Our defense was just fine ( and FAR from passive) until the last 8 minutes, where repeated offensive breakdowns finally took their toll on our defensive play. Our problem last night is that we shot 29 percent, pure and simple. Not going to win a lot of games where you shoot that poorly. We missed a ton of easy, open shots.
What a terrible game
- Thread starter mikewebb68
- Start date
Our defense was just fine ( and FAR from passive) until the last 8 minutes, where repeated offensive breakdowns finally took their toll on our defensive play. Our problem last night is that we shot 29 percent, pure and simple. Not going to win a lot of games where you shoot that poorly. We missed a ton of easy, open shots.
I think this season shows how much intensity and toughness matter in college basketball. We are not a very talented team, but then I don't think we were all that talented last year. We just played with an attitude last year that allowed the Cats to will their way to victory. That desire is just absent this year and so the lesser talented team (i.e., us) is getting beat and sometimes badly.
+1
OK, I'll put this out there. As ugly as this game was, and my eyeballs were bleeding, it's never as bad as we make it out to be.
We really need to fix one thing: our shooting. It's really that simple (though I never said easy). Just make the damn shots. We were getting open looks, from 3-pointers to mid-range jumpers, and were missing them... CLANG! We had a chance to take control of the game early on, and missing all those open looks let Neb stay in the game and eventually take over in the second half.
We were dominating the boards, especially the offensive rebounds, in the first half. Our defense was tough. We just let them hang around too long when we had a chance to break them. I don't have the answer to our poor shooting, maybe we just aren't good shooters.
The connected nature of last year's team isn't present consistently, and that's not about talent and development. It's about coaching and attitude.
But it would be good to have a discussion about development. I think in some cases the ceiling wasn't as high as a lot of us thought. In some, players don't seem to be improving what they can contribute in games year over year. And so there's a plateau in contribution and regression in areas, perhaps triggered by the lack of connectedness.
You can call me naive, of little bball knowledge, whatever, but I think the coaching set this up. Just not in the way you infer may be possible. Last year's team over-performed it's ability in a down Big Ten, had no really bad losses and made the tournament solidly. A great coaching job heightened expectations.
Sanjay was a loss.
This year's team is playing at times consistent with their ability, and at times half a notch below. They are not outperforming anywhere which puts them in the middle of the Big Ten -- 7th or 8th -- in a year only five or six teams go to the tournament.
With the opportunities to fix this are rapidly evaporating. It's going to come down to making a run in a conference with talent just as good or better, against good coaches and teams that have now gelled. It's hard to put money on NU.
Never the less, this team did what it was supposed to do. Last year. That's not a lot of fun right now, but they were never going to do much more than make the tournament.
The incoming class is stellar (all incoming classes are for fans, but the scouts' enthusiasm may be unprecedented).
NU will get better.
I think Ash has improved on offense, at first he was afraid to dribble the ball, now he can at least get it up the court and start the offense most of the time. And he is willing to shoot now, though unfortunately not very well. I do agree with the poster who said that his defense is overrated - he had a couple nice swipes today but he just isn't that great at staying in front of his man on quick guards (Law is much better). Unfortunately, modest improvement from a very low baseline isn't sufficient really.
Last edited:
You heard "CLANG!", I heard Allstate!
They are unfriendly rims.
It's a **** arena.
NU has no home games this year.
The coach and the team aren't pulling it out as an excuse so let's give them credit for that.
Yeah I agree on parts of this. I think our defense in the final minutes just got exhausted and gave up. For most of the game it was pretty strong.
I wanted to grab onto your last point - the desire (or in my view, energy). It just wasn't there. Pardon tried to stir people up a couple times in the first half, and I thought we had a chance to get some energy after Scottie finally hit that pull-up 3 in the second half, but then we completely blew our next possession after getting a stop. There was no offensive energy all game. The venue at Allstate likely contributes to this some. But e.g. Vic seemed to be using all his available energy on D (maybe he's sick?) - multiple times I saw him standing off to the side or in the corner, and his cuts seemed a step slow or disinterested or something - when BMac is out, it's on you to initiate and create offense and he didn't seem to want to do it. I don't want to put it all on him, cause yet again he (and Pardon) were clearly our best defensive players. But he did not bring it on the offensive side today, and when he did try to score he seemed a step slow so had to force things. Same thing with Lindsey - inconsistent energy and effort, thought that's been more of a chronic problem over the years with him so less surprised. Just thought that he might want to step up and take more leadership with his backcourt mate out today.
