When all the Smoke Clears

billoliver40

All-American
Dec 16, 2015
6,736
9,444
0
...and the coaches are settled and the players transferred in and out to wherever they want to go,
will someone somewhere please tell me the direction this program wants to go? (besides down or in the trash)

Do we want to be air raid, pro set, west coast, run oriented, grind It out, pound the ball.....What?
On defense, are we 4-3, 3-4.....are we an attacking D that will blitz or bend don't break and hope for mistake on the other side? Does our secondary play man or do they zone.....or do they know the difference?

I've been watching since Rich Brooks left, and for the life of me I can't tell which direction we are recruiting for or coaching kids up for or hiring coaches for.
 

Kats23

All-American
Nov 21, 2007
8,673
5,890
63
We have no identity esp on offense. Where are we going? Good question. Our head coach doesn't even seem to know
 

vhcat70

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
57,418
38,482
0
Balanced on offense.
Multiple on defense.
Balanced as in scoring 30 pints/game average? OR balanced as in not succeeding passing or running?

Multiple as in stopping the opponents most 3rd downs? OR multiple as the number of ways opposing O's make it on 3rd down?
 

BlueRaider22

All-American
Sep 24, 2003
15,562
9,058
0
Offense - Stoops wants to run a flexible spread offense. This basically means playing to the strengths of your personnel. If you lack a passing game then run it. Lack a running game hen pass it. The ideal offense would be fairly balanced.....explosive and variable in its approach. Eddie Gran as an OC would fit this perfectly.

There are very few who run a "real" Air Raid but there are those (Brown, etc) that still claim to run it. In reality they run basically an explosive up-tempo spread. Which is what Stoops wanted all along. He never wanted Mumme/Leach ball.....that notion was born of fan ignorance.

Defense - almost no team runs a strict front alignment anymore. A team that claims to run a 4-3 doesn't really do it strictly.....they run elements of a nickel, a 3-4, etc. We have started with more of a 3-4 base but that's not all were gonna do. We will run all kinds of alignments and fronts.

Stoops has always ran an attacking defense, but it is a bend not break defense. Many get confused by this b/c they view the words "bend not break" as soft and conservative. This is not the case. It's simply a philosophy where you attack with the offense in front of you.....under no circumstances do you let them behind you. But you attack none-the-less.



Here are the issues that we are seeing:
1. Offense - Joker ran a pro-style offense. There are differences between pro-style players and spread players. So, under the best circumstances it takes years to change the roster over. Unfortunately we didn't have the best of circumstances. Joker left the roster in horrid shape, Brown left for a very special job in his eyes before the roster could be turned over, Dawson was most likely a mistake of a hire, and we lost several key OL recruits. Not to mention very possible or likely poor coaching......WR/QB/OL development, game management, play calling, poor play, etc. For these many reasons they just couldn't execute. And when execution is a problem then things like speeding up-tempo go right out the window as well. (Just ask Texas A&M)

Getting a guy like Eddie Gran is critical. Coming off a guy that he couldn't trust in Dawson, Stoops needs a very veteran friend that he can trust. Also, the players need someone with great experience and pedigree to get behind in the wake of several OC changes. He's darn near the perfect fit for what Stoops wants and he couldn't come at the best time. That is, if he comes.

2. Under the best of circumstances, it takes about 3-4 yrs to switch over personnel from a 3-4 to a 4-3. (Even though I mentioned that teams are multiple). Joker left the cupboard bare, Eliot is a first time DC, and we had a few losses on the defensive front 7 (guys like Tubman, etc). All of this didn't help matters at all. Not to mention not having an offense or special teams makes it darn near impossible to play decent defense.

Depth is crucial throughout the season. Guys get fatigued throughout the year. Without depth this is damning. The same can be said for playing experience as well. Sure, a freshman can do quite well if he plays between two seniors but when you have a freshman playing between two other freshman and little to no depth.....ouch!

3. Special teams....who's responsible? I think Stoops is right. I think that a staff "could" get by without a ST Coordinator but I certainly wouldn't try it as a rookie HC. To me that's just a poor mistake in judgement. There's a reason why the vast majority of teams still employ a ST Coordinator.


