Tramel article

[jsmitty2.0]

I brought this up a week or so ago and I have to say I'm still having trouble separating the frat incident from other things that have happened. Particularly with the football team. Again, it seems a bit hypocritical.

Interesting article by Tramel



http://newsok.com/why-oklahomas-football-team-is-the-wrong-messenger-in-the-protest-against-a-racist-fraternity-video/article/5402347

 

[BUDDY G_rivals25215]

They have the right, and the responsibility as our university's largest public figures, to protest this incident of racism in a positive way.

When the football program is the face of your university, you take the good with the bad. These are young men. The issues with violence toward women are not acceptable, but it doesn't mean these guys can't take a stand for the right thing on another issue.

Our football team's transgressors deserve a second chance just like the young men in the chant video deserve a second chance.

 

[John Otterstedt]

Originally posted by barkingwater2000:
I brought this up a week or so ago and I have to say I'm still having trouble separating the frat incident from other things that have happened. Particularly with the football team. Again, it seems a bit hypocritical.

Interesting article by Tramel

Only 5% of the student population is black.
About 65% of the football team is black.

The blacks on the football team make up almost 10% of the entire black population of undergraduates.

 

[sdawg83]

Agree & disagree. I like that they led the protest over the video. They are the face of the University. Like it or not, they are. But i wish they took an equal stance on the violence against women.

 

[ETU]

I'm not much of a fan of Tram, but....ah....he has a point.

 

[Snake98]

Very surprising Bob Stoops has let this drag on. It's past time to move on. Despise racism but despise a man hitting a woman equally as well. Trammel is right in that there seems to be a disconnect with Stoops and the Team.

 

[John Otterstedt]

Originally posted by PryorFan:
Very surprising Bob Stoops has let this drag on. It's past time to move on. Despise racism but despise a man hitting a woman equally as well. Trammel is right in that there seems to be a disconnect with Stoops and the Team.

The Mixon incident likely didn't strike home with most of the players. To them, it was probably a funny/interesting story and nothing more. It was not disruptive to the team.

The racism incident was likely disruptive to the team.

It's in Stoops' best interest to manage that disruption very carefully as to not leave any toes with his footprints. Any.

 

[Blair Sanderson_rivals]

When you see a bus full of the guys on the Football Team watching, cheering, and chanting as a player or three hit a woman, please post it.

 

[phillinois]

Well, it was disconcerting to me when the team missed the practices, and I was very vocal about them 'getting back on the horse' in getting back to work. (that was the fan in me that is still smarting over going 8-5 last year)

However, I had a rethink and I was probably wrong on that, for how could I possibly know the rage the brothers felt when they viewed that video?

I couldn't, I can't.
So I won't even try.

 

[Earle36]

In my opinion Tramel is spot on with this piece. In my mind there is no room on the OU campus for racist or men to beat up on girls or disrespect them in any way. They go hand in hand and one is no more less offensive than the other. If you care how women/girls are treated then you should be dammed offended by the lyrics of some of the music these kids listen to. There is hypocrisy run amok when someone is so offended by the racial chants in that video and still listens to the lyrics of some of this rap/crap that is prevalent in these kids lives.

In my mind there is no room for either. My philosophy is that I don't associate with either kind. I don't have male friends who are women beaters. I don't have friends that I know are racist. I don't have friends who listen to the kind of music that refers to women/girls as Hos and promotes cop killings. To me they all are scum.

There are plenty of lessons for every one to learn by this incident. If there is one OU athlete who thinks listening to lyrics referring to women/girls as a Ho then that is one to many. It is simply not defensible.

 

[John Otterstedt]

Difference between race and being a ho - one is a choice and the other is not.... I can't recall any popular music that talks about killing hoes.

I recall Body Count's "Cop Killer" song from the early 90s as well as NWA's "F tha Police", also Eric Clapton's "I Shot the Sheriff," but can we get a list of this contemporary music that talks about killing police? I'd like to see how prevalent this music is.

from Urban Dictionary

ho
(noun): Anyone who dehumanizes themselves by selling their soul to others. The term can be applied to either a man or a woman or--as in the case of --both.
Anne Coulter: You two ladies look awfully interesting. Are you Indians?
Woman #1: Yes, I'm a Navajo.
Woman #2: I'm an Arapahoe.
Anne Couter: What a coincidence! I'm a right-wing ho!

 

[jsmitty2.0]

I agree. They certainly have the right to protest against racism, but maybe they should have done the same thing in regards to violence towards women. I guess hitting and injuring a woman didn't seem as bad to them.

 

[jsmitty2.0]

Jcon please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are saying its acceptable to hit a woman if you think she is a ho? I'm not following you. One instance has a few people singing a racist song while the other incident actually involved physical violence.

 

[Buyer150]

Now it's time for the OU football team to solve its own problems and learn how to become successful in football and in life….. For the vast majority this requires an employable college degree.

But look at the poor football graduating rates nearly everywhere. It shows us the real priorities

 

[Blair Sanderson_rivals]

Originally posted by barkingwater2000:
Jcon please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are saying its acceptable to hit a woman if you think she is a ho? I'm not following you. One instance has a few people singing a racist song while the other incident actually involved physical violence.

Group

Group > One

 

[John Otterstedt]

Addressing Roy's statement equivocating calling someone a ho to frat boys singing about hanging blacks from a tree.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[jsmitty2.0]

wnas, again, nobody was hurt. As opposed to the other incident (s) where people actually were hurt. Not saying the players can't take a stand against the racist chant, but it would be nice if they would do the same for other serious issues.

 

[Earle36]

Exactly. You are either against this kind of female debasing or you are for it. There is no middle ground here. It is very telling when some try to nullify the intent and actions.

