Very Good Article...

[donaldfair71]

30 Random Thoughts On Penn State’s Coaching Search 12 Days Into It

Black Shoe Diaries, a Penn State Nittany Lions community

www.blackshoediaries.com

I particularly think we need to keep #9 and #10 in mind:

9. Think back like five years. Mike Elko was the defensive coordinator at Texas A&M. Kalen DeBoer was in his first season as the head coach at Fresno State. Marcus Freeman was the DC at an AAC school. Curt Cignetti was an FCS coach.
10. I don’t mention those names to say they are all definitively better coaches than Franklin, but to point out that the next great head coaches are out there. They might be coordinators, they might be at G5 schools, perhaps they are assistants in the NFL. But, I promise you, there will be a coach hired this cycle or next that will be looked at as an “upgrade” over Franklin, even if that’s not obvious to us right now. It’s just Pat Kraft’s job to find that candidate.

Ahem, Bob Chesney, Alex Golesh, and Joe Brady.

 

[Bwifan]

30 Random Thoughts On Penn State’s Coaching Search 12 Days Into It

Black Shoe Diaries, a Penn State Nittany Lions community

www.blackshoediaries.com

I particularly think we need to keep #9 and #10 in mind:

9. Think back like five years. Mike Elko was the defensive coordinator at Texas A&M. Kalen DeBoer was in his first season as the head coach at Fresno State. Marcus Freeman was the DC at an AAC school. Curt Cignetti was an FCS coach.
10. I don’t mention those names to say they are all definitively better coaches than Franklin, but to point out that the next great head coaches are out there. They might be coordinators, they might be at G5 schools, perhaps they are assistants in the NFL. But, I promise you, there will be a coach hired this cycle or next that will be looked at as an “upgrade” over Franklin, even if that’s not obvious to us right now. It’s just Pat Kraft’s job to find that candidate.

Ahem, Bob Chesney, Alex Golesh, and Joe Brady.

Very close to my thoughts. Why some feel only a established HC should be the next coach I don't get. There are plenty of assistant coaches and coordinators who stepped up and have become great coaches. I am almost always in favor of that selection over retread head coaches expecting a different better result at PSU.

 

[NoSoup4U]

If thats the case

How about lookin at other types of sub divison winners?

South Dakota state
North Dakota state

Jimmy Rodgers now at WashSt ( not a final destination job)
Tim Polasek at North Dakota currently (has some iowa OL in his veins)

Here are some of Tim's thoughts going into this year

 

[donaldfair71]

If thats the case

How about lookin at other types of sub divison winners?

South Dakota state
North Dakota state

Jimmy Rodgers now at WashSt
Tim Polasek at North Dakota currently (has some iowa OL in his veins)

Heck yeah.

I don’t think there’s one person qualified for the job and that could do a very good job. I think there are several.

There are also those that just won’t be a good fit. Plus, you do have to get lucky on any hire. Just like draft picks or 5 star signees, some won’t work out. But I don’t think “biggest splash” will necessarily be best hire.

 

[cjrugger]

30 Random Thoughts On Penn State’s Coaching Search 12 Days Into It

Black Shoe Diaries, a Penn State Nittany Lions community

www.blackshoediaries.com

I particularly think we need to keep #9 and #10 in mind:

9. Think back like five years. Mike Elko was the defensive coordinator at Texas A&M. Kalen DeBoer was in his first season as the head coach at Fresno State. Marcus Freeman was the DC at an AAC school. Curt Cignetti was an FCS coach.
10. I don’t mention those names to say they are all definitively better coaches than Franklin, but to point out that the next great head coaches are out there. They might be coordinators, they might be at G5 schools, perhaps they are assistants in the NFL. But, I promise you, there will be a coach hired this cycle or next that will be looked at as an “upgrade” over Franklin, even if that’s not obvious to us right now. It’s just Pat Kraft’s job to find that candidate.

Ahem, Bob Chesney, Alex Golesh, and Joe Brady.

Interesting choice to use those examples of guys who all got other, bigger jobs before getting their current job

 

[Ludd]

Very close to my thoughts. Why some feel only an established HC should be the next coach I don't get. There are plenty of assistant coaches and coordinators who stepped up and have become great coaches. I am almost always in favor of that selection over retread head coaches expecting a different better result at PSU.

The problem with bringing in a coordinator or a coach from a lower level is they don’t have much to bring with them through the portal and our roster is going to need a rebuild.

 

[donaldfair71]

The problem with bringing in a coordinator or a coach from a lower level is they don’t have much to bring with them through the portal and our roster is going to need a rebuild.

