Track Finals

[crusader_of_90]

A few thoughts and a question.

Looking at the prelim times of the 1A meet and there are some good numbers and some tremendously bad numbers. I get that qualifiers from different sectionals advance, but jeeze ...

Yes, I get that the pool size of the athletes is smaller, but it seems there is never that "one kid" from 1A that really is elite. The elite athletes seem to come from high-density populated areas. Again, the pool size is bigger - but are there other factors that come into play? (I can think of one small school athlete - Jena Hemann from Breeze Central - who is the outlier.)

Cahokia will win 2A - but is there a site or easy way to calculate the "overall" champ based on times/distances for the 2/3A meets?

 

[LHSTigers94]

I think IHSA should separate team and individual. The first day would be Prelim and Finals in open events with the next day being all relays for a team title.

 

[mc140]

You occasionally get individuals but almost never a relay. For example, Kathleen Young from Warrensburg would have won both 2a and 3a last weekend in the throws . Ryan Shield from Leo years ago was arugably the fastest kid in the state that was in 1a.


It can be done by hand but it doesn't tell the whole story. A good team like Cahokia can have a bad day in certain events and still get their guys down state, something that wouldn't happen in the 3a Sectional by them. Also, as soon as Ward jumps far enough to win, he will stop jumping. Something he couldn't do in 3a.

 

[LHSTigers94]

You occasionally get individuals but almost never a relay. For example, Kathleen Young from Warrensburg would have won both 2a and 3a last weekend in the throws . Ryan Shield from Leo years ago was arugably the fastest kid in the state that was in 1a.


It can be done by hand but it doesn't tell the whole story. A good team like Cahokia can have a bad day in certain events and still get their guys down state, something that wouldn't happen in the 3a Sectional by them. Also, as soon as Ward jumps far enough to win, he will stop jumping. Something he couldn't do in 3a.

I agree and I have said it over and over, there is a huge difference between 2a and 3a. The things you mentioned may seem small but for "State" they are huge.

 

[crusader_of_90]

still get their guys down state.

Up state ... or as us southern folk say, getting them out.

 

[crusader_of_90]

I disagree about the 2/3A differences, specifically for the STL area sectional. Ward would still only jump until he won there too and the high jumper would do that same. The sprinters/relays would go all out, discusses would fly and shots would be put.

Like the old Uncle Milty gag, "just take out enough to win" - Cahokia would do that in 3A as well.

 

[mc140]

If they are in 3a they have 7 less qualifiers and one less relay

 

[crusader_of_90]

Again, they went hard enough to win that day.

 

[crusader_of_90]

Ward ripped a 25 footer in the LJ prelims and 50 in the TJ = both will stand for the weekend, I'd assume.

The 3A 100 has four dude with 10.5x times - the finals will be a great one to watch.

What's most shocking is that there were two sub 100 throws in the discus in 2A ...

 

[godfthr53]

Why in an individual sport is there even classes.

 

[LHSTigers94]

I disagree about the 2/3A differences, specifically for the STL area sectional. Ward would still only jump until he won there too and the high jumper would do that same. The sprinters/relays would go all out, discusses would fly and shots would be put.

Like the old Uncle Milty gag, "just take out enough to win" - Cahokia would do that in 3A as well.

I disagree with this statement. Yes Ward would have jump whatever was needed but the rest of the kids ran the times they have been running all year. It's a huge difference! No 4x800 as they have never ran under 7:50 this year. 4x100, 4x200, and 4x400 would compete along with Session. That is were the buck stops in my opinion. Everything else is questionable and the only guaranteed win would be Ward in the jumps. The beauty of track is times don't lie. Kids can run what they can run. No kid is going from 10.9 all year to 10.5 at State.

 

[mc140]

There should be a team state the week after with sectional winners but probably will never happen.

 

[ignazio]

Cahokia does just enough to set a state record in the 4x1 - all classes .... 41.12.

 

[crusader_of_90]

Right now, if it's Cahokia in 3A, they lead 32 with Edwardsville's total dropping four points to 21. Ward's TJ not accounted for yet either.

The Session brothers score 2 and 3 in the hurdles - little bro from Belleville East topping Cahokia's family representative. Cahokia, which won the 4x800 would not have scored in 3A.

 

[mc140]

2 hour lightening delay for lightening strikes no where near the stadium.

 

[crusader_of_90]

Taking Cahokia's times and distances and apply to 3A, Cahokia more than doubles up Edwardsville in this meet and subtracts from their score by scoring better in same events.

My predictions on today's outcome came from looking at 2/3A Dyestat and the STL area Honor Roll - Cahokia targets certain meets to peak. This was THE PEAK for this team.