There was no flow to our offense at all today, which isn't exactly shocking given BMac out, but it is disappointing it was this bad. Obviously all the missed shots hurt matters quite a bit too, we blew plenty of decent looks. Falzon Skelly Pardon played with some energy on O, but none of our guards did.
One other quick tangential comment - does anyone else think that our bigs aren't very good at setting screens? They seem to set up too early and give too much space, and then still try to move late too often and get called for fouls sometimes. When you have a crafty dribbler and passer like BMac he can still put some pressure on the defense (especially with Pardon rolling to the hoop), but with our current G personnel the pick and roll was basically a useless play last night.
It's too easy to say, "It just wasn't our night. Shots weren't falling." When good teams aren't making shots, they get to the line for some easy points, they pick the intensity on defense, they get into passing lanes and create fast break opportunities, they drive the basket, they run some offense to create easy backdoor looks, they create their own momentum.
After our losses, I keep seeing message board comments along the lines of:
* We just weren't making shots. Too bad. That'll happen sometimes. Game Over. It was probably just an exception.
* The other team was super hot shooting. Too bad. That'll happen sometimes. Game Over. It was probably just an exception.
* BMac/Lindsey just had an off-night. Too bad. That'll happen sometimes. Game Over. It was probably just an exception.
Good teams find a way to win despite Plan A/B/C not working. This season, our 'Cats fold when things aren't going their way.
I don't really know how to explain the regression on this team. I find it beyond the realm of possibility that the loss of Lumpkin and Taphorn had this much of an impact on a team returning this much experience. Perhaps Baldwin did a lot more than we knew and Donlon hasn't replaced that yet.
As for last night, the guys had plenty of good open looks, they just missed, and missed repeatedly. There was actually a decent crowd on hand, but there was no opportunity to ever generate any excitement, and the default state of Allstate is the ambiance of a morgue.
In the entire second half last night, out of 30 possessions, there were only two times where we strung back-to-back scoring possessions together without them scoring in between. The first doesn't even really count, as we scored the last points of the 1st half and first points of the 2nd, and the other time was when we cut it from 41-36 to 41-40. That stretch at 41-36 started a run of us scoring on 7 out of 8 possessions...and the deficit increased by 2!
To my untrained eyes, there seemed to be a serious lack of fire and leadership on the court, and it just looked like they were playing completely uninspired ball. Pardon had a quote in the postgame presser saying that "some of us just weren't locked in mentally" over the last 8 minutes, which is completely inexcusable on a team with this many upperclassmen.
As for last night, the guys had plenty of good open looks, they just missed, and missed repeatedly. There was actually a decent crowd on hand, but there was no opportunity to ever generate any excitement, and the default state of Allstate is the ambiance of a morgue.
In the entire second half last night, out of 30 possessions, there were only two times where we strung back-to-back scoring possessions together without them scoring in between. The first doesn't even really count, as we scored the last points of the 1st half and first points of the 2nd, and the other time was when we cut it from 41-36 to 41-40. That stretch at 41-36 started a run of us scoring on 7 out of 8 possessions...and the deficit increased by 2!
To my untrained eyes, there seemed to be a serious lack of fire and leadership on the court, and it just looked like they were playing completely uninspired ball. Pardon had a quote in the postgame presser saying that "some of us just weren't locked in mentally" over the last 8 minutes, which is completely inexcusable on a team with this many upperclassmen.
1. The pieces we are missing this year, although they did not seem big,,,were important. They were specialists....Sanjay was kind of the glue that held it all together, not just junk points but solid defense and screens and ball movement on offense and Taphorn was a fairly consistent as a 3 pt specialist We seem to lack any consistency this year. Plus Sanjay could take the other teams #1 guy most times and with Law that let you other defensive liabilities get by. Bottom line were with Sanjay everyone's strengths were on display ,,without him their weaknesses are on display. Falzone and Lindsey can not defend someone who puts the ball on the floor,,nor Brown for that matter..
2. Remember we barely made it to the Dance last year.....So maybe last year was ahead of schedule and the talent we have.