True. Though I heard a national writer this week say something that blew me away: a grand total of 1 player that made all conf in the p4 transferred last year. Those kids either wind up in the NFL or staying.
That kind of made sense as there were few big hirings last year. But I think even moving forward your transfers will mostly be guys stuck low on a depth chart or from mid major schools.
I’ll ask you, do you think if you hired, say, Brian Hartline, that they could draw guys from other schools better than what Matt Rhule would bring from Nebraska?

 

[Psumatt85]

Heck yeah.

I don’t think there’s one person qualified for the job and that could do a very good job. I think there are several.

There are also those that just won’t be a good fit. Plus, you do have to get lucky on any hire. Just like draft picks or 5 star signees, some won’t work out. But I don’t think “biggest splash” will necessarily be best hire.

How about high school? Who is the next Jerry Faust?

cmon!

 

[LB99]

30 Random Thoughts On Penn State’s Coaching Search 12 Days Into It

Black Shoe Diaries, a Penn State Nittany Lions community

www.blackshoediaries.com

I particularly think we need to keep #9 and #10 in mind:

9. Think back like five years. Mike Elko was the defensive coordinator at Texas A&M. Kalen DeBoer was in his first season as the head coach at Fresno State. Marcus Freeman was the DC at an AAC school. Curt Cignetti was an FCS coach.
10. I don’t mention those names to say they are all definitively better coaches than Franklin, but to point out that the next great head coaches are out there. They might be coordinators, they might be at G5 schools, perhaps they are assistants in the NFL. But, I promise you, there will be a coach hired this cycle or next that will be looked at as an “upgrade” over Franklin, even if that’s not obvious to us right now. It’s just Pat Kraft’s job to find that candidate.

Ahem, Bob Chesney, Alex Golesh, and Joe Brady.

Personally, I think I would rather have Hartline than Brady. I think Hartline has been around really, really good college coaching long enough to know what it entails and hit the ground running as a HC.

 

[LB99]

Very close to my thoughts. Why some feel only an established HC should be the next coach I don't get. There are plenty of assistant coaches and coordinators who stepped up and have become great coaches. I am almost always in favor of that selection over retread head coaches expecting a different better result at PSU.

Agree here. I do not really want a retread.

 

[donaldfair71]

Personally, I think I would rather have Hartline than Brady. I think Hartline has been around really, really good college coaching long enough to know what it entails and hit the ground running as a HC.

Hartline would be right there at or near the top of my list. I just always think of him as being an Ohio State guy, never leave. That’s dumb for me to do since he’s apparently interviewed at Cincy and WVU.

 

[donaldfair71]

How about high school? Who is the next Jerry Faust?

cmon!

Whoa, obviously limits.
But there are far more people who could do a really good job for Penn State than “sitting P4 coaches”.
As the article alludes to, wasn’t that long ago that Drink was a coach at App State, that Elko was taking the Duke job. In 2030, we’ll look back at this cycle and see some clearly home run hires that haven’t even been mentioned on this here board.

 

[TOC_Lions44]

Chesney, Hartline, Huff. Guys like this should get a look.

 

[LB99]

Hartline would be right there at or near the top of my list. I just always think of him as being an Ohio State guy, never leave. That’s dumb for me to do since he’s apparently interviewed at Cincy and WVU.

Well, if Kraft and PSU are offering stupid money, then they may make him an offer he can’t refuse. Plus, watching the OSU meltdown when PSU takes their prodigal son would be epic.

 

[LB99]

Chesney, Hartline, Huff. Guys like this should get a look.

I’d throw Golesh in their too, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him at UF next year.

 

[Bwifan]

The problem with bringing in a coordinator or a coach from a lower level is they don’t have much to bring with them through the portal and our roster is going to need a rebuild.

What HC is coming here that will bring a wealth of talent? Urban, Saban? None of them are coming to PSU and any good HC current employer is not going to allow them to leave. So what current HC is willing to come to PSU? Rhule? There is not any out there willing to come here that will move the needle for me... I don't want a retread that will win 8-9 games a year like JF. Take a chance on an upcoming coach that will open things up for PSU. Hartline and several others are a good start for me.

 

[razpsu]

Very close to my thoughts. Why some feel only an established HC should be the next coach I don't get. There are plenty of assistant coaches and coordinators who stepped up and have become great coaches. I am almost always in favor of that selection over retread head coaches expecting a different better result at PSU.

Forgot to mention Ryan day. First head coaching gig. Osu.

