Tough conversation: is Allar good enough?

[Calabrin]

I have been critical of Allar in earlier posts but think of how different the conversation would be if our $3M DC's defense were able to stop Oregon in the first OT. The game tying drive would live forever in the minds of PSU fans along with Kerry Collin's drive in 1994( for us oldsters), the 2016 blocked FG vs OSU in 2016 etc.

That is classic Jim Knowles. His stats are great on paper but in critical 4Q or OT situations his defense hardly ever produces. It happened in all 3 OSU losses to Michigan and the 2022 playoff loss to Georgia.

The defense was not the issue. They were on the field for a long time, and they held the #1 ranked FPI team to 17 points in regulation.

The Penn State offense was hungover for the first 3 quarters and still managed to put up 17 points in just 10 minutes of actually playing competent football.

If the offense pulls their head out of their *** one drive earlier than they did, this game never goes to OT.

If you're looking for a silver lining, that would be it: this team CAN go toe-to-toe with Oregon. They proved it in Q4 when they completely dominated.

They just didn't show up for most of the game. Singleton shouldn't have gotten 11 carries. The offensive scheme continued to look like the same hot garbage we saw against the cupcakes... there's a number of factors, but poor defense wasn't one.

 

[WaffleShopper]

To me it seemed that Allar played better when no one expected a win. Down 17-3 in the 4th qtr I think he got out of his head and just said, "F it. I'm going to sling this thing and see what happens. The game is already lost." What happened was a nice comeback, but in OT the pucker factor was back and we got what we got.

I said this same thing a few days ago before the game, maybe earlier in this thread. Someone asked how can Allar play well and I said that sadly he probably needs to be losing in order to play well because it frees him up and there’s no more pressure. Like 2nd half USC.

 

[LMTLION]

To me it seemed that Allar played better when no one expected a win. Down 17-3 in the 4th qtr I think he got out of his head and just said, "F it. I'm going to sling this thing and see what happens. The game is already lost." What happened was a nice comeback, but in OT the pucker factor was back and we got what we got.

You are absolutely right. He is his own worst enemy. It’s not the line, wrs or any other factor. He simply cannot handle pressure. It’s indisputable at this point with a huge, huge body of evidence.

 

[PSUSignore]

I have been critical of Allar in earlier posts but think of how different the conversation would be if our $3M DC's defense were able to stop Oregon in the first OT. The game tying drive would live forever in the minds of PSU fans along with Kerry Collin's drive in 1994( for us oldsters), the 2016 blocked FG vs OSU in 2016 etc.

That is classic Jim Knowles. His stats are great on paper but in critical 4Q or OT situations his defense hardly ever produces. It happened in all 3 OSU losses to Michigan and the 2022 playoff loss to Georgia.

Knowles and the defense did their job. This is a horrible take. The defense had to be exhausted late in that game as the offense couldn't stay on the field and give them any rest. Everyone with some sense would have been thrilled if you told them before the game that we'd hold Oregon to 10 points through 3 quarters and 17 points through 4. This loss falls squarely on the offense. The defense did exactly what we needed, held a very explosive offense in check and turned the game into a rock fight, giving the offense the script that was needed to win. But the offense couldn't take advantage.

 

[PAgeologist]

The one thing everyone seems to agree upon, the one thing that brings everyone on the board together is distaste for the gimmick-ridden offense.

I was losing my mind late in the game when they split Drew out as a WR.

The game is on the fugging line, and AK is upstairs playing Settlers of Catan.

I dont think that is an AK problem. The obsession with chunk plays and poorly timed trick plays been a consistent problem throughout Franklin's tenure.

 

[Arivacalion]

Allar doesn't have the composure necessary to run this complicated offense. At this point I honestly think if you can't bench him, which you can't, then simplify the play calling.

 

[heyholet'sgo]

We did some #or$#!t play early on where everyone and his brother motioned and we got abused on that play. I knew we were in trouble then : aka we can't bet Oregon playing between the tackles ..........

 

[LMTLION]

Shocking stat.

 

[Nittering Nabob]

Knowles and the defense did their job. This is a horrible take. The defense had to be exhausted late in that game as the offense couldn't stay on the field and give them any rest. Everyone with some sense would have been thrilled if you told them before the game that we'd hold Oregon to 10 points through 3 quarters and 17 points through 4. This loss falls squarely on the offense. The defense did exactly what we needed, held a very explosive offense in check and turned the game into a rock fight, giving the offense the script that was needed to win. But the offense couldn't take advantage.