 

[John Otterstedt]

What does it tell?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[AztecWarrior]

The truth of the matter is Joe Mixon should have been asked to leave and DGB should have never been allowed to transfer in. If you are going to take the high horse (which Boren and Stoops usually seem to do) then that's just the way it should have been.

Sucks as Sooner football fan but it's true. Had Mixon been a walk on corner back I highly doubt he would still be with the team.

 

[Rob Lewis_rivals]

Originally posted by DallasSooner:
The truth of the matter is Joe Mixon should have been asked to leave and DGB should have never been allowed to transfer in. If you are going to take the high horse (which Boren and Stoops usually seem to do) then that's just the way it should have been.

Sucks as Sooner football fan but it's true. Had Mixon been a walk on corner back I highly doubt he would still be with the team.

Good point, Dallas. If there is to be a "taking the high horse" policy at OU, it should be administered consistently.
Mixon may have learned a lesson, and taking a hard line approach with him (fairly or unfairly) would have cost OU a great player perhaps, but it also would have been a warning to future recruits that there is a high level of behavior required, both on and off the field at all times, for OU athletes.....no exceptions.

 

[phillinois]

Oh man, y'all are still grinding on this one..?

We can all agree that lynching people for the color of their skin and clocking dike bitches that call you the N word are equally egregiously offensive on their face.

So, having said that, let's move on...


Next!

This post was edited on 3/19 2:23 PM by Soonersincefitty

 

[BUDDY G_rivals25215]

Some just can't accept the world for what it is.

Nobody is condoning violence toward women, but the world of sports doesn't play by the same rules. If you can't handle the hypocrisy of it all, I suggest you leave sports fandom all together.

Look at the Cowboys signing Greg Hardy. He gets a second chance (or more likely more than second chance) because he's a phenomenal athlete. Doesn't happen for the 2nd string guy, much less "Joe Blow" everyday guy.

Joe Mixon was our biggest recruit of his class. He did something where being removed from the university would have been 100% justified, but he was given a second chance because he can play football at the highest level. Yes, there were a lot of mitigating circumstances surrounding the incident that some will use to "soften the blow" so to speak, but nobody would have had a leg to stand on had Oklahoma showed him the door and someone wanted to defend. But that doesn't mean they are condoning violence toward women.

I'm also not saying that Joe Mixon wasn't deserving of a second chance, because IMO he was. He deserved to be punished and then given the opportunity to redeem himself. I don't believe anybody but the hate filled morons on the Horn site truly believe Joe is some ruthless, woman hitting monster who is going to terrorize all the poor rich white girls running around campus. He's a kid who lost his cool.

But let's be clear: The Sooners program and players supporting their own is not accepting abuse of women, and it doesn't mean they don't have the right to stand against another social issue that affects them as well. Despite a few bad eggs, Stoops' track record for second chances speaks for itself. I'm sure he has motives besides turning these guys into better men, but it usually happens in the process.

 

[nptb]

If you don't want to get hit don't put your hands on another person male or female period. I never understand why people think a girl can hit an guy but they can't hit back. On top of that she called him a racial name. The frat was just plain stupid and for people to stand up for that freedom of speech stuff is foolish. But like we say some get it some don't until it happens to them.

 

[BUDDY G_rivals25215]

Originally posted by ohyoubaby:
If you don't want to get hit don't put your hands on another person male or female period. I never understand why people think a girl can hit an guy but they can't hit back. On top of that she called him a racial name. The frat was just plain stupid and for people to stand up for that freedom of speech stuff is foolish. But like we say some get it some don't until it happens to them.

Working in law enforcement I see issues of domestic assault almost daily. It is not a system that bodes well for the male party in instances when the male is likely the victim. He is still usually the party arrested despite the evidence. But still I believe subduing is, in most cases, a possible temporary resolution until the police arrive. But then I've seen some women come through here that are more than a handful to be detained by multiple officers.

 

[phillinois]

Yeah, just today a black person was found hanging from a tree in Mississippi.

Now, if you're Jackson or Sharpton, you're going to assume it was murderous lynching, then again, if you're grounded you may assume, or at least entertain the thought that it was a suicide.

Let the forensics peeps figure it out. It's their job...

 

[jsmitty2.0]

Bottom line, and I hate to say it, but protesting over the racist rant and not saying a word about the abuse of women by multiple players is total hypocrisy. Some attempt to justify it but we all know what it is.

 

[gtanduga]

Originally posted by Soonersincefitty:
Oh man, y'all are still grinding on this one..?

We can all agree that lynching people for the color of their skin and clocking dike bitches that call you the N word are equally egregiously offensive on their face.

So, having said that, let's move on...


Next!

This post was edited on 3/19 2:23 PM by Soonersincefitty

Yep. Tramel has a good argument, but I don't consider Bob a hypocrite and it certainly does not change the way I feel about OU, Boren, Castiglione, Stoops, the coaches, players and students (except for a handful of SAEs).

People can second-guess the decisions made by Boren and Stoops all they want (which they do anyway), but what's done is done and it's time to move on.

 

[jsmitty2.0]

It doesn't change my opinion of them as people, but its definitely hypocritical. I don't understand why some sooner fans can't admit the obvious. It doesn't make us any less of a fan

 

[John Otterstedt]

Probably because it's not obvious.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Andrew Owens]

We get it barkingwater. Your opinion is the only right one in your mind. It's obvious to you.

You posted your opinion and others have posted theirs. Don't be dismayed that others don't readily agree with the opinion of some random guy on a message board. It's reaching to think that what you think should be obvious to everyone else.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[jsmitty2.0]

You are right. I was definitely wrong to think it was obvious to everyone. I'll move on