What is our actual recruiting pool

[torque-cat]

I've heard a couple posters lament unfilled schollies and such.

We are generally recruiting among the top 150 recruits--+/- under the radar guys like Greer. Obviously our preference is to land top 100 guys consistently and move into the top 50, which most big ten teams have on their roster.

So for argument's sake let's say 150 recruits with big ten competitive talent in our pool. Then let's say the staff actually like about 100 from a talent/skill perspective and about 30 are good academic and personality fits. If 5 of those guys are one and done super recruits who are still a major reach (ie Zion/Barret), we're looking at 25 realistic targets. Some of those 25 recruiting pool may not be positions of need etc... Landing 3-4 guys each year who fit all of those criteria, meet our positional needs and then cope with injuries (Falzon, Rap) is an incredibly tight rope to walk. That might be why a team like Stanford that has all of the advantages (prestige, money, history, athletic success, location/weather, famous athlete alumni network) has only been to the tourney once in the past 10 years.

 

[Sec_112]

On his way out, Kevin O'Neill said only 10% of the top 100 are eligible for NU admissions. So let's be generous and call it 20%.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

On his way out, Kevin O'Neill said only 10% of the top 100 are eligible for NU admissions. So let's be generous and call it 20%.

its certainly not an easy road

 

[Chuckster1973]

Current rivals top 150 only Beran in this class at #100

 

[hdhntr1]

On his way out, Kevin O'Neill said only 10% of the top 100 are eligible for NU admissions. So let's be generous and call it 20%.

Because we have loosened up our admission standards?

 

[torque-cat]

Because we have loosened up our admission standards?

Because this was an off the cuff comment by KON and not some peer-reviewed publication with data. I think it's reasonable to expect that KON, who is a used-car salesman of sorts, may have been exaggerating a bit to make his point. But if it really is 10% and there are only ~150-200 players in the country who could help us win in the big ten, then our recruiting pool is tiny and basically precludes being competitive in the BT. We have no knowledge of the actual numbers but the point of this thread is that the recruiting pool for solid big ten talent, that meets our academic standards, cultural/personality fit, position needs in a given year is small and leaves almost no margin for error.

 

[Sec_112]

Because we have loosened up our admission standards?

No. Just for the purposes of expanding the possibilities and having a little wiggle room in the estimate.

 

[willycat]

Because this was an off the cuff comment by KON and not some peer-reviewed publication with data. I think it's reasonable to expect that KON, who is a used-car salesman of sorts, may have been exaggerating a bit to make his point. But if it really is 10% and there are only ~150-200 players in the country who could help us win in the big ten, then our recruiting pool is tiny and basically precludes being competitive in the BT. We have no knowledge of the actual numbers but the point of this thread is that the recruiting pool for solid big ten talent, that meets our academic standards, cultural/personality fit, position needs in a given year is small and leaves almost no margin for error.

Guess it's time to leave the Big Ten, huh?

 

[hdhntr1]

No. Just for the purposes of expanding the possibilities and having a little wiggle room in the estimate.

I was joking. Our pool is small and likely not more than 20-25 % of the top players. Likely worse for BB than FB. That is why it is remarkable what CCC has been able to bring in. But isn't just bringing in a guy or so. It is also about being able to put together that more complete team. As an example, this year we have many of the pieces but alas no PG... Result, incomplete team.

Also while all teams tend to have injuries, it is likely they hit us harder without the depth.

 

[IdahoAlum]

It is interesting to observe how the narrative has come around 360 degrees during this, the sixth year of the Chris Collins era. When the former coach was dismissed and sent on his way, the narrative was he had plenty of time to get it done and failed. That having a small recruiting pool was no longer an acceptable excuse. That not having enough depth to overcome the "curse of NU" and the ongoing injury and transfer problems was on the coaching staff. Now on the brink of the fifth season in six without a post-season, and no relief in sight for next year, we are back to the narrative we all used before we got tired of Carmody -- very difficult to recruit here, small pool of qualified talent, can't recruit behind four-year starters, impossible to build depth here, etc. So are we saying that NU really CAN'T be a consistent post-season contender afterall?

