We have very little quickness

[Mr Wickerpark]

Sorry but we have not much quickness on this team. Of our starting 5, neither turner, taylor, pardon, or kopp would be mistaken for being quick. And Law is athletic but he is not quick either when dribbling. I mean if we dont have any elite NBA prospects, then we have to make shots away from the basket and even bring back basic plays like pick and roll.

Without quickness on display, guys like Turner have to have more than 4 outside shots a game. Why does he not shoot the ball?

 

[lou v]

Sorry but we have not much quickness on this team. Of our starting 5, neither turner, taylor, pardon, or kopp would be mistaken for being quick. And Law is athletic but he is not quick either when dribbling. I mean if we dont have any elite NBA prospects, then we have to make shots away from the basket and even bring back basic plays like pick and roll.

Without quickness on display, guys like Turner have to have more than 4 outside shots a game. Why does he not shoot the ball?

I don't know where you're getting four shots per game. Turner took 12 shots last night and made four. He was 2-for-6 from beyond the arc. Turner, Taylor and Law, NU"s best shooters, went a combined 12-for-36 last night and 5-for-18 on 3-pointers. That's going to make it difficult for them to beat anyone.

I agree somewhat with your point about quickness. NU doesn't have many players who can create a shot off the dribble. If they can't get out in transition and have to play in the half-court, they get very stagnant. They also have a problem with shot selection. Down the stretch, especially, they took too many long 3s early in the shot clock. That really hurt them.

 

[Medill90]

I don't know where you're getting four shots per game. Turner took 12 shots last night and made four. He was 2-for-6 from beyond the arc. Turner, Taylor and Law, NU"s best shooters, went a combined 12-for-36 last night and 5-for-18 on 3-pointers. That's going to make it difficult for them to beat anyone.

I agree somewhat with your point about quickness. NU doesn't have many players who can create a shot off the dribble. If they can't get out in transition and have to play in the half-court, they get very stagnant. They also have a problem with shot selection. Down the stretch, especially, they took too many long 3s early in the shot clock. That really hurt them.

Relative to these comments....I think Taylor is a nice player but I don't know that his skill set is a good match with this offense. He can create and get his shot off, but I don't know that this offense puts him the best position to do that.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

The lack of having a power forward and big guys are really limiting the amount of shots per game. This team was pushing the ball upcourt earlier in the year, with success but was coming up empty in the tank at the end. Seems like collins is slowing things down and giving more minutes to nance and greer.

Looks like no option but to push the ball upcourt. Really really struggle with playing half court ball.

 

[lou v]

The lack of having a power forward and big guys are really limiting the amount of shots per game. This team was pushing the ball upcourt earlier in the year, with success but was coming up empty in the tank at the end. Seems like collins is slowing things down and giving more minutes to nance and greer.

Looks like no option but to push the ball upcourt. Really really struggle with playing half court ball.

I don’t think Collins is slowing things down. He would love to push the ball as much as possible. The other teams are slowing things down. Starting with Oklahoma, teams have been pressuring the ball more and extending their defense, out to half- or even three-quarters court. It’s taking NU longer to bring the ball up and get into their offense. This is where not having a true point guard really hurts them.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I don’t think Collins is slowing things down. He would love to push the ball as much as possible. The other teams are slowing things down. Starting with Oklahoma, teams have been pressuring the ball more and extending their defense, out to half- or even three-quarters court. It’s taking NU longer to bring the ball up and get into their offense. This is where not having a true point guard really hurts them.

The best way to combat this is to attack the basket right away after crossing mid court. We cross mid court and hold up two fingers while pounding the ball on the hardwood while guys circle the 3 point line for 15 seconds and we inevitably get off a contested shot. You have to make teams pay for a trap. We do the opposite, we let them ease back where they don’t have to exert much effort after the initial trap. I know easier said than done, but these players are capable of doing that.

 

[ricko6543211]

The best way to combat this is to attack the basket right away after crossing mid court. We cross mid court and hold up two fingers while pounding the ball on the hardwood while guys circle the 3 point line for 15 seconds and we inevitably get off a contested shot. You have to make teams pay for a trap. We do the opposite, we let them ease back where they don’t have to exert much effort after the initial trap. I know easier said than done, but these players are capable of doing that.

this, exactly... it was constantly the case under Carmody, and it's still the same today. unfortunately we don't make teams pay for pressing us, so there is 0 reason for them not to do it.

 

[Username Not Available]

It drove me crazy last night that Collins and crew didn't have punish them for running the trap - like they didn't have a scheme beyond breaking thru it. And there were opportunities.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

I don’t think Collins is slowing things down. He would love to push the ball as much as possible. The other teams are slowing things down. Starting with Oklahoma, teams have been pressuring the ball more and extending their defense, out to half- or even three-quarters court. It’s taking NU longer to bring the ball up and get into their offense. This is where not having a true point guard really hurts them.

