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UVA and Bennett

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RanDEVILman

Senior
Jan 13, 2014
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Just saw where UVA lost to a pretty bad BC team last night. I know Bennett is a great coach. But this just shows you how tough it is. We have multiple threads about Roy, Brad Stevens got blasted for his job last year (by some media, not all). Meanwhile K has been doing this job for basically 40 years and has had very few bad moments, meanwhile dealing with 1 and dones, and rule changes, and everything else. Glad UVA is down right now, because it helps Duke win the ACC, but more just thought about how tough it is to be continually great in this sport.

Note: I know full--well that UVA and Bennett may be great again soon, just the score prompted this thought. Thats all.
 
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LetsGoDuke83

All-Conference
Feb 21, 2019
1,549
2,239
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Bennett got real lucky with hunter staying last year and he had 3 nba calibur players which helped him when it all. Playing his style of bball with non nba talent will only win so much which is showing this year.
 
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HuffyJB

All-Conference
Jan 13, 2005
5,931
3,890
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Bennett is as good as any coach at implementing his system. But looking at him, and last year's run in particular, should give us increased appreciation of the guy we have. K has Duke in the hunt just about every year, which is really remarkable. Last year for UVA was the absolute equivalent of catching lightning in a bottle. They required four consecutive extremely unlikely miracle finishes, in which everything had to go exactly like it did. They were also the first team in the history of the NCAA tournament to both win a title without ever having to play a 1 or 2 seed, and to never play the highest available seed at any point in their run (and only one other team has done each of those things individually). That is not to say that they weren't a worthy champion, because they were. I am just illustrating that for even a team of that quality to get over the hump, they had some luxuries that literally no other team has ever had. Every team that wins a title needs a little luck, but I don't ever look at K and think that everything has to fall just so for him to hang a banner.
 
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lakeside420

Junior
Jan 19, 2011
989
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When you lose your top three scorers you are going to struggle offensively. Their new players have to pick it up for them, they are still going to be in the tourney this year.
 
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mo.st.dukie

Junior
Jan 20, 2007
4,460
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Also shows that relying on 3-4 year players can be just as volatile as relying on OADs. Look at both UVA and UNC. Both relied on multi-year players to get their recent championships, both had early tournament exits in the years leading up to those championships, both are struggling in the years after their talented 3-4 players exhausted their eligibility. You also never know when a guy may leave earlier than expected. It is REALLY difficult in today's college basketball world to string together 4,5,6 years of high level winning and deep tournament runs. That run we had in the late 80's through early 90's, we probably aren't going to see something like that in college basketball ever again.
 
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SwatX1

Heisman
Jan 4, 2011
8,336
10,579
68
LetsGoDuke83 said:
Bennett got real lucky with hunter staying last year and he had 3 nba calibur players which helped him when it all. Playing his style of bball with non nba talent will only win so much which is showing this year.
Click to expand...


Agree 100%. There are going to be games, especially in the tournament, where you have to be able to score, regardless of how good your D is
 
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IPSYCHOSIS

All-Conference
Dec 22, 2016
4,095
1,828
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I’m pretty sure he wasn’t expecting “3 nba caliber players” lol Jerome and Guy to leave. And if they all 3 were “nba caliber players” they developed in his system, and weren’t, then were, and won it all, then left. Who was Diakite last year . He’s not getting the one and dones so when guys leave that shouldn’t there’s gonna be a down year..... If you can even call 11-3 3-1 2nd in the Acc “showing “ something lmao. What is boy toy Roy Williams doing over there in turd hill?
 
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HuffyJB

All-Conference
Jan 13, 2005
5,931
3,890
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mo.st.dukie said:
Also shows that relying on 3-4 year players can be just as volatile as relying on OADs. Look at both UVA and UNC. Both relied on multi-year players to get their recent championships, both had early tournament exits in the years leading up to those championships, both are struggling in the years after their talented 3-4 players exhausted their eligibility. You also never know when a guy may leave earlier than expected. It is REALLY difficult in today's college basketball world to string together 4,5,6 years of high level winning and deep tournament runs. That run we had in the late 80's through early 90's, we probably aren't going to see something like that in college basketball ever again.
Click to expand...

That is an excellent point. There was a time (and some still do) where many lamented Duke's use of the "one-and-done," but in today's landscape, I'm not sure there is a better way to ensure you have a legitimately competitive talent level virtually every year. It has its issues, like basically starting over with new groups every year, but as you state I don't see an alternative philosophy that is more reliable.
 
