Tough conversation: is Allar good enough?

PAgeologist

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In fact if one didn't know better you would have thought PSU was the newer team to the conference with their play calling Saturday night compared to Oregon. So Oregon found a coordinator with a good ability to adjust to the conference they are playing in.
Oregon also has a head coach with the intelligence to allow the OC to adjust and call his game.
 

PAgeologist

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After 6 offensive coordinators and how many offensive line and wide receiver coaches, these things have been completely consistent:

inconsistent offensive line play, including ability to deal with looping defense lineman
a LOT of bunch screens or runs to the short side of the field
the stupid wildcat direct snap where the QB lines up at WR, wasting a down
slow developing pass routes
predictability where the defense is able to often guess what's coming
3rd down conversion struggles
underdeveloped QB development after multiple years of starting

Even in the Joe moorehead era, up to half time of the Minnesota game, the offense looked exactly the same as the J Donovan era. There was a ton of heat on Franklin then, and after halftime it seems he let go, and the rest of that season is (positive) history

I feel bad for Allar. He is headed on the same trajectory as Hackenberg and Clifford, underdeveloped and misused.
One thing for sure. I would be shocked if Franklin gets another highly ranked QB. He has no idea how to develop QBs.
 

BobPSU92

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Sadly, I am expecting the worst from the rest of this season. If the team implodes and Allar continues to be the current Allar, how does Franklin recover? The expectations coming into the season were sky-high and Allar was supposed to be a stud. How does Franklin compete for quality recruits if this dog sh|t pervades this season? This could be the start of a descension into full-blown crapitude.
 

donboy6499

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One thing for sure. I would be shocked if Franklin gets another highly ranked QB. He has no idea how to develop QBs.
Here’s the saddest thing to me, and I used to just get railed on here over keeping Clifford the starter:

Penn State has truly given 2 guys a chance in 7 years.

That speaks even worse than lack of development. The first guy was easy to see he wasn’t the guy. He played 4 years because I don’t know. But he was such not the guy he got benched at one point but then just thrown back in.
The second guy certainly plays like he should be looking over his shoulder for 2/3 years. Even the “good” season wasn’t really good save for one game. It’s almost the polar opposite of Brian Kelly: just absolute deference to the incumbent to the point that no one involved feels any pressure.

This is all to say that, with a sample size is of 3, Franklin is 1/3 in developing QBs.
 

Midnighter

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Sadly, I am expecting the worst from the rest of this season. If the team implodes and Allar continues to be the current Allar, how does Franklin recover? The expectations coming into the season were sky-high and Allar was supposed to be a stud. How does Franklin compete for quality recruits if this dog sh|t pervades this season? This could be the start of a descension into full-blown crapitude.

Penn State will be competitive in recruiting for a number of reasons - money, B1G, history, tradition, location, etc. and we don't have the same issues places like Nebraska have that IMO, will keep PSU from really tanking (even BOB put up back to back winning seasons under the worst circumstances). I am personally against paying any buyout for CJF but would be fine if he and PSU both look for fresh starts soon. We may sleepwalk into the playoff and I will certainly watch, but I think the reality is Franklin just isn't 'him' and isn't going to be. And honestly, there isn't much difference in 10-2 every year vs. 8-4 - both get you the same at the end of the year; nothing.
 

PAgeologist

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Penn State will be competitive in recruiting for a number of reasons - money, B1G, history, tradition, location, etc. and we don't have the same issues places like Nebraska have that IMO, will keep PSU from really tanking (even BOB put up back to back winning seasons under the worst circumstances). I am personally against paying any buyout for CJF but would be fine if he and PSU both look for fresh starts soon. We may sleepwalk into the playoff and I will certainly watch, but I think the reality is Franklin just isn't 'him' and isn't going to be. And honestly, there isn't much difference in 10-2 every year vs. 8-4 - both get you the same at the end of the year; nothing.
Regarding the playoffs, assuming they make it. Not sure that is a given. It will probably be a one and done. Or do they really get lucky enough to draw the 2 teams that didn't belong again? I dont believe they would have beaten most of the other teams in last year's playoffs, except Indiana. Maybe Clemson.
 
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PAgeologist

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Here’s the saddest thing to me, and I used to just get railed on here over keeping Clifford the starter:

Penn State has truly given 2 guys a chance in 7 years.

That speaks even worse than lack of development. The first guy was easy to see he wasn’t the guy. He played 4 years because I don’t know. But he was such not the guy he got benched at one point but then just thrown back in.
The second guy certainly plays like he should be looking over his shoulder for 2/3 years. Even the “good” season wasn’t really good save for one game. It’s almost the polar opposite of Brian Kelly: just absolute deference to the incumbent to the point that no one involved feels any pressure.

This is all to say that, with a sample size is of 3, Franklin is 1/3 in developing QBs.
I was one of the people who wanted Clifford pulled when the playoffs were out of reach. Just to get Allar started. But seeing how it turned out, id much rather have Clifford behind center than Allar.
 