Mike says this doesn’t happen. Iowa must be a pressing team because nobody is going to go out of their way to press this LG deficient team, right Mike?

 

[xxxbobxxx]

The best way to combat this is to attack the basket right away after crossing mid court. We cross mid court and hold up two fingers while pounding the ball on the hardwood while guys circle the 3 point line for 15 seconds and we inevitably get off a contested shot. You have to make teams pay for a trap. We do the opposite, we let them ease back where they don’t have to exert much effort after the initial trap. I know easier said than done, but these players are capable of doing that.

Often catching ones breath after getting through the maze in the back court.

 

[mikewebb68]

Mike says this doesn’t happen. Iowa must be a pressing team because nobody is going to go out of their way to press this LG deficient team, right Mike?

I know you're just trolling, but Iowa didn't full court press, they half court trapped, and I don't think that we had one turnover vereus it. The reason we lost the game is that we got into deep foul trouble due to poor officiating, ; we actually had 28 points in the paint (just 2 less than Iowa) so generating good looks on offense was not the problem; the refs losing it in the second half was the problem, taking it out on us when they didn't get their way when they wanted a spectator removed.

At sny rate what in the world did happen to all those teams who were going to full court press us, Xbob?

 

[ricko6543211]

I know you're just trolling, but Iowa didn't full court press, they half court trapped, and I don't think that we had one turnover vereus it. The reason we lost the game is that we got into deep foul trouble due to poor officiating, ; we actually had 28 points in the paint (just 2 less than Iowa) so generating good looks on offense was not the problem; the refs losing it in the second half was the problem, taking it out on us when they didn't get their way when they wanted a spectator removed.

At sny rate what in the world did happen to all those teams who were going to full court press us, Xbob?

I’m hesitant to respond and get in the middle of a likely pi**ing contest between the two of you but... I think I disagree.
1. They did a mixture of 3/4 court and 1/2 court pressing (not sure where that fits in your “debate”). They didn’t force many turnovers, but they certainly disrupted our offensive flow and delayed us getting into our sets.
2. I don’t think we got good looks for a majority of the game. There were relatively few open 3s that I saw. We did a decent job of having some guards penetrate and score / draw fouls, but it’s not like our offensive execution was creating easy shots. No that many open 3s, and very few successful post ups to Pardon or anyone else.

Agree the refs hurt us at the margin, particularly for that stretch in the early / middle 2nd half, but for most of the game they just ruined the rhythm for both teams. I think blaming that loss on the refs is an excuse rather than looking at the real culprit, which IMO is #1 our struggles to get good shots from our halfcourt offense (and #2 last night, our inability to maintain good defensive position with our feet and thus avoid needing to use our hands to defend and take fouls).

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Often catching ones breath after getting through the maze in the back court.

Exactly. We seemed to relax for 10 seconds after crossing mid court. I wasn’t at the game yesterday, but was screaming at my TV to get it low quickly because we had a 2 on 1 many many times that we just ignored.

 

[mikewebb68]

I’m hesitant to respond and get in the middle of a likely pi**ing contest between the two of you but... I think I disagree.
1. They did a mixture of 3/4 court and 1/2 court pressing (not sure where that fits in your “debate”). They didn’t force many turnovers, but they certainly disrupted our offensive flow and delayed us getting into our sets.
2. I don’t think we got good looks for a majority of the game. There were relatively few open 3s that I saw. We did a decent job of having some guards penetrate and score / draw fouls, but it’s not like our offensive execution was creating easy shots. No that many open 3s, and very few successful post ups to Pardon or anyone else.

Agree the refs hurt us at the margin, particularly for that stretch in the early / middle 2nd half, but for most of the game they just ruined the rhythm for both teams. I think blaming that loss on the refs is an excuse rather than looking at the real culprit, which IMO is #1 our struggles to get good shots from our halfcourt offense (and #2 last night, our inability to maintain good defensive position with our feet and thus avoid needing to use our hands to defend and take fouls).

No worries, there is no contest, I already own his screenname. We actually were fairly balanced between points in the paint and not; the big disparity with Iowa was with free throws (26-16, I believe, with most of that disparity in the second half, I believe), which is the primary reason we lost the game. We can disagree as to why there was a disparity; my argument is that the worst defensive team in the BIG didn't suddenly learn defense last night; they were assisted by the refs. But certainly, alternate theories, such as yours, are reasonable as well.

