UFO's....Are they out there?

[cawoodsct]

I believe in the premise of nothing.
Take some time in bed tonight before you fall asleep to ponder my thought.

 

[Spanish Radio]

Supposedly on June 1st, congress is getting a detailed briefing on this subject. Some of it will be kept secret due to the tech involved.

 

[Deeeefense]

Actually, his accident that caused Mack's death was a classic impaired driver incident. The man who hit him, Raymond Czechowski, was an IT manager. He pleaded guilty and expressed remorse. Mack's family asked for leniency when he was sentenced - hardly the act of a family that had any suspicion.

As for the Hills and Travis Walton, there are plenty of people who believe them, but also skeptics who have poked holes in both cases. Where ever one comes down, it can't really be said the incidents "defy earthly explanation" because lots of people have explained them:

Here's what skeptics say:

1. The Hills, under controversial regression hypnosis, were essentially repeating details from an "Outer Limits" TV show that aired a few days before they were hypnotized. Betty Hill went on to claim to be in near constant contact with UFOs for years., to the point where her credibility was exhausted.

2. Travis Walton had long talked about his desire to capitalize on a UFO incident, failed a lie detector test, and one of his buddies admitted they'd talked about pulling a stunt to get out of paying a penalty for failing to fulfill a Forest Service timber contract.

Not sure where the failed lie detector test came from. The documentary I've watch indicated that he's passed 3 different lie detector tests and 3 of the other 4 also passed, a 4th was "undetermined" but he took one later and passed.

 

[Deeeefense]

I'm not looking to criticize anyone who believes Walton or Hill or anyone else. But since you asked, here's a summary of what skeptics say. I've highlighted the parts about failed polygraph tests. Two things this summary doesn't mention: The many reports that Walton had talked about what it'd be like to see a 'flying saucer' nearly incessantly before the incident, and that the timber crew used his 'abduction' to try to get out of paying a penalty for not fulfilling their contract.

Skeptical reception​

Skeptics consider the case to be a hoax, describing it as "sensationalizing on the part of the media" and "a put-up job to make money". UFO researcher Philip J. Klass considered Walton's story to be a hoax perpetrated for financial gain and discovered many "discrepancies" in the accounts of Walton and his co-workers. After investigating the case, Klass reported that the polygraph tests were "poorly administered", that Walton used "polygraph countermeasures," such as holding his breath, and that Klass uncovered an earlier failed test administered by an examiner who concluded the case involved "gross deception".[13][14][15][5][16]

Science and skepticism writer Michael Shermer criticized Walton's claims, saying, "I think the polygraph is not a reliable determiner of truth. I think Travis Walton was not abducted by aliens. In both cases, the power of deception and self-deception is all we need to understand what really happened in 1975 and after."[11] Cognitive psychologist Susan Clancy argues that alien abduction reports began only after stories of extraterrestrials appeared in films and on TV, and that Walton was likely influenced by the NBC television movie The UFO Incident, which aired two weeks before his own claimed abduction and dramatized the alien abduction claims of Barney and Betty Hill. Clancy noted the rise in alien abduction claims following the movie and cites Klass's conclusions that "after viewing this movie, any person with a little imagination could now become an instant celebrity", concluding that "one of those instant celebrities was Travis Walton."[6]

Media and publicity​

In 1978, Walton wrote the book The Walton Experience detailing his claims, which became the basis for the 1993 film Fire in the Sky. Paramount Pictures decided Walton’s account was "too fuzzy and too similar to other televised close encounters", so they ordered screenwriter Tracy Tormé to write a "flashier, more provocative" abduction story.[17] Walton has occasionally appeared at UFO conventions or on television. He sponsors his own UFO conference in Arizona called the "Skyfire Summit".[12]

Thirty years after the book's release, Walton appeared on the Fox game show The Moment of Truth and was asked if he in fact was abducted by a UFO on November 5, 1975, to which he replied, "Yes". The polygraph test determined he was lying.