Knowles and LJ Sr butted heads at OSU over the D-Line. LJ favors a large physical 4 man front with really mean DE’s and stout DT’s to hold the middle.

Knowles (and Franklin) are a little more cute in his/ their approach. They want fast (I.e. undersized) DE’s to rush the QB, leaving the DT’s and LB’s to manage for themselves.

Oregon ran the ball at will versus PSU’s undersized (and frequently out of position) D-Line. The consequences of which proved PSU’s undoing in OT. The defense was gassed b/c of the first 3 quarters

LJ Sr was probably grinning watching Oregon run all over his former boss’ d-line.

 

[WaffleShopper]

Knowles and LJ Sr butted heads at OSU over the D-Line. LJ favors a large physical 4 man front with really mean DE’s and stout DT’s to hold the middle.

Knowles (and Franklin) are a little more cute in his/ their approach. They want fast (I.e. undersized) DE’s to rush the QB, leaving the DT’s and LB’s to manage for themselves.

Oregon ran the ball at will versus PSU’s undersized (and frequently out of position) D-Line. The consequences of which proved PSU’s undoing in OT. The defense was gassed b/c of the first 3 quarters

LJ Sr was probably grinning watching Oregon run all over his former boss’ d-line.

JK’s defense allowed 3 scores out of 9 possessions during regulation. If someone would have offered that here before the game every last one of us would have gladly taken it.

 

[razpsu]

JK’s defense allowed 3 scores out of 9 possessions during regulation. If someone would have offered that here before the game every last one of us would have gladly taken it.

Seriously! Add that Oregon didnt score in the last 12 min? Of regulation. Allar is the leader of the offense. Can’t lead? move out of the way.17 points at home, hell northwestern scored 14.

 

[MacNit]

I have been critical of Allar in earlier posts but think of how different the conversation would be if our $3M DC's defense were able to stop Oregon in the first OT. The game tying drive would live forever in the minds of PSU fans along with Kerry Collin's drive in 1994( for us oldsters), the 2016 blocked FG vs OSU in 2016 etc.

That is classic Jim Knowles. His stats are great on paper but in critical 4Q or OT situations his defense hardly ever produces. It happened in all 3 OSU losses to Michigan and the 2022 playoff loss to Georgia.

Did the man not just DC O$U to a NC?

 

[MacNit]

The defense also didn't create a turnover (I know we can argue they had one) and elite defenses come with a stand in OT. They didn't.

I do think the defense is elite and that's why we're far from done. I do think the offense is the main problem...at leatlst the scheme and refusal to have Allen as RB1 but the defense had opportunities.

We are cooked…left it all on the field Saturday AND LOST AGAIN. We are going to lose at O$U - probably badly (Eddie Munster will be licking his chops to show Knowles who is best) and then we likely lose to Indiana and maybe even another game. The problems are in this order: 1. Franklin; 2. Allar; 3. Singleton; 4. WRs; 5. Offensive Line; 6. Sandy Barbour (see 1.)

 

[MacNit]

Shocking stat.

There is no regrouping. We have zero WRs. Zero. Drew is who he is…average D1 QB, our Offensive Line is grossly overrated, and Singleton is as well. TEs are solid. Allen should be the bell cow.

 

[MacNit]

Seriously! Add that Oregon didnt score in the last 12 min? Of regulation. Allar is the leader of the offense. Can’t lead? move out of the way.17 points at home, hell northwestern scored 14.

After we lose to Indiana, it will be the Grunk era.

 

[Georgia Peach]

After we lose to Indiana, it will be the Grunk era.

Not in the era of NIL. IF there is 2-3 million invested in a player, he plays.

 

[Alphabets]

There is no regrouping. We have zero WRs. Zero. Drew is who he is…average D1 QB, our Offensive Line is grossly overrated, and Singleton is as well. TEs are solid. Allen should be the bell cow.

Everything about this is dead-on.

 

[psu0408]

Right now, Allar is 14th in the BT in passer rating, 15th in completion percentage, 14th in yards per game - and that's with 3 awful NC opponents on the schedule.

Oddly enough, Kaytron Allen is 8th in conference rushing with 46 carries despite the early bye and time-share. Singleton has 52 carries and is 21st. I don't know what the coaches are seeing in practices and games to justify taking carries away from a guy averaging 7.1 ypc.

