Viewer discretion advised

[atlkvb]

"free thinkers" only are encouraged to view this film, and investigate the Scientific claims behind it.

If your mind is closed or made up about how the Earth was formed, you won't find this evidence contrary to the popularly promoted Scientific view either interesting or believable.

http://isgenesishistory.com/

 

[op2]

I think it's about a billion times more likely that humans are having zero effect on climate change than I do that the Earth was formed like it says in Genesis. You're going from the merely crazy to the batsh*t crazy with that one.

 

[op2]

So I just watched the trailer. For so long humans knew so little about the reality of the world. Then over time via hard work and systematic investigation we've learned so much. And by now, with the Internet, so much information is available for free. You're basically sitting at a library right now.

Go read about all these things we've learned and as you read be aware that part of what makes it so amazing is that it's true! For most of human history humans would just make stuff up because of a need for security through knowledge. But know there is so much we don't have to make up anymore (as well as so much more that we don't yet know). Appreciate what we've come to know through hard work and investigation rather than listening to stories people have made up.

 

[atlkvb]

I think it's about a billion times more likely that humans are having zero effect on climate change than I do that the Earth was formed like it says in Genesis. You're going from the merely crazy to the batsh*t crazy with that one.

You're obviously a "free thinker" with that statement. So answer this question?

What specific time measurement do you use to determine exactly when the Earth formed? Exactly how long ago was that? Based on what?

Years? What's a "year" in your time measurement?

Eras? Relative to what starting point?

Time warps? Based on which dimension or characteristic of energy movement through specific periods of observable space?

This is all very Scientific, and quite interesting if your mind is truly "open" to all of the possibilities.

How do you know that your measurements are correct, and what is your specific instrument to measure your intervals in the answer?

Watch the movie, you may learn something.

 

[atlkvb]

So I just watched the trailer. For so long humans knew so little about the reality of the world. Then over time via hard work and systematic investigation we've learned so much. And by now, with the Internet, so much information is available for free. You're basically sitting at a library right now.

Go read about all these things we've learned and as you read be aware that part of what makes it so amazing is that it's true! For most of human history humans would just make stuff up because of a need for security through knowledge. But know there is so much we don't have to make up anymore (as well as so much more that we don't yet know). Appreciate what we've come to know through hard work and investigation rather than listening to stories people have made up.

I agree. Which is why this is so interesting. Why close yourself off to investigation when as you admit there is so much more we simply do not know as we learn more and more every day?

I agree with you 100%.

The Scientific discovery is not only exciting, but needed to put so many lies perpetrated today as fact to rest.

 

[op2]

You're obviously a "free thinker" with that statement. So answer this question?

What specific time measurement do you use to determine exactly when the Earth formed? Exactly how long ago was that? Based on what?

Years? What's a "year" in your time measurement?

Eras? Relative to what starting point?

Time warps? Based on which dimension or characteristic of energy movement through specific periods of observable space?

This is all very Scientific, and quite interesting if your mind is truly "open" to all of the possibilities.

How do you know that your measurements are correct, and what is your specific instrument to measure your intervals in the answer?

Watch the movie, you may learn something.

I'm not an expert in the field (and neither are you nor are the people that made that movie). If you truly want to know these things you can do research.

Here are my answers from the knowledge in my head but again I'm not an authority.

The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old. We can't say "exactly" how old, for one thing because it happened so long ago and for another because we didn't go from "nothing resembling an earth at all" one day to "a completely formed earth" the next. It was a gradual process.

A year is the time it takes the earth to go around the sun. I know geologists speak of eras but I don't know what they are since I'm not a geologist. I don't know what you're getting at with time warps.

You don't need to have literal belief in all the Bible stories, like the earth was created from scratch in six days, to be Christian. Plenty of people are Christian but also acknowledge science. For the Bible to be literally correct on this count would mean several fields of science are wrong.

