Thibodeau took the Knicks the closest to the Finals they’ve been in 30 years. He’s 67, hopefully he will retire and live happily ever after.
Tom Thibodeau fired. Do the Knicks go after Dan Hurley?
- Thread starter USARMYWILDCAT
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The reason Curry worked so well is he had all NBA defeinive studs in Klay and Draymond to work their defensive system. Not to mention during their best years the also had Igoudala who was a defensive monster, along with prime Durant. They even had Shawn Livingston for defense as well off the bench. In theory Bridges and OG should allow that but they haven’t so far. KAT is a definite weakness defensively but he’s not that bad that you can’t win a ship with him.
I love KAT as a former Wildcat. He’s one of the best big men we’ve ever had play here.
In the playoffs, I saw an older unmotivated player that look defeated.
He has issues but he’s being blamed for way too much. Brunson is even more of a defensive liability. That stats bear it out, their offensive efficiency takes a dive with Brunson on the bench but their defense improves so much they are still +10 better without him. I still contend Brunson works much better as a #2. Someone who can take over when needed but can’t carry a team to a title. He’s a Pippen to a Jordan. Someone who can lead a great team to a finals or SF appearance yearly but won’t win.
KAT was the only Knicks player I believe had a positive +‐ across the entire series, or something like that. He was fine. He has his limitations but hes not why they lost.
The problem is that Thibs has inflated win counts every single year, because he forces his starters to play more minutes while the other team's bench is in. Which is great to add wins and get a higher seed. But it has three very very big drawbacks. 1. It burns the team out come playoffs and we've seen this two years in a row now. 2. It gives a false representation of who the better team is (if Indiana played their stars more, would they have been the higher seed?), and 3. The bench is unprepared.
We've seen this from Thibs since the Derrick Rose days in Chicago. I commend him for where he got the Knicks to, but they needed to go a different direction. Knicks almost didnt make it out of the 1st round. They really kind of regressed this year after moving off of Donte and Randle. Maybe Mikal and KAT will get better and gel.. but this wasn't really THAT good of a Knicks season. They caught Boston dicking around and then Tatum got injured. They sort of backdoored into the ECF.
They need someone who will use the bench and develope them, and force a little more defense out of its two stars.
The problem is that Thibs has inflated win counts every single year, because he forces his starters to play more minutes while the other team's bench is in. Which is great to add wins and get a higher seed. But it has three very very big drawbacks. 1. It burns the team out come playoffs and we've seen this two years in a row now. 2. It gives a false representation of who the better team is (if Indiana played their stars more, would they have been the higher seed?), and 3. The bench is unprepared.
We've seen this from Thibs since the Derrick Rose days in Chicago. I commend him for where he got the Knicks to, but they needed to go a different direction. Knicks almost didnt make it out of the 1st round. They really kind of regressed this year after moving off of Donte and Randle. Maybe Mikal and KAT will get better and gel.. but this wasn't really THAT good of a Knicks season. They caught Boston dicking around and then Tatum got injured. They sort of backdoored into the ECF.
They need someone who will use the bench and develope them, and force a little more defense out of its two stars.
There issue is the salary cap, and the resources they used to get Bridges and OG. It was just a little too much salary and assets to get a deep and serviceable bench in the 2nd apron CBA era. I don’t see any coach who will come in and develop the bench pieces they have to be serviceable unless they get lucky the next 2 years and draft some guys who fell or weren’t rated as high as they should have been. They are lucky McBride is way underpaid because he will definitely leave when eligible. They will have to get some old vets like Paul who wanna win a ship and who will play for league minimum at the end of their career now.
I am not much into the NBA; try keeping up with UK guys mostly. Firing this guy is one of the reasons I am turned away from pro sports; just all business.
Looking back at players like Peyton Manning who did everything for his team and city and in the end, he was expendable.
Like college players moving around whirr the money is, no loyalty.
The Knick coach did more form them then any coach has in the last 20 years and he gets fired.
Screw it and just use AI to coach these damn teams.
Looking back at players like Peyton Manning who did everything for his team and city and in the end, he was expendable.
Like college players moving around whirr the money is, no loyalty.
The Knick coach did more form them then any coach has in the last 20 years and he gets fired.
