Tubby Smith talks time at UK
- Thread starter rick64
- Start date
I try. At least you didn’t laugh at that one🫵
In that instance you succeeded.
I will give him this. Some of that was being unlucky. And I am not one to think the tournament is luck. It can’t be, you’ve got 7 teams that win the vast majority of titles over 100 years that’s not luck.
But Tubby beat Michigan State. Sparks was clearly fouled. So I do give him that, HIS work DID produce 2 final fours, but it was taken away.
The issue is even with that he followed Rick Pitino. Pitinos style, name brand, and success compared to Tubby is like filet and pork chop. Tubby was not a good choice to follow Pitino for those reasons.
I'm sure there were those that felt that way about Hall following Rupp.
It's HARD to follow these larger than life coaches. I think Tubby did well in the sense of he maintained a good winning clip for awhile and even when he reached his max he was still cordial towards fans and never took it out on us (like another unnamed coach).
Tubby did well in the sense he carried the spirit of the program and never seemed to put his ego before the program.
I've always said the perfect UK coach is one that has the brain of Pitino and the heart off Tubby. Maybe with Pope we've found a guy that might be both.
As far as the tourney not being luck- I look at the tourney the same way I do poker. Poker is a game of skill, but luck is involved. On any given night a pro can lose to the dumbass drunk who's just on a hot streak. Now, in the long run the pro will win more. But just like the NCAA tourney, one bad night can send you packing. It happens. And we've seen it happen. It's happened FOR us and TO us. Come on, Harrison's hot streak? That was some luck. UCONN having to run their conference tourney to even have a shot at getting in and then winning the whole thing? Some luck there too.
Sure, there's always gonna be the 96 Cats, the 76 Hoosiers, the 2001 Blue Devils. Teams that just were insanely dominant. But there's also always gonna be the 85 Villinovas, the lucky breaks of the 2019 Cavs, etc. That's what makes the tourney really fun.
This Tubby, like Cal, like Hall, like even Rupp, struggled towards the end.
We get so caught up in venerating Rick because he did well here that we forget he struggled here too for a bit. And then Cal smacked him around while at UofL. Rick is not infallible. None of our coaches are. And every coach not named Rupp only has 1 title to their name here. Rick should've had more, so should Tubby, and Cal. It could even be argued Hall should've gotten one more.
We've only had two crap coaches here and both had troubles off the court.
And one of those isn't around to defend himself anymore so, there's that.
It does amaze me how much crap Tubby catches. Dude came in, and won a title. You can say "Well, that's Rick's title...blah blah blah." But how many coaches have come in after a major influencing coach leaves and won a title? It doesn't happen much.
In fact it's only happened THREE times in CBB: Ed Jucker at Cincy in 1961, Steve Fisher at Meeechigan 1989, and Tubby Smith here in 1998.
That's how rare it is to win a title in your first year ANYWHERE in CBB.
But let's continue to crap on a guy that came in, won a title, and gave us a lot of solid years when it could've easily gone south.
Nah, Memphis gonna built that Ol' Pocket Lint statue. I mean Hardaway.....just.....unconquerable.
The problem with the luck argument is it’s usually the same programs in the final fours. That’s not luck. Add up the blue blood final fours, it’s the majority. Calipari had the best players in his first 5 years and went to 4 final fours. The recipe is a good floor coach with the best players is going to win it more times than not.
Poker is given cards from a random draw. The tournament usually produces the same teams. I don’t think UConn’s run was luck. They had excellent guard play that just turned it on at the right time. I don’t think that’s luck.
I think there is some luck time to time but it’s overplayed especially on this board. If you have the best players, and you have a good coach, your odds are there. Certainly to make the final four.
As far as Harrison, he was a top recruit in the country who always had the potential to do that. Freshman in the tournament are called sophomores. why would a guy that is a McDonald’s an American, who is the starting guard for Kentucky, who went to the NBA, be lucky to hit shots?
I’m not saying there aren’t times people are lucky, I’m saying the luck argument is wildly overplayed and thrown around. When you see the results play the same ways time in and time out
Also there’s no comparison to Hall and Tubby. You’re right in the sense that Hall was given a really bad hand following Hall. Everyone knows they wanted him out constantly but he followed a man who won 4 titles (more actually). So Hall had no way forward. But he went to 3 final fours, 2 title games, and won a title. Not saying you are making a comparison between the two but I’ve seen people do this before. Hall and Tubby are not in the same class of coach. Hall went to 3 final fours and won a title WITH his OWN players. Tubby never reached a final fours with his own players. Hall is tier 2, Tubby is tier 3. Hall is way above Tubby in legacy at UK. Never understood anyone that made that comparison. Again not saying you are. Throwing that in just in case.
Hall following Rupp and Tubby following Rick is similar, albeit not the same.
Tubby was a good coach just not a great recruiter, Cal was a great recruiter but half *** coach. Combine the two and you would have a hell of a coach.
I think Tubby was a good Coach and a good Person but he just couldn't recruit. I think if he would've had a good staff his recruiting would've been better.
Its no secret I am a huge fan of Tubby Smith. I will say his downfall was he thought UK recruited itself.
Only comparing in the sense that some folks gave Hall a very hard time. Similar for Tubby at times. I will give Tubby a bit of grace in the fact that the sport was starting to rapidly change as his time here waned.
As far as luck, I agree that just as in poker, the best players/teams will usually win out. However, just as in poker, sometimes the upstart gets you. And it's happened to all the blue bloods, Us, KU, Duke, UNC, etc. Granted that's usually because the pro makes a mistake, or maybe the underdog just gets hot. I also think that with NIL now, the gaps have closed. Now, there's a bigger threat to go home at anytime.
And to that point it kinda did. But a lot of that was Rick at the time. But the sport started to change and it became about AAU ball. Which few coaches new how to navigate (like Cal, K, Self....)
Tubby, and this has been said by people that knew him well and were a part of the program, absolutely loathed handlers. I know Tubbs is a good guy compared to others like Calipari (contrary to what some portray) because he remained a high school coach in several ways. He wanted these players to be high school kids in college. Obviously that is not how college basketball was even then. It’s a miracle he got as far as he did with that mindset.
I don’t think tubby adapted well to the new way as well, and I don’t think Tubby was meant for college basketball. When he speaks, and you can see this when he does, Tubby glows when he talks about high school basketball. That’s what he wanted to be, and I think when the opportunity presented itself, he went for the money which is understandable. But he never loved college basketball he loved high school basketball.
I think that's why he left UK for a smaller program (in addition to the pressure). He could see what the sport was becoming....and he'd HATE the hell out of NIL.
Tubby just wanted his players to be that....just players loving and learning a game. It's sadly a very naive old school mentality that will never be relevant, probably ever again. Part of me hates that too. But the other part of me is also a realist. These kids want to make money...and since we're in a capitalist society....there should be nothing wrong with it. But the NCAA jacked this all up. All they had to do was let players earn some money of autographs or merch. And it would've been a good balance of amateurism with some monetary perks. But noooooo. They told these dudes they couldn't earn squat so now they earn millions.
Another wonderful gift from the feckless NCAA.