Wanting to build a smaller house and need advice

rmattox

New member
Nov 26, 2014
6,786
886
0
Heading toward 60. I'd like to downsize to a house with 500 to 1000 sq feet. I'd prefer the 500 but wife wants at least the K.
I'd like something simple but with about 6" of insulation in the walls, 12" in ceiling, 3 pane windows. An alternate source of power to reduce utility costs. Thinking about a poured basement with the 500 sq ft house, but wife likes the two story idea better (don't see much of a difference).

What would it cost to build something like this? Any ideas on how to keep it toasty in the winter but have very low utility bills?

Any experience with the Amish builders in the central Ky area?
 

krazykats

New member
Nov 6, 2006
23,768
2,330
0
In central KY you'd have to go Amish I believe. Here in Louisville it's Amish or Mexican, but it depends how far out you are.

I know a few builders in the Brandenburg area if that helps.

As far as cost, the difference is huge between a poured basement(20-30K) and a framed 2nd floor(maybe an extra few thousand material wise).

There is a product called Zip System that may not be doing much in your area but with it and the right insulation you should be good.

I work at 84 Lumber, and if you have any questions not answered around here I'll help where I can.
 

Teachable Moe

New member
Mar 19, 2015
2,708
876
0
Long ago, I knew one of the first guys to design solar houses around here. In the 70s, he bent over backward on passive solar, siting, etc. To do an efficient house cheaply he told me around 30 years later, just use more concrete for the walls. Thermal inertia is your friend. As for size, you might have trouble finding a mortgage company willing to pick up the note for something around 500 sq/ft. That would fall into the category of "limited market" for them. I'm sympathetic, but even 800-1000 sq/ft is iffy for resale. (in 10 years they'll be common, I bet.) We built 20 years ago and had trouble finding a general contractor who'd build under 2000 sq ft. (We insisted we didn't want more @1800 and eventually found a builder.) Good luck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AustinTXCat

rmattox

New member
Nov 26, 2014
6,786
886
0
Long ago, I knew one of the first guys to design solar houses around here. In the 70s, he bent over backward on passive solar, siting, etc. To do an efficient house cheaply he told me around 30 years later, just use more concrete for the walls. Thermal inertia is your friend. As for size, you might have trouble finding a mortgage company willing to pick up the note for something around 500 sq/ft. That would fall into the category of "limited market" for them. I'm sympathetic, but even 800-1000 sq/ft is iffy for resale. (in 10 years they'll be common, I bet.) We built 20 years ago and had trouble finding a general contractor who'd build under 2000 sq ft. (We insisted we didn't want more @1800 and eventually found a builder.) Good luck.

Forgot about the concrete house option. Thanks
 

Free_Salato_Blue

New member
Aug 31, 2014
4,475
922
0
What would it cost to build something like this? Any ideas on how to keep it toasty in the winter but have very low utility bills?

Move to Tucson, AZ get solar panels.

I thought this was going to be a thread about tiny houses.
 

rmattox

New member
Nov 26, 2014
6,786
886
0
Move to Tucson, AZ get solar panels.

I thought this was going to be a thread about tiny houses.
I watch the show about tiny houses regularly. My wife "forced" me to go to IKEA with her a couple summers ago. They had small houses set up in the building (not the exteriors, but the interior house with all furnishings). They had one with just under 600 sq ft. It was amazing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AustinTXCat

AustinTXCat

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2003
51,567
29,245
113
I watch the show about tiny houses regularly. My wife "forced" me to go to IKEA with her a couple summers ago. They had small houses set up in the building (not the exteriors, but the interior house with all furnishings). They had one with just under 600 sq ft. It was amazing.
My wife watches the tiny house show faithfully. We nearly went with an 84 Lumber floor plan (Elkview model, 576 sq ft) for a second home in the Harrogate, TN area, which sits on the KY border, but decided to hold off until the Middlesboro KY house is sold.