Screw it and just use AI to coach these damn teams.
Hate to break this to you but College Sports are a big business too. It's just how things are when $$$ gets to the level it has. The reason NBA/MLB are weak are their Commissioners/Owners. The NFL is the #1 product in Pro Sports because of how they run things and have grown the sport while still having upper hand over players. NBA Players Union runs the league and it's why the product has been crap and declining for some time-they are doing what they should for their employees but it doesn't mean it's great for the consumer/fan.
Dan Hurley wouldn't make it out of Training Camp and Exhibition season being able to handle an NBA job. He's a CBB coach period. He's too emotionally invested and would crash out by Halloween. Despite the hype/talk last year there was a better chance I'd be the next Lakers coach then him--that was all for some motivation for UConn to go on a 3peat run and to make sure they gave him what he wanted (in addition to his extension financially) for his staff, etc....
I think the NBA has figured out you don't need some big name to sell anything-you need guys who can handle a locker room, communicate with the players and basically babysit their egos when they stink-to deflect blame.
Do laugh at the take on Todd Golden being a "Flash in pan" coach. He's thought of very highly by everyone in the sport, but apparently not some UK fans who are unimpressed with a National Championship and want to somehow marginalize it despite the fact we've all heard that it was the toughest conference in the history of CBB he played in all year, and didn't lose an out of conference game all year in going 36-4. It's okay to compliment someone else even if you aren't a fan of their program.
It's also OK to have a different opinion. Tubby also won an NC and was a flash in the pan for minute too. I've seen nothing from Golden to cannonize him as a coach. So I can laugh at people that do cannonize a one hit wonder.
LOL Tubby inherited a bit of a better situation than Golden. You cannot make this comparison.
Florida was good 2 years in a row.
I told everyone in March of 21 Scott Drew got a great recruiting span of 2 years and that has shown true. I don't think that's true of Golden. He looks to be the real deal
Golden is 39 yrs old and within 3 yrs of being in a Power Conference-the same that Tubby Smith was in at UGA prior to Kentucky he wins a Championship and he's a fluke? In this era of CBB with the Portal, NIL, etc.....Guys that move that fast and are innovative and win championships are coveted. Fine to have a difference of opinion but some people here just hate anything that isn't Kentucky to a point they are illogical.
Hurley would be wise to stay in college. Hurley's advantage in college is that he really is a great coach. In the NBA being a great coach makes you an average NBA coach.
Walter Clayton won him the title, not the other way around.
Is he a good coach, probably. Would he have won without Clayton. No way.
Clayton won 2 games in the tournament by himself. If Duke had Clayton. They win it.
If Houston had Clayton. They win it.
He had an absolutely dominant devastating clutch player. They don’t come along often.
So the coach gets 0 credit for getting the player and helping him develop? Is that not how every team in every sport functions? Great players make plays/win games? I saw Thomas Haugh make some big shots when Texas Tech had UF on the ropes? Without his shots, game wasn't in a position to allow Clayton to contribute his big shots. Will Richard kept them in the National Championship game with a huge 1st Half and could argue he won it for them with some elite defensive plays prior to Clayton's close out.
Great players just happen to "find" coaches though right? LOL
Sorry but this is the biggest pile of BS yet--and there's some deep stuff from Rafters more often than not. Shannon Terry came in at the right time. LOL
Hurley is a great college coach. Period. The professional game and dealing with NBA personnel isn't the same type of job, though. Grown men most likely will not be on board with his prickly persona or his antics. If everything falls into place for him though, I still wouldn't bet against him being a winner in the NBA either.
Dan Hurley with his abrasive attitude probably wouldn't go over too well in the NBA.
While this isn’t the focus of the OP’s thread, my interest is more in the reasons why the Knick fired Thibodeau rather than who the Knicks are going to hire to replace Thibodeau? He turned around and took an otherwise floundering franchise to Game 6 of the eastern conference finals with a roster that I still believe is poorly constructed, and got canned before the Game 6 jerseys were done in the dryer. Yeah it’s the Knicks, but firings typically take place because of more than just a single factor. 
If you turn your argument around, players don’t win games it’s all coaching those players???
Now that’s the biggest bunch of BS I’ve ever heard.
