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Two Damage Scenarios

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2330859

All-American
Nov 28, 2002
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Junior and Wade need to step in and resolve this mess. Kenny does appear to be “in over his head”, as each loss further illustrates his inability to coach these kids.

UL is not going to fire Payne; he will need to resign and assume some Administrative role.
 
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Knucklehank1

All-American
Jul 12, 2004
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BPGhost said:
Am I making this up or, isn’t Payne on record as saying that he doesn’t want to / won’t use NIL to get players?
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I think what he was trying to convey was that he wanted guys who wanted to be here first. That NIL shouldn’t be their top priority. It’s a nice thought but overly idealistic. Regardless, given that a bunch of “true fans” like ourselves are unsure what he was saying, I think this is one area that Heird could clear up as part of a plan going forward.
 
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RealStateBird

Junior
Aug 7, 2022
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Denny Crum told us Payne couldn’t even remember the plays while playing at Louisville. Why would anybody think he would make a coach is beyond me?
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood_rivals307205

Heisman
Jan 20, 2011
191,157
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BPGhost said:
Am I making this up or, isn’t Payne on record as saying that he doesn’t want to / won’t use NIL to get players?
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I believe this could be a bit out of context, but not 100% sure on it. He probably just meant he didn't want NIL to be the defining reason for a player choosing to come here, when he said whatever he said about it.

And I won't pretend to fully know how NIL works, I think a lot of fans speculate on it. But I don't think Kenny plays a huge role in putting together a NIL package.
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood_rivals307205

Heisman
Jan 20, 2011
191,157
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Knucklehank1 said:
I think what he was trying to convey was that he wanted guys who wanted to be here first. That NIL shouldn’t be their top priority. It’s a nice thought but overly idealistic. Regardless, given that a bunch of “true fans” like ourselves are unsure what he was saying, I think this is one area that Heird could clear up as part of a plan going forward.
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Hilarious I originally tagged you to get your thoughts LOL! Didn't see your post. Now I see it!
 
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MikesMarbles

All-Conference
Dec 31, 2002
13,100
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Knucklehank1 said:
I think what he was trying to convey was that he wanted guys who wanted to be here first. That NIL shouldn’t be their top priority. It’s a nice thought but overly idealistic. Regardless, given that a bunch of “true fans” like ourselves are unsure what he was saying, I think this is one area that Heird could clear up as part of a plan going forward.
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That's the impression I got from Kenny's statement about NIL. I realize others read it differently, to each their own.

I think the writing will be on the wall one way or another after Portal season in regards to NIL. If we get players I think it'll be through paying over market value.

I don't want to give the impression I think this is going to turn around in a big way. I'm as skeptical as anyone. I'm trying to approach it from the direction of what I think can realistically happen to improve the situation. The only change I can see happening before the end of next season is an influx of talent that may help. I don't think it's likely, just possible.
 
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the artist FKA zipp

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Mike'sMarbles said:
The only way I can see is if we outbid other programs with NIL, starting with the Portal this summer. Kenny's rich friends need to put their money where their mouths were when they praised him and said they want him to succeed at this job. I'm not sure it will work but it's the only way I can see any recruits coming here at this point.
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I'm not sure how the law reads. But according to @Ty Spalding 's guy hosting the NIL Zoom meeting this week (Marc Spiegel), you can't use NIL in the State of KY to recruit a high school kid to your school. At least not a direct payment prior to enrollment. Whether that's true for transfers, I don't know.

The idea that U of L encourages NIL in the recruitment of high school kids is off base--you can't do it in Kentucky. Do kids come to your school based only on the PROMISE of future NIL money? I would doubt that if they can get the real thing earlier somewhere else...
 
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Thecycle27

All-Conference
Sep 17, 2017
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We know for sure this is a mess. I tend to believe Payne when he said other teams were using the death penalty in recruiting. Keep in mind unlike any other year we knew the ruling was coming this year. Negative recruiting was probably most effective this year.

Coaches aren’t supposed to be involved in NIL. Most of his comments on NIL were before the ruling. He had to be measured in his comments.

Now his connections need to start helping if they don’t he won’t survive. I think they have abandoned him. This is the least skilled group I have seen.
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood_rivals307205

Heisman
Jan 20, 2011
191,157
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the artist FKA zipp said:
I'm not sure how the law reads. But according to @Ty Spalding 's guy hosting the NIL Zoom meeting this week (Marc Spiegel), you can't use NIL in the State of KY to recruit a high school kid to your school. At least not a direct payment prior to enrollment. Whether that's true for transfers, I don't know.

The idea that U of L encourages NIL in the recruitment of high school kids is off base--you can't do it in Kentucky. Do kids come to your school based only on the PROMISE of future NIL money? I would doubt that if they can get the real thing earlier somewhere else...
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I won't pretend to understand NIL but UK is located in KY and they seem to be doing pretty well with the recruiting + NIL thing right?
 
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the artist FKA zipp

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Ipartiedwithhopgood said:
I won't pretend to understand NIL but UK is located in KY and they seem to be doing pretty well with the recruiting + NIL thing right?
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I don’t follow the slappies so I can’t really comment on their experience. I only know what Marc told me and that they’re a state school as well.

With their recruiting history, I’m not sure UK needs NIL as an inducement. You just funnel the money directly…
 
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davecmc

Junior
Sep 12, 2006
1,085
348
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Best option: slide Payne into a cushy admin job that saves face at mutual pay reduction after this year. Everyone still friends.