 

[haywood jahblowme]

It is interesting to observe how the narrative has come around 360 degrees during this, the sixth year of the Chris Collins era. When the former coach was dismissed and sent on his way, the narrative was he had plenty of time to get it done and failed. That having a small recruiting pool was no longer an acceptable excuse. That not having enough depth to overcome the "curse of NU" and the ongoing injury and transfer problems was on the coaching staff. Now on the brink of the fifth season in six without a post-season, and no relief in sight for next year, we are back to the narrative we all used before we got tired of Carmody -- very difficult to recruit here, small pool of qualified talent, can't recruit behind four-year starters, impossible to build depth here, etc. So are we saying that NU really CAN'T be a consistent post-season contender afterall?

first off collins got done what carmody couldn't do. tournamnet. and he did it in half the time. and for the most part he has energized the fan base in ways that carmody couldn't. and he changed the national narrative and perception of NU basketball from lovable losers to legit contenders. those are facts.

i think our team is better now on paper than most of any of carmody's teams. this year team specifically has had a brutal stretch to start the conference and hit a bad streak offensively. again i am interested to see how the 2nd half plays out with 6 home games and not playing pretty much every game on the top half of the conference.

i also think on paper last years team was much better than any of carmody's teams but was derailed by team chemistry.

the major difference is while the high level talent pool is small - NU is now in the mix with those kids. with Carmody there was zero chance of that.

 

[hdhntr1]

It is interesting to observe how the narrative has come around 360 degrees during this, the sixth year of the Chris Collins era. When the former coach was dismissed and sent on his way, the narrative was he had plenty of time to get it done and failed. That having a small recruiting pool was no longer an acceptable excuse. That not having enough depth to overcome the "curse of NU" and the ongoing injury and transfer problems was on the coaching staff. Now on the brink of the fifth season in six without a post-season, and no relief in sight for next year, we are back to the narrative we all used before we got tired of Carmody -- very difficult to recruit here, small pool of qualified talent, can't recruit behind four-year starters, impossible to build depth here, etc. So are we saying that NU really CAN'T be a consistent post-season contender afterall?

Sorry but that was 13 years which last time I checked, is significantly longer than 5.5. Plus we have now been to the Dance and CCC is showing that he can recruit. at the level needed. This team would look a lot different if Lathon hadn't pulled his dumb stunt whatever it was. CCC and the team are playing the hand that was dealt them. Injuries and illnesses are injuries and illnesses and they definitely affect the overall performance but we have seen why several of the 4 star guys were rated as such. There is more overall athletic talent on this team than any I have seen since at least the late 60s. Could CCC do some things better? Probably but without him, the talent would not be here. My guess is next year will be an improvement. We will miss the normal Law (but recently we have not had that) and Pardon for sure. But we will likely have that dedicated PG and AJ will be back to his normal position. Gaines will be doing his best Sanjay/ Jitiim impersonation and Kopp and Nance with Falzon backing them up and the Frosh making an impact will show improvement on the wings. Throw in contributions from the Benson/Young contingent and I am comfortable going into next year.

 

[IdahoAlum]

first off collins got done what carmody couldn't do. tournamnet. and he did it in half the time. and for the most part he has energized the fan base in ways that carmody couldn't. and he changed the national narrative and perception of NU basketball from lovable losers to legit contenders. those are facts.

i think our team is better now on paper than most of any of carmody's teams. this year team specifically has had a brutal stretch to start the conference and hit a bad streak offensively. again i am interested to see how the 2nd half plays out with 6 home games and not playing pretty much every game on the top half of the conference.

i also think on paper last years team was much better than any of carmody's teams but was derailed by team chemistry.

the major difference is while the high level talent pool is small - NU is now in the mix with those kids. with Carmody there was zero chance of that.

I keep hearing how good last year's and this year's teams are "on paper," but the results don't matchup. I guess that is the crux of my concern about Collins. Good coaches get good results. All the rest of the stuff is noise. So far, we've seen four seasons with no post-season, and this year appears headed in the same direction. Surely too early to call next season, but if you had to place a bet, most folks would bet against a post-season for next year, given the personnel situation. To me, the last half of this season will be very telling -- can Collins and the Cats recover and restore some momentum for this program, or is the program simply headed back to Northwestern being Northwestern?

 

[hdhntr1]

I keep hearing how good last year's and this year's teams are "on paper," but the results don't matchup. I guess that is the crux of my concern about Collins. Good coaches get good results. All the rest of the stuff is noise. So far, we've seen four seasons with no post-season, and this year appears headed in the same direction. Surely too early to call next season, but if you had to place a bet, most folks would bet against a post-season for next year, given the personnel situation. To me, the last half of this season will be very telling -- can Collins and the Cats recover and restore some momentum for this program, or is the program simply headed back to Northwestern being Northwestern?