 

[Ram20]

There is no regrouping. We have zero WRs. Zero. Drew is who he is…average D1 QB, our Offensive Line is grossly overrated, and Singleton is as well. TEs are solid. Allen should be the bell cow.

I think our receivers are fine, personally. As has always been the case, they don't get separation because our route trees are garbage and our O-line can't hold long enough for them to develop. Watching film of the game yesterday, I couldn't believe how in pass pro our line would be reasonably engaged in blocks, then just fall off allowing at least one free runner at Drew. Look, it's chicken or egg. Allar has poor mechanics because he just does, or he throws off his back foot behind receivers because there is always someone in his face. At the end of the day, drew was pressured on 18 of 25 drop backs. I'm not defending Drew, he is a big boy that hasn't grown up, but just very few times he could comfortably step into throws on Saturday.....same as it was with CLifford. We need a new O-Line coach in the worst way.

 

[sdwcpa]

The defense was not the issue. They were on the field for a long time, and they held the #1 ranked FPI team to 17 points in regulation.

The Penn State offense was hungover for the first 3 quarters and still managed to put up 17 points in just 10 minutes of actually playing competent football.

If the offense pulls their head out of their *** one drive earlier than they did, this game never goes to OT.

If you're looking for a silver lining, that would be it: this team CAN go toe-to-toe with Oregon. They proved it in Q4 when they completely dominated.

They just didn't show up for most of the game. Singleton shouldn't have gotten 11 carries. The offensive scheme continued to look like the same hot garbage we saw against the cupcakes... there's a number of factors, but poor defense wasn't one.

Okay, maybe I overstepped by bringing JK into the conversation. There will be ample time to debate JK as the season progresses.

This is a thread about Allar. My main point is how much different the conversation would be about Allar if the D was able to stop Oregon in the first OT and I will leave it at that.

 

[dcf4psu]

The real question is why would any top tier high school QB come to PSU if they have aspirations of playing in the NFL?

 

[thoss]

Tengwall's latest film study focuses on the two successful PSU drives and still, Allar is making mistakes on nearly every play. He's bailing, panicking, misreading, not seeing wide open receivers. It was a miracle those drives worked because Allar wasn't running the plays the way they were designed. He was completely flustered by the Oregon pressure and just making bad decisions.

It helped me understand the game-ending INT in OT. IT wasn't like that INT was just a fluke thing, it just reflected the erratic way Allar had been playing all along.

Landon's latest

 

[BobPSU92]

Right now, Allar is 14th in the BT in passer rating, 15th in completion percentage, 14th in yards per game - and that's with 3 awful NC opponents on the schedule.

That’s disgusting. I never would have expected it to get this bad.

Just after the oregon game ended, NBC showed Drew and Franklin together. I would love to know what was said there. Franklin had a serious look on his face as though he was listening to Drew. Drew’s back was to the camera, but I assume he was talking (apologizing?) to Franklin.

 

[BobPSU92]

I have no idea what goes on in a kid’s head or the program, but I feel as though Drew lacks the tough mentality needed to be a big-time QB. After a big loss last year (Tosu?), Drew in the postgame PRESSER. looked like he was going to cry. Maybe he did a little. He needs to be pissed there and show resolve to put it behind him and get better. He’s been seen sulking and temperamental at other times too. Blackledge expressed concern with Drew’s sideline demeanor during the oregon game.

Sometimes it is what it is, but Drew needs to calm down and move on to the next play.

 

[KingLando]

We are cooked…left it all on the field Saturday AND LOST AGAIN. We are going to lose at O$U - probably badly (Eddie Munster will be licking his chops to show Knowles who is best) and then we likely lose to Indiana and maybe even another game. The problems are in this order: 1. Franklin; 2. Allar; 3. Singleton; 4. WRs; 5. Offensive Line; 6. Sandy Barbour (see 1.)

We lost in double OT to a top 5 team when our offense took 3 quarters off because AK can't call a game to save his life. We'll beat everyone we have more talent than like CJF has done for a cou0le years now. We'll lose to Ohio State but we knew that before the Oregon game.

 

[razpsu]

After we lose to Indiana, it will be the Grunk era.