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donboy6499

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I was one of the people who wanted Clifford pulled when the playoffs were out of reach. Just to get Allar started. But seeing how it turned out, id much rather have Clifford behind center than Allar.
Not wrong but big picture, neither the guy.
It’s like going from dating one person you’d never marry to the next you’d never marry.
 

PSUForever

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There was certainly a nexus of circumstances for this game:

-top-ranked opponent
-coming off a bye week
-"Big Game" stigma for Franklin
-"has never had a good game against a good opponent" stigma for Allar
-offense had looked suspect against weak opponents
-Primetime
-College Gameday
-White Out
-Penn State was higher ranked and favored
-Oregon had cross-country travel and was staying in Altoona

This was everything coming together at once. Every monkey on Franklin's back. Every possible advantage in favor of the Nittany Lions. Every previous weak attempt at deflection and making excuses for not beating good opponents... there was just nowhere to turn this time, and absolutely no one wanted to hear it.

I actually PREFER that Franklin took ownership of this loss because that's better than hearing, "Look, it's HARD to win football games." Yeah, we know. And yet other top teams manage to do it *sometimes*.

But as I said previously: we tied Oregon in regulation with our offense showing up for only 1 quarter. They went full tilt at us for 4 quarters and could only squeeze 17 points.

The trick is the Penn State offense can't scratch their a$$e$ for 50 minutes going, "Wait... this game is TODAY?! Quick...! Somebody do something!"

Although, I also agree with something Kevin Horne said: "I'm done with Big-12 offensive coordinators. They are frauds. They only look good because they don't play against real defenses. But then they come here and it's the same story time and time again."
Everyone thinks our 4th quarter spark was more a broken clock being right twice a day versus a sign we actually are turning the corner on offense.
 
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MacNit

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27 pages? The answer is obviously 'no' right?


Roberson to the portal!
Sadly, I am expecting the worst from the rest of this season. If the team implodes and Allar continues to be the current Allar, how does Franklin recover? The expectations coming into the season were sky-high and Allar was supposed to be a stud. How does Franklin compete for quality recruits if this dog sh|t pervades this season? This could be the start of a descension into full-blown crapitude.
he has seen the light!
 
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MacNit

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Regarding the playoffs, assuming they make it. Not sure that is a given. It will probably be a one and done. Or do they really get lucky enough to draw the 2 teams that didn't belong again? I dont believe they would have beaten most of the other teams in last year's playoffs, except Indiana. Maybe Clemson.
Don’t be so sure about Indiana - last year or this!
 
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Arivacalion

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Forget the playoffs. 9-3 would actually be a good season at this point. The issues have been there since game 1, and now we are 4 games in, and have lost probably the 3rd best player in the defense with no backup.

Allar doesn't have it. He has no composure. Reminds me of Morelli more than anything else: Million dollar arm, 10 cent head.
 

Nits74

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Forget the playoffs. 9-3 would actually be a good season at this point. The issues have been there since game 1, and now we are 4 games in, and have lost probably the 3rd best player in the defense with no backup.

Allar doesn't have it. He has no composure. Reminds me of Morelli more than anything else: Million dollar arm, 10 cent head.
I was thinking three losses also. Would not be surprised if they lose four. Allar aside, the OL has to be the largest over rated group I can remember.
 
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PSUForever

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Regarding the playoffs, assuming they make it. Not sure that is a given. It will probably be a one and done. Or do they really get lucky enough to draw the 2 teams that didn't belong again? I dont believe they would have beaten most of the other teams in last year's playoffs, except Indiana. Maybe Clemson.
Most likely a first rd loss vs SEC team IF we make it. Klatt has us at #9 playing Bama. We should forfeit, no way Big Game James is going into Tuscaloosa and winning. He will make this Saban replacement, DeBoer, look like, well Saban.
 
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Most likely a first rd loss vs SEC team IF we make it. Klatt has us at #9 playing Bama. We should forfeit, no way Big Game James is going into Tuscaloosa and winning. He will make this Saban replacement, DeBoer, look like, well Saban.
We play bama in bama over Christmas break the rick is driving down. I think tgar should join
No wallets, no id, no phones. 1k in 20s between us
 

AvgUser

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Regarding the playoffs, assuming they make it. Not sure that is a given. It will probably be a one and done. Or do they really get lucky enough to draw the 2 teams that didn't belong again? I dont believe they would have beaten most of the other teams in last year's playoffs, except Indiana. Maybe Clemson.
I do not think we’ll make the playoffs. Let me say that differently.

The ONLY way OSU makes playoff is beating OSU and not losing to anyone else. Our resume would suck and the country’s “eye test” view ( including selection committee) of us is we can’t win ****. They’d be right, too
 

Doubledd

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I do not think we’ll make the playoffs. Let me say that differently.

The ONLY way OSU makes playoff is beating OSU and not losing to anyone else. Our resume would suck and the country’s “eye test” view ( including selection committee) of us is we can’t win ****. They’d be right, too
He has regressed so much since we first saw. Got incrementally better and then platued. That’s just bad coaching.
 
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Calabrin

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I was thinking three losses also. Would not be surprised if they lose four. Allar aside, the OL has to be the largest over rated group I can remember.
Yup. I don't know why everyone was laughing at our schedule this year. I said before the season began there were no fewer than 5 tough games on there.