It's not all doom and gloom though. Strangely enough between the poor coaching, the youth, the inexperience, etc, we still were just a handful of plays away from a .500 regular season. "If" we do improve in some key areas the ship can right. Since, the contract has more or less locked Stoops up for 2 more yrs, I guess the only thing we can do is sit back, cheer for our Cats, and pray.
 

Crushgroove

Heisman
Oct 11, 2014
7,331
18,625
0
...and the coaches are settled and the players transferred in and out to wherever they want to go,
will someone somewhere please tell me the direction this program wants to go? (besides down or in the trash)

Do we want to be air raid, pro set, west coast, run oriented, grind It out, pound the ball.....What?
On defense, are we 4-3, 3-4.....are we an attacking D that will blitz or bend don't break and hope for mistake on the other side? Does our secondary play man or do they zone.....or do they know the difference?

I've been watching since Rich Brooks left, and for the life of me I can't tell which direction we are recruiting for or coaching kids up for or hiring coaches for.

Brother Bill. How's retirement?

While future direction is debatable, I don't think there's been a set direction for forging an identity for this team thus far, instead placing emphasis on fully utilizing a hodgepodge, undermanned and less talented roster that lacks quality upperclassmen in effort to get the most out of what little we have. IOW, we haven't and still don't have enough pieces to have an identity yet and I'm not sure we ever will. I think resulting coaches and roster will dictate more of what we are in short 2-4 year cycles than any implemented or forced long-term system, given our inherent shortcomings.
 

K_TIME

Heisman
Jan 2, 2003
18,100
24,958
113
UK is a 3-4 Defensive scheme.
UK is probably going to hire another offensive coordinator that lines up in shotgun 99% of the time and tries to be balanced on run vs. pass...while not using the QB as a viable running weapon.

That is the scheme's we will run....can we execute upon it is another story all together.
 

dcspurlock

All-Conference
Apr 12, 2007
2,379
1,086
0
A lack of identity on O or D will be the downfall of Stoops. Claims he wants one thing, recruits to said thing then gets cold feet then goes to something different. No idea what he truly wants and will end up paying for it in the end.
 

murpack

Redshirt
Oct 16, 2004
641
11
0
I watched Duke-Indiana yesterday. Duke scored on a kick off return and IU missed a field goal in OT. Special teams is important, people. We don't even have a special teams coach.
What does that tell you?
 
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TM85

Redshirt
Jan 29, 2008
108
7
3
Offense - Stoops wants to run a flexible spread offense. This basically means playing to the strengths of your personnel. If you lack a passing game then run it. Lack a running game hen pass it. The ideal offense would be fairly balanced.....explosive and variable in its approach. Eddie Gran as an OC would fit this perfectly.

There are very few who run a "real" Air Raid but there are those (Brown, etc) that still claim to run it. In reality they run basically an explosive up-tempo spread. Which is what Stoops wanted all along. He never wanted Mumme/Leach ball.....that notion was born of fan ignorance.

Defense - almost no team runs a strict front alignment anymore. A team that claims to run a 4-3 doesn't really do it strictly.....they run elements of a nickel, a 3-4, etc. We have started with more of a 3-4 base but that's not all were gonna do. We will run all kinds of alignments and fronts.

Stoops has always ran an attacking defense, but it is a bend not break defense. Many get confused by this b/c they view the words "bend not break" as soft and conservative. This is not the case. It's simply a philosophy where you attack with the offense in front of you.....under no circumstances do you let them behind you. But you attack none-the-less.



Here are the issues that we are seeing:
1. Offense - Joker ran a pro-style offense. There are differences between pro-style players and spread players. So, under the best circumstances it takes years to change the roster over. Unfortunately we didn't have the best of circumstances. Joker left the roster in horrid shape, Brown left for a very special job in his eyes before the roster could be turned over, Dawson was most likely a mistake of a hire, and we lost several key OL recruits. Not to mention very possible or likely poor coaching......WR/QB/OL development, game management, play calling, poor play, etc. For these many reasons they just couldn't execute. And when execution is a problem then things like speeding up-tempo go right out the window as well. (Just ask Texas A&M)

Getting a guy like Eddie Gran is critical. Coming off a guy that he couldn't trust in Dawson, Stoops needs a very veteran friend that he can trust. Also, the players need someone with great experience and pedigree to get behind in the wake of several OC changes. He's darn near the perfect fit for what Stoops wants and he couldn't come at the best time. That is, if he comes.