Here's a Wiki page on the age of the earth. Read it and enjoy it and appreciate the knowledge humans have discovered by their hard work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth

 

[op2]

I agree. Which is why this is so interesting. Why close yourself off to investigation when as you admit there is so much more we simply do not know as we learn more and more every day?

I agree with you 100%.

The Scientific discovery is not only exciting, but needed to put so many lies perpetrated today as fact to rest.

Why do you close yourself off to the possibility of a flat earth? Or to the possibility that the sun goes around the earth instead of vice-versa?

You act like this is an open field of science where Genesis and the current scientific account are equally plausible and that people are just being closed minded by discounting Genesis. Genesis lost this battle long ago. Move on already.

 

[atlkvb]

If you truly want to know these things you can do research.

The movie is about the Scientific research into this matter Op2. It's a comparison/analysis of whether the story in Genesis is either supported by or refuted by the Scientific investigation.

Amazingly, Science confirms its (Genesis') story much more forcefully than the other widely believed view (Big Bang)

Go see it and decide for yourself.

Be a "free thinker".

 

[op2]

The movie is about the Scientific research into this matter Op2. It's a comparison/analysis of whether the story in Genesis is either supported by or refuted by the Scientific investigation.

Amazingly, Science confirms it's (Genesis') story much more forcefully than the other widely believed view (Big Bang)

Go see it and decide for yourself.

Be a "free thinker".

If "science confirms" it then why do the people in the various scientific fields that devote their lives to studying this disagree that "science confirms" it? Do you think maybe the people making this move could just be wrong?

 

[TarHeelEer]

You don't need to have literal belief in all the Bible stories, like the earth was created from scratch in six days, to be Christian. Plenty of people are Christian but also acknowledge science. For the Bible to be literally correct on this count would mean several fields of science are wrong.

There is one conflict that cannot be avoided. The Bible says humans were first, sin, then death because of sin. Evolution says death came first, then humans. Evolution and the grand story of the Bible both cannot be true.

 

[atlkvb]

Why do you close yourself off to the possibility of a flat earth? Or to the possibility that the sun goes around the earth instead of vice-versa?

You act like this is an open field of science where Genesis and the current scientific account are equally plausible and that people are just being closed minded by discounting Genesis. Genesis lost this battle long ago. Move on already.

Why do you "close off" the story in Genesis? If it's unproven by Scientific discovery or as you suggest the story has "lost the battle", what does the actual Scientific research into it's claims reveal?

That's what the movie and the research is all about.

So who's being "close minded"?

I didn't say the Earth was "flat". Or that the Sun revolves around the Earth. We know through Scientific research neither of those two false statements are true.

So if Science reveals Genesis to be a hoax, what's the problem?

Easy to settle it as fake wouldn't you agree?

So go see the movie and judge for yourself if Science proves Genesis a hoax, or remarkably accurate in describing exactly how the Earth was formed.

What have you got to lose instead of your belief in "fake Science"?

 

[op2]

There is one conflict that cannot be avoided. The Bible says humans were first, sin, then death because of sin. Evolution says death came first, then humans. Evolution and the grand story of the Bible both cannot be true.

I don't know what that means. Things have always lived and died. Evolution doesn't talk about sin nor should. I don't know what you're getting at but in 2017 there is no need for people to believe in Biblical literalism.

 

[atlkvb]

If "science confirms" it then why do the people in the various scientific fields that devote their lives to studying this disagree that "science confirms" it? Do you think maybe the people making this move could just be wrong?

Yes I do. Which is why research into both claims is needed to confirm what is true and what is false.

I'm not afraid of that inquiry, why are you closed to it?

You're the one dismissing Genesis. I'm open to seeing what the Science confirms.

News flash...it doesn't confirm Evolution or the "big Bang"...in fact both those theories are thoroughly defeated under pure Scientific research.

 

[op2]

Why do you "close off" the story in Genesis? If it's unproven by Scientific discovery or as you suggest the story has "lost the battle", what does the actual Scientific research into it's claims reveal?

That's what the movie and the research is all about.

So who's being "close minded"?