3. Does not seem like team improved from last year. To me Pardon has played better most days and Ash has improved but still has a long way to go.....everyone else seems to have digressed
4.I do not think we adapted well to the type of team we have this year. Lumpkin let us play adequate man to man . This just looks like a zone team to me....Hard to anticipate that one player could make a difference but.....
5. Still think the loss of Coach Baldwin has had an effect
6. Bottom line.....most of our players can be defended and most of our players cannot defend......so takes a real solid effort of Team Offense and Team Defense to win and we are not getting it. Some nights there appears to be a lot of head hanging. Hope we turn it around.
2. Remember we barely made it to the Dance last year.....So maybe last year was ahead of schedule and the talent we have.
3. Does not seem like team improved from last year. To me Pardon has played better most days and Ash has improved but still has a long way to go.....everyone else seems to have digressed
4.I do not think we adapted well to the type of team we have this year. Lumpkin let us play adequate man to man . This just looks like a zone team to me....Hard to anticipate that one player could make a difference but.....
5. Still think the loss of Coach Baldwin has had an effect
6. Bottom line.....most of our players can be defended and most of our players cannot defend......so takes a real solid effort of Team Offense and Team Defense to win and we are not getting it. Some nights there appears to be a lot of head hanging. Hope we turn it around.
It seems to me that shooting is about confidence, assuming you have the technical skill, and the team this year just doesn't have it. It is hard for me to understand why after all they accomplished last year. I expected a very confident team that almost took down the tourney runner-up. But you can see it in their eyes... they don't believe right now, and it seems like the beatings they've taken this season have only reinforced that lack of belief.
More than anything, it is just a sad story. This group, which took us all to such highs last season, is likely to finish the season in a pretty low place. I believe they're better than what they've shown this year, but if they don't believe it and don't want it, it doesn't matter. I want so much more for them because they deserve it after all they've done for the school and the program.
More than anything, it is just a sad story. This group, which took us all to such highs last season, is likely to finish the season in a pretty low place. I believe they're better than what they've shown this year, but if they don't believe it and don't want it, it doesn't matter. I want so much more for them because they deserve it after all they've done for the school and the program.
With Sanjay, overall they were always in position defensively and this year we have had a tendency to be slightly out. The result,a lack of cohesiveness and we tend to commit more fouls constantly having one or more players in foul trouble and weakening out D. Having to have players like Lindsey, Skelly or Law sit disrupts the O flow as well.
Absolutely the loss of Baldwin has had an affect
Anyone that expected a stellar offensive performance the first time without BMac was dreaming. The offense was also not helped by all the early open shots that were missed. Hit even a couple of those and every thing gets easier. I don't think at any point in the game (other than after Law's first shot) did it seem we were above 30% shooting. Honestly, just seemed like they did not have their legs. Just cannot win that way. I expect the O to be better
On the plus side, there was a reason that NEB was playing terribly. For the first 30 minutes or so, our D was outstanding. But in the last 8 minutes, it broke down because they had just been on the floor too long. Law 37 minutes, Pardon 36, Lindsey 35 and even Ash was on for 28 minutes (which is far beyond normal) and having to replace about 35 BMac minutes. And this was after playing a tougher than expected game on Sat.
1. When you lose your leader, you will struggle. McIntosh did not suit up and the offense was 25% off at the least. NU has two guards who filled in - Ash and Brown. Ash is not a point guard and the offense grinds to a halt when he is in. He is a combo guard and never been a true PG. The PG on his high school championship squad was UNL's Glynn Watson. He was abused on defense last night particularly in the last few minutes as Palmer blew by him on two occasions for dunks. He does not move his feet well and did not keep his body in front of the offensive player. He is a risk taker and reaches for the steal too much instead of moving his feet and keeping his body in front of his opponent. Brown needs to play more because we need his offense and he should be more of a contributor than Ash who stagnates the offense which reverts to only a 50-60 ppg team when Ash play 20 minutes a game. PGs have been reluctant to sign with the 'cats (e.g. Xavier Simpson of UM) because McIntosh is playing 32-35 mpg. So we do not have a true or pure backup PG;
2. We are not getting enough from the 4. Meaning Skelly is a role player off the bench and should not be getting starter minutes. He is a foul machine. Falzon is still regaining his confidence on offense and is also a foul machine. I am not sure why Pardon is not getting some minutes at the 4 and that would allow Benson to get some minutes at the 5 whose game appears to have developed. Benson could either sets pick at the free throw lane and Pardon could post or vice versa;
3. Gaines needs more minutes at the backup SG, but needs to work on his jump shot. Plays great defense and can create turnovers;
4. Law's offensive game will flourish next season as we will have guards like Lathon who will be able to guard opposing PGs as opposed to Law chasing guys through multiple screens who are 6 inches smaller than him which tires him out on the offensive side; and
5. Lindsey's game is maddening in that it is still inconsistent, but shows flashes of greatness and then periods of non-activity. Koop is a shooter which will help and next season, hopefully, Gaines' shot improves and he becomes a consistent contributor.