Great thread. Keep the comments coming.
 

Kooky Kats

New member
Aug 17, 2002
25,741
15,702
0
Sips panels are prefab, closed-cell insulation panels which give ridic U-Value to your house... One thing, building too tight can lead to 'sick' houses which is similar to legionnaires disease. Need air changes in house so be careful with your mechanical system selection.

Triple pane Windows or argon filled windows are a waste.

Face the front of the house south.
http://www.sips.org
 
Last edited:

Big_Blue79

New member
Apr 2, 2004
52,487
846
0
I watch the show about tiny houses regularly. My wife "forced" me to go to IKEA with her a couple summers ago. They had small houses set up in the building (not the exteriors, but the interior house with all furnishings). They had one with just under 600 sq ft. It was amazing.

It's MY 483 feet. Living in the NYC area, I am always amazed at the cleverness people come up with for small spaces.
 

krazykats

New member
Nov 6, 2006
23,768
2,330
0
That's right on zip panels, but it's a good product and there are other ways for a house to breathe.
 

We-Todd-Did

New member
May 2, 2007
2,711
941
0
I like the small house trend but keep in mind what your needs will be as you get older. Design in wider doors and a simple, open floor plan. I like the tiny houses but climbing a ladder to get in bed isn't for octogenarians.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rmattox

rmattox

New member
Nov 26, 2014
6,786
886
0
I like the small house trend but keep in mind what your needs will be as you get older. Design in wider doors and a simple, open floor plan. I like the tiny houses but climbing a ladder to get in bed isn't for octogenarians.
Right. If we build one with 500 sq ft on the main floor, most of it would be open. Prefer to be able to have everything we'd need on the main floor. A second floor would be for kids/grandkids.
 

krazykats

New member
Nov 6, 2006
23,768
2,330
0
So why not pour abase net and buy a double wide to sit on top of it? Out of pocket max on that would be about 70K.
 

joeyrupption

New member
Jun 5, 2007
8,686
2,278
0
Heading toward 60. I'd like to downsize to a house with 500 to 1000 sq feet. I'd prefer the 500 but wife wants at least the K.
I'd like something simple but with about 6" of insulation in the walls, 12" in ceiling, 3 pane windows. An alternate source of power to reduce utility costs. Thinking about a poured basement with the 500 sq ft house, but wife likes the two story idea better (don't see much of a difference).

What would it cost to build something like this? Any ideas on how to keep it toasty in the winter but have very low utility bills?

Any experience with the Amish builders in the central Ky area?
6" of insulation can have different effectiveness depending on the type of insulation used. Become conversant in R-values of insulation types. Find out how much you would like to achieve and then calculate the necessary thickness to achieve your desired R-values (and overall U-values) and compare pros and cons of the different types, including cost.

You would have to check a lot of boxes before the payback on alternative source of power makes much sense for a 1,000sf house. If you are budget conscious at all, and have normal utility access you shouldn't waste your time with alternative energy considerations. I have a feeling that Tesla's home battery product (and the like) will make your 2016 solution feel like an 8-track-esque blip in technology in the coming years - especially if you plan on staying in this home until you die.

Your biggest asset in reducing energy costs will insulating and sealing the building envelope.

Secondarily, focus on orientation to the natural environment (specific site). The orientation to the sun (and any immovable shade creating objects) is the priority. Orientation to prevailing winds is the second major factor in this. The long axis of the building should run east-west to maximize the south facade and its windows.

You should aim for window surface area of roughly 5% of the total sf of the house. The vast majority of these will be on the South facade to allow low Winter sun to penetrate deep into the interior space. Extend roof overhangs to block the higher summer sun from entering the space and added unwanted additional heat.