CCC has shown he can put together a team that plays above their paper grade in the past. Injuries and illnesses plus losing your PG can make a huge difference that is hard to overcome. I do not know if next year will be special but I do see improvement over what we have seen in BIG play this year. FIrst, it would be hard for the BIG to be as strong next year as it is this year. We will have a LG. Law is currently not himself and the dropoff will not be as great as if he regains his form (in which case the end of this year will improve) Kopp and Nance will be more ready to play. We will miss Pardon but we really do not know what Young brings

 

[IdahoAlum]

CCC has shown he can put together a team that plays above their paper grade in the past. Injuries and illnesses plus losing your PG can make a huge difference that is hard to overcome. I do not know if next year will be special but I do see improvement over what we have seen in BIG play this year. FIrst, it would be hard for the BIG to be as strong next year as it is this year. We will have a LG. Law is currently not himself and the dropoff will not be as great as if he regains his form (in which case the end of this year will improve) Kopp and Nance will be more ready to play. We will miss Pardon but we really do not know what Young brings

Just curious, who will that lead guard be?

 

[IGNORE]

This team would look a lot different if Lathon hadn't pulled his dumb stunt whatever it was. CCC and the team are playing the hand that was dealt them.

We would have a rookie frosh of the team that clearly isn't ready and would have similar stats to Greer - if he struggles at UTEP against the competition they face, imagine against B1G players. Greer would be hopefully committed for next year w Buie and appease folks like me looking for more guard depth in the recruiting process.

But this year, PG was lost when they didn't land a PG grad transfer and flopped on Vassar and Brown with nothing behind them.

 

[IGNORE]

CCC has shown he can put together a team that plays above their paper grade in the past.

And teams that cannot play to their paper grade (last year...)

Injuries and illnesses plus losing your PG can make a huge difference that is hard to overcome.

Failed to prepare. Failed to have a PG ready to play, should have at least two. I could live with Player X and Lathom or Greer, but frosh are not the answer. CCC failure. And losing Rap? Well, then you cannot blame the injuries - CCC was unable to convince this young man to suit up for NU. He simply coaxed him here to get some good medical attention.

I do not know if next year will be special but I do see improvement over what we have seen in BIG play this year. FIrst, it would be hard for the BIG to be as strong next year as it is this year. We will have a LG. Law is currently not himself and the dropoff will not be as great as if he regains his form (in which case the end of this year will improve) Kopp and Nance will be more ready to play. We will miss Pardon but we really do not know what Young brings

Who is the LG? When has Law ever carried this team but for isolated games? Our bench and redshirt players are like backup QBs, always the best talent ready to save the team.

So, Young is talented enough to make a difference, but his growth was more important than injecting his current talent into this talent deficient team? Are Nance and Kopp going to take some mystery pill that will transform them into quality B1G over a summer? Can we get more of these pills?

We lose Pardon - talented, not a star and stuck doubled teamed to death. We lose Law - streaky player. We lose Ash - is i really a loss? Falzone???

And once again, its the heralded frosh Beran, the hidden gems in the other two frosh, the super developed sophs along with the never seen redshirt Young.

I would love to make an over / under wager on wins next year with you my friend - any interest? Mike - gentlemen's bet?

 

[Catreporter]

IdahoAlum, Indiana and Iowa were historically bad during those Carmody NIT years and newly admitted Nebraska wasn't much either. Collins did what no other coach has ever done and did it in four years so he gets some major slack. And, it isn't as if he's having a 1-17 league disaster like the one that occurred in the middle of Bill's regime.

 

[NJCat]

We would have a rookie frosh of the team that clearly isn't ready and would have similar stats to Greer - if he struggles at UTEP against the competition they face, imagine against B1G players. .

Well, the kid did put up 26 points at Marquette. I'd take that any day of the week.

 

[NJCat]

Failed to prepare. Failed to have a PG ready to play, should have at least two.

As the old coach once said, Failure to Prepare is to Prepare to Fail.......very true in this case.

 

[IdahoAlum]

IdahoAlum, Indiana and Iowa were historically bad during those Carmody NIT years and newly admitted Nebraska wasn't much either. Collins did what no other coach has ever done and did it in four years so he gets some major slack. And, it isn't as if he's having a 1-17 league disaster like the one that occurred in the middle of Bill's regime.

Added to the narrative reverb: "The Big Ten is too tough for us to make any headway."