Bottom line from last night is that Lindsey and Law needed to score 30 plus points between the two of them with McIntosh out and UNL was well-prepared and they did not reach that level. When McIntosh gets back into the lineup, we need consistent performances from NU's three stars - Law, Lindsey and McIntosh and that has not happened. Pardon's game is getting better and better and seems to be their most consistent starter.
2. We are not getting enough from the 4. Meaning Skelly is a role player off the bench and should not be getting starter minutes. He is a foul machine. Falzon is still regaining his confidence on offense and is also a foul machine. I am not sure why Pardon is not getting some minutes at the 4 and that would allow Benson to get some minutes at the 5 whose game appears to have developed. Benson could either sets pick at the free throw lane and Pardon could post or vice versa;
3. Gaines needs more minutes at the backup SG, but needs to work on his jump shot. Plays great defense and can create turnovers;
4. Law's offensive game will flourish next season as we will have guards like Lathon who will be able to guard opposing PGs as opposed to Law chasing guys through multiple screens who are 6 inches smaller than him which tires him out on the offensive side; and
5. Lindsey's game is maddening in that it is still inconsistent, but shows flashes of greatness and then periods of non-activity. Koop is a shooter which will help and next season, hopefully, Gaines' shot improves and he becomes a consistent contributor.
Bottom line from last night is that Lindsey and Law needed to score 30 plus points between the two of them with McIntosh out and UNL was well-prepared and they did not reach that level. When McIntosh gets back into the lineup, we need consistent performances from NU's three stars - Law, Lindsey and McIntosh and that has not happened. Pardon's game is getting better and better and seems to be their most consistent starter.
Lots of good stuff today. Thanks for making a bad loss better and entertaining me on a sick day.
This is the one I've wanted to scream for a while, ESPECIALLY regarding Lindsey. It was better written by BDP.
Waaaaaaaaay too often, the Cats and especially Lindsey put faith in their second-division 3-pt shot. The lower third of the conference in 3-pt percentage and FT attempts is not a good recipe for winning and a competitive offense.
Maybe this is part of the issue. I agree too often the bigs set up too early. OTOH, it's pretty obvious timing of the screens is not a high priority.
But more wing players just don't use them at all to drive to the basket.
I don't think I had a ceiling nearly as high as some people out here, and player after player is not even reaching my relatively low bar.
Forget the ceiling, think about the performance of some of these guys last year. Is BMac where he was? His shooting? Lindsey is a mystery from half to half. I really like what Pardon has done, but he, Law and Skelly have spent too much of this year in foul trouble.
a) I don't disagree with you about Skelly, but I think I've said my peace about the alternative to Skelly. That's why Skelly gets those minutes. You at least get a little something from Skelly on both sides of the ball. With Falzon, 16 games of waiting for one side of the ball is a lot.
b) I'm not in love with Benson, but he's shown a little something this year. I also don't get why his minutes are severely limited.
This is the one I've wanted to scream for a while, ESPECIALLY regarding Lindsey. It was better written by BDP.
Waaaaaaaaay too often, the Cats and especially Lindsey put faith in their second-division 3-pt shot. The lower third of the conference in 3-pt percentage and FT attempts is not a good recipe for winning and a competitive offense.
Maybe this is part of the issue. I agree too often the bigs set up too early. OTOH, it's pretty obvious timing of the screens is not a high priority.
But more wing players just don't use them at all to drive to the basket.
I don't think I had a ceiling nearly as high as some people out here, and player after player is not even reaching my relatively low bar.