Special players come along every so often.
Carmelo Anthony won Syracuse that title.
Kimba Walker won UCONN that title
Florida won that title because of Clayton. Take him off the team , they are beaten 3 times.
Do you NOT watch games and just want to argue?
Clayton hit 7-8 shots that he missed one at that time they lose. Tough, well defended shots. No one else on Floridas team did that. They were all contributing to the Walter Clayton show.
Florida was playing team ball in 3 tournament games and were losing all 3. That’s when Clayton decided to take over and carry them to victory. The shots he hit were nothing short of amazing. His rebound, and run out to 3 to drain a turnaround fadeaway that was heavily defended was the things stories are made of. If you watched those 3 games that he took over, how can there be any doubt?? Even Kimba didn’t dominate the last 4 minutes of 3 games.
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Coaches are responsible for recruiting/developing players. If you saw Kemba Walker when he was at UConn his FR yr--you'd have wanted to recruit over him. I never stated that the coach won it--I said he deserves credit and is an excellent coach not a flash in the pan. He's only been at the Power Conference level 3 yrs--so to this point defending him as an excellent coach stands to be more reasonable than a "flash in the pan". Now if he stinks for the next 5 years in a row and never does anything, I'd come back and say CRZ4UK, you were right, he sucked. But in '23 he had that team peaking at right time and then Handlogten had that horrific injury in SEC Tournament and they didn't have Chenyelu or Alijah Martin (which was one of the top 5 Portal gets in CBB that was treated like he was a throw in compared to Davis kid who went to Arkansas from FAU). Identifying talent/needs and allowing your staff to work are signs of a great leaders. Look at Denzel Aberdeen. Guy was a 3 star recruit for Mike White--and he ended up hitting the last point UF scored in the National Championship game on the court and is now at Kentucky because he's seen as a valuable talent. Player development matters.
Carmelo had help--Boeheim had McNamara, Warrick, Pate, Edelin, etc...all stepped up. Was he fantastic? Absolutely. Was he the only reason they won the NC in '03? No. You can't do something alone. Also Boeheim had more success as he aged in CBB because so many teams couldn't shoot the ball and there was a movement against offense and just thinking you could "out tough" someone defensively. Thankfully that has gone by the wayside in CBB and offense does matter again. But look at his NCAA Success as he aged/latter years compared to when he he was in his prime. Also many assume he always ran the zone-he played man to man in the 1980's and mixed in a zone-he went straight zone when the 3pt was added because he didn't play a lot of players and also because opponents offensively were putrid more often than not.
Nobody is saying they aren't great players but to ignore the entire role of a program is really short sighted. So why didn't Michael Jordan win with anyone other than Phil Jackson? Same with Kobe Bryant. Shaq won when he went from one HOF all timer to another in Pat Riley. If anyone can coach and make in game adjustments, have eyes for talent, etc....then why even pay a coach-just hire some school administrator who will sit on the bench when some NIL department handles the recruiting or selection of the players?
You seem to quick to **** all over a 39 yr old who accomplished more in 3 yrs of coaching at the elite level than most guys do in their careers. He did so with players who weren't elite recruits.....and he did so in what was the toughest conference in CBB history based on statistics and amount of teams invited to the NCAA Tournament. It takes a TEAM to win championships and ignoring all the other players and coaching job is asinine. I didn't say Walter Clayton wasn't a great player, just said you can't ignore the work put in to help him improve while at Florida and surround him with teammates that fit his game/compliment him and who also made huge plays to help their team all year/including the Postseason.
Also it's interesting for those who don't care for Golden that his philosophy is very similar to Mark Pope in how to approach the game. So do you think Pope is a **** coach who needs elite talent to win or do you have faith he can get this done? I felt he did a damn good job last year and is on the right path and fact he's really in his 3rd year of coaching at the Power Conference level this year is set up for a big jump too. Do we just write him off because he's not done what Golden did up to now? Hell no. So not sure why it bothers people when other coaches get some credit for doing a good job.
Clayton was absolutely terrible at Iona right? Just awful I bet. How could he have improved at all without Golden, his superior staff, and unrivaled developmental abilities? /s
Truth is somewhere in the middle though. Clayton won those games in the tournament, but wouldn’t be in the position without the staff and team.