Iowa may not be good, but they always play us tough. That's a trap game.
Nebraska almost beat Michigan, and while Michigan is not at their peak... uuuuuh... we're not much better. The Huskers are not a gimme.
Ohio State is going to maul us. That's a given.
And Indiana sent a clear message with an absolute beatdown on Illinois, while their QB missed 3 pass attempts over the course of 2 games and passed for 10 touchdowns. Look out.
 

SleepyLion

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Yup. I don't know why everyone was laughing at our schedule this year. I said before the season began there were no fewer than 5 tough games on there.

Iowa may not be good, but they always play us tough. That's a trap game.
Nebraska almost beat Michigan, and while Michigan is not at their peak... uuuuuh... we're not much better. The Huskers are not a gimme.
Ohio State is going to maul us. That's a given.
And Indiana sent a clear message with an absolute beatdown on Illinois, while their QB missed 3 pass attempts over the course of 2 games and passed for 10 touchdowns. Look out.
After years of watching PSU football I am not sure how this is possible. Is it even legal? 🤣
 

donaldfair71

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Yup. I don't know why everyone was laughing at our schedule this year. I said before the season began there were no fewer than 5 tough games on there.

Iowa may not be good, but they always play us tough. That's a trap game.
Nebraska almost beat Michigan, and while Michigan is not at their peak... uuuuuh... we're not much better. The Huskers are not a gimme.
Ohio State is going to maul us. That's a given.
And Indiana sent a clear message with an absolute beatdown on Illinois, while their QB missed 3 pass attempts over the course of 2 games and passed for 10 touchdowns. Look out.
Good post.

At this point, 9-3 feels every bit as likely as 10-2. Not sure what anyone has seen yet to think otherwise.
 

PSUHarry

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One you solve a few ways.

Mostly, examine whether guys are being allowed to run "their stuff". If so, and they still look this bad, replace them. If not, let them. This is not rocket science, and moving the ball at Ohio State or Oklahoma State or Slippery Rock, except at the margins (among the very best), can be achieved many different ways. Penn State, for way too many big games, is settling for none of them.

But it has become clear, at least to me, that Franklin wants things to be not just achieved, but achieved a certain way. It was REALLY important that he punch it in last year against the Buckeyes in a conventional way. Man up, with a RB hammering ahead 3 times. I think it is REALLY important to him to be loyal, or be seen as loyal. It is the only explanation that makes sense in not replacing his last 2 QBs with either lesser recruits or portal talent. Clifford, love him, a "gamer", wasn't it for a serious program. Just wasn't. James so very much wants to say he did it "His way". I just don't see why this would end at offensive philosophy. He has his ways, and it is almost better if he just ran the offense instead of this awkward melding of "his stuff" to his coordinator's stuff.
I wasn't aware that Franklin calls plays. The OSU sequence has been dissected ad nauseum and concluded he didn't call those play, because, well, he doesn't call plays. Did AK sh*t the bed, especially with #44 on the team, absolutely. There is no evidence that he meddles. The people who run this site and have way more access to the program than you do on your TV have confirmed this so many times.
 
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donaldfair71

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I wasn't aware that Franklin calls plays. The OSU sequence has been dissected ad nauseum and concluded he didn't call those play, because, well, he doesn't call plays. Did AK sh*t the bed, especially with #44 on the team, absolutely. There is no evidence that he meddles. The people who run this site and have way more access to the program than you do on your TV have confirmed this so many times.
As Franklin said, it is all on him.

If AK sh*t the bed as you say, and AK is still the OC/calling plays, that's as much on him as it would be if he called them himself.

Like Saban said, you're either coaching it or permitting it.

You don't need access to see the dysfunction. Franklin has owned up to it all since the Oregon game, do you have access that tells you he is in fact not owning up to it behind the scenes?
 

PSUHarry

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As Franklin said, it is all on him.

If AK sh*t the bed as you say, and AK is still the OC/calling plays, that's as much on him as it would be if he called them himself.

Like Saban said, you're either coaching it or permitting it.

You don't need access to see the dysfunction. Franklin has owned up to it all since the Oregon game, do you have access that tells you he is in fact not owning up to it behind the scenes?

No of course I don’t have access but others do such as the BWI writers.
 
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PSUHarry

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I’m not asking facetiously, I’m not on this stuff all the time and miss articles.
Are they contradicting Franklin himself? He’s taken pretty much all ownership of the product.
You may want to join the Den for other informed opinions.
 

MacNit

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As Franklin said, it is all on him.

If AK sh*t the bed as you say, and AK is still the OC/calling plays, that's as much on him as it would be if he called them himself.

Like Saban said, you're either coaching it or permitting it.

You don't need access to see the dysfunction. Franklin has owned up to it all since the Oregon game, do you have access that tells you he is in fact not owning up to it behind the scenes?
I thought he “owned up” to everything after Oregon? What changed?

In fact, things got worse (for example, using Kaytron Allen).

11+!years and no accountability. In fact, he has been rewarded for mediocrity.