Interesting but I've listened to Klass and Shermer many times and IMO they are not skeptics, they are debunkers. Their minds are already made up and then they seek ways to justify, whereas a skeptics consider all evidence and discounts weak or unreliable evidence as it may be uncovered. For instance when Walton has passed the polygraph tests both Klass and Shermer try to make the case that polygraphs aren't really reliable, that the administrator may lack skill, or that Walton somehow cheated, but when The Moment of Truth's lie detector test says Walton lied, then all of a sudden it's a slam dunk case against him without considering the skill level of the administrator or the conditions under which he was questioned. That's anything but being objective.

I don't know what happened to Walton, but I believe the he, and the rest of the crew are saying what they believed to have happened in their minds, that's as far as I can go with it. Joe Rogan had a great interview with Walton which you can pull up on youtube.

 

[christophero]

It's a fun topic to discuss, wondering what else is out there. I'm pretty sure none of us have tin foil hats on.

 

[IdaCat]

I consider myself a skeptic about everything. It's served me well in life. I made a joke about it, not to belittle the idea, but for my own amusement. I'm actually fascinated by the topic.

I've watched every documentary and related video I could find about Bob Lazar and most of the other cases mentioned in this thread. I have zero trust in the government, especially after what we've seen the last few years. I've gone back and forth with believing Lazar, but right now, based on what I've heard, I wouldn't bet that he's telling the truth. Hell, maybe he is. I don't know.

I find the military evidence and witnesses such as Cmdr. Fravor the most compelling. While anecdotes can be interesting, so many of them turn out to be likely BS. I hope more solid evidence is released.

 

[thabigbluenation]

I consider myself a skeptic about everything. It's served me well in life. I made a joke about it, not to belittle the idea, but for my own amusement. I'm actually fascinated by the topic.

I've watched every documentary and related video I could find about Bob Lazar and most of the other cases mentioned in this thread. I have zero trust in the government, especially after what we've seen the last few years. I've gone back and forth with believing Lazar, but right now, based on what I've heard, I wouldn't bet that he's telling the truth. Hell, maybe he is. I don't know.

I find the military evidence and witnesses such as Cmdr. Fravor the most compelling. While anecdotes can be interesting, so many of them turn out to be likely BS. I hope more solid evidence is released.

well most likely the govt needs to sell us a new major cold war size or bigger crisis to get us to fall in line and obey their next directives.....an alien threat would do that.

the new world order govt that is.

 

[IdaCat]

well most likely the govt needs to sell us a new major cold war size or bigger crisis to get us to fall in line and obey their next directives.....an alien threat would do that.

the new world order govt that is.

T or ET aliens?

 

[thabigbluenation]

T or ET aliens?

haha

 

[mrhotdice]

The senior officer who was roswell wrote a confession before he died of what he saw at Roswell. He said the “aliens” werent aliens at all, they were actually humans who time travelled 80k years back from the future to warn the US about nukes. They traveled to the only place in the US that had nukes (roswell air force base). A similar incident happened in the UK at a base. A black triangle touched down in the forest and a army major touched the spaceship. He said it was a black triangle and inside were humans from 40k years ago. They were so advanced they didn’t even understand our language.

But they knew Chinese.

 

[christophero]

How did he know they were humans from the future? Did they communicate?

 

[bkingUK]

I think the probability of life outside of earth is 99.99% and I think the probability that we are being visited by aliens with spacecrafts is about 1%.

Even the videos released by the government are blurry, could be generated with CGI or even if real could be optic anomalies.

Universe is huge. Bigger than we can comprehend. I have my doubts that A) that distance can be overcome by any civilization and B) that earth is special enough for them to visit.

The most probable thing is some type of self assembling and relocating space probe system, but that’s theoretical sci fi m

 

[bkingUK]

I consider myself a skeptic about everything. It's served me well in life. I made a joke about it, not to belittle the idea, but for my own amusement. I'm actually fascinated by the topic.

I've watched every documentary and related video I could find about Bob Lazar and most of the other cases mentioned in this thread. I have zero trust in the government, especially after what we've seen the last few years. I've gone back and forth with believing Lazar, but right now, based on what I've heard, I wouldn't bet that he's telling the truth. Hell, maybe he is. I don't know.

I find the military evidence and witnesses such as Cmdr. Fravor the most compelling. While anecdotes can be interesting, so many of them turn out to be likely BS. I hope more solid evidence is released.

This is long as hell but found it interesting. Cliffs notes: Lazar’s body language indicates misdirection and lying.

