the rules placed on her ability to discipline in the classroom. She knows the system is completely broken. Competition is a great remedy especially for inner city minority children.

Like I said, I thought Holder would be a disaster (I was right) but Obama generally deserves to get his picks for his team.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

You hit the nail on the head for most that outright like her. As I have been trying to explain to the former and current educators I know - what do you expect when everyone it seems to think the current set-up is bad and someone with different views comes into the position? I don't know if she'll work put or not, but I can tell you what we're doing isn't working...and to just throw more money at it won't solve it either.

I agree 100% with Trump's position here. But if you are going to do a 180 on education, pick somebody who is at least respected by the establishment. All the teachers I know teach in high performing districts. They have no understanding of the issues faced by poorer or less competent school districts. Washington DC is an example. They brought in a young, bright thinker to improve schools and the teacher's union pushed her out. Teachers refused to be held accountable in this case.

 

[TarHeelEer]

respected by the establishment

Noone anti-establishment will be respected by the establishment.

 

[Airport]

I agree 100% with Trump's position here. But if you are going to do a 180 on education, pick somebody who is at least respected by the establishment. All the teachers I know teach in high performing districts. They have no understanding of the issues faced by poorer or less competent school districts. Washington DC is an example. They brought in a young, bright thinker to improve schools and the teacher's union pushed her out. Teachers refused to be held accountable in this case.

The teacher's union doe not want to lose funding, plain and simple. They do not care about the children. They only care that they get their piece of the pie and that they are not the least bit interested in accountability. For you to say you don't understand, try to understand that the senators and congressman want the endorsement of the union and want their money for their campaign chest.I believe that person you speak of in DC was a big proponent of charter schools and she was castigated if I remember correctly. For some reason, I think she was oriental.Is that correct? Rich people take on all sorts of things, her's happens to be charter schools to compete agaisnt the under performing public schools. She will not so worse than what has been going on. She might make the public teachers work a little harder to keep their funding.

 

[jjwv_mu_rivals]

I'm a public school educator. My problem with all this is the attitudes of people lumping all teachers in to one category. All I hear is "bad teachers". What about the good ones? I then hear about teachers refusing to be held accountable. I don't have a problem with that. However, if you strip tenure from teachers what do you get? I don't think many see it because they don't see what goes on inside a building.

For example, I guess I'm an "old school" type of teacher. I teach US and World History. I lecture, and do it quite a lot. The state assesses me by a blind standardized test and I must cover thousands of years of history in a short period of time. Lecturing is the most time efficient way of getting this accomplished. However, the word "lecture" is a very bad word these days in public education settings. The administrators push "fun" activities to educate. I have been told several times that my kids should be able to move around, play a game, make education "fun". My response has always been: I am held accountable on what information they are able to learn, not by how much fun they have.

My point being simply this: If you take tenure away from teachers, then administrators who do not like my approach could simply get rid of me because of my teaching style. (I would like to add, and brag, that my test scores have been top 10% in my state....proving lecture still works)

I think the federal government should be out of education completely. I think that states should allow local districts to monitor the education process. Every community is different. Empowering the administrators is not the answer, from the local principals to the state superintendents. That just creates a very large, politically and philosophically driven problem. Most administrators have been out of the classroom for years, even decades. Yet they have the best solution to solve education? Teachers are in the trenches daily.......

Now, off my soapbox. Have a great day!

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

However, if you strip tenure from teachers what do you get? I don't think many see it because they don't see what goes on inside a building.

A competitive marketplace where performance and results matter? Basically, the way it is for the rest of us who go to work and have to perform or face the consequences of poor performance.

 

[WVPATX]

I'm a public school educator. My problem with all this is the attitudes of people lumping all teachers in to one category. All I hear is "bad teachers". What about the good ones? I then hear about teachers refusing to be held accountable. I don't have a problem with that. However, if you strip tenure from teachers what do you get? I don't think many see it because they don't see what goes on inside a building.