 

[NoSoup4U]

The problem with bringing in a coordinator or a coach from a lower level is they don’t have much to bring with them through the portal and our roster is going to need a rebuild.

Yeah and? Who’s to say you want Nebraska’s recruits anywayif it’s Rhule. These recruits may leave and portal after year or they were given promises. Not sure you want that either ( see James Franklin). The landscape is too unpredictable to worry that they have no one to bring with them. Penn state should be able to sell itself. There will be plenty of starting spots if that what kids really want. You should be able to put a viable roster together via the portal and build from there.

Thats why I don’t get current commitments now looking elsewhere. You have a spot here do you want to play football or not? I get the familiarity with the coach that recruited has some weight but at the end of the day if you can play ball does it really matter?

why do players portal if the coach that recruited them is still there? So it’s not an end all be all factor.

 

[PSU Mike]

What’s the denominator? For each named, how many coaches were deemed in the same class, were given a chance, and didn’t break through?

 

[Ludd]

True. Though I heard a national writer this week say something that blew me away: a grand total of 1 player that made all conf in the p4 transferred last year. Those kids either wind up in the NFL or staying.
That kind of made sense as there were few big hirings last year. But I think even moving forward your transfers will mostly be guys stuck low on a depth chart or from mid major schools.
I’ll ask you, do you think if you hired, say, Brian Hartline, that they could draw guys from other schools better than what Matt Rhule would bring from Nebraska?

Possibly, but would there be enough of them? And how many high school players outside of Big Ten territory know who he is? I’m not sure his brand is big enough to draw big time players in.

 

[Ludd]

Whoa, obviously limits.
But there are far more people who could do a really good job for Penn State than “sitting P4 coaches”.
As the article alludes to, wasn’t that long ago that Drink was a coach at App State, that Elko was taking the Duke job. In 2030, we’ll look back at this cycle and see some clearly home run hires that haven’t even been mentioned on this here board.

Unfortunately the hot shot G5 coaches usually don’t turn out too well in the P4…Scott Frost, Luke Fickel, Neal Brown, and on and on.

 

[Ludd]

What HC is coming here that will bring a wealth of talent? Urban, Saban? None of them are coming to PSU and any good HC current employer is not going to allow them to leave. So what current HC is willing to come to PSU? Rhule? There is not any out there willing to come here that will move the needle for me... I don't want a retread that will win 8-9 games a year like JF. Take a chance on an upcoming coach that will open things up for PSU. Hartline and several others are a good start for me.

If we go that route, then Kraft and many of our fans better be ready to give him time and by time I don’t mean two years. It’s going to take a while even with the portal. Cignetti turned it around quickly by bringing his whole team with him.

 

[Ludd]

Personally, I think I would rather have Hartline than Brady. I think Hartline has been around really, really good college coaching long enough to know what it entails and hit the ground running as a HC.

We’re having so much luck with our current coach we snagged from OSU. All coaches will find you can be really good coaching with OSU’s talent.

 

[LMTLION]

I’d throw Golesh in their too, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him at UF next year.

I think there is a possibility he is the next Cignetti, but much younger. Many years as a positional coach at Illinois and then as a successful OC at Tennessee. I would rank him in our top 5 of realistically available coaches.

 

[donaldfair71]

Unfortunately the hot shot G5 coaches usually don’t turn out too well in the P4…Scott Frost, Luke Fickel, Neal Brown, and on and on.

Not wrong, good point. It’s the high risk/high reward move.
You have those guys (and many more), then the Drink/Campbell/Tressel/Urban experiences (And more).

 

[donaldfair71]

Possibly, but would there be enough of them? And how many high school players outside of Big Ten territory know who he is? I’m not sure his brand is big enough to draw big time players in.

I think his results with his WRs would sway people.
The kids eat that stuff up, and there are a lot of good players out there. Oregon rebuilt its OL via portal from mid majors or smaller schools in a year. Not sure any of them are altogether experts on Dan Lanning more than Brian Hartline. But can sell development and obviously raises.

 

[LB99]

We’re having so much luck with our current coach we snagged from OSU. All coaches will find you can be really good coaching with OSU’s talent.

Knowles was only at osu for 3 years, I think? And his defense there, despite top shelf talent, struggled the first year. Hartline has been at osu for a very long time with bounds of success as a position coach and a recruiter. Apples to oranges.

 

[Bwifan]

We’re having so much luck with our current coach we snagged from OSU. All coaches will find you can be really good coaching with OSU’s talent.

