What went wrong on this play? Huge carry by Yant early in the game

[Harris_Island]

It's a manageable 2nd & 10 and the game is still in question. Nebraska has a TE and two receivers to the far side of the field. We have our base 4-3.

There's no triple option, nothing funny going on here. Nebraska's LG pulls and comes over to pick up our DE Miller. Miller crashes inside the pulling guard but the RB has already cut outside and at this point we are in trouble.

Bergin is then 1-on-1 with a RB in the open field, so it's hard to blame him for not making a solo tackle. Thankfully we've got our all-American safety Joseph coming over to help... whoops he takes a bad angle.

So then we've got 180 lb AJ Hampton as the last man standing between 245 lb Yant going full speed and paydirt and... kudos to Hampton for dodging the stiff arm and preventing (for a moment) the TD.

Thoughts? On this play, is it bad coaching, lack of talent, or both?



(I linked to the start of the play, which is at 2:00 in the video.)

 

[TheC]

Another example of a DE basically taking himself out of the play without a backup plan. The middle linebacker also crashes immediately to basically the same spot that our DE is going. They both end up out of the play, totally voluntarily. That leaves Bergin, who it seems is sitting initially back in coverage and he seems late to respond to the handoff and then takes an awful angle. So, I'm guessing its a combination of a scheme that makes no sense and lack of talent.

Watching it again, I don't even know what the heck our middle linebacker was looking at. He seems to put his head down and rush straight forward to a spot in the backfield. He doesn't even seem to acknowledge that the ball was handed off. By the time he gets into the backfield, the ballcarrier is already outside the tackle box and crossing the line of scrimmage by that point. I just don't understand what the heck he is doing. Can anyone explain that?

 

[SmellyCat]

I don't even know what the heck our middle linebacker was looking at. He seems to put his head down and rush straight forward to a spot in the backfield. He doesn't even seem to acknowledge that the ball was handed off. By the time he gets into the backfield, the ballcarrier is already outside the tackle box and crossing the line of scrimmage by that point. I just don't understand what the heck he is doing. Can anyone explain that?

I don't know, but to his credit, he was at least back in the play at the end, knocking Yant a little bit out of bounds after Hampton finally knocked him out.

 

[zeek55]

Wish we had more threads like this on the forums; helps provide meaningful insight when you see plays broken down like this.

Pretty much looked like everything went wrong on that play that could go wrong.

Hard to put a weight on how much of this is on the players versus the coach for an all systems breakdown like what happens on that play in particular.

I feel like enough of this is on the coaches that I feel confident in saying that our defense would be better prepared to cut a play like that short earlier under Hank.

https://ninernoise.com/2016/09/26/4...efensive-coordinator-jim-oneils-shortcomings/

Posted this in another thread, figure I would here. If players are often out of position in his schemes (whether at the pro level or here), isn't that a JON problem?

 

[CSCatFan1]

Another example of a DE basically taking himself out of the play without a backup plan. The middle linebacker also crashes immediately to basically the same spot that our DE is going. They both end up out of the play, totally voluntarily. That leaves Bergin, who it seems is sitting initially back in coverage and he seems late to respond to the handoff and then takes an awful angle. So, I'm guessing its a combination of a scheme that makes no sense and lack of talent.

Watching it again, I don't even know what the heck our middle linebacker was looking at. He seems to put his head down and rush straight forward to a spot in the backfield. He doesn't even seem to acknowledge that the ball was handed off. By the time he gets into the backfield, the ballcarrier is already outside the tackle box and crossing the line of scrimmage by that point. I just don't understand what the heck he is doing. Can anyone explain that?

Are we watching the same thing? Was Bergin not in position to make the tackle? Did Joseph not take a terrible angle? How is this possibly JON’s fault? What am I missing?

 

[IAWildcat79]

Lots to unwrap on this one...

First question I'd have is if Miller's responsibility was to spill or force. Based on his technique (wrong-arming the puller), I would like to think that he expected to play the B gap and left the C gap responsibility to a scraping LB. If Miller misplayed this and was supposed to force, then he caused a lot of the mayhem that happened behind him.

If Miller was set to spill, then I have no clue what Gallagher was doing. Late to react, "read" step didn't happen, then shot the same gap as Miller AFTER Miller had already shot it, seemingly for an aiming point representing where Yant WAS not WHERE HE WAS GOING. Gallagher's delay also allowed him to be washed/blocked down easily.