Determine how late in the winter/spring you would want additional heat from the sun to heat your house. Then enter in you site location and the date on NOAA's sun tracking calculator to determine the altitude angle of the sun at 12 noon on that day. In a sectional drawing, use this angle to draw a line beginning at the lowest edge of your typical southern window extending up and away from your building to the sun. Then, extend the top face of your roof pitch line until it intersects your original "12 noon cut-off day sung angle line." This intersection will give you the optimal depth of your roof overhang to allow winter sun to enter your house until the day you want it to stop.

For an aging couple, you should build a one story house - no basement or second floor. The difference between a basement and second story is the fact you can get natural light, ventilation, and egress (in the event of fire/emergency) from windows on a second story. A basement is a dark deathtrap by comparison.

I would look into local historical home design of your geographic area from before the advent of central heating and air. Those structures were designed to passively take advantage of their climate as much as possible.

You should set off to design a house in this manner as if you were ignorant of modern technology for the most part (except for spatial/plan requirements). Then go back and augment it with modern technology (better insulation, etc.)

In the end, you should buy a trailer. It will lose just as much value as your Eco-tiny home (since there won't be a market when the fad passes), but you will have a lot less headaches in the process and get a home that was put together in a controlled factory environment rather than a one-off that was built in the elements.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tinker Dan

Free_Salato_Blue

New member
Aug 31, 2014
4,475
922
0
I like some the interesting concepts with shipping containers. I always wonder though if they have a "tinny" acoustics inside.


http://www.homedsgn.com/2011/06/16/containers-of-hope-a-40000-home-by-benjamin-garcia-saxe/

Overall a tiny is would be fine if you don;t have kids and LOCATION, location, location.
I would not mind a small space like a tiny trailer house if it's parked near a beach with a great sunset to see every day.
Some those trailer seem rather expensive if you factor in a heavy duty truck to pull it.
Wonder if a decent RV would be better?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tinker Dan

dgtatu01

New member
Sep 21, 2005
8,673
506
0
If you're going to be in KY or nearby I would go with a concrete house. Like an earlier poster said though, you need an active air exchange system to make sure the air is being circulated out and in as they can be very tight. You get all the wind and weather protection I could imagine you would ever need. If you build on top of a hill, you could harvest wind and solar energy when it is available if you are so inclined. I would say though you're most pressing priority is going to be lot selection and finding a builder who will make your 500-1000 sf home a priority when they have other customers building 3000 sf homes. I have several friends doing remodel projects right now and they can't get a decent contractor at all.
 

Chuckinden

New member
Jun 12, 2006
18,974
1,752
0
Heading toward 60. I'd like to downsize to a house with 500 to 1000 sq feet. I'd prefer the 500 but wife wants at least the K.
I'd like something simple but with about 6" of insulation in the walls, 12" in ceiling, 3 pane windows. An alternate source of power to reduce utility costs. Thinking about a poured basement with the 500 sq ft house, but wife likes the two story idea better (don't see much of a difference).

What would it cost to build something like this? Any ideas on how to keep it toasty in the winter but have very low utility bills?

Any experience with the Amish builders in the central Ky area?
Are you poor or just thrifty?
 

rmattox

New member
Nov 26, 2014
6,786
886
0
So why not pour abase net and buy a double wide to sit on top of it? Out of pocket max on that would be about 70K.
K,
That has been a thought, but I'm stuck with that picture of a 60's mobile home; poorly constructed with cheap materials. Maybe we should reconsider.
 

rmattox

New member
Nov 26, 2014
6,786
886
0
Are you poor or just thrifty?
Retired/thrifty. I'd rather spend my money for vacations than on heating/cooling a huge house....Additionally, I hate the cold. I want to be able to lay on the couch in my underwear during the middle of winter and be toasty/warm....all without paying a high heat bill. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDHoss

rmattox

New member
Nov 26, 2014
6,786
886
0
6" of insulation can have different effectiveness depending on the type of insulation used. Become conversant in R-values of insulation types. Find out how much you would like to achieve and then calculate the necessary thickness to achieve your desired R-values (and overall U-values) and compare pros and cons of the different types, including cost.

