I read the suit too, and never got the impression he was a "bad apple", just that he wasn't the ball player they thought he might develop into. Big difference between "bad apple" and not a Big 10 caliber player.
Vassar's allegations
- Thread starter Aging Booster
- Start date
I read the suit too, and never got the impression he was a "bad apple", just that he wasn't the ball player they thought he might develop into. Big difference between "bad apple" and not a Big 10 caliber player.
...the CBS article that staff called a secret meeting to ask if he was poisoning the team (my paraphrase)
Ah, I missed that.
"According to the complaint, Collins told Vassar in February 2015 that he "sucked," had a bad attitude and shouldn't expect to play anymore. Vassar said multiple teammates told him the coaches called a secret meeting without him to inquire if Vassar had a bad attitude and should be kicked off the team."
The CBS article doesn't say what the outcome was though. His teammates might have supported him.
Your thesis is 'new coaches run off players'. This is true.
The issue with Vassar: Collins recruited him. Collins knew him. Collins chose to use 1/13th of his scholarship resources on him. Then Collins ran him off, after he was on campus less than a year.
I don't like that.
I think CCC learns a valuable lesson here: only offer that scholarship if you're sure of it. I think he wasn't sure of it with JV, and it's come back to hurt the program's depth (mildly) and the program's stature (mildly).
Last edited:
Why is being honest with a kid and telling him his chances of playing are pretty poor without significant improvement "running him off"? I don't see it. Would you rather they lie to them about it?
NU was under no obligation to make a four year commitment to him. NU chose to do so. If you signed a four-year contract somewhere, I bet you'd be surprised if you were asked to leave eight months in.
That's the first tactic that many coaches use. They hope that the player will "get the message" and want to find a new school.
If you think that's what Vassar is complaining about, you have no idea. Johnnie is a good guy and very smart. I like him and I think you would too if you met him. He's not a dummy and not an 'uppity' jock. I don't know why you and Willycat feel that he is when you have no information and blindly defend NU. Maybe you have prejudices or are just an NU loyalist no matter what.
Sometimes, we can criticize NU and want Coach to do better without being turncoats, you know?
It's alleged (treading carefully here) by the coaches that his teammates did not defend him.
Either way, I don't think it matters most if a guy is a cancer on the team or if the coaches just want him gone to free up a scholarship. Coach Chris, don't give 4 years to kids unless you're sure you want them. Like Coach Fitz says, it's a marriage.
I agree with you. Once you get a signed NLI it's a marriage, and marriages take work. Jordan Ash seems to have accepted his role, clearly he is not part of the rotation but has not either quit or been forced off the team. Something very strange happened to JV, and since you are one of the only people who claim to know him, it is hard to believe he is a "bad apple".
You didn't answer the question. Would you rather the coach lie to a kid about his playing time prospects?
I'd rather have a coach honor his commitment. Wouldn't you?
In my opinion, it reflects very poorly on CCC's judgment to recruit a kid, make a four year offer, and try to rescind that offer within eight months of the kid being on campus.
Yes, be honest with the kid about playing time. But, based on the lawsuit, he was honest about playing time while also taking steps to isolate him from the team. In my opinion, JV was part of the team until he violated rules, based on that four year commitment. In CCC's opinion, he was part of the team until the point at which CCC realized that there was a reason that no other big name program had recruited him (which is to say, he couldn't play.)
Now, to you:
How would you feel if you signed a four year contract and, eight months in, you were told you weren't really in the future plans and, oh by the way, here's a broom?
Was it a four-year offer? Most scholarships are renewed annually, and actual four-year scholarships are rare.
Did Vasser get a full academic ride? Poor guy! Also...you're taking all the accusations verbatim which is a big mistake, because there are some major lies in that puppy.
Honestly, let's cut the crap and call this for what it is: another Carmody argument in an alternate form. The same people that have their pitchforks out for this also had their pitchforks out when Carmody was fired. It's so blatantly obvious...
Wrong. All NU scholarships are guaranteed for 4 years and have been for some time. Most other Big 10 schools adopted that practice, and it is now the rule for the Big 10.
Yes. NU has offered four year scholarships since they have been allowed.
Quote from CCC here (fourth paragraph from the bottom):
https://www.google.com/amp/www.chic...pt-1116-20161115-story,amp.html?client=safari
Actually, it's the crux of the issue:
Is it okay for a school to offer a four-year scholarship, then change the terms of the deal just eight months in?
Would it be okay if it were your kid? And how would you react if it happened?
*facepalm* He never changed the terms. He told Vassar he needed significant improvement to get playing time. Vassal didn't like hearing that and became extremely disgruntled.