 

[NJCat]

but was screaming at my TV to get it low quickly because we had a 2 on 1 many many times that we just ignored.

Another Screamer......

 

[TheC]

I know you're just trolling, but Iowa didn't full court press, they half court trapped, and I don't think that we had one turnover vereus it. The reason we lost the game is that we got into deep foul trouble due to poor officiating, ; we actually had 28 points in the paint (just 2 less than Iowa) so generating good looks on offense was not the problem; the refs losing it in the second half was the problem, taking it out on us when they didn't get their way when they wanted a spectator removed.

At sny rate what in the world did happen to all those teams who were going to full court press us, Xbob?

We did have one turnover I remember and that was by Greer - the supposed point guard.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

I know you're just trolling, but Iowa didn't full court press, they half court trapped, and I don't think that we had one turnover vereus it. The reason we lost the game is that we got into deep foul trouble due to poor officiating, ; we actually had 28 points in the paint (just 2 less than Iowa) so generating good looks on offense was not the problem; the refs losing it in the second half was the problem, taking it out on us when they didn't get their way when they wanted a spectator removed.

At sny rate what in the world did happen to all those teams who were going to full court press us, Xbob?

I think if you go back and read my posts, I said teams would press us. Maybe we use different lingo, but last night was a press. It sapped energy and shot clock. It was disruptive and effective.

It is so old to blame the refs for every damn loss. We aren’t Cincy Bearcats, Oakland Raiders or any program to be disliked. Law has even stopped all the whining. Our coach is not a sideline prick.

We lose these games. What we are doing isn’t working. And the status quo expecting different results = insanity.

I suggested another wager. On my end, perhaps content control, forced peace, I would even stake my copyright and use of the PKK. Let’s wager on this b-ball season. It’s early but I have seen enough to go out on a limb. Put up or shut up?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I think if you go back and read my posts, I said teams would press us. Maybe we use different lingo, but last night was a press. It sapped energy and shot clock. It was disruptive and effective.

It is so old to blame the refs for every damn loss. We aren’t Cincy Bearcats, Oakland Raiders or any program to be disliked. Law has even stopped all the whining. Our coach is not a sideline prick.

We lose these games. What we are doing isn’t working. And the status quo expecting different results = insanity.

I suggested another wager. On my end, perhaps content control, forced peace, I would even stake my copyright and use of the PKK. Let’s wager on this b-ball season. It’s early but I have seen enough to go out on a limb. Put up or shut up?

I thought you trademarked PKK?

 

[xxxbobxxx]

I thought you trademarked PKK?

Pending

 

[ricko6543211]

I think if you go back and read my posts, I said teams would press us. Maybe we use different lingo, but last night was a press. It sapped energy and shot clock. It was disruptive and effective.

It is so old to blame the refs for every damn loss. We aren’t Cincy Bearcats, Oakland Raiders or any program to be disliked. Law has even stopped all the whining. Our coach is not a sideline prick.

We lose these games. What we are doing isn’t working. And the status quo expecting different results = insanity.

I suggested another wager. On my end, perhaps content control, forced peace, I would even stake my copyright and use of the PKK. Let’s wager on this b-ball season. It’s early but I have seen enough to go out on a limb. Put up or shut up?

this sort of reads like grasping at straws. content control, use of the PKK? what does that even mean??

I had been at 8-12 for reasonable expectation for conference record. I'm hovering in the ~7.5 win area now. The Iowa game was a tough one. Based on past experience with CC though, I do sort of expect him to pivot and find our "identity" to some extent in the back half of conference season. This may end up being as a matchup zone team this year (though still haven't seen anything like an offensive identity unfortunately). But I think that positive momentum will come too late, and the conference looks like it's too deep for us to dig out of this hole (potentially 1-5 if we don't beat Mich) unless something transformational happens, which I don't see unfortunately.

Vegas would prob set the over under for conference wins at about 7 flat (does anyone know how to find KenPom win projections / pay for access?), so if so I suppose I'm slightly optimistic in comparison to that.

 

[NJCat]

Vegas would prob set the over under for conference wins at about 7 flat (does anyone know how to find KenPom win projections / pay for access?), so if so I suppose I'm slightly optimistic in comparison to that.

Bart Torvik runs a site similar to Ken Pom, and access is free. His site currently has NU going 16-15, beating Indiana, PSU, Rutgers, and Minny, plus a couple of 50-50 upsets.

I'd take the under on that prediction.

http://barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Northwestern

 

[ricko6543211]

Bart Torvik runs a site similar to Ken Pom, and access is free. His site currently has NU going 16-15, beating Indiana, PSU, Rutgers, and Minny, plus a couple of 50-50 upsets.