Even after all of the above, we still had a LB 1 on 1 with a big back (albeit with a running start) and you'd like to think that's a coin flip match. Bergin's mistake was losing leverage/stopping his feet. If he stays on the outside pad and forces Yant to slow down or cut inside, he might not make the play, but at least he's got Joseph coming up behind him. That was Bergin's other mistake, I would guess...not knowing where help was coming from. But it wasn't an easy ask for Bergin, as he was coming from depth given his pass responsibilities, but he still needs to do far better to slow down the back and force a change of direction. If that guy wants to go outside, you make him almost have to flatten completely out before getting upfield and he wasn't able to do that. I would also add that Joseph's angle looks that much worse because of the way Bergin played it...it seemed apparent that Joseph expected Bergin to force that back into his help at the least.

So to summarize and/or answer the question...bad coaching, bad talent, or both? I'm not really sure. I'm convinced one of either Miller or Gallagher messed up. In an alternative reality, I'd love to see what would have happened if Miller simply played contain, taking on the blocker with his outside shoulder free, which theoretically would have allowed Gallagher to shoot hit gap and likely make the tackle for a minimal gain.

 

[DaCat]

In an alternative reality, I'd love to see what would have happened if Miller simply played contain, taking on the blocker with his outside shoulder free, which theoretically would have allowed Gallagher to shoot hit gap and likely make the tackle for a minimal gain.

Great post. You just described Hank's defense, where Miller would contain and the linebacker makes the play, not the O'Neil bullsh** which led to multiple explosion plays.

 

[Harris_Island]

It sure looks like something went wrong between Miller and Gallagher, but it's also sobering to see our super-senior LB and star safety get roasted in the open field by a 245 lb back. Credit Yant, though, he made some nice moves.

I wonder if Gallagher didn't think that Martinez was keeping the ball. If Martinez had kept it, Gallagher still had no chance to catch him, and there was a lot of open grass on the short side of the field with only Mitchell out there to have to get around a WR to make that tackle.

 

[IAWildcat79]

I wonder if Gallagher didn't think that Martinez was keeping the ball. If Martinez had kept it, Gallagher still had no chance to catch him, and there was a lot of open grass on the short side of the field with only Mitchell out there to have to get around a WR to make that tackle.

Even though the play went to the other side, AA got bailed out by Martinez handing it off on this play because he totally busted contain to the boundary side as well. He played his eyes instead of his technique and as Martinez leaks out the backside, you can see him react far too late (had Martinez actually kept the ball) to get back outside. My guess on that play is he's got C gap to the boundary side and lucky for him, the play didn't come back that way because he completely lost contain.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Take it to the Yant Board! sheesh

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Even though the play went to the other side, AA got bailed out by Martinez handing it off on this play because he totally busted contain to the boundary side as well. He played his eyes instead of his technique and as Martinez leaks out the backside, you can see him react far too late (had Martinez actually kept the ball) to get back outside. My guess on that play is he's got C gap to the boundary side and lucky for him, the play didn't come back that way because he completely lost contain.

This play was so poorly covered that Martinez would have had a huge gain or even scored himself he he just kept the ball.

 

[techtim72]

Plays are going to happen and some go bad. Just how many. Strikes me that our D-line play has been schematically more offensive than conservative defensively and that has hurt. Intuitively when you have great, instinctive athletes a team can fly around. Teams with average athletes might be better off to be more conservative.

 

[loyolacat]

We have our base 4-3.

My knowledge is minimal...but looking at the formation doesnt Bergin seem deep? is this the 4-2 star ? Bergin looks like he is 10 yards off the line of scrimmage... I also agree with a couple of the posts that maybe the ON defense is based on superior athletes and to stopping one back offenses and 5 receiver sets ? Also it seems like our defensive ends have crashed a lot this year rather than contain requiring our linebackers (not the fastest) left to cover way too much territory.....my question is , is this intentional by ON defensive design or player mistake ? I found this description of this system (funny it is titled Youth Football) https://youthfootballonline.com/understanding-the-4-2-5-defense-strengths-and-weaknesses/

 

[Harris_Island]

My knowledge is minimal...but looking at the formation doesnt Bergin seem deep? is this the 4-2 star ? Bergin looks like he is 10 yards off the line of scrimmage... I also agree with a couple of the posts that maybe the ON defense is based on superior athletes and to stopping one back offenses and 5 receiver sets ? Also it seems like our defensive ends have crashed a lot this year rather than contain requiring our linebackers (not the fastest) left to cover way too much territory.....my question is , is this intentional by ON defensive design or player mistake ? I found this description of this system (funny it is titled Youth Football) https://youthfootballonline.com/understanding-the-4-2-5-defense-strengths-and-weaknesses/

We've got three linebackers out there: McIntyre, Gallagher 2.0, and Bergin. Bergin is probably out where he is because of the tight end (on the right side of the line). When we switch to the 4-2-5, one of the LBs goes out and a DB comes in. Lately it seems to be Rod Heard coming in for McIntyre.