Forget the ceiling, think about the performance of some of these guys last year. Is BMac where he was? His shooting? Lindsey is a mystery from half to half. I really like what Pardon has done, but he, Law and Skelly have spent too much of this year in foul trouble.
a) I don't disagree with you about Skelly, but I think I've said my peace about the alternative to Skelly. That's why Skelly gets those minutes. You at least get a little something from Skelly on both sides of the ball. With Falzon, 16 games of waiting for one side of the ball is a lot.
b) I'm not in love with Benson, but he's shown a little something this year. I also don't get why his minutes are severely limited.
Don't forget Lindsey and his foul trouble. I think Falzon has not fully recovered from the surgery and I think it affects his D. And that weak D is something that limits his minutes
Agree with most all of that. Maybe I had lower expectations on the 4 position than others (Falzon especially), but that's probably the one I'm least disappointed in. Never pictured Falzon as a 2-way player (at least not coming right off the injury), and while his defense & rebounding (that specifically is a big liability vs Skelly) has been worse than I expected, I've been pleasantly surprised with how quickly he found his shot back. Hoping as his mobility returns he can improve later this year. And Skelly is not perfect, he still plays too undisciplined, but I like that he is one of the few on this team that consistently give energy night in / night out on both sides of the ball. Vic and Dererk are the only others, though even Vic seems worn down right now to my eyes (largely due to minutes and high defensive usage I'm sure).
On Benson- he does look decent, but Pardon just looks better I think. A shame that we didn't have one of the backup guards make the same progress that Benson has because there are sure a lot of minutes to be filled in there right now.
Glad you agreed with my point on the screens. Feel like this is something you could make a coaching focus for a portion of a practice and drive into the bigs to see some improvement but who knows.
Not too many teams, even good ones, do well when plan A, B and C fail. I was impressed with the D in the first 30 minutes. It kept us in despite all the other failings but they just got tired and could not keep it up with no help from our O
I was at the game and it was definitely painful. 1st half our D was outstanding and our O was infuriating. I don't have the stats by half in front of me, but I'm pretty sure we had at least a handful of possessions with three shots on the basket (two offensive rebounds) and zero points to show for it. And yet we went into halftime with a five point lead. That was almost all defense on our part, and while they contested many of our shots, we just flat out missed just so so many open shots.
Our shooting did not improve in the second half, and our starters got tired. I could really see it by the ten minute mark, and they basically gave up just past the two minute mark. That flurry of Nebraska scores in the last minute was mostly uncontested by our team and I'm sure CCC had a lot to say to them about that.
Unlike many posters itt, I was actually surprised that Ash/Brown and Law did a decent job of getting the ball and the offense moving without BMac. there was definitely a lot more standing around trying to start something, but they only hand a handful of turnovers and once the motion started, the offense mostly worked. The team just missed the baskets. And again, late in the second half the offense ground to an even greater halt as they wore out.
And it just killed me watching Ash drive around the three point line and pass when he had a clear lane to the basket - at least three opportunities because his man wasn't worried that he might try something so audacious.
And they definitely didn't have to worry about our outside shooters, so collapsing on Pardon was easy D for them.
It's just hard to win when our two best scorers go 6 for 25 and no one else except Pardon wants to take a shot. This is going to be a long season if we can't score with any consistency.
Our shooting did not improve in the second half, and our starters got tired. I could really see it by the ten minute mark, and they basically gave up just past the two minute mark. That flurry of Nebraska scores in the last minute was mostly uncontested by our team and I'm sure CCC had a lot to say to them about that.
Unlike many posters itt, I was actually surprised that Ash/Brown and Law did a decent job of getting the ball and the offense moving without BMac. there was definitely a lot more standing around trying to start something, but they only hand a handful of turnovers and once the motion started, the offense mostly worked. The team just missed the baskets. And again, late in the second half the offense ground to an even greater halt as they wore out.
And it just killed me watching Ash drive around the three point line and pass when he had a clear lane to the basket - at least three opportunities because his man wasn't worried that he might try something so audacious.
And they definitely didn't have to worry about our outside shooters, so collapsing on Pardon was easy D for them.
It's just hard to win when our two best scorers go 6 for 25 and no one else except Pardon wants to take a shot. This is going to be a long season if we can't score with any consistency.