Next someone is going to claim Dalton Knecht owes all of his development to Tennessee’s staff and coach.
I never said in any post Golden wasn’t a good coach. I actually said he probably is. All I was trying to say is Clayton was extremely special. One of the most dominant tournament runs I’ve ever seen by a player. Golden put good players around him. Development was there.
I am curious why he allowed us to poach one of his guards for next year. Did he not think Aberdeen was a starting guard?? He looses 3 very good guards off that team.
He lost all 4 of his rotational guards--Clayton, Richard, Martin, and Aberdeen. So you aren't wrong in what he's got to replace.
I don't know why he let Aberdeen go. He's publicly stated several times after NCG he would be a huge player for them and start prior to him entering the Portal. So things happen. He brought in that Xaivian Lee kid and it's not like Aberdeen couldn't play with other guards--but maybe he didn't like the role he was going to have to play sharing a PG spot? Florida under him has proven they have an eye for talent because I'd be lying if I told you I knew anything about Thomas Haugh, Alex Condon, Aberdeen prior to them being at UF. Chinyelu was a key playe at Washington St and thought he was solid but he was a huge impact for them. I have seen Alex Llloyd who will be a FR and think he's vastly underrated and that AJ Brown guy who came from Ohio U can shoot the ball. He's an elite 3pt shooter--specifically from the corners and they are analytically driven so the type of shots players can make matter in terms of fitting with the rest of team and how they will play. Think a lot of the shots that Richard took will be there to be taken for him.
Nobody including their staff would think they'll get the level of play they got from Walter Clayton or collective backcourt. He's an elite shot maker and great player. Will Richard's defense was as important in that NC game late and his shot making in the 1st Half kept them in the game. Martin was a warrior with Final Four Experience. Same with Aberdeen who could play so many roles as he'll do at Kentucky this year. You can't replace that-but a good coach wont' try-he'll find identity of personnel he has (strength this year will be his Frontcourt) and play what suits them best. Boogie Fland was a homerun get for them that late in Portal though. SEC experience and seeing what else was available,
Just think there are some coaches that come along every era-and with the HOF that have exited recently, they emerge and think Golden was one. There's a reason Sean Farnham who covered the WCC for ESPN mentioned what he did years prior to Golden even having the UF job. He stated when he gets to the Elite Level he'd win a National Championship and do so within a time frame that Golden surpassed-think he said 5 yrs--he did it in 3. So this isn't some fluke for those who have followed his coaching career. Clayton was an all time clutch shot maker and big game player but my take is everything goes hand in hand, it's not a fluke. A fluke run can happen but that's for the Paul Hewitt types--I think Porter Moser is a helluva coach and think Oklahoma is going to be tougher this year despite losing a special one of kind talent in Fears--but he's going to be good because he can coach/develop. Showed it at Loyola and look at the guards he had at OU prior to Fears--Oweh/Uzan-who have proven they are big time talents/players. Coaching does matter is all I am saying and it's okay to give a nod to guys who are good elsewhere too.
He’d get choked out like PJ Carlesimo did by Latrell Sprewell!
Be shocked if its not Malone. No way they bring in a first time nba coach to coach a ready made team of veterans .
I’ll never forget when Latrell Sprewell said the 21 million deal he turned down wasn’t enough to feed all his kids.
The Knicks firing a coach as successful as Thibs without having a clear replacement plan is classic James Dolan and is why the Knicks have been so irrelevant for so long.
The fact that now the plan seems to be sending draft assets to another team in order to acquire a coach that is similarly accomplished or less accomplished as Thibs is quite revealing as to how unprepared they were to make this change that they supposedly have been thinking about for a while.
At the end of the day, who would really want to jump in to bed with this team and inherit the crazy expectations of Championship or bust when they don’t really have a championship roster….
The fact that now the plan seems to be sending draft assets to another team in order to acquire a coach that is similarly accomplished or less accomplished as Thibs is quite revealing as to how unprepared they were to make this change that they supposedly have been thinking about for a while.
At the end of the day, who would really want to jump in to bed with this team and inherit the crazy expectations of Championship or bust when they don’t really have a championship roster….