Who recruited much of that talent? Who developed much of that talent? Hartline's track record is totally different than Knowles. Plus Knowles was only there 3 years.

 

[donaldfair71]

We’re having so much luck with our current coach we snagged from OSU. All coaches will find you can be really good coaching with OSU’s talent.

He was tremendous at Oklahoma State as well. As respected as anyone in the profession.
Knowles is a very very good coach, and every program with an opening there will line up to hire him. The issues this year stem from a mismatch of personnel and really a lack of depth. Things outside his control.

 

[Ludd]

Who recruited much of that talent? Who developed much of that talent? Hartline's track record is totally different than Knowles. Plus Knowles was only there 3 years.

But he also had OSU’s brand and Ryan Day backing him up…that helps.

 

[Ludd]

I think his results with his WRs would sway people.
The kids eat that stuff up, and there are a lot of good players out there. Oregon rebuilt its OL via portal from mid majors or smaller schools in a year. Not sure any of them are altogether experts on Dan Lanning more than Brian Hartline. But can sell development and obviously raises.

It could, but a lot of his success stems from being at OSU. I don’t know how much that would carry over to PSU especially for WR’s.

 

[donaldfair71]

But he also had OSU’s brand and Ryan Day backing him up…that helps.

It could, but a lot of his success stems from being at OSU. I don’t know how much that would carry over to PSU especially for WR’s.

Therein lies the risk in the hire. It’s likely the most binary hire: it’s going to blow up, just don’t know which direction.

 

[Ludd]

Therein lies the risk in the hire. It’s likely the most binary hire: it’s going to blow up, just don’t know which direction.

Or it could max out at exactly where we’ve been under Franklin (which I think is much more likely).

 

[BobPSU92]

Therein lies the risk in the hire. It’s likely the most binary hire: it’s going to blow up, just don’t know which direction.

 

[donaldfair71]

Or it could max out at exactly where we’ve been under Franklin (which I think is much more likely).

See I think what happened under Franklin was such a unicorn scenario that we’ve rarely seen it and never will again.
Good enough to regularly be within a TD of every good team you play according to Vegas, and in reality likely on the field, yet rarely winning (and actually winning less as time went on).
Next guy will either not have the team good enough to be thought highly enough to be a 4 point dog every Ohio State game, or will and actually win those games sometimes.

 

[s1uggo72]

Chesney, Hartline, Huff. Guys like this should get a look.

Huff?? lol

 

[Bwifan]

But he also had OSU’s brand and Ryan Day backing him up…that helps.

Ryan Day didn't develop countless OSU wr in the NFL. Hartline recruited and developed them. Sure there is some risk with him, just like anyone. Rhule and his like HC are the safe play and they win as many games or less than Franklin. I don't want 8 win seasons.... I want to beat OSU Michigan and Oregon....you won't get that with Rhule and the other HC coaches like him being talked about for PSU. The ceiling is much higher with Key, Golesh and Hartline. Plus Hartline has the relationship with all the high school players and coaches already.

 

[Keyser Soze 16802]

I agree that I don't want a retread, but I suspect it's better for the AD if a retread fails than if an up and comer fails

Let's say PSU hires Gus Malzahn (horrifying I know). If he failed, Kraft could say well he won a NC as coordinator and played for one as a head coach and had some good years at UCF. We haven't played for a NC since 1986 so it seemed like a risk worth taking

Now let's say he hires an up and comer, If that guy fails, the big question is why did you roll the dice on this person? The answers wouldn't be simple

Jeff Lurie can roll the dice on Nick Sirianni because Jeff only answers to Jeff

So ADs are protecting their downside risk when they pick a retread

 

[donaldfair71]

I agree that I don't want a retread, but I suspect it's better for the AD if a retread fails than if an up and comer fails

Let's say PSU hires Gus Malzahn (horrifying I know). If he failed, Kraft could say well he won a NC as coordinator and played for one as a head coach and had some good years at UCF. We haven't played for a NC since 1986 so it seemed like a risk worth taking

Now let's say he hires an up and comer, If that guy fails, the big question is why did you roll the dice on this person? The answers wouldn't be simple

Jeff Lurie can roll the dice on Nick Sirianni because Jeff only answers to Jeff

So ADs are protecting their downside risk when they pick a retread

All correct.

Safer to fail conventionally than succeed unconventionally.

 

[uh-Clem]

I’d rather have a young coach who has exceeded expectations wherever he’s been, than a good coach, like Hartline, who has been at the same, dominant program with assets others struggle to match.