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Liftee

All-American
Mar 6, 2011
3,199
5,513
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mo.st.dukie said:
Also shows that relying on 3-4 year players can be just as volatile as relying on OADs. Look at both UVA and UNC. Both relied on multi-year players to get their recent championships, both had early tournament exits in the years leading up to those championships, both are struggling in the years after their talented 3-4 players exhausted their eligibility. You also never know when a guy may leave earlier than expected. It is REALLY difficult in today's college basketball world to string together 4,5,6 years of high level winning and deep tournament runs. That run we had in the late 80's through early 90's, we probably aren't going to see something like that in college basketball ever again.
Click to expand...

You can add Villanova to that list. They've had a couple down years after championships because guys left earlier than expected and they didn't have the reinforcements to reload.
 
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DiehardDukeFan4Life

All-Conference
Jan 20, 2011
5,963
3,524
0
HuffyJB said:
Bennett is as good as any coach at implementing his system. But looking at him, and last year's run in particular, should give us increased appreciation of the guy we have. K has Duke in the hunt just about every year, which is really remarkable. Last year for UVA was the absolute equivalent of catching lightning in a bottle. They required four consecutive extremely unlikely miracle finishes, in which everything had to go exactly like it did. They were also the first team in the history of the NCAA tournament to both win a title without ever having to play a 1 or 2 seed, and to never play the highest available seed at any point in their run (and only one other team has done each of those things individually). That is not to say that they weren't a worthy champion, because they were. I am just illustrating that for even a team of that quality to get over the hump, they had some luxuries that literally no other team has ever had. Every team that wins a title needs a little luck, but I don't ever look at K and think that everything has to fall just so for him to hang a banner.
Click to expand...
Since you mentioned Coach K in your post it made me think of this video of a video that I saw on Facebook last night. I can’t remember his name but the guy in the video has a show on CBSSN and he was talking about how every year he tells people that Duke isn’t overrated but the Duke haters say Duke is overrated and he used Kenpom as an example to show that Duke isn’t overrated. He said since Kenpom has been out Duke has never been lower than 19th in Kenpom. I can’t remember the guy’s name though.
 
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HuffyJB

All-Conference
Jan 13, 2005
5,931
3,890
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Liftee said:
You can add Villanova to that list. They've had a couple down years after championships because guys left earlier than expected and they didn't have the reinforcements to reload.
Click to expand...

To that end: Duke has followed both of its championships this decade with Sweet Sixteen trips. There is only one other returning champion over that span that won multiple tournament games in the year following their championship: 2014 Louisville. There were even two teams (2013 Kentucky and 2015 UConn) who didn't make the tournament at all. This also speaks to K's ability to consistently field a quality team under any circumstances.
 
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Liftee

All-American
Mar 6, 2011
3,199
5,513
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Huffy, I have always felt that this is what separates Coach K and Duke from the rest of the field. Nobody is in the conversation for #1 every single year like Coach K is. People can say "oh, Duke should win every year with that talent." No, that's not how it works anymore. But are in the mix every year and no one can say that except us.
 
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dukiejay

Heisman
Mar 2, 2005
11,293
16,311
0
HuffyJB said:
Bennett is as good as any coach at implementing his system. But looking at him, and last year's run in particular, should give us increased appreciation of the guy we have. K has Duke in the hunt just about every year, which is really remarkable. Last year for UVA was the absolute equivalent of catching lightning in a bottle. They required four consecutive extremely unlikely miracle finishes, in which everything had to go exactly like it did. They were also the first team in the history of the NCAA tournament to both win a title without ever having to play a 1 or 2 seed, and to never play the highest available seed at any point in their run (and only one other team has done each of those things individually). That is not to say that they weren't a worthy champion, because they were. I am just illustrating that for even a team of that quality to get over the hump, they had some luxuries that literally no other team has ever had. Every team that wins a title needs a little luck, but I don't ever look at K and think that everything has to fall just so for him to hang a banner.
Click to expand...

Good post. I've always said a little luck is needed to win the whole thing....UVA got more than a little last year. Kudos to them, but it's something worth pointing out.

Winning in college basketball and what it takes is so minute. People have failed to see this over the years. Duke is no worse in 2018 because the foreign kid from Kansas hit a three, or last year because Goins hit a big a shot. If both of those guys miss then K is considered a better coach. Whereas, if UVA doesn't beat Purdue in the Elite Eight on that miracle ending everyone is saying today that Bennett's system doesn't work to win national championships.
 
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IPSYCHOSIS

All-Conference
Dec 22, 2016
4,095
1,828
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dukiejay said:
Good post. I've always said a little luck is needed to win the whole thing....UVA got more than a little last year. Kudos to them, but it's something worth pointing out.

Winning in college basketball and what it takes is so minute. People have failed to see this over the years. Duke is no worse in 2018 because the foreign kid from Kansas hit a three, or last year because Goins hit a big a shot. If both of those guys miss then K is considered a better coach. Whereas, if UVA doesn't beat Purdue in the Elite Eight on that miracle ending everyone is saying today that Bennett's system doesn't work to win national championships.
Click to expand...
K considered better? How? Hes the GOAT already period lol.
 