I didn't say the Earth was "flat". Or that the Sun revolves around the Earth. we know through Scientific research neither of those two false statements are true.

So if Science reveals Genesis to be a hoax, what's the problem?

Easy to settle it as fake wouldn't you agree?

So go see the movie and judge for yourself if Science proves Genesis a hoax, or remarkably accurate in describing exactly how the Earth was formed.

What have you got to lose instead of your belief in "fake Science"?

Given current knowledge, a flat earth or the sun going around the earth are equally plausible as Biblical creation. That's why I mentioned them. Why do you have a closed mind on a flat earth? Because we know from science that it's not true? Yeah, and we know from science that Biblical creation isn't true too. Same thing. The fact that someone makes a movie about Biblical creation doesn't change it. There's probably a movie out there somewhere about a flat earth or at least a book or some articles.

Why are you getting your science from movies instead of science books?

 

[op2]

Go argue with these people for awhile and then you'll know how I feel now.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/

 

[atlkvb]

The fact that someone makes a movie about Biblical creation doesn't change it

It's not a movie about "Biblical creation" Op2. It's a movie investigating the claims of Genesis, which if I'm to believe your argument is easy to prove as "false"

So is it?

Is there "Scientific" inquiry that proves Genesis is false? Seems to me that's an easy question to substantiate. If you're correct, that Science has already done so--then it should be easy to dismiss the Scientists and their research revealed in this film.

Go see it, and decide for yourself if their Scientific research is bogus? It's a Scientific film Op2...fascinating Science. No "Religion" in it at all. It only asks questions about Genesis, and follows the Scientist's exploration into it's claims.

I'd think you'd want to see it as proof of your claim that Genesis is bogus.

 

[TarHeelEer]

I don't know what that means. Things have always lived and died. Evolution doesn't talk about sin nor should.

You can't read at all can you? No wonder you're never an expert in anything.

II don't know what you're getting at but in 2017 there is no need for people to believe in Biblical literalism.

Jesus came to earth to free us from sin, because sin causes death (physical and spiritual). Adam sinned causing the first death of any and all creatures. There is no need for the latter if the former is not true. Historicity(science, go figure) all but proves Jesus existed and the accuracy of the gospels.

Evolution, as I said before, has the order of death and humans opposite. I did not mention sin in regards to evolution. The Bible and evolution are not compatible. I don't have to have a "literal" interpretation of the Bible to disregard evolution historical theory as postulated today as false. There are plenty of cut corners and inconsistencies in evolutional historical theory that someone who has attempted to validate what they're taught could find fault.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Jesus came to earth to free us from sin, because sin causes death (physical and spiritual). Adam sinned causing the first death of any and all creatures. There is no need for the latter if the former is not true. Historicity(science, go figure) all but proves Jesus existed and the accuracy of the gospels.

Having said that, I'm also not of the 6,000 year creation believer, either. I'm in the I don't know how long belief now. I've evolved.

 

[atlkvb]

The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old

So are these "earth years" ...as in 365 days=one year?

So when did the Earth start "rotating" around the Sun to begin measuring 1 day=24 hours...which is the time it takes for the Earth to make one full revolution (turn) facing a point against the Sun?

Who started that measurement Op2?

 

[op2]

You can't read at all can you? No wonder you're never an expert in anything.



Jesus came to earth to free us from sin, because sin causes death (physical and spiritual). Adam sinned causing the first death of any and all creatures. There is no need for the latter if the former is not true. Historicity(science, go figure) all but proves Jesus existed and the accuracy of the gospels.

Evolution, as I said before, has the order of death and humans opposite. I did not mention sin in regards to evolution. The Bible and evolution are not compatible. I don't have to have a "literal" interpretation of the Bible to disregard evolution historical theory as postulated today as false. There are plenty of cut corners and inconsistencies in evolutional historical theory that someone who has attempted to validate what they're taught could find fault.

So are you saying that at one point on earth no creatures died? And that death only began after one man sinned? If so I don't think you're going to find a lot of science to agree with you. Death has been happening for as long as life as been happening.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Death has been happening for as long as life as been happening.