 

[IdaCat]

This is long as hell but found it interesting. Cliffs notes: Lazar’s body language indicates misdirection and lying.

I watched this a few days ago. There were also some things they didn't cover that my own ******** detector went off on.

I saw another video by a self-proclaimed expert in body language who thinks Lazar is telling the truth.

I remain unconvinced in this case. However, there is still hard evidence not related to the Lazar case that has yet to be explained.

 

[Deeeefense]

This is long as hell but found it interesting. Cliffs notes: Lazar’s body language indicates misdirection and lying.

I watched this. First off the Brit that tried to make arguments against Lazar's statements on physics exposed his stupidly. That and his "little green men" disparaging comments revealed to me that he was more interested in debunking the story than reading Lazar's body language.

"Chase" said he was 50/50 on truth vs fiction. This makes sense. Lazar has been scrutinized to death by zillions of people so it's no surprise that he chooses his words carefully, hesitates and thinks at times so as not to give someone another reason to attack him.

I remain skeptical regarding so-called body language experts. Every human is different. They have their own unique mannerisms and ways of speaking. Using one-size-fits-all decoding techniques seems to me to be not an extremely reliable way of finding the truth. Lazar on the other hand has passed several lie detector tests.

In summary if I were sitting on a jury and these guys were presenting their case I would not be convinced that they actually knew what they were talking about. I would say Lazar comes across as infinitely more credible than these guys.

 

[Lord Z]

I watched quite a bit of stuff on Lazar and I think he believes what he says. What I'd like to know is just how lucrative it is if you become one of these star speakers on the UFO circuit (whatever that is) as if the money is good then I could see people embellishing their stories to ride the gravy train. I have no idea what kind of money we're talking about, though.

 

[Deeeefense]

I watched quite a bit of stuff on Lazar and I think he believes what he says. What I'd like to know is just how lucrative it is if you become one of these star speakers on the UFO circuit (whatever that is) as if the money is good then I could see people embellishing their stories to ride the gravy train. I have no idea what kind of money we're talking about, though.

Lazar hasn't made a penny off of this, in fact he has been harassed by people breaking into his house, vandalizing his car and spreading disparaging rumors about him on social media. He has said for the record he has no interest in the topic of UFO, just wanted to get his story out.

 

[bkingUK]

I watched this a few days ago. There were also some things they didn't cover that my own ******** detector went off on.

I saw another video by a self-proclaimed expert in body language who thinks Lazar is telling the truth.

I remain unconvinced in this case. However, there is still hard evidence not related to the Lazar case that has yet to be explained

I watched this. First off the Brit that tried to make arguments against Lazar's statements on physics exposed his stupidly. That and his "little green men" disparaging comments revealed to me that he was more interested in debunking the story than reading Lazar's body language.

"Chase" said he was 50/50 on truth vs fiction. This makes sense. Lazar has been scrutinized to death by zillions of people so it's no surprise that he chooses his words carefully, hesitates and thinks at times so as not to give someone another reason to attack him.

I remain skeptical regarding so-called body language experts. Every human is different. They have their own unique mannerisms and ways of speaking. Using one-size-fits-all decoding techniques seems to me to be not an extremely reliable way of finding the truth. Lazar on the other hand has passed several lie detector tests.

In summary if I were sitting on a jury and these guys were presenting their case I would not be convinced that they actually knew what they were talking about. I would say Lazar comes across as infinitely more credible than these guys.

Of course it’s not concrete. They are merely sharing honest analysis. But stepping back a bit, I don’t think it’s these guys who need to prove their reputation. All are reputable. When behavior experts throw some red flags against a guy alleging aliens, they are on the side of credibility, especially when his proofs are merely anecdotal

Let me state it outright though, I don’t believe Bob Lazar. I think he was definitely involved in some top secret stuff, but I don’t think he experimented on any alien crafts. If he showed objective evidence I might believe him.

 

[bkingUK]

I think Lazar started with some lies to impress friends and it grew out of control to the point where his only option was to go all in or admit he lied.

 

[bkingUK]

Alien life forms though. Almost definitely exist. Highly improbable that they do not. The one thing I have doubts about though is that we assume it’s possible for crafts to travel light years in distance. We assume there must be some highly advanced civilization capable of it. That to me, is a huge assumption to make. Other than our imaginations, there is no proof that such an advanced civilization exists or that it’s even possible. So many variables there that we take for granted.