 

[IGNORE]

Well, the kid did put up 26 points at Marquette. I'd take that any day of the week.

he is averaging 9.5 ppg for the year. More importantly, 3 assists to 2.5 turnovers.

 

[IGNORE]

And teams that cannot play to their paper grade (last year...)



Failed to prepare. Failed to have a PG ready to play, should have at least two. I could live with Player X and Lathom or Greer, but frosh are not the answer. CCC failure. And losing Rap? Well, then you cannot blame the injuries - CCC was unable to convince this young man to suit up for NU. He simply coaxed him here to get some good medical attention.



Who is the LG? When has Law ever carried this team but for isolated games? Our bench and redshirt players are like backup QBs, always the best talent ready to save the team.

So, Young is talented enough to make a difference, but his growth was more important than injecting his current talent into this talent deficient team? Are Nance and Kopp going to take some mystery pill that will transform them into quality B1G over a summer? Can we get more of these pills?

We lose Pardon - talented, not a star and stuck doubled teamed to death. We lose Law - streaky player. We lose Ash - is i really a loss? Falzone???

And once again, its the heralded frosh Beran, the hidden gems in the other two frosh, the super developed sophs along with the never seen redshirt Young.

I would love to make an over / under wager on wins next year with you my friend - any interest? Mike - gentlemen's bet?

And Rap is averaging 14 and 8.5 in 30 mpg.

 

[Catreporter]

And Rap is averaging 14 and 8.5 in 30 mpg.

What's the competition? That league doesn't have any Fernandos or Wards, etc. Kid is right where he should be playing center.

 

[Catreporter]

Added to the narrative reverb: "The Big Ten is too tough for us to make any headway."

Oh come on now....

 

[willycat]

It is interesting to observe how the narrative has come around 360 degrees during this, the sixth year of the Chris Collins era. When the former coach was dismissed and sent on his way, the narrative was he had plenty of time to get it done and failed. That having a small recruiting pool was no longer an acceptable excuse. That not having enough depth to overcome the "curse of NU" and the ongoing injury and transfer problems was on the coaching staff. Now on the brink of the fifth season in six without a post-season, and no relief in sight for next year, we are back to the narrative we all used before we got tired of Carmody -- very difficult to recruit here, small pool of qualified talent, can't recruit behind four-year starters, impossible to build depth here, etc. So are we saying that NU really CAN'T be a consistent post-season contender afterall?

Since Collins got NU into "the tournament" , I would think that he should get at a minimum 8 more years. That's of course if he wants to stay. He has shown a desire to get out and recruit against the best of them and actually stays in Evanston when a recruit visits. I would think that 13 years can be long enough to judge a coach, don't you agree?

 

[NJCat]

he is averaging 9.5 ppg for the year. More importantly, 3 assists to 2.5 turnovers.

We'd be delighted with those numbers at PG for NU. The surrounding cast this season for the Cats >>>>> UTEP.

 

[torque-cat]

We'd be delighted with those numbers at PG for NU. The surrounding cast this season for the Cats >>>>> UTEP.

Greer could very likely average those numbers at UTEP. A high impact big ten frosh would be doing much better at UTEP.

 

[Sec_112]

... So are we saying that NU really CAN'T be a consistent post-season contender afterall?

And so we arrive at that point again, asking:

a) What is the definition of a consistent post-season contender at NU?
b) Is that the next step or is there something in between?

 

[NJCat]

And so we arrive at that point again, asking:

a) What is the definition of a consistent post-season contender at NU?
b) Is that the next step or is there something in between?

I think the answer to both of your questions is, "a winning record"......

 

[haywood jahblowme]

I keep hearing how good last year's and this year's teams are "on paper," but the results don't matchup. I guess that is the crux of my concern about Collins. Good coaches get good results. All the rest of the stuff is noise. So far, we've seen four seasons with no post-season, and this year appears headed in the same direction. Surely too early to call next season, but if you had to place a bet, most folks would bet against a post-season for next year, given the personnel situation. To me, the last half of this season will be very telling -- can Collins and the Cats recover and restore some momentum for this program, or is the program simply headed back to Northwestern being Northwestern?

idaho - this happens every year at alot of schools. closest example for us is OSU this year. but across the power 5 minus the blue bloods this happens.

last year wisconsin was awful with almost the same roster

 

[Medill90]

I keep hearing how good last year's and this year's teams are "on paper," but the results don't matchup. I guess that is the crux of my concern about Collins. Good coaches get good results. All the rest of the stuff is noise. So far, we've seen four seasons with no post-season, and this year appears headed in the same direction. Surely too early to call next season, but if you had to place a bet, most folks would bet against a post-season for next year, given the personnel situation. To me, the last half of this season will be very telling -- can Collins and the Cats recover and restore some momentum for this program, or is the program simply headed back to Northwestern being Northwestern?