What a great coaching staff to constantly churn out such polished athletes - hat's off to Cahokia!

 

[BretEpic]

That SEC speed.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Taking Cahokia's times and distances and apply to 3A, Cahokia more than doubles up Edwardsville in this meet and subtracts from their score by scoring better in same events.

My predictions on today's outcome came from looking at 2/3A Dyestat and the STL area Honor Roll - Cahokia targets certain meets to peak. This was THE PEAK for this team.

What a great coaching staff to constantly churn out such polished athletes - hat's off to Cahokia!

First I want to congratulate both E'ville and Cahokia on the championship. Winning 5 Straight is impressive no matter what class they are participating in. As good as they are I still feel there is a huge difference between the classes and that changes everything. I point to ESL as a solid case. The one year they were in 2A they got second. They have struggled to get 20 points in 3A since their Championship in 2008.

Here is why I think differently. First I go back to the sectionals which would have put them with ESL, Eville and the rest of the crew. The key there is first two places automatically qualify and the rest on time. From the field events, Ward no doubt would have qualified so his 20 points are solid. This issue becomes the mentality when jumping. When you have confidence that your worse jump will automatically win, your approach is different. Being pushed a little creates a different environment. I feel he would have jump 25' at some point but it would have taken more jumps. What does that mean, the times in the 4x100 would have been a little slower as he would not have had the two week rest he was able to get being in 2A. He would not have been on the 4x200 based on needing his leg on the 4x400 if they wanted any chance of beating ESL. That would shave 2 seconds off of their 4x200 time today. He is the x factor in whatever 4 events he was in. Guaranteed 38 to 40 points. After that it gets cloudy. Both high jumpers weren't pushed and were pretty confident in their sectional. 3A would have made them work for a top place which add pressure. This is huge in track and field. Example being ESL 41.8 in the Sectionals and 42.4 on Friday. This same team was clocked at 41.6 before this year. This is why you can't just take times and insert them into results. The kid throwing the shot would have been legit and placed. Atkins I don't think would have made it in any opens similar to Strong from ESL. The one year they were 2A he got second in the 100 at 10.8 however he never made it to state in 3A. Session would have battled his brother so his place in the 110's isn't solid. He only beat him once that I know of in 3 years. He may have forced Anderson E'ville and younger brother to run faster than what they did. The rest of the events Cahokia would not have qualified to Friday. No 4x800, no 400 runners (St. Clair County meet), 300 hurdles ?, No 200. That being said in order to win Cahokia comes into the state meet very tense compared to the relax nature they were able to run with today. Competition changes everything.

 

[crusader_of_90]

An East Saint Louis Guy will never recognize Cahokia for anything. Proof above. This team dominated everyone today. They let it all hang out and it seems they are Milton Berle sized.

 

[LHSTigers94]

An East Saint Louis Guy will never recognize Cahokia for anything. Proof above. This team dominated everyone today. They let it all hang out and it seems they are Milton Berle sized.

Correction. I went to school with one of the high jumpers Father and my family members coach Basketball at Cahokia. Has nothing to do with recognizing their efforts. I applaud their success as they are more like Lincoln, which is where I graduated from. I also know track and it's a huge difference between running again competition. I also know Cahokia has been good for a while however with only two classes it was hard for them to top ESL and Lincoln!

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Bottom line is fast is fast whether its 1, 2 or 3A. Just to give you an example, Cahokia won the 400 and 800-relays in the fastest times ever at the state meet. 41.12 and 1:25.83 are ridiculously fast times. Then you include what Jamari Ward also did - I say also because he ran on both relays, and its pretty remarkable. He took three out of 6 jumps in winning the long jump - in the longest jump in state meet history. He took just two jumps in the triple and jumped 50'. Besides Ward, Cahokia had a 57' shot putter which was 5th best in all classes, a 6-8 HJ which would have tied him for second in 3A and a 14.44 hurdler who would have finished second in 3A.

Pressure or not, you have to give credit where credit is due. In a year of one of the fastest state meets ever - see Kahmari Montgomery, Cahokia proved that they are the best. Debate all you want, but if you calculate their numbers with the rest of 3A, they would've scored 82 points - which is second most ever to, Cahokia who scored 94-1/2 points when they did win the big class in 2006 nearly doubling up, you guessed it East St. Louis.

And by the way, Cahokia has a fair amount of their medalists back for next year including Ward. Only a handful of seniors were on this years team. Pretty scary thought to think that two - alltime best relays will have 3 of 4 members back. Maybe they will move up to 3A next year. Would be interesting considering what ESL has returning.