That doesn’t fire me up

 

[LMTLION]

Tengwall's latest film study focuses on the two successful PSU drives and still, Allar is making mistakes on nearly every play. He's bailing, panicking, misreading, not seeing wide open receivers. It was a miracle those drives worked because Allar wasn't running the plays the way they were designed. He was completely flustered by the Oregon pressure and just making bad decisions.

It helped me understand the game-ending INT in OT. IT wasn't like that INT was just a fluke thing, it just reflected the erratic way Allar had been playing all along.

Landon's latest

His wrs did a decent job getting open throughout that game . It is all on Drew. Even in the best of times, his processing is so freaking slow. Tengwell does great on these videos. I have learned a lot, particularly that the problems have likely been mostly on Drew, the OL to a degree, but not the WR’s.

 

[dcf4psu]

Shocking stat.

This is an indictment of Kotelnicki, not Allar, coming from a conference not known for playing much defense to a conference that does and he's failing miserably adjusting to it. For the offense to be that putrid for three quarters after a bye week Saturday night was inexcusable.

 

[donaldfair71]

Knowles and LJ Sr butted heads at OSU over the D-Line. LJ favors a large physical 4 man front with really mean DE’s and stout DT’s to hold the middle.

Knowles (and Franklin) are a little more cute in his/ their approach. They want fast (I.e. undersized) DE’s to rush the QB, leaving the DT’s and LB’s to manage for themselves.

Oregon ran the ball at will versus PSU’s undersized (and frequently out of position) D-Line. The consequences of which proved PSU’s undoing in OT. The defense was gassed b/c of the first 3 quarters

LJ Sr was probably grinning watching Oregon run all over his former boss’ d-line.

Should grin every time he looks at his Championship ring the same way that he wouldn't have if not for Jim Knowles.

 

[donaldfair71]

This is an indictment of Kotelnicki, not Allar, coming from a conference not known for playing much defense to a conference that does and he's failing miserably adjusting to it. For the offense to be that putrid for three quarters after a bye week Saturday night was inexcusable.

Oregon's OC came from Texas San Antonio.

You don't need to come from the SEC to understand ball.

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

Oregon's OC came from Texas San Antonio.

You don't need to come from the SEC to understand ball.

Yet another argument against the fear mongering

 

[donaldfair71]

Yet another argument against the fear mongering

In one way it is.

In another way, it opens the door to a different fear-mongering: What if the team is actually hiring competent coordinators but this is what the offense ends up looking like just the same?

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

A vicious circle lol.

 

[donaldfair71]

A vicious circle lol.

One you solve a few ways.

Mostly, examine whether guys are being allowed to run "their stuff". If so, and they still look this bad, replace them. If not, let them. This is not rocket science, and moving the ball at Ohio State or Oklahoma State or Slippery Rock, except at the margins (among the very best), can be achieved many different ways. Penn State, for way too many big games, is settling for none of them.

But it has become clear, at least to me, that Franklin wants things to be not just achieved, but achieved a certain way. It was REALLY important that he punch it in last year against the Buckeyes in a conventional way. Man up, with a RB hammering ahead 3 times. I think it is REALLY important to him to be loyal, or be seen as loyal. It is the only explanation that makes sense in not replacing his last 2 QBs with either lesser recruits or portal talent. Clifford, love him, a "gamer", wasn't it for a serious program. Just wasn't. James so very much wants to say he did it "His way". I just don't see why this would end at offensive philosophy. He has his ways, and it is almost better if he just ran the offense instead of this awkward melding of "his stuff" to his coordinator's stuff.

 

[BCS PSU]

One you solve a few ways.

Mostly, examine whether guys are being allowed to run "their stuff". If so, and they still look this bad, replace them. If not, let them. This is not rocket science, and moving the ball at Ohio State or Oklahoma State or Slippery Rock, except at the margins (among the very best), can be achieved many different ways. Penn State, for way too many big games, is settling for none of them.

But it has become clear, at least to me, that Franklin wants things to be not just achieved, but achieved a certain way. It was REALLY important that he punch it in last year against the Buckeyes in a conventional way. Man up, with a RB hammering ahead 3 times. I think it is REALLY important to him to be loyal, or be seen as loyal. It is the only explanation that makes sense in not replacing his last 2 QBs with either lesser recruits or portal talent. Clifford, love him, a "gamer", wasn't it for a serious program. Just wasn't. James so very much wants to say he did it "His way". I just don't see why this would end at offensive philosophy. He has his ways, and it is almost better if he just ran the offense instead of this awkward melding of "his stuff" to his coordinator's stuff.

