UK football notebook: Tandem of strength coaches gives Cats more muscle
- Thread starter wildcatman26
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Thanks for the link, loved this quote "When you have guys who want to bust through the doors to get here, that tells you something,” Edmond said. “It tells you something about where you’re going as a team.”
This is a fantastic article. I had no idea of this connection but I have been saying for some time now that this may be as important of a hire as Gran and Hinshaw, this article only strengthens my argument.
And I think it will all go hand in hand, they will feed off of each other, what you're talking about is just the offensive side of the ball, what the strength coach brings is to both side of the line of scrimmage. My main thought has been what this will do for our defensive line in particular, but it will benefit the whole team without a doubt.
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Hopefully this will head us in the right direction.The numbers we have seen with Stamps and Forrest should tell us that we don't have all that much ground to make up on the defensive side(as some of those predicting 4 or 5 wins were so quick to point out the losses on that side of the ball)the folks who step in may be an upgrade right out of the gate
I just don't know what measure anyone could use to say these guys, vs. the previous guys, made a difference in the number of games we win. Seems you'll be able to draw whatever conclusion you want to fit the outcome.
My question is how do you judge when an S&C program is working then? Why not just hire some HS coaches on the cheap for $50k each. Good S&C coaches make a difference and you can notice it on the field, you can measure it, and you can see it. The normal person could tell our team last year was weak and got pushed around by EKU and Miss State. That is not a talent disparity that is a team that was weak physically and it showed the weakness in our S&C program.
I am basing my conclusion on the fact that player development(which a lot of folk on here have complained about) is not 100% position coach related, the S&C as well as HP coaches have a major impact on player development. The position coaches teach the techniques necessary, but the S&C and HP coaches are tasked with developing the players body into one that is fitting of an SEC caliber player. That is why I personally think that the hiring of Mark Hill is going to help. We did not loose or replace a S&C coach, we only added one, and from all reports, he is a damn good one and one that our current S&C coach has worked with before and recommended as well. Another set of eyes on the players, twice as many players can be watched and motivated at the same time now. I think it will help push the players in the weight room, that plus the fact that CE and MH are very simpatico from working together before. They are on the same page even before they get to work here together. The fact that the players are showing up early to workouts and are wanting to stay longer than they are mandated is very encouraging to me. This subtle little difference can make all the world of difference on the field. I think that this is a component of winning football that we have been lacking in. THAT is why I draw whatever conclusion I want to fit the outcome.
You just repeated my question back.
All I asked is how do you measure the difference on the field. You say you can measure it. Just tell me how that is done. Being stronger doesn't mean you can block better, run better routes, know where to be on defense. Give me a smart player over a stronger player any day.
For whatever reason, the newer recruits seem to not be sold on Korem's program, which I think is a shame. The program obviously worked for those who put in the effort, and was a unique selling point to recruits.
This looks like a good transition, since apparently we wont be renewing Korem's contract once it expires.
This looks like a good transition, since apparently we wont be renewing Korem's contract once it expires.
I will respond to both questions in your previous posts to make it simpler and more efficient. In addressing Grin and Hinshaw as more important than the previous S&C coaches a couple of things to take into account:
* we did not replace the entire S&C staff - only let go of one lower level assistant and Korem is no longer working with or handling football. Corey is still there and brought in Mark Hill to help develop the players. The players and staff inside the program will tell you that those that trained under Corey did better and developed more than those under Korem. You can choose to believe this or not but this is first hand info.
* supporting the info above is the fact that Stoops brought Korem with him from FSU and gave him a huge salary as a first time head S&C coach, and after a couple of seasons has removed him from working with the players and brought in another person to work with the team. That should tell you a lot about the situation.
*Some are asking or stating "well he is still here so he must be good and everyone hyped him as the high performance guy and will do wonders for the team?" If you look back at the articles and info on Korem it was Korem himself who was promoting Korem - go back and read the article from July of 2015 of last year. All of the flattery in the article from some women who supposedly said "we are tying a rope to you so you don't leave" to all of the hype about how fast the players were and how many were over 20mph running speed... Korem's background is speed and nutrition so he basically emphasized what he knew which was speed. Did the players test better speed wise - yes. Did it show on the field to the naked eye and in terms of wins - don't think so. Did our strength as a team show up as deficient where we got manhandled at the line of scrimmage by most SEC teams and even EKU and ULL? Yes. Did Stoops have enough of paying his high performance guy $250k to not produce results, tout himself as a guru, experiment on players instead of developing them, and thus get demoted? Yes.
Don't think Korem is a bad guy and he knows aspects of high performance such as stress management, sensory deprivation techniques, speed training... Those are components of an S&C program. Problem is to neglect key parts so you can emphasize and focus only on what you know hurts the team. It would be like a golf pro only working with a golfer on their driver off the tee since that is what they knew best, and neglecting their iron play, short game, and putting.