For example, I guess I'm an "old school" type of teacher. I teach US and World History. I lecture, and do it quite a lot. The state assesses me by a blind standardized test and I must cover thousands of years of history in a short period of time. Lecturing is the most time efficient way of getting this accomplished. However, the word "lecture" is a very bad word these days in public education settings. The administrators push "fun" activities to educate. I have been told several times that my kids should be able to move around, play a game, make education "fun". My response has always been: I am held accountable on what information they are able to learn, not by how much fun they have.

My point being simply this: If you take tenure away from teachers, then administrators who do not like my approach could simply get rid of me because of my teaching style. (I would like to add, and brag, that my test scores have been top 10% in my state....proving lecture still works)

I think the federal government should be out of education completely. I think that states should allow local districts to monitor the education process. Every community is different. Empowering the administrators is not the answer, from the local principals to the state superintendents. That just creates a very large, politically and philosophically driven problem. Most administrators have been out of the classroom for years, even decades. Yet they have the best solution to solve education? Teachers are in the trenches daily.......

Now, off my soapbox. Have a great day!

With all due respect, I have never understood the issue of tenure. I worked for 30 years and could be fired at almost any time. I survived, even thrived because I knew I had to perform or possibly face the axe.

Why teachers feel the need for the privilege of tenure is just something I don't comprehend. It seems to me it opens the doorway to poor performance, laziness, unpreparedness, etc. Every worker should be evaluated at least annually (we were evaluated quarterly and our company had over 200,000 employees). Surely, such evaluations can be handled in our school systems.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Her performance was horrid. She didn't seen to prepare at all. She has little if any experience with the US Public Education system. She is marginally qualified at best if not completely unqualified.

She knew she didn't have to prepare. She knew her lack of experience was irrelevant.

 

[jjwv_mu_rivals]

With all due respect, I have never understood the issue of tenure. I worked for 30 years and could be fired at almost any time. I survived, even thrived because I knew I had to perform or possibly face the axe.

Why teachers feel the need for the privilege of tenure is just something I don't comprehend. It seems to me it opens the doorway to poor performance, laziness, unpreparedness, etc. Every worker should be evaluated at least annually (we were evaluated quarterly and our company had over 200,000 employees). Surely, such evaluations can be handled in our school systems.

We (Teachers) can be fired. We are evaluated between 2-8 times formally each year, plus about a dozen times of "unannounced" drop ins from the administrators. If our evaluations are not up to par, we get put on a correction plan and must show proof (along with more observations) to show progress. Then if we don't, we are put on another plan and have 1-year to show improvement. That includes tenured teachers. So, the entire argument of "not being able to fire teachers" is ridiculous and something that people that are outside of the field say because they don't truly know the truth.

And personally, I like tenure simply because I feel like I have the freedom to educate my way and don't feel the pressures from these administrators who come in and think they know exactly how to run a classroom. I have nothing to worry about, I do my job and my scores are very strong, but if tenure is stripped then you bring politics in to the classroom setting. If people don't believe that, again, you just don't truly know what it's like these days. The power struggle over a teacher's classroom is beyond my abilities to describe.

Add to that the fact that we are evaluated by a blind test (History is truly that, a BLIND test with very vague curriculum objectives that covers 1,000 years of history), relying on students to be motivated to take education seriously, and parental involvement that is positive and not negative. It's not easy.

 

[Mntneer]

With just about every state education association working against her, she is doomed from the start. Even my conservative sister-in-law teacher shook her head on this one

That's because she's a school choice proponent.

The sheer meltdown over her appointment is mind bottling.

Then again, I'd do away with the Dept of Ed all together and take it's $60 billion dollar budget and pump into resources for states and students.

 

[WVU82_rivals]

 

[WVU82_rivals]

DeVos is a billionaire...

the lobbyists won't be able to buy her either... like Trump


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-16/

Between 2007 and 2012, 200 of America’s most politically active corporations spent a combined $5.8 billion (with a B) on federal lobbying and campaign contributions. What they gave pales compared to what those same corporations got: $4.4 trillion (with a T) in federal business and support.