You would have to check a lot of boxes before the payback on alternative source of power makes much sense for a 1,000sf house. If you are budget conscious at all, and have normal utility access you shouldn't waste your time with alternative energy considerations. I have a feeling that Tesla's home battery product (and the like) will make your 2016 solution feel like an 8-track-esque blip in technology in the coming years - especially if you plan on staying in this home until you die.

Your biggest asset in reducing energy costs will insulating and sealing the building envelope.

Secondarily, focus on orientation to the natural environment (specific site). The orientation to the sun (and any immovable shade creating objects) is the priority. Orientation to prevailing winds is the second major factor in this. The long axis of the building should run east-west to maximize the south facade and its windows.

You should aim for window surface area of roughly 5% of the total sf of the house. The vast majority of these will be on the South facade to allow low Winter sun to penetrate deep into the interior space. Extend roof overhangs to block the higher summer sun from entering the space and added unwanted additional heat.

Determine how late in the winter/spring you would want additional heat from the sun to heat your house. Then enter in you site location and the date on NOAA's sun tracking calculator to determine the altitude angle of the sun at 12 noon on that day. In a sectional drawing, use this angle to draw a line beginning at the lowest edge of your typical southern window extending up and away from your building to the sun. Then, extend the top face of your roof pitch line until it intersects your original "12 noon cut-off day sung angle line." This intersection will give you the optimal depth of your roof overhang to allow winter sun to enter your house until the day you want it to stop.

For an aging couple, you should build a one story house - no basement or second floor. The difference between a basement and second story is the fact you can get natural light, ventilation, and egress (in the event of fire/emergency) from windows on a second story. A basement is a dark deathtrap by comparison.

I would look into local historical home design of your geographic area from before the advent of central heating and air. Those structures were designed to passively take advantage of their climate as much as possible.

You should set off to design a house in this manner as if you were ignorant of modern technology for the most part (except for spatial/plan requirements). Then go back and augment it with modern technology (better insulation, etc.)

In the end, you should buy a trailer. It will lose just as much value as your Eco-tiny home (since there won't be a market when the fad passes), but you will have a lot less headaches in the process and get a home that was put together in a controlled factory environment rather than a one-off that was built in the elements.
Thanks! Another pro-trailer post. Interesting.
 

joeyrupption

New member
Jun 5, 2007
8,686
2,278
0
If you want to save money for a tiny house, harvesting your own energy with solar and/or wind is an absurd notion in a coal producing, low cost of living state like Kentucky.
 

tammefan

New member
Sep 27, 2008
37,707
2,728
0
I would go 800-900 sq ft with a two car garage and a small basement for storm shelter. Maybe just a 10x20 or 20x20 room. You could use a forced air outdoor wood furnace. I would budget $100,000.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joeyrupption

80 Proof

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2003
64,554
2,617
113
I am building some homes with recycled shipping containers that are super effecient. We have one in downtown Lexington that should be finished in March that will likely rate below 25 on the HERS scale (75% more effecient than a current house built to code, which would score 100). This on is 2 containers welded together for 640 Sq ft, it will have near zero air infiltration so we are installing an air exchange system to bring in fresh air. This house is being built for a non-profit and will go to a low income buyer. The retail price for this unit is approximately $75k.

The company is called ReContained, look up our Facebook page if you are interested in gathering more info.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBdK and Tinker Dan
Mar 23, 2012
23,493
1,384
0
Some of these tiny houses and similar ideas are pretty neat, and you can do a lot with them on the interior if you are efficient with space, but the costs are misleading because it isn't factoring in the cost of the land. When you're looking at houses on the market, the cost of land is already factored in.
 

krazykats

New member
Nov 6, 2006
23,768
2,330
0
I do not have any experience with container homes, but I can tell you if your worried about "cheap" materials you could have a double wide built effectively cheap to be honest.