As far as Gran and Hinshaw they should have an impact on the team but I would say it will be to a lesser extent than an S&C coach. One they only work with half of the players so they will not impact the defensive side of the ball directly. Better field position, more points... will help the team but not the defense directly. Two - the S&C is allowed more contact with the players especially during the summer, and they are the de facto coach who sets the tone. Make all of the players stronger, bigger, and faster will definitely help the team improve. Two guys with the same football IQ will be separated by speed and strength - it is not mutually exclusive to say you will take smarter players over stronger ones. You can develop strength and speed, and to not recognize this ironically enough is not very smart.
Those that bought in flourished. But suddenly all the internal rumblings of "its too hard" started and finally surfaced last year. I think the staff had to make a change because players didnt want to do it anymore. Players like Bud and Z stayed last year and trained with Korem, and blew away the combine. This year Forrest and Stamps didnt, and they laid an egg. A huge one.
Ya, its plausible his system was just broke. But its much more likely the group of players we had just didnt want to do it anymore. The change in attitude just cost Forrest and Stamps quite a bit of money. Because theres no way they grade out THAT poorly had they put in the work under Korem after the season.
There's also a big difference in training for the Combine, aka The Underwear Olympics, and a 12 game SEC football season. Bud and Z trained with Korem for the combine and put up impressive numbers, but were their actual football numbers that impressive? Both of them were criticized by experts leading up to the draft for not having the on-field production to match their impressive shorts and t-shirt combine numbers. We all know they were both great players for us, but from a production standpoint I don't think you would look at their time here at UK and say they were flat-out dominant for any extended stretch of time. They both had the raw ability to be dominant at times, but didn't show that consistently. Bud had Von Miller athletic ability, but he wasn't drafted until mid-late 1st round because he didn't have Von Miller production.
Korem should honestly open up a combine training center somewhere. He can get those broad jumps, 40 times, 3 cone drill, etc up pretty quickly. Unfortunately, I don't think we've seen Korem do anything to help anybody's tackles for loss, yards after contact, or 3rd and short conversion %.
I believe Edmond & Hill are making a combined $400-500K at UK whereas Gran & Hinshaw together are well north of $1M. Net, if my salary estimates are correct, why would Stoops pay two guys whom you claim will have a lesser impact on the team overall, 2X+ what he pays the more valuable S&C coaches, iyo? Doesn't make sense to me.
I'm not arguing bigger/faster/stronger isn't preferred everything else being equal, but rarely is everything else equal. Give me a little slow guy at DE/OLB who knows to cover the QB on the read option over one with better physical attributes who goes for the RB no matter what & I'll take the former.
Do you really think D1 coaches let go of S&C coaches THEY brought with them from FSU, who uprooted their family to come to UK only to let him go because "the players thought it was too hard and didn't want to do it anymore?" Really???
It is the going rate for Oc's and DC's versus an S&C coach. Top coordinators make over $1 million to $1.5 million. Top paid S&C coach is Alabama's who I believe is making $540-550k. The pay for S&C guys has climbed quickly as teams build larger facilities, layer more trainers, strength coaches, speed coaches, nutritionists... under them resulting plus teams trying to sign established guys away results in higher pay. The S&C program can help every team at a university and make kids better in all sports by making them faster, stronger, bigger, jump higher, reduce injuries...
Yes but it had nothing to do with their physical prowess. One draft video of Bud raved about his physical abilities, but was pretty harsh in saying he basically had no technique other than overwhelming people with athleticism.
It was their technique. Not their conditioning.
From where I sit, it looks like that was a major factor; yes. Everyone's bodies were changing. All the performance numbers improving. Our injuries down DRASTICALLY. We were changing the way strength and performance were approached. And dont forget the huge incline that cost tons of money to build.
Then it leaked that the players didnt like it, and it was too hard. Shortly after, it was made known we wouldnt renew his contract. Even after we'd just wrote a check giving him everything he wanted in terms of a facility. Im sure they wouldve just wrote the check for the new facility and incline had there been problems all along. The only possibility remains was the major locker room divide, and the staff/program capitulated. Not saying I necessary blame the staff; you cant have everyone quit. But it says alot about some players, to think they spoke anonymously saying it was too hard; and us having a 2nd half collapse 2 years in a row.
From what I have read the players never said it was to hard. The issue was the players felt like lab rats. Korem spent to much individual time testing and not enough with the actual strength and conditioning. Stoops comment that the players are not used to how hard they are working out now under Corey and Mark contradicts what you are saying about Korem program being tough.
You can't look at Bud,Avery, and Big Z and give Korem all the credit. These 3 guys have God given traits that not all players are given especially Bud. The Steelers said Bud was there best rookie but they also said he needs more strength. Korem is no longer in charge of S@C for a reason.