As Fitzphile said, the fact that none of the team went to bat for JV should tell you a lot.
He agreed to a four-year athletic scholarship. He is currently on an academic scholarship, without the benefits of an athletic scholarship.
(As far as we can tell, there was no official wrongdoing and a possible example of fraud perpetrated by the NU staff in order to demonstrate the appearance of wrongdoing.)
I would say the modification - from athletic scholarship, with the additional benefits granted to scholarship athletes, to academic scholarship, absent those specific benefits - represents a change in terms. What would you call it? And how would you feel if it happened to you, or your kid, or your grandkid?
As I wrote earlier, I would say that the JV situation has had both a mild impact on on-court depth, and a mild negative impact on program stature (and, I'll add, a mild negative impact that has already been overcome by on-court wins). And I hope CCC learns from it.
And Vassar not partaking in summer workouts because he announced he would transfer doesnt affect the terms?
How many players had CC recruited himself? How many haven't worked out? Answer: 1. I think he's doing just fine with his recruits...
The university announced he was transferring and he was no longer on the team. His team commitments were done. The university commitments remained. This is a mutual opt out.
How would you feel if it happened to you? Do you think it's okay to simply 'change the terms' of a four year agreement eight months in? Is that common in your line of business?
The terms were never changed. Once Vassar said he was going to transfer, the school COULD have cut him loose, but they didn't! Keep digging, NUCat320. Maybe we'll rehire Carmody and you'll be happy again...
According to JV, "I told coach Collins I didn't want to leave." He was told to leave.
http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-ncaa-after-long-battle-over-his-scholarship/
How would you feel if it happened to you? Would you feel it was just? What if it happened to your kid, or your grandkid? In your line of business, do the terms of a contract typically get changed by either party eight months into a four year deal? I notice you've chosen not to answer these questions.
Now, to clarify:
I'm totally onboard with the program, and am enjoying this season greatly. If there were archives, you would find my thread CARMODY WAS FIRED AT THE RIGHT TIME. I think CCC has the chance to build something great here, and I'm excited to watch.
I'm also honest enough to believe that CCC made a mistake when he offered Vassar, and compounded that mistake with his and his staff's efforts to get him out of the program.
Presumably, you think all of this is Vassar's fault, because he accepted the scholarship offer.
Thanks for playing, Virginia. To everybody who is not Virginia: Sorry about the thread monopoly. I'm done (I hope).
Pinstripe Bowl, YES!
Yes, there are a great many lies coming from that complaint. Some real doozies actually...
As I said before, who the team stood with (Collins) says a great deal..
In your line of business, do the terms of a contract typically get changed by either party eight months into a four year deal?
You keep asking the same question, and I keep giving you the same answer. lol Terms were never changed.
Do you think CCC or Northwestern made any mistakes in the situation? What should Northwestern or Chris Collins or his staff have done differently?
I can only comment on Collins and not the U as a whole because I don't know details regarding then other stuff. As for Collins, I think he might have been a little verbally harsh with Vassar once JV started repeatedly complaining. Perhaps if he'd controlled his irritation things might have gone smoother. Vassar wanted to be coddled and Collins wasn't going to do that...
Like everything, it's those g-d millennials.
Thanks for playing, Virginia. Happy New Year to you. My resolution is to do this less.
Thanks for re-posting this. 1. Johnnie Vassar played high school basketball publicly for all to see. Northwestern observed him play , and offered him a 4 year scholarship. Vassar participates and NU decides he cannot help the team. Who made the mistake? NU...but they want Johnnie Vasser to pay for the mistake by leaving. It may be true that he did not have the basketball talent,,,it may be true that he was a rotten apple, it also may be false. Some will argue that NU honored their contract.....I would say that without rules and regs they would have gotten rid of him without any regard or compensation. Instead to achieve their goal of JV leaving and leaving his CONTRACTUAL scholarship as well they engaged in at least what can be described as disrespectful behavior. You may argue that everyone does it....you may argue that the rules force schools to do this....I guess you could ague a lot of things to justify disrespectful behavior. My belief is that Coach Collins is very competitive and could have dealt with this in a better manner.. It is hard in this day of huge money from college athletics to remember that the purpose of institutions of higher education is to educate....I know it sounds naive. But I would rather have seen Coach Collins work t help JV become a better person if indeed he was a rotten apple and try and develop hm to be a better player if he was not. CC pay for your own mistakes?.......or win at all costs? Not that I think CC is a bad guy ..just wrong in this circumstance of navigating the waters of big time college basketball.