That part we can agree on.

 

[atlkvb]

Death has been happening for as long as life as been happening.

True!

But the question is what came first, and how?

 

[op2]

So are these "earth years" ...as in 365 days=one year?

So when did the Earth start "rotating" around the Sun to begin measuring 1 day=24 hours...which is the time it takes for the Earth to make one full revolution (turn) facing a point against the Sun?

Who started that measurement Op2?

When they say a year is 365 days they mean in terms of today. I realize that in the past it's possible that the earth didn't rotate at the exact same speed as now or maybe (I don't know) it didn't go around the sun at the same rate.

They've looked into all this stuff you know. Believe it or not there are smart people who spend their lives on this.

 

[op2]

True!

But the question is what came first, and how?

What what came first? What life same first? I don't know but it was some very simple form. How did it come about? I don't know but that general field is called abiogenesis. I don't think it's know exactly how the first life happened. Put God in that gap if it makes you feel better.

 

[TarHeelEer]

So are these "earth years" ...as in 365 days=one year?

Here's where I get lost, and why I am now at I don't know.

The universe is still expanding, and our time relative to past is slowing down. Time was faster previously as we were... smaller... then. Who's day measurement from where? What is 24 hours? Too deep for me.

Not only that but the 6,000 year calculation via Bible chronology is off.

 

[atlkvb]

For the Bible to be literally correct on this count would mean several fields of science are wrong.

Exactly!

Which is what the movie investigates.

If Science is correct, then the Bible is most assuredly wrong. The corollary of that is also possible.

The movies considers both.

Go see it! Decide for yourself...that's all I'm suggesting.

 

[op2]

Exactly!

Which is what the movie investigates.

If Science is correct, then the Bible is most assuredly wrong. The corollary of that is also possible.

The movies considers both.

Go see it! Decide for yourself...that's all I'm suggesting.

Believe it or not I've seen and read plenty of stuff along these lines over the years. If it ever does turn out that entire fields of science are wrong I don't expect the revealation will come from a documentary film. There are lots of documentary films. You can pick one to prove just about anything you like.

 

[atlkvb]

What what came first? What life same first? I don't know but it was some very simple form. How did it come about? I don't know but that general field is called abiogenesis. I don't think it's know exactly how the first life happened. Put God in that gap if it makes you feel better.

I'm not willing to "put" anything into category Op2. I'm perfectly content to let Scientific inquiry answer that question.

I'm good with whatever Science confirms. You're the only one totally dismissing Genesis, when it has in fact been subjected to the very Scientific inquiry you desire to at least promote as disproving it.

I'm open to discovery. More Science, investigate ALL claims. Science can be the great arbiter. Keep what Scientifically is proven as feasible, discard that which it proves is bogus.

That's all this movie is about.

 

[atlkvb]

Believe it or not I've seen and read plenty of stuff along these lines over the years. If it ever does turn out that entire fields of science are wrong I don't expect the revealation will come from a documentary film. There are lots of documentary films. You can pick one to prove just about anything you like.

True. I'm just not as willing to close off one explanation in favor of another as you apparently are. I just want to see it all.

 

[op2]

Exactly!

Which is what the movie investigates.

If Science is correct, then the Bible is most assuredly wrong. The corollary of that is also possible.

The movies considers both.

Go see it! Decide for yourself...that's all I'm suggesting.

The same question keeps coming up though. Why aren't the thousands and thousands of people that spend their lives studying this stuff convinced by this movie? You're telling me to go see it. Forget me. How about a geologist. Any geologist can go see it. Why doesn't a geologist go see it and then change his mind? Can you at least consider the possibility that geologists simply thing it's nonsense?

 

[op2]

I'm not willing to "put" anything into category Op2. I'm perfectly content to let Scientific inquiry answer that question.

I'm good with whatever Science confirms. You're the only one totally dismissing Genesis, when it has in fact been subjected to the very Scientific inquiry you desire to at least promote as disproving it.