I just wish CC did not feel he has to stand and call every offensive play. The players spend too much time looking at him instead of creating the offense they see. There are situations where his input is necessary, but every possession stifles the offense.
So far this year, NU's national ranks:
FG%: 199
3pt%: 139
eFG%: 174
Last year:
FG%: 204
3pt%: 200
eFG%: 208
We're actually shooting better this year than last year.
Interesting... though I might expect those numbers to fall as the season progresses against B1G competition. I would guess our shooting %s go down.
That said, last year we finished #59 in AdjO on KenPom and #32 in AdjD on KenPom. This year we are #58 in AdjO and #93 in AdjD. Those numbers are designed to be SOS adjusted.
Defense is clearly the primary falloff from last year.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. We're noticeably better from beyond the arc, though - Skelly finding a reliable 3 point shot has been huge, for example.
Agreed. We weren't winning games with our offense last year, for the most part, so the troubling defensive lapses have significantly weakened the team.
Thing is - both teams have to shoot into them. Further, our team gets much more practice at doing so. One would think that they would have better shot percentage than opponents unless the shooters are the problem.
Great stats and not at all what I would have expected. Guess this is just not a good shooting team. That's not likely to change. Gotta focus on D then.
The disappointing thing, I think, is that we all expected a defensive dropoff with Lumpkin graduating, but the hope was that the offense would improve enough to offset the corresponding drop. I agree the defense has definitely been more than a modest drop, but the lack of improved offense is the bigger concern in my mind.
We've played 8 games against power conference teams. Of those 8, in only 3 of them (Creighton, Purdue, Oklahoma) has our offense been in the top 5 performances against the other team (i.e. we had the 3rd best output offensively of any team against Purdue this year), and we lost all 3 of those games. In the 5 others (Texas Tech, GT, Illinois, DePaul, Nebraska), we turned in performances that will likely be the worst or second-worst by a major conference team.
Defensively, we had 3 games (GT, Illinois, DePaul) in the top 5, going 2-1, and 3 games that are likely to be the worst defensive performance by a major-conference team (Creighton, Texas Tech and Nebraska), going 0-3.
End result of playing like this is you get some close wins/close losses and blowout losses, and neither bodes well for the remainder of the B1G season right now.
We've played 8 games against power conference teams. Of those 8, in only 3 of them (Creighton, Purdue, Oklahoma) has our offense been in the top 5 performances against the other team (i.e. we had the 3rd best output offensively of any team against Purdue this year), and we lost all 3 of those games. In the 5 others (Texas Tech, GT, Illinois, DePaul, Nebraska), we turned in performances that will likely be the worst or second-worst by a major conference team.
Defensively, we had 3 games (GT, Illinois, DePaul) in the top 5, going 2-1, and 3 games that are likely to be the worst defensive performance by a major-conference team (Creighton, Texas Tech and Nebraska), going 0-3.
End result of playing like this is you get some close wins/close losses and blowout losses, and neither bodes well for the remainder of the B1G season right now.
You're absolutely right.
However, I've never seen an NU team shoot at home as poorly as this team did in the first ten minutes against Nebby.
It's probably impractical for NU to hold all of it's practices at Rosemont, but that could help. The home team is supposed to have a slight advantage and there appears to be none.
Are your last year's numbers overall or last year up to this same point in the season?
You may not have seen it, but the debacle in CCC's first Big 10 home game against Wisconsin was worse: NU shot 5 of 22 en route to a 40-14 halftime deficit.....
Overall. Hmm, you have a point here. Last year through 3 Big Ten games:
FG%: 172
3pt%: 109
eFG%: 149
So right now we're shooting better than we did all of last year, but not as well as we were at this point last year. We'll see how Big Ten play impacts shooting going forward; if the Nebraska game is any indication, the answer may be "not well."
I must say, you've been on quite a roll of good posts lately. Glad I took you off ignore!
Illinois was a dreadful 1 of its first 19 last night (5.8%!) against Minny last night so maybe it is just this playing during Holiday break stuff that affects teams shooting. Haven't watched tonight's games. but from what I have seen so far this week, no one has been shooting lights out -outside of Purdue, who basically had a scrimmage vs, "don't sleep on" Rutgers...