 

[Deeeefense]

Of course it’s not concrete. They are merely sharing honest analysis. But stepping back a bit, I don’t think it’s these guys who need to prove their reputation. All are reputable. When behavior experts throw some red flags against a guy alleging aliens, they are on the side of credibility, especially when his proofs are merely anecdotal

Let me state it outright though, I don’t believe Bob Lazar. I think he was definitely involved in some top secret stuff, but I don’t think he experimented on any alien crafts. If he showed objective evidence I might believe him.

Fair enough. I would just say that IMO determining if someone is lying or telling the truth is much better established through something like a polygraph (which Lazar passed more than once). Although not 100% accurate polygraphs have a high degree of accuracy and are based on science, vs body language which isn't really a science and has no established hard criteria to base accuracy on IOW it's basically sophisticated opinions.

IMO I believe he is being truthful about what is being reported which includes the description of what he worked on, and it's technical components. As far as the origin that's still an unknown so far as we know.

 

[Deeeefense]

Alien life forms though. Almost definitely exist. Highly improbable that they do not. The one thing I have doubts about though is that we assume it’s possible for crafts to travel light years in distance. We assume there must be some highly advanced civilization capable of it. That to me, is a huge assumption to make. Other than our imaginations, there is no proof that such an advanced civilization exists or that it’s even possible. So many variables there that we take for granted.

I would say that the serious investigations are not "assuming" but rather hypothesizing explanation(s) for the craft that are being observed and their unworldly behavior. At this juncture gravity based propulsions systems which are hypothetically possible but not without our technological ability, are a likely explanation for what is powering the craft being observed by the military and others. Gravity based propulsion could hypothetically reach near light speed at which point, time condenses to near zero. (speed's effect on time dilation has been established by NASA)

 

[LoavulLou]

Alien life forms though. Almost definitely exist. Highly improbable that they do not. The one thing I have doubts about though is that we assume it’s possible for crafts to travel light years in distance. We assume there must be some highly advanced civilization capable of it. That to me, is a huge assumption to make. Other than our imaginations, there is no proof that such an advanced civilization exists or that it’s even possible. So many variables there that we take for granted.

This is the correct answer.
If you even assume that "life" exists somewhere out there. You have to then have life forms that are capable of (a) space flight, (b) trans light speed, and (c) doing it right now and not in the past.

Everything on Earth was damn near perfect for life and it took 3 Billion years for us to just get an unmanned craft to Mars.

Maybe there were dozens of these super races of aliens just 20 thousand years ago, we'd never know. How about a million years ago? 100 Million? What if there are 100s of alien races that can already walk upright but don't even have a wheel yet? They don't count.

 

[cat_chaser]

I watched this. First off the Brit that tried to make arguments against Lazar's statements on physics exposed his stupidly. That and his "little green men" disparaging comments revealed to me that he was more interested in debunking the story than reading Lazar's body language.

"Chase" said he was 50/50 on truth vs fiction. This makes sense. Lazar has been scrutinized to death by zillions of people so it's no surprise that he chooses his words carefully, hesitates and thinks at times so as not to give someone another reason to attack him.

I remain skeptical regarding so-called body language experts. Every human is different. They have their own unique mannerisms and ways of speaking. Using one-size-fits-all decoding techniques seems to me to be not an extremely reliable way of finding the truth. Lazar on the other hand has passed several lie detector tests.

In summary if I were sitting on a jury and these guys were presenting their case I would not be convinced that they actually knew what they were talking about. I would say Lazar comes across as infinitely more credible than these guys.

Agree completely with this. No way to tell how someone’s body will react when talking about a subject as sensitive as what Lazar is. Even if he’s telling the truth it’s gotta be very uncomfortable and nerve racking and I’d assume the body would react as such.

 

[bkingUK]

I would say that the serious investigations are not "assuming" but rather hypothesizing explanation(s) for the craft that are being observed and their unworldly behavior. At this juncture gravity based propulsions systems which are hypothetically possible but not without our technological ability, are a likely explanation for what is powering the craft being observed by the military and others. Gravity based propulsion could hypothetically reach near light speed at which point, time condenses to near zero. (speed's effect on time dilation has been established by NASA)

Let’s assume it’s possible to achieve light speed. Distance traveled over time is not the only challenge. Time dilation caused by relativity would mean that in most cases the humans that watch the craft leave would not be the humans who see them return.