Get with a double wide company and ask if you could have norandex(lifetime warranty on vinyl) as the vinyl product. Norandex should be on everyone's vendor list in that market. Other then that it 2x4, OSB sheathing, and 2x10 window/door headers.

Sit that on a basement by the lake where you can fish and grow a small garden and your essentially a two person show.
 

80 Proof

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2003
64,554
2,617
113
Doublewide's are notoriously inefficient. A lot of their building materials are chosen based on weight too which can have a negative effect on durability.

We can build a container home that is net-zero, durable enough to take on a tornado, and if you have a water supply we can make it completely off grid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tammefan

krazykats

New member
Nov 6, 2006
23,768
2,330
0
Wait, durable enough to handle a tornado? I'm interested in learning more.......Google shows some pretty pictures and **** but where can I find real information?
 

buckethead1978

New member
Oct 6, 2007
15,432
1,446
0
How is insurance on these container homes? No idea how the wood is applied but they would be interesting to deal with after a 2 hour pipe break.
 

rmattox

New member
Nov 26, 2014
6,786
886
0
Doublewide's are notoriously inefficient. A lot of their building materials are chosen based on weight too which can have a negative effect on durability.

We can build a container home that is net-zero, durable enough to take on a tornado, and if you have a water supply we can make it completely off grid.
Is there one in the Lex area that a guy could get a close look at?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tinker Dan

BBUK

New member
May 26, 2005
52,358
2,932
0
My wife watches the tiny house show faithfully. We nearly went with an 84 Lumber floor plan (Elkview model, 576 sq ft) for a second home in the Harrogate, TN area, which sits on the KY border, but decided to hold off until the Middlesboro KY house is sold.

Great thread. Keep the comments coming.

Heck, rent it out section 8. You could pull in a heck of a sum and never do anything but slap paint on once every few years with some new linoleum once every ten or so. Good dough in that. No worries getting your dough either but be sure to keep good insurance on it....jmuo
 
  • Like
Reactions: AustinTXCat

80 Proof

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2003
64,554
2,617
113
We will have a 20' container that has been turned into a luxury office on display at the HBAL New Home and Remodel Marketplace show outside Altech Arena February 24-26 for anyone interested. We will have lots of info regarding the options available.

Here is a link to a story the LHL did on the one we are building downtown.

Also, here is a link to our Facebook page
 
  • Like
Reactions: rmattox

Xception

New member
Apr 17, 2007
26,407
5,237
0
People sometimes neglect insulating the roof/attic properly , heat rises and in winter you're trying to trap it . If you don't do the attic right then the walls and windows effort is wasted .
 

Free_Salato_Blue

New member
Aug 31, 2014
4,475
922
0
I am building some homes with recycled shipping containers that are super effecient. We have one in downtown Lexington that should be finished in March that will likely rate below 25 on the HERS scale (75% more effecient than a current house built to code, which would score 100). This on is 2 containers welded together for 640 Sq ft, it will have near zero air infiltration so we are installing an air exchange system to bring in fresh air. This house is being built for a non-profit and will go to a low income buyer. The retail price for this unit is approximately $75k.

The company is called ReContained, look up our Facebook page if you are interested in gathering more info.

@ $75,000 that's $117/sqft. I'm not sure about that price point compared to a traditional construction.
 

VT/UK Rondo

New member
Aug 2, 2009
7,563
300
0

Ive always liked the cottages at Barren River lake resort as a small home design. Simple but with a huge open design. I would wrap the porch all the way around, maybe add a gas heater. The open area underneath would look good with river rock, laurel bushes and pompas grass. A metal roof would make for awesome sleeping too. Probably have a huge detached garage for storage and hobby stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rmattox

krazykats

New member
Nov 6, 2006
23,768
2,330
0
Ugh, 80 is killing me here! How do those things gurantee $25 a month in electric?

You can't do that? I mean that's sending someone back to depending on candle light and wood burning stoves!