I think you raise valid questions. I want to be hopeful for next year but it's a stretch to suggest that NU will be in the post-season. Possible, sure.

The following two years, though, will be much more telling when Nance and Kopp are juniors and seniors, Beran is a sophomore and junior and there will two additional recruiting classes.

There's going to be a ton data that we don't today possess, and no Rosemont Horizon stuck in the middle of it (the opposite, actually).

To the macro picture, initially I thought Collins had broken the recruiting ceiling on bigs. There's no question in my mind that he's been NU's best recruiter, but the bigs are a challenge. NU has nice length at 1-3 and even a bit of 4 now with Nance. But, it's the Big Ten and quality size at the 4-5 is mandatory. I'm not sure that NU is there and I'm not sure that you can win in the Big Ten consistently with above average 1-3's. Indiana, MSU, Michigan and Wisconsin were a different level in the paint.

I don't think it's about NU's history. I just don't think that NU coaches can get those kids admitted.

I wish they had someone focused on recruiting bigs outside the U.S. I have to believe Collins is wired to those players, but we haven't heard about ex US recruits in a while. Australia, Central and Northern Europe. And, the immigrant kids from Africa and the islands from academically-focused homes.

Easy for me to say.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

idaho - this happens every year at alot of schools. closest example for us is OSU this year. but across the power 5 minus the blue bloods this happens.

last year wisconsin was awful with almost the same roster

Penn State this year. They just threw one away against Purdue tonight.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Just curious, who will that lead guard be?

Maybe one of those players you broadcast for. You got any pull?

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Greer could very likely average those numbers at UTEP. A high impact big ten frosh would be doing much better at UTEP.

freshmen scoring big ten. here is the top 50. - frosh are not exactly lighting it up for any school - let alone our developmental guys who don't get near those minutes
also added our guys in the top 50 - if anything maybe its a case to give out young guys more time and kopp and nance are on par per min scoring with the other frosh (no looking at +/- just raw scoring)


10th - law - NU - 15.3 ppg - 32.7 min
11th - brazdeikis - um - 15.1 ppg - 29.5 min
15th - pardon - NU - 13.9 ppg - 31.6 min
23rd - taylor - NU - 11.7 ppg - 30.7 min
24th - bolton - psu - 11.5 ppg - 26 min
25th - wieskamp - iowa - 11.2 ppg - 26 min
26th - bezhanishvilli - ill - 11.1 ppg - 24.8 min
28th - kalscheur - minn - 10.4 ppg - 28.8 min
34th - dread - psu - 8.8 ppg - 29.3 min
37th - wiggins - md - 8.6 ppg - 24.5 min
39th - ayala - md - 8.5 ppg - 28.5 min
42nd - mathis - rut - 8.4 ppg - 21.6 min
43rd - turner - NU - 8.1 ppg - 30.1 min
46nd - washington - osu - 7.2 ppg - 17.2 min

gaines - NU - 6.5 ppg - 26.1 min
greer - NU - 1.9 ppg - 10.9 min
nance - NU - 3.4 ppg - 12.6 min (probably around 8 if he get 25 min)
kopp - NU - 4.7 ppg - 14.7 min (probably around 8 if he got 25 min)
falzon - NU - 6 ppg - 12 min

i used these two links to get the info
https://www.foxsports.com/college-b...=2018&category=scoring&group=17&sort=3&time=0 (no law on this one)
https://www.foxsports.com/college-b...8&category=SCORING&sort=3&time=0&pos=0&team=0

apologies for any misses i went through it fast

 

[xxxbobxxx]

We'd be delighted with those numbers at PG for NU. The surrounding cast this season for the Cats >>>>> UTEP.

Could make the same argument for RI and supporting cast. Just sayin - gotta flow both ways.

 

[mikewebb68]

Could make the same argument for RI and supporting cast. Just sayin - gotta flow both ways.

Uh, why are you posting under this screenname?

EDIT; n/m, just saw the reason in your other post. Carry on.

 

[Catreporter]

RI is not a big ten center period! And that's his only position.