If he was so bad, whyd they give him a blank check to build whatever he wanted? Then after the near mutiny, announce his contract wouldnt be renewed? It doesnt add up.
There is info out there about what happened without selling out sources and info - some of which cannot be shared. I do think your premise as to why would they let him build it and then kick him out speaks loudly as to how much conviction there was to let him go. The facility they are building is going to be a great one to help develop the players, but it is not the only one of its kind. With college facilities, whether it is a new arena, training facility, dorm, field house... every school looks at what has just been recently built and copies the best and newest features. Our facility while great has the same features as Bama, UT, K-State, Colorado... and a bunch of others. All have nutrition bars, tutoring stations, indoor running hills, 30-60 foot cold tubs, underwater treadmills, 20% body weight treadmills for rehab which makes a 200 lb athlete run with only 40 lbs of body weight stressing their legs...
You hate to say it but Korem has been running around bragging in S&C circles that he is a guru, has created the facility for training that everyone should copy, is irreplaceable, is a speed guru... His whole goal has been to get his PhD so he can write books, and used UK players as lab rats for his methods. He cites Bud and Z who were already developed as evidence so he can use their successes down the road to attract clients and sell books, videos, and training modules - maybe get someone to finance a training facility like APC in Arizona or IMG in Florida. That is where the money is without having to deal with 100 college athletes. Agents pay big money to train their guys in January and February to prepare for the draft which is probably what he is aiming for.
Kids did not sell him out and say it was too hard - coaches realized his talk and his walk were not matching up and kids were not getting better under him and those under Corey were doing much better. Why is that?
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Maybe everything youre saying is true. I have no info. Just deductions.
Of course the staff will say everything is better under the new coach they hired. What do you expect them to say? "Ya we hired a new person. But hes a clear step down". Maybe he really is. But you cant just take a statement like that and accept it as gospel.
Korem's fate was sealed when UK was getting pushed all over the field by EKU. And no, there hasn't been any marked change in the bodies of the football players since Korem's arrival. Elam and the OL as a whole are prime examples.
Confirming what's more valued & thus what the HC thinks is more important to the team. Thanks.
Your joking right? All these kids playing at this level know football. The difference is size strength speed. If being smart was so damn important over size and speed why does Harvard not win the national championship?
It's a facility that UK owns. Korem will be gone but the facility is not going with him lol. UK had to invest regardless just so happens Stoops wasn't satisfied with Korem and he is gone. Building the facility was part of Stoops plan.
They are not extending Korem. I am not really getting your point. They went after Hill to help Edmonds run the S@C program because Hill credentials are rediculus. Hill and Edmonds are best friends and focus on actual S@C plus have a great working relationship. If Korem was so great why is he no longer in charge of football S@C?
3kids - I don't understand the blind following for Korem nor the excuses made for him. If anyone has seen his past resume plus his success(or lack of it) here I don't know why they would support him. If they knew the truth behind his self aggrandizing behavior they might understand what is really going on. All sizzle no steak would be the correct explanation.
I agree! 2 season ending implosions. Players just are not in the kind of shape Stoops expects. He is not replacing Korem because he's exceeding expectations.
Well you can have all three. And you're exaggerating. Smart 2* can outperform dumb 4* ones. That was my point. The performance of our DE/OLB against LV's read option was horrendous with constantly falling for the RB fake.
I'll disagree on the speed part. This UK team is much faster and looks like they 'belong' on the field with the Floridas of the world. Strength training is definitely an issue but yes, our players are indeed faster. KendallCat is on a mission to discredit everything that Korem has done at UK, not sure if he slept with your wife or what, but the grudge you have against the man is pretty petty. There are actually other components to S&C than just weightlifting. Just because a guy is not a good fit for managing the S&C of an athletic team doesn't mean his work is without merit. Some people are just not leaders or managers.
If he was as bad as you say he would have been let go by UK. Big difference between not renewing his contract and firing a guy. Tells me they have seen some benefit to his programs but his leadership style doesn't fit and he perhaps puts too much importance on speed vs strength or whatever.
If he was as bad as you say he would have been let go by UK. Big difference between not renewing his contract and firing a guy. Tells me they have seen some benefit to his programs but his leadership style doesn't fit and he perhaps puts too much importance on speed vs strength or whatever.
They wouldnt give a blank check to someone and let them design the facility if they didnt have faith in him at the time; basically one year prior to deciding not to renew his contract. Doesnt make sense.
We all know theyre not renewing his contract. Korem was removed likely due to the near mutiny by the players because they thought it was too hard. Everything was fine, hed just been extended and given a blank check along with the design privileges for the new facility. If he truly wasnt working out, no way they give him this many concessions. Maybe it wasnt the mutiny. But theres way more to the story. We may never know what.
Their hate for him is bizarre.