IMO, with Clifford, PSU would've beaten ND last season and Oregon this season; he obviously wasn't as good as Fields or Stroud at OSU, but he was a pretty good college qb who also played with confidence and passion.

 

[dcf4psu]

Oregon's OC came from Texas San Antonio.

You don't need to come from the SEC to understand ball.

In fact if one didn't know better you would have thought PSU was the newer team to the conference with their play calling Saturday night compared to Oregon. So Oregon found a coordinator with a good ability to adjust to the conference they are playing in.

 

[BobPSU92]

We never seem to have the right offensive coordinator. No matter who Franklin brings in, it’s a SH|T. SHOW. . There appears to be enough blame to go around, however — QB, offensive line, wide receivers. Aside from tight end, and to some extent running backs, PSU has been a mess on offense for years. I would love to know what is discussed in coaching meetings, meaning how influential Franklin is with the offense.

 

[lion97]

One you solve a few ways.

Mostly, examine whether guys are being allowed to run "their stuff". If so, and they still look this bad, replace them. If not, let them. This is not rocket science, and moving the ball at Ohio State or Oklahoma State or Slippery Rock, except at the margins (among the very best), can be achieved many different ways. Penn State, for way too many big games, is settling for none of them.

But it has become clear, at least to me, that Franklin wants things to be not just achieved, but achieved a certain way. It was REALLY important that he punch it in last year against the Buckeyes in a conventional way. Man up, with a RB hammering ahead 3 times. I think it is REALLY important to him to be loyal, or be seen as loyal. It is the only explanation that makes sense in not replacing his last 2 QBs with either lesser recruits or portal talent. Clifford, love him, a "gamer", wasn't it for a serious program. Just wasn't. James so very much wants to say he did it "His way". I just don't see why this would end at offensive philosophy. He has his ways, and it is almost better if he just ran the offense instead of this awkward melding of "his stuff" to his coordinator's stuff.

After 6 offensive coordinators and how many offensive line and wide receiver coaches, these things have been completely consistent:

inconsistent offensive line play, including ability to deal with looping defense lineman
a LOT of bunch screens or runs to the short side of the field
the stupid wildcat direct snap where the QB lines up at WR, wasting a down
slow developing pass routes
predictability where the defense is able to often guess what's coming
3rd down conversion struggles
underdeveloped QB development after multiple years of starting

Even in the Joe moorehead era, up to half time of the Minnesota game, the offense looked exactly the same as the J Donovan era. There was a ton of heat on Franklin then, and after halftime it seems he let go, and the rest of that season is (positive) history

I feel bad for Allar. He is headed on the same trajectory as Hackenberg and Clifford, underdeveloped and misused.

 

[donaldfair71]

IMO, with Clifford, PSU would've beaten ND last season and Oregon this season; he obviously wasn't as good as Fields or Stroud at OSU, but he was a pretty good college qb who also played with confidence and passion.

See I will always be on the other side of the Clifford discussion and at odds with people.

I think Trace was pretty good college QB. Clifford was serviceable, and can't argue he had BIG games here and there. But he also had absolute clunkers, and for a guy who mentioned needing "elite" QB play as far back as 2018, I was always surprised (then not now) that he had gained such loyalty.

Again, he would have been a great QB for Northwestern or probably 2/3 of schools. Not for a school hoping to be Elite. Feel like he should have gotten the Cade McNamara treatment once Drew came in.

 

[donaldfair71]

After 6 offensive coordinators and how many offensive line and wide receiver coaches, these things have been completely consistent:

inconsistent offensive line play, including ability to deal with looping defense lineman
a LOT of bunch screens or runs to the short side of the field
the stupid wildcat direct snap where the QB lines up at WR, wasting a down
slow developing pass routes
predictability where the defense is able to often guess what's coming
3rd down conversion struggles
underdeveloped QB development after multiple years of starting

Even in the Joe moorehead era, up to half time of the Minnesota game, the offense looked exactly the same as the J Donovan era. There was a ton of heat on Franklin then, and after halftime it seems he let go, and the rest of that season is (positive) history

I feel bad for Allar. He is headed on the same trajectory as Hackenberg and Clifford, underdeveloped and misused.

Can't argue with any of this.

It all screams of micromanagement.