And even if possible other mitigating factors like radiation and health risks to body remain a threat.

Then factor that there’s likely a lot we don’t know and risks we don’t even know to dream about...

It all could be possible, of course, but it also could be a mass delusion of the human mind. That’s also why space is fascinating,

 

[RunninRichie]

You guys got all of this wrong. Aliens are 6th dimensional beings. They could be sitting here right in my living room, but I wouldn’t be able to see them because they are in another dimension that I can’t see. They are likely all around us, watching us and only appear when they want us to see them.

 

[IdaCat]

So there was an item buried in the Covid stimulus bill that directed the Pentagon to release an unclassified report about UFOs. I think it's due sometime in June.

I've never seen this much interest and excitement on this subject.

 

[Pickle_Rick]

The senior officer who was roswell wrote a confession before he died of what he saw at Roswell. He said the “aliens” werent aliens at all, they were actually humans who time travelled 80k years back from the future to warn the US about nukes. They traveled to the only place in the US that had nukes (roswell air force base). A similar incident happened in the UK at a base. A black triangle touched down in the forest and a army major touched the spaceship. He said it was a black triangle and inside were humans from 40k years ago. They were so advanced they didn’t even understand our language.

The problem of time travel is 2 fold. The travelers from the future either know they crash, and take steps to prevent the crash so that they succeed in their mission, and once they have succeedded in their mission, it abrogates their need to return to the past.

Think of it this way... time travel would be amazingly useful, so if time travel were invented, the traveler would send the machine back to the past, or the plans at least, so the time machine could be duplicated. Since this has not happened, it will not ever happen.

Leave time travel to the pro's... the Avengers.

 

[Pickle_Rick]

Let’s assume it’s possible to achieve light speed. Distance traveled over time is not the only challenge. Time dilation caused by relativity would mean that in most cases the humans that watch the craft leave would not be the humans who see them return.

And even if possible other mitigating factors like radiation and health risks to body remain a threat.

Then factor that there’s likely a lot we don’t know and risks we don’t even know to dream about...

It all could be possible, of course, but it also could be a mass delusion of the human mind. That’s also why space is fascinating,

Einstein posits that as your velocity grows, so does your mass. That's why you can never achieve lightspeed. Your mass reaches infinity. How much energy is required to accelerate an. infinitely dense object? An infinity amount. It's a zero sum game.

Any interstellar travel will require wormholes, where you step outside traditional euclidean space and pop out in another spot. Zero time passage.zero time passage means the cessation of entropy. With zero enttopy, you can achieve zero mass, and display the sort of maneuvers a ufo displays.

Ps. Im.not ready to state whether UFO's are aliens or not. It could just be the minions of Lucifer in a long con. The point is, we have no idea, so all ideas are valid.

 

[BigSexyCat]

The most likely scenario is that the Pentagon wants more money and this UFO **** is a orchestrated farce to get to that end. Those videos don't get "accidently leaked" unless some higher up gives his permission and as far as those objects in those videos are concerned a lot of 12 year old whiz kids could do better.

 

[Spanish Radio]

Christopher Mellon, a former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence has basically admitted he leaked a few of them.

 

[RunninRichie]

The most likely scenario is that the Pentagon wants more money and this UFO **** is a orchestrated farce to get to that end. Those videos don't get "accidently leaked" unless some higher up gives his permission and as far as those objects in those videos are concerned a lot of 12 year old whiz kids could do better.

they’ve been slowly exposing us to aliens so we don’t get shocked when they release them. Think of ET, all the video games and UFO **** in media.

 

[Lord Z]

Historically in times of potential National unrest the reports of UFOs and Bigfoot skyrocket. The message is you need to be protected and fear is an important component of compliance and control. Aliens are among us... who is going to save us?

 

[thabigbluenation]

Historically in times of potential National unrest the reports of UFOs and Bigfoot skyrocket. The message is you need to be protected and fear is an important component of compliance and control. Aliens are among us... who is going to save us?