Reality: He won’t get another HC offer ever. He’s late 50s as a first time HC and it’s as if there is no basic fundamental coaching going on. Then focus on a rockstar hire.
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood_rivals307205

Heisman
Jan 20, 2011
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the artist FKA zipp

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Good finds. The Wallace kid appears to have a deal that’s not linked to his UK commitment. Same with HVL and the Clarkson kids at U of L.

A car dealership in Louisville is more interesting. Hard to see that as coincidental.

The guy who hosted this week’s meeting is Marc Spiegel, and his email is [email protected]. His comment to me was…

“…NCAA rules allow individuals to create NIL deals with high school athletes provided state law allows it. In Kentucky, currently, high school athletes are prohibited from NIL deals.

That said, NIL deals with high school students may not be used as an inducement for recruiting purposes, and cannot be contingent on selecting a specific school.”

Couple ways to slice this… Is it a restriction on KY high school kids or high school kids from anywhere attending college in KY? The 2nd paragraph reads as more applicable to the recruiter than the recruit. Marc’s comment is ambiguous. Just send him an email though, he was very prompt getting back to me.

The KY attorney general is U of L grad and ex-football player Daniel Harmon. Let him know what you find out… 😃
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood_rivals307205

Heisman
Jan 20, 2011
191,157
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the artist FKA zipp said:
Good finds. The Wallace kid appears to have a deal that’s not linked to his UK commitment. Same with HVL and the Clarkson kids at U of L.

A car dealership in Louisville is more interesting. Hard to see that as coincidental.

The guy who hosted this week’s meeting is Marc Spiegel, and his email is [email protected]. His comment to me was…

“…NCAA rules allow individuals to create NIL deals with high school athletes provided state law allows it. In Kentucky, currently, high school athletes are prohibited from NIL deals.

That said, NIL deals with high school students may not be used as an inducement for recruiting purposes, and cannot be contingent on selecting a specific school.”

Couple ways to slice this… Is it a restriction on KY high school kids or high school kids from anywhere attending college in KY? His comment is ambiguous. Just send Marc an email though, he was very prompt getting back to me…
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To be clear it's all very confusing I don't pretend to know what is happening.

I speculate some programs are doing really well with NIL.

All I know is Kenny whiffed on high end targets for his first round of HS players, and he's really struggling with this job. And I don't think much can help him, but whoever was strongly supporting his hire need to help him with NIL if they can, if that's their thing.

As others say, it may not matter.
 
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Thecycle27

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Look his friends had opportunity to set him pretty good in 2023. They didn’t do it. They instead turned their back on him.

There is only 1 path forward
1) 2023 a complete roster overhaul that makes sense and can play his style.
2) He needs to lock down elite talent in 2024.

We will know next fall if he is on that path. We will know he can at least assemble a solid roster and recruit. If he can’t do those two things then game over.
 
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Guardman

All-American
Aug 27, 2001
12,425
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Cardiac Red said:
I knew KP wasn't going to be a great or even good coach, anybody can go to the premium board and check the achieves. I did however think he would be able to recruit and really figured with hiring Milt there was no way we weren't going to get DJ as well as a few other 5*'s. After all, all the KP supporters told us he was going to kill it on the recruiting trail.

Fast forward a few months, no big names from the portal, no DJ, no wins, and almost nothing committed for next year.. Don't even tell me about how he couldn't get any recruits because of the IARP ! it didn't slow Kansas down any and they were facing 7 level one violations. Hell it didn't even affect Mack, he brought in 6 guys last year under the same conditions. Scotty Davenport would be at least 500 with this same team.

Bottom line, he can't coach and he can't recruit well enough to hide it. Some of his buddies need to put an arm around him and tell him this gig is not for him and he needs to fade off in the sunset.. unfortunately for us all, very little chance that happens. I have no idea how we can afford not to fire him though when the YUM Center is going to be a ghost town if he's here next year.
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Financially, they MUST fire him. They will go broke if they don't.
 
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Tenncard_rivals

Junior
May 4, 2007
432
336
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the artist FKA zipp said:
How much is “face” worth? Not $8 million to me…
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I agree 100%. If an entity was contractually obligated to pay me millions of dollars to either do my job or to pay me to leave, why in the world would I let them off the hook? If the job is absolutely untenable and life was getting to be a painful grind, I might negotiate it down a bit, but no way in Hell I leave without a stack of cash.
 
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OldhamCard335

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Feb 3, 2014
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Thecycle27 said:
Look his friends had opportunity to set him pretty good in 2023. They didn’t do it. They instead turned their back on him.

There is only 1 path forward
1) 2023 a complete roster overhaul that makes sense and can play his style.
2) He needs to lock down elite talent in 2024.

We will know next fall if he is on that path. We will know he can at least assemble a solid roster and recruit. If he can’t do those two things then game over.
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What have you seen so far that would lead you to believe that:
1. KP has the ability to get better players here than the ones he has now and,
2. He could coach them any better than he is coaching this team.

So far it has been an all systems failure. He failed to get decent players here so far, he hasn’t developed any of the talent he has here (in fact, so have regressed) and his in game coaching as well as his game planning have been a complete joke.
Pay him his $10 mil, then sue him for $20 mil for the damages he has brought to our program. Gross incompetence!!!
 
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the artist FKA zipp

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My guess is making a bad hire from a competency standpoint is not much of a defensible position. That’s pretty much on the employer…
 
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chumlea

Redshirt
Aug 17, 2001
27
42
0
Sorry to say but if he only wins 2 games this year , there will be nobody in the stands next year. And please don’t put race into this conversation it is very obvious he is in over his head. Fans and tv pay the bills and if you don’t have that they won’t even be able to function Or have enough money to turn the lights on.
 
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