I'm open to discovery. More Science, investigate ALL claims. Science can be the great arbiter. Keep what Scientifically is proven as feasible, discard that which it proves is bogus.

That's all this movie is about.

Science has done this already and it continues to do it every day. And it doesn't do it in documentary films or wacky websites. Genesis was believed long ago by just about everybody in the Christian world. Getting people to discard their long held views wasn't easy but the evidence finally convinced them. Now we're in 2017 and you're talking alike it's 1717.

 

[atlkvb]

Any geologist can go see it. Why doesn't a geologist go see it and then change his mind? Can you at least consider the possibility that geologists simply thing it's nonsense?

Geologists who spend their lives studying rocks and how they formed are quoted quite extensively throughout the movie Op2.

Go and see what they had to say about it all. It's actually very interesting. (if you like Geologists)

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

You're obviously a "free thinker" with that statement. So answer this question?

What specific time measurement do you use to determine exactly when the Earth formed? Exactly how long ago was that? Based on what?

Years? What's a "year" in your time measurement?

Eras? Relative to what starting point?

Time warps? Based on which dimension or characteristic of energy movement through specific periods of observable space?

This is all very Scientific, and quite interesting if your mind is truly "open" to all of the possibilities.

How do you know that your measurements are correct, and what is your specific instrument to measure your intervals in the answer?

Watch the movie, you may learn something.

Ahhh! There's the rub. Time!

We only know time as it exists for us today which is totally artificial based on certain knowledge and assumptions. I don't think anyone doubts today that "a day" can be segmented into 24 hours (based on rotations). But until 1581 we calculated the calendar for the year differently than we do today. Gregorian vs. Julian calendars.

And since it is a totally artificial methodology, would we know what a day or a month or a year was like millions or even billions of years ago? I think there's a place for some science to establish criteria, but how we know what happened when exactly is something that can't be known.

 

[atlkvb]

Can you at least consider the possibility that geologists simply thing it's nonsense?

Yes, definitely Op2. If that's what they found when they checked into it.

But that's NOT what the Geologists who's Scientific research into this subject concluded Op2.

The movie explains why, and allows them to reveal the results of their Scientific research.

It's fascinating. But you're dismissing them as a bunch of "kooks"

 

[atlkvb]

Ahhh! There's the rub. Time!

We only know time as it exists for us today which is totally artificial based on certain knowledge and assumptions. I don't think anyone doubts today that "a day" can be segmented into 24 hours (based on rotations). But until 1581 we calculated the calendar for the year differently than we do today. Gregorian vs. Julian calendars.

And since it is a totally artificial methodology, would we know what a day or a month or a year was like millions or even billions of years ago? I think there's a place for some science to establish criteria, but how we know what happened when exactly is something that can't be known.

Precisely.

So how do we know that all of our calculations about the Earth's current age are correct if we're basing those calculations on something as amorphous as our current time/space measurements?

Which is what the movie explores, and attempts to answer. It's obvious the current known Science being presented as "proof" of the Earth's current age is not an accurate measurement.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

"free thinkers"

I did a little research and everyone of the "Scientists" used in the movie is described as an avid creationist and is a member of one of two "Creationist Research" groups, paid mouthpieces. A different kind of media bias?

http://creationwiki.org/Is_Genesis_History?_(film)

I'm not saying that their opinion was wrong, it's just that the trailer led me to believe that this was independent scientific research when it is not so.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

Precisely.

So how do we know that all of our calculations about the Earth's current age are correct if we're basing those calculations on something as amorphous as our current time/space measurements?

Which is what the movie explores, and attempts to answer. It's obvious the current known Science being presented as "proof" of the Earth's current age is not an accurate measurement.

Agreed, and that's what we will never know because we can't know if our current perception of "time" can hold up for longer than what we can record for ourselves.

I would liken it to the weather reports when a record high or low temperature is indicated, they weathercaster almost always says... "since records have been kept" or references a starting date for recorded temperature.