Putting that in context, the $4.4 trillion total represents two-thirds of the $6.5 trillion that individual taxpayers paid into the federal treasury. Said otherwise, by "spending: a paltry $6 billion to bribe the US government, or just a little more than what GM will spend on stock buybacks alone, US corporations are getting the direct benefit of two-thirds of US taxpayers' labor!

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

DeVos is a billionaire...

the lobbyists won't be able to buy her either... like Trump


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-16/

Between 2007 and 2012, 200 of America’s most politically active corporations spent a combined $5.8 billion (with a B) on federal lobbying and campaign contributions. What they gave pales compared to what those same corporations got: $4.4 trillion (with a T) in federal business and support.

Putting that in context, the $4.4 trillion total represents two-thirds of the $6.5 trillion that individual taxpayers paid into the federal treasury. Said otherwise, by "spending: a paltry $6 billion to bribe the US government, or just a little more than what GM will spend on stock buybacks alone, US corporations are getting the direct benefit of two-thirds of US taxpayers' labor!

She bought a cabinet seat....from the guy that said he was going to drain the swamp. [winking]

 

[Popeer]

That's because she's a school choice proponent.

The sheer meltdown over her appointment is mind bottling.

Then again, I'd do away with the Dept of Ed all together and take it's $60 billion dollar budget and pump into resources for states and students.

"School choice" is the bigots' buzzword for "separate but equal." The Court took that away when I was a baby and they've been trying to get it back ever since. Proponents of "school choice" mean choice for children of affluent Whites, not the struggling student populations who need the most support.

Mind bottling? The education system failed you, didn't it?

#3, really? I thought throwing money at it wasn't the answer.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

"School choice" is the bigots' buzzword for "separate but equal." The Court took that away when I was a baby and they've been trying to get it back ever since. Proponents of "school choice" mean choice for children of affluent Whites, not the struggling student populations who need the most support.

Mind bottling? The education system failed you, didn't it?

#3, really? I thought throwing money at it wasn't the answer.

I have tried to help him in the past with the "mind bottling" phrase.

 

[dave]

She bought a cabinet seat....from the guy that said he was going to drain the swamp. [winking]

That is logically speaking one of the dumbest comments you have ever mad and you say stupid **** every day. Why would she buy a cabinet seat? Are you really that stupid?

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

That is logically speaking one of the dumbest comments you have ever mad and you say stupid **** every day. Why would she buy a cabinet seat? Are you really that stupid?

I owned your *** today. Tell us more about the EPA implementing the Stream Protection Rule. [roll] And how it's "garbage".

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I owned your *** today. Tell us more about the EPA implementing the Stream Protection Rule. [roll] And how it's "garbage".

You're a child. And, no, you didn't.

Tell us more about how Trump won't get the Dakota pipeline built.

 

[dave]

I owned your *** today. Tell us more about the EPA implementing the Stream Protection Rule. [roll] And how it's "garbage".

Tell me again how a billionaire bought a cabinet seat so she could work long hours for much less pay and have to give up control of her investments to a blind trust. You stupid little girl. Is the AG still fired?

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

That's because she's a school choice proponent.

The sheer meltdown over her appointment is mind bottling.

Then again, I'd do away with the Dept of Ed all together and take it's $60 billion dollar budget and pump into resources for states and students.

You may or may not recall but I was pro-DeVos until she showed up at her confirmation hearing like it was some sort of country club event. If she doesn't give a rat's arse about the process, the need for preparation, and the demonstrate the ability to take the subject seriously, I don't want her. Pick another conservative that actually understands our education issues in this country.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

You're a child. And, no, you didn't.

Yeah.....I did....and it was very easy.

The stream protection rule was the worst rule in the history of the EPA.