I'd take the under on that prediction.

http://barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Northwestern

thanks... by my count 16-15 translates to 7-13 in conference, so I guess we are in agreement as to what "fair value" would be in the market.

i'd take the over on 7, but narrowly.

 

[mikewebb68]

I think if you go back and read my posts, I said teams would press us. Maybe we use different lingo, but last night was a press. It sapped energy and shot clock. It was disruptive and effective.

It is so old to blame the refs for every damn loss. We aren’t Cincy Bearcats, Oakland Raiders or any program to be disliked. Law has even stopped all the whining. Our coach is not a sideline prick.

We lose these games. What we are doing isn’t working. And the status quo expecting different results = insanity.

I suggested another wager. On my end, perhaps content control, forced peace, I would even stake my copyright and use of the PKK. Let’s wager on this b-ball season. It’s early but I have seen enough to go out on a limb. Put up or shut up?

Come up with something concrete and I will consdier it as always!

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

this sort of reads like grasping at straws. content control, use of the PKK? what does that even mean??

I had been at 8-12 for reasonable expectation for conference record. I'm hovering in the ~7.5 win area now. The Iowa game was a tough one. Based on past experience with CC though, I do sort of expect him to pivot and find our "identity" to some extent in the back half of conference season. This may end up being as a matchup zone team this year (though still haven't seen anything like an offensive identity unfortunately). But I think that positive momentum will come too late, and the conference looks like it's too deep for us to dig out of this hole (potentially 1-5 if we don't beat Mich) unless something transformational happens, which I don't see unfortunately.

Vegas would prob set the over under for conference wins at about 7 flat (does anyone know how to find KenPom win projections / pay for access?), so if so I suppose I'm slightly optimistic in comparison to that.

admittedly, our schedule has been brutal but its still tough to count a win against rutgers. After teams figured us out, its been tough.
Like a game of chess, its our move. It better be good. If we can adjust then maybe 6 or 7 wins. Otherwise 3 or 4.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Come up with something concrete and I will consdier it as always!

Pick an over under on wins. I named a few potential offerings on my side, you are welcome to make suggestions.

 

[mikewebb68]

Pick an over under on wins. I named a few potential offerings on my side, you are welcome to make suggestions.

16.5 (I would win if 17 and up)? Still unclear on what you have concrete to offer me, though.

 

[mikewebb68]

admittedly, our schedule has been brutal but its still tough to count a win against rutgers. After teams figured us out, its been tough.
Like a game of chess, its our move. It better be good. If we can adjust then maybe 6 or 7 wins. Otherwise 3 or 4.

Would absolutely book a board ban wager with you on over 4 wins the rest of the way. QTC.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

16.5 (I would win if 17 and up)? Still unclear on what you have concrete to offer me, though.

Well, before we continue, as I think we aren’t far apart, do you think 16 wins equals NCAA tourney? NIT berth? Any post season?

 

[NJCat]

Well, before we continue, as I think we aren’t far apart, do you think 16 wins equals NCAA tourney? NIT berth? Any post season?

No.
No.
and No.

 

[DaCat]

Another Screamer......

Take away his TV!!

 

[mikewebb68]

Well, before we continue, as I think we aren’t far apart, do you think 16 wins equals NCAA tourney? NIT berth? Any post season?

If we had 16 wins, we would finish 16-16, so no.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

If we had 16 wins, we would finish 16-16, so no.

Ok, would you agree that any season without post season options is a failure?

 

[hoosboot]

Exactly. We seemed to relax for 10 seconds after crossing mid court. I wasn’t at the game yesterday, but was screaming at my TV to get it low quickly because we had a 2 on 1 many many times that we just ignored.

I was really frustrated by our shot selection in the 2nd half. We ran a lot of high pick and roll with Benson early in the shot clock, but we gave the ball to Benson (and he was open on several consecutive possessions.) We don't share the ball with a purpose and we don't have a lot of guys who can create good looks for themselves, so our offense really stagnates when we aren't in transition. Part of that seems like we see screens as ways to get the person with the ball an open look rather than as part of an offense that gives everybody open looks. That open look might come two or three passes after the screen (and we don't seem like we screen off the ball all that much.)

 

[mikewebb68]

Ok, would you agree that any season without post season options is a failure?

No.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

No.

Then I guess we simply disagree. Not that we will succeed every season, but the goal of the game is to win. And to play into the port season. And teams do it annually, so it can be done.

In my book, no post season is a failed season. I don’t see the post season absent a crazy turn. And as such, a failure.

But for me, one way to get some value from this failed season would be to prepare now for next season. And who knows, may be lightening in a bottle.

But keep running this crap out and get those other 6 wins, well that’s a failure and a waste.