I'm of the opinion, however, that the earth is probably much older than we surmise and that, like climate change (no pun intended) stuff happens either over longer periods of time that we really can't measure or that some things are much shorter events, but not able to be reliably determined or measured.

 

[atlkvb]

I did a little research and everyone of the "Scientists" used in the movie is described as an avid creationist and is a member of one of two "Creationist Research" groups, paid mouthpieces. A different kind of media bias?

http://creationwiki.org/Is_Genesis_History?_(film)

I'm not saying that their opinion was wrong, it's just that the trailer led me to believe that this was independent scientific research when it is not so.

The same argument can be made by Scientists promoted as "objective" who have a built in bias against Creationism.

Amazingly none of them can explain how what they dismiss (Creation) came into existence! Yet summarily rejected by almost all who choose not to believe the Bible's account of that, is the simple explanation that it was indeed 'Created'. so simple a child can understand it, so complicated an educated Adult drowns in it.

It is True, neither the Scientists who dismiss it or the Bible tells us how that's (Creationism) so, but one uses it's belief or (non) belief to refute the other.

The Bible doesn't claim anything else not to be true, it stands as Truth to be tested against all else claiming to be such.

I love the Science into it's claims...because the more it is investigated Scientifically, the stronger my belief in it becomes.

So I'm for all investigations Scientifically, all inquiry, all examination of the all of the evidence. The Bible holds up remarkably well scientifically, historically, religiously, authentically by ancient manuscript, culturally, philosophically, or any other way it's evaluated.

It's Inspiring.

 

[op2]

Agreed, and that's what we will never know because we can't know if our current perception of "time" can hold up for longer than what we can record for ourselves.

I would liken it to the weather reports when a record high or low temperature is indicated, they weathercaster almost always says... "since records have been kept" or references a starting date for recorded temperature.

I'm of the opinion, however, that the earth is probably much older than we surmise and that, like climate change (no pun intended) stuff happens either over longer periods of time that we really can't measure or that some things are much shorter events, but not able to be reliably determined or measured.

Are you a geologist or a scientist in some other field that involves using methods to date ancient things? If not, consider how it looks to just say "I think they're wrong." How is it that the earth is much older than 4.5 billion years and you know it but the people that study it are just wrong? Does that sound strange?

I don't know the details of how they determine those ages but I think some of them depends on the rate at which certain elements decay. Half-lives. There's no reason to believe that the current laws of chemistry were different then.

BTW, when they say 4.5 billion years they mean as a year is measured now. That doesn't necessarily mean the earth has gone around the sun 4.5 billion times. Perhaps (I have no idea) the rate at which the earth went around the sun in the early stages of the earths existence was faster or slower than it is now. But it doesn't matter as far as calling the earth 4.5 billion years old.

 

[atlkvb]

Agreed, and that's what we will never know because we can't know if our current perception of "time" can hold up for longer than what we can record for ourselves.

I would liken it to the weather reports when a record high or low temperature is indicated, they weathercaster almost always says... "since records have been kept" or references a starting date for recorded temperature.

I'm of the opinion, however, that the earth is probably much older than we surmise and that, like climate change (no pun intended) stuff happens either over longer periods of time that we really can't measure or that some things are much shorter events, but not able to be reliably determined or measured.

Totally agree with you. There is no way we can "know" for sure how old it (Earth is) but that's not what Evolutionists either believe or teach. They seem to suggest or know exactly how old the Earth is, and when you turn up the microscope into their research it is riddled with holes in their investigative methodology.

Again, I'm open to what we still don't know. I also know there is much we will never know for sure, because we are so very limited in our ability to both learn and understand all that we have yet to learn and understand.

But I'm good with the inquiry, I'm OK with more research, investigations, questioning. Not only because that's how we learn more, but it also helps us understand what we do know and what we can test against what we've discovered to be true.

We suspect the Earth is likely older than what we currently understand, but it could just be a lot younger than even we might ever learn measured against the vastness of the known Universe and the concept of infinity, where time and space do not measure nor can they be.