Back it up with facts. Cite some sources. I thought you designed where to place cones on a roadway (your own words). What do you do for a living and how would you know from experience?

the rule was established by the Office of Surface Mining Reclamation and Enforcement, an agency in the Department of the Interior, not the EPA.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. What an idiot.

Again, no facts, just name calling. Typical dave.

 

[Popeer]

The teacher's union doe not want to lose funding, plain and simple. They do not care about the children. They only care that they get their piece of the pie and that they are not the least bit interested in accountability. For you to say you don't understand, try to understand that the senators and congressman want the endorsement of the union and want their money for their campaign chest.I believe that person you speak of in DC was a big proponent of charter schools and she was castigated if I remember correctly. For some reason, I think she was oriental.Is that correct? Rich people take on all sorts of things, her's happens to be charter schools to compete agaisnt the under performing public schools. She will not so worse than what has been going on. She might make the public teachers work a little harder to keep their funding.

DC actually has some pretty good charter schools -- but they're public charter schools, not what DeVos an her handlers have in mind. And itt's true that the teachers' union didn't like Michelle Rhee (Trump asked her to be Secretary of Ed before Bannon remembered DeVos and her family's money, but Rhee turned him down) but it wasn't so much the teachers as the embedded corruption throughout other parts of the system -- admin and staff who got paid out the back door even though they would only show up for work a few hours a week (sometimes only a few hours a month), contractors paid but no work performed while the buildings literally fell down around students, that sort of thing. And she wasn't the first one to try to clean up that mess -- DCPS went through three in about five years before she was brought in. Somehow I doubt Betsy DeVos is going to do much to address those sorts of problems, but if bears are a threat, she's your man.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

Tell me again how a billionaire bought a cabinet seat so she could work long hours for much less pay and have to give up control of her investments to a blind trust. You stupid little girl. Is the AG still fired?

Based on the fact that she didn't bother to prepare for her hearing, I doubt she works long hours doing anything. What would happen if you and I showed up for a job interview that unprepared?

 

[dave]

Yeah.....I did....and it was very easy.

I find it interesting that you are changing the subject away from your ridiculous claim that a billionaire "bought" a cabinet seat. I think everyone knows why you are changing the subject little lady.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

The teacher's union doe not want to lose funding, plain and simple. They do not care about the children. They only care that they get their piece of the pie and that they are not the least bit interested in accountability. For you to say you don't understand, try to understand that the senators and congressman want the endorsement of the union and want their money for their campaign chest.I believe that person you speak of in DC was a big proponent of charter schools and she was castigated if I remember correctly. For some reason, I think she was oriental.Is that correct? Rich people take on all sorts of things, her's happens to be charter schools to compete agaisnt the under performing public schools. She will not so worse than what has been going on. She might make the public teachers work a little harder to keep their funding.

Yes the Asian lady. I seem to recall she was all about holding teachers accountable. The union didn't want that. My mixed race niece attends school in DC. Fortunately she is in a Charter School that I believe is public as the parents pay nothing for her to attend. The school's student body is pretty diverse. As you can imagine, the competition to get a seat at these schools is fierce and maybe he difference between life and death for some kids.

I am actually pro-charter school but not at the expense of the kids who lack the opportunity to attend.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

I find it interesting that you are changing the subject away from your ridiculous claim that a billionaire "bought" a cabinet seat. I think everyone knows why you are changing the subject little lady.

I'm not changing the subject. She bought her seat. Only a moron can't see it. Most unqualified cabinet member in history.

I think you are changing the subject to hide the fact that you have no clue what you are talking about on the Stream Protection Rule. Damn the EPA. [laughing]

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

I find it interesting that you are changing the subject away from your ridiculous claim that a billionaire "bought" a cabinet seat. I think everyone knows why you are changing the subject little lady.

So you don't think her very generous donations to the GOP and specific house and senate candidates had any impact on her selection?

 

[bornaneer]

With just about every state education association working against her, she is doomed from the start.