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IPSYCHOSIS

All-Conference
Dec 22, 2016
4,095
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I mean UVA’s in the “hunt” every year with the guys they get compared to us lol, that isn’t remarkable? Cville is a **** hole.
 
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dukiejay

Heisman
Mar 2, 2005
11,293
16,311
0
IPSYCHOSIS said:
K considered better? How? Hes the GOAT already period lol.
Click to expand...

Well, just because one is the best at what they do doesn't mean they can't be better. I mean, 14 Final Four's in better than 12, right?

Now, that works both ways too. If Gordon Hayward makes a half-court shot is K a worse coach with one less national championship? If Laettner doesn't hit the greatest shot in the NCAAT history, is K dogged for not winning it all with that team?

A lot of Duke fans tend to think Duke always controls their own destiny. Truth of the matter is....other teams, players and coaches are pretty good too.
 
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IPSYCHOSIS

All-Conference
Dec 22, 2016
4,095
1,828
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dukiejay said:
Well, just because one is the best at what they do doesn't mean they can't be better. I mean, 14 Final Four's in better than 12, right?

Now, that works both ways too. If Gordon Hayward makes a half-court shot is K a worse coach with one less national championship? If Laettner doesn't hit the greatest shot in the NCAAT history, is K dogged for not winning it all with that team?

A lot of Duke fans tend to think Duke always controls their own destiny. Truth of the matter is....other teams, players and coaches are pretty good too.
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Lol true. So basically what you’re saying is you need a little luck to win it all, and people are going to talk regardless of the outcome in a negative or positive way . I get it.
 
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IPSYCHOSIS

All-Conference
Dec 22, 2016
4,095
1,828
0
All I’m basically doing is (trying) defending Bennet lol. I think he’s a hell of a coach, where he’s at, with what he gets. I can’t type
 
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dukehokie

All-American
Jun 27, 2005
19,624
6,220
0
It’s not the players it’s the system. K is the most adaptable coach I’ve ever seen and it’s probably why he’s the greatest ever. Last night against BC, UVA had no quick hitter offensive plays to go when they needed a bucket with little time left. Their only option was a screen and curl for a wing three with Diakite. That’s horrible.

Bennett has a one trick pony in the pack line and he runs blocker mover religiously. It’s a typical system problem. When you have the exact mix of guys to run it, you look great. When you don’t, it’s mediocre.

It’s not lip service when K says he molds his pattern to the guys on his team. Pretty incredible stuff really.
 
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timo0402

Heisman
Feb 24, 2009
13,868
13,709
57
dukiejay said:
Good post. I've always said a little luck is needed to win the whole thing....UVA got more than a little last year. Kudos to them, but it's something worth pointing out.

Winning in college basketball and what it takes is so minute. People have failed to see this over the years. Duke is no worse in 2018 because the foreign kid from Kansas hit a three, or last year because Goins hit a big a shot. If both of those guys miss then K is considered a better coach. Whereas, if UVA doesn't beat Purdue in the Elite Eight on that miracle ending everyone is saying today that Bennett's system doesn't work to win national championships.
Click to expand...
You can add countless other plays from both sides to this. If VT or USF win at the end, or if Guy doesn’t get fouled at the end and make all three foul shots. It’s just so razor thin. My thing has always been- at least we have a team with an opportunity. Most and i mean nearly 99% Of programs cannot say that.
 
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timo0402

Heisman
Feb 24, 2009
13,868
13,709
57
dukehokie said:
It’s not the players it’s the system. K is the most adaptable coach I’ve ever seen and it’s probably why he’s the greatest ever. Last night against BC, UVA had no quick hitter offensive plays to go when they needed a bucket with little time left. Their only option was a screen and curl for a wing three with Diakite. That’s horrible.

Bennett has a one trick pony in the pack line and he runs blocker mover religiously. It’s a typical system problem. When you have the exact mix of guys to run it, you look great. When you don’t, it’s mediocre.

It’s not lip service when K says he molds his pattern to the guys on his team. Pretty incredible stuff really.
Click to expand...
I mean, it does have SOMETHING to do with the players. K always says he’s lucky to have had the players he has coached. All great coaches will credit where they are bc of the players they have coached. Let me give you an example:

If we had UNC’s garbage roster would we be as bad? Actually i just made your point, continue on.

#GOAT
 
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lyonhawk

Senior
Sep 8, 2003
1,157
477
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I think it’s pretty remarkable looking back at just the 2010s. In 10, 11, 13, 15, 17, 18, and 19 we were among the small handful of favorites going into the tourney. And in our “down” years we were still a 2, 3, and 4 seed.
 
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