Collins made a recruiting mistake. Do you think other coaches make when recruiting when offering 17 year old kids? Thus far he has gotten his education paid for by Northwestern University. He responds to this by suing the university. Rest case.
I take affront to your insinuating that my thoughts are based on prejudice As you said I have no idea if he's a good guy and or a jerk, just as you nothing about me. I've noted that when he was told that his playing time would be greatly curtailed, he choose to seek a transfer out of NU. Couldn't find a spot for himself at another school and stayed at NU on a basketball schlorship, while not playing basketball. Indirectly this has hurt his former teammates and when the university switches him from a basketball schlorship to an academic one, he chooses to sue. I'll be waiting for your apology.
What recourse does he have? Your above post (edit: turns out, that was loyolacat, which is why the immediate contradiction now makes sense...) seems to have nailed it: CC erred here.
But NU isn't giving him that scholarship that was promised, and it appears that NU already offered some sort of settlement, as reported.
Last edited:
willy...the chances Yesterday has ever actually spoken to Vassar is slim and none. Remember, this is a guy that used to claimed he was a female/mother of several children, and claimed Phillips sabatoged Carmody by directly denying Brozja (spelling?) admittence. You pretty much can't believe anything he says...he still has a massive grudge to hold...
Are you kidding? He could have transferred. He could have stayed on the team regardless of his playing time chances. He did neither, and NU still honored him as a student. Stop pretending he had no options. Interesting that you won't hold any blame over Vassar. Even his teammates wanted nothing to do with him..a point you keep ignoring...
Vassar erred as well. He erred when he sent out a tweet that he wanted to transfer to another school.
I don't think the Vassars need any help. They've pushed back and secured a four-year scholly which I've always been ok with. My question is, he was guaranteed the scholly worth hundreds of thousands, or he could take the bucket of money behind door number two. Not a bad deal. But that wasn't enough so he joined up on a class action against the NCAA and NU. (By the way, I agree with the assertion that it's b.s. coaches can move around like sailors in a whorehouse while the student athletes are held to a completely different standard). Presumably, he joined the complaint because, with his scholly secured, he lives a higher purpose to fix the system. So, if he's fixing the system, why throw around all the dirt on NU?
Vassar is no naif. God bless him for locking down the scholly and good for him on pushing back when the athletic department was trying to screw him our of the scholly (whether he earned it or not is not the point). But he's not exactly Mahatma Gahndi turning the other cheek. On the surface of the thing with the public facts presented he's looking to screw those who he views screwed him. So it's game on.
NU has not yet replied to the complaint. That's not going to be pretty for the kid. I'm not saying that it's all going to be one hundred percent truthful, but your not going be able to grow dandelions on that soil for a few years.
To answer your question directly, 320, no recourse was needed. Vassar had won. He had the scholly. Now he's taken it to another level.
So he leaves a nice impression. What's he like in the locker room, in practice, and amongst his teammates on campus?
What are the player's obligations that came with that scholarship? Did the athlete meet those obligations and expectations? Since basketball is a team sport, how well did he contribute to the team?
I would be absolutely delighted! An academic ride is as sweet as it gets! A 9-hour a week internship is a piece of cake compared to the time commitment needed for athletics. However, I'd want to play sports, wouldn't like the athletic department restrictions sports-wise, and would promptly transfer. JV doesn't appear to be interested in playing college basketball anymore or he would have transferred.
Hi everyone, I'm new to posting on this forum, but I'm a huge Northwestern fan. As far as Vassar is concerned, if the national letter of intent signed by a football player going to Northwestern is the same as a basketball player (which I would be shocked if it were different), then the NLI can be reduced or cancelled if the athlete "voluntarily withdraws from the sport at any time for any reason." Also, the NLI can be reduced or cancelled if the athlete "abuses team rules as determined by the coach or athletic administration." Also, the reduction or cancellation cannot happen mid-school year. So, in the case of Vassar, when he violated either or both of these rules, Northwestern was obligated to provide the benefits during the 2015-16 school year. After that, Northwestern can cancel the NLI he signed. Therefore, Vassar, theoretically, shouldn't be taking up an athletic scholarship anymore.
http://counsel.cua.edu/res/docs/NLRBNorwesternUCAPA.pdf
Go to page 8 on the right side to see this (this is based on football scholarships with Northwestern, but I highly doubt basketball scholarships are any different)
http://counsel.cua.edu/res/docs/NLRBNorwesternUCAPA.pdf
Go to page 8 on the right side to see this (this is based on football scholarships with Northwestern, but I highly doubt basketball scholarships are any different)