These union state association's would oppose ANYONE Trump picked for the position. And anyone that thinks our nations children are NOT getting short-changed is living in la la land. She needs to be given a chance because any fresh approach is better than what we now have. Vouchers are the way to go.......Lets give the less financially able the SAME chance as those that can choose a better school.

 

[bornaneer]

I'm not changing the subject. She bought her seat. Only a moron can't see it. Most unqualified cabinet member in history.

I think you are changing the subject to hide the fact that you have no clue what you are talking about on the Stream Protection Rule. Damn the EPA. [laughing]

She bought her seat.......for what? Only a moron would make such a claim. You don't know jack-**** about her qualifications or the qualifications of the the thousands of the cabinet members we have had.

 

[Airport]

Yes the Asian lady. I seem to recall she was all about holding teachers accountable. The union didn't want that. My mixed race niece attends school in DC. Fortunately she is in a Charter School that I believe is public as the parents pay nothing for her to attend. The school's student body is pretty diverse. As you can imagine, the competition to get a seat at these schools is fierce and maybe he difference between life and death for some kids.

I am actually pro-charter school but not at the expense of the kids who lack the opportunity to attend.

Under Devos, public schools that under perform, would lose funding, that funding would got to providing underpriviligded children an opportunity to attend the charter school. This is sorta equal to giving vets a credit card to go get medical care outside the under performing VA system. This a tangible problem that some rich person has taken on, not some make believe ice shelves are melting and polar bears are drowning problem that elites seem to be more concerned with than real problems.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

That is logically speaking one of the dumbest comments you have ever mad and you say stupid **** every day. Why would she buy a cabinet seat? Are you really that stupid?

Ego?

 

[MountaineerWV]

Yes the Asian lady. I seem to recall she was all about holding teachers accountable. The union didn't want that. My mixed race niece attends school in DC. Fortunately she is in a Charter School that I believe is public as the parents pay nothing for her to attend. The school's student body is pretty diverse. As you can imagine, the competition to get a seat at these schools is fierce and maybe he difference between life and death for some kids.

I am actually pro-charter school but not at the expense of the kids who lack the opportunity to attend.

Are you serious? You think it was about "holding teachers accountable"? Do you not know that she was caught in a CHEATING scandal????? Had nothing to do with teachers being held accountable. Had everything to do with her own corruption and her being held accountable.

 

[bornaneer]

Compared to district schools nationally, charter schools enroll a higher percentage of low-income and minority students.

 

[bornaneer]

Are you serious? You think it was about "holding teachers accountable"? Do you not know that she was caught in a CHEATING scandal????? Had nothing to do with teachers being held accountable. Had everything to do with her own corruption and her being held accountable.

WRONG!!!!!
In 2012, District of Columbia's inspector general conducted an investigation at Noyes Education Campus, and based on that investigation, it concluded "investigators found no evidence to corroborate these allegations", and that there was "no evidence of criminal activity or widespread cheating on the DC CAS exams"
In 2013 the U.S. Department of Education released the results of their investigation finding that there was no evidence of cheating in the D.C. public schools.

 

[dave]

I'm not changing the subject. She bought her seat. Only a moron can't see it. Most unqualified cabinet member in history.

I think you are changing the subject to hide the fact that you have no clue what you are talking about on the Stream Protection Rule. Damn the EPA. [laughing]

How can I be changing the subject when I am talking about the subject of the thread and someone else keeps bringing up something from a different thread?

 

[MountaineerWV]

WRONG!!!!!
In 2012, District of Columbia's inspector general conducted an investigation at Noyes Education Campus, and based on that investigation, it concluded "investigators found no evidence to corroborate these allegations", and that there was "no evidence of criminal activity or widespread cheating on the DC CAS exams"
In 2013 the U.S. Department of Education released the results of their investigation finding that there was no evidence of cheating in the D.C. public schools.

So, you believe the investigation in to this? But not on Hillary? Gotcha! You can believe whatever you want, but she doctored or had others doctor the tests to show improvement. The "missing memo".......