AOC will negotiate for us. their spaceships better be running carbon free or she will threaten higher taxes and a have 16 yr old autistic white girl threaten them with her facial expressions.

 

[wildcatwelder_rivals]

Pretty clearly one of two things is happening:

1. An advanced civilization manifesting technology we can't even imagine or describe, much less match, is traveling trillions of miles for reasons we can't even articulate, and instead of announcing their arrival for some reason they are hiding and darting around in a way that we can't even provide any evidence of it by anything but ambiguous eye witness accounts.

2. There are some natural phenomena generated on earth that we can't understand creating optical illusions and even effects that show up on some instruments, along with the mis-identification of things like Venus and conventional aircraft and occasionally secret test weapons.

It could go either way.

I've always held the belief that, given the overwhelming likelihood of huge numbers of planets that inhabit the "golden zone" of their host star, that other intelligent species being in the cosmos was a given.

Up until a few years ago, I'd never given much credence to UFO sightings; attributing it to, as you said, natural phenomena, vivid imaginations, etc, etc, etc to the likely causes.

One evening three years ago, I was walking out to the garage to get something and took a few minutes to star gaze. Almost immediately, I noticed what I thought was most likely a helicopter, watching it travel through the sky, although a little ways away from me, so that had there been prop wash I would not have heard it in any event. Just then, the object stopped dead in mid air , which was quite unusual I thought, so I continued watching it. It literally "sat" in one spot in the sky for almost 10 minutes, and I was just about to say the hell with whatever the hell it was, when it took OFF. I don't mean the object accelerated speed and disappeared, no, this thing went, literally, from Zero to afterburner supreme, because it was across the sky and gone in TWO SECONDS FLAT.

Do we have secret abilities unknown to the public? Of course we do, but I seriously doubt we've ever come within a tiny fraction of the ability of that thing that night. Since then, I've begun to believe it's quite possible we've been visited, although for what fathomable reason, outside of us being their closest zoo, I have no clue.

 

[Deeeefense]

Do we have secret abilities unknown to the public?

I discount the theory that we (or some other nation) has secret super technology on the basis that we didn't just start seeing these things this year although they have become much more interesting in the last couple. People have been seeing craft that possesses these characteristic from at least as far back as the early 1950s. That's when jet propulsion was the latest and greatest thing.

 

[thabigbluenation]

I discount the theory that we (or some other nation) has secret super technology on the basis that we didn't just start seeing these things this year although they have become much more interesting in the last couple. People have been seeing craft that possesses these characteristic from at least as far back as the early 1950s. That's when jet propulsion was the latest and greatest thing.

based on cave drawings around the world, man has been seeing these things since we learned how to paint on rock walls.

 

[wildcatwelder_rivals]

I discount the theory that we (or some other nation) has secret super technology on the basis that we didn't just start seeing these things this year although they have become much more interesting in the last couple. People have been seeing craft that possesses these characteristic from at least as far back as the early 1950s. That's when jet propulsion was the latest and greatest thing.

Agreed good sir.

 

[Wildcats1st]

Very true, but the key is colonization. If a civilization reaches a point technologically where they can expand to other inhabitable planet(s) then they have a chance to carry on indefinitely. This is why Elon Musk and other future thinking people are strongly advocating not just visiting Mars but colonization.

musk is trying so whats already been done. This isn’t the first intergalactic rodeo. The only difference betweeen musk and intelligent life many millennia ago is that they the aliens actually inhabited a viable planet whereas musk has his eyes set on a toxic cesspool

 

[Wildcats1st]

The senior officer who was roswell wrote a confession before he died of what he saw at Roswell. He said the “aliens” werent aliens at all, they were actually humans who time travelled 80k years back from the future to warn the US about nukes. They traveled to the only place in the US that had nukes (roswell air force base). A similar incident happened in the UK at a base. A black triangle touched down in the forest and a army major touched the spaceship. He said it was a black triangle and inside were humans from 40k years ago. They were so advanced they didn’t even understand our language.

if there were time travelers there would be nothing but peace. Every inequity would be righted and there would be zero war zero nukes. Humans in 80000 years? I don’t think so. Not on this planet. And I certainly don’t buy the warning the US bit. What alien or 80000 year time traveler would give a shat or know about a USA? More bs.