2. Under the best of circumstances, it takes about 3-4 yrs to switch over personnel from a 3-4 to a 4-3. (Even though I mentioned that teams are multiple). Joker left the cupboard bare, Eliot is a first time DC, and we had a few losses on the defensive front 7 (guys like Tubman, etc). All of this didn't help matters at all. Not to mention not having an offense or special teams makes it darn near impossible to play decent defense.

Depth is crucial throughout the season. Guys get fatigued throughout the year. Without depth this is damning. The same can be said for playing experience as well. Sure, a freshman can do quite well if he plays between two seniors but when you have a freshman playing between two other freshman and little to no depth.....ouch!

3. Special teams....who's responsible? I think Stoops is right. I think that a staff "could" get by without a ST Coordinator but I certainly wouldn't try it as a rookie HC. To me that's just a poor mistake in judgement. There's a reason why the vast majority of teams still employ a ST Coordinator.


It's not all doom and gloom though. Strangely enough between the poor coaching, the youth, the inexperience, etc, we still were just a handful of plays away from a .500 regular season. "If" we do improve in some key areas the ship can right. Since, the contract has more or less locked Stoops up for 2 more yrs, I guess the only thing we can do is sit back, cheer for our Cats, and pray.


Great post BlueRaider. The guy at Oklahoma runs a lot of true Air Raid and of course Washington State does as well. Gran is critical. I think Coley could get the job done but really hoping for Gran. Defensivly I like our defense. Just have to get more depth. It won us games and kept us in a lot more.
 

TM85

Redshirt
Jan 29, 2008
108
7
3
I watched Duke-Indiana yesterday. Duke scored on a kick off return and IU missed a field goal in OT. Special teams is important, people. We don't even have a special teams coach.
What does that tell you?
I watched Duke-Indiana yesterday. Duke scored on a kick off return and IU missed a field goal in OT. Special teams is important, people. We don't even have a special teams coach.
What does that tell you?

Nothing. I know a lot of teams that don't have a ST coach. Each assistant have a ST they coach. Give the title to Ansley and give him a raise so he doesn't leave.
 

merrimanm

Heisman
Dec 14, 2009
17,435
29,928
113
Offense - Stoops wants to run a flexible spread offense. This basically means playing to the strengths of your personnel. If you lack a passing game then run it. Lack a running game hen pass it. The ideal offense would be fairly balanced.....explosive and variable in its approach. Eddie Gran as an OC would fit this perfectly.

There are very few who run a "real" Air Raid but there are those (Brown, etc) that still claim to run it. In reality they run basically an explosive up-tempo spread. Which is what Stoops wanted all along. He never wanted Mumme/Leach ball.....that notion was born of fan ignorance.

Defense - almost no team runs a strict front alignment anymore. A team that claims to run a 4-3 doesn't really do it strictly.....they run elements of a nickel, a 3-4, etc. We have started with more of a 3-4 base but that's not all were gonna do. We will run all kinds of alignments and fronts.

Stoops has always ran an attacking defense, but it is a bend not break defense. Many get confused by this b/c they view the words "bend not break" as soft and conservative. This is not the case. It's simply a philosophy where you attack with the offense in front of you.....under no circumstances do you let them behind you. But you attack none-the-less.



Here are the issues that we are seeing:
1. Offense - Joker ran a pro-style offense. There are differences between pro-style players and spread players. So, under the best circumstances it takes years to change the roster over. Unfortunately we didn't have the best of circumstances. Joker left the roster in horrid shape, Brown left for a very special job in his eyes before the roster could be turned over, Dawson was most likely a mistake of a hire, and we lost several key OL recruits. Not to mention very possible or likely poor coaching......WR/QB/OL development, game management, play calling, poor play, etc. For these many reasons they just couldn't execute. And when execution is a problem then things like speeding up-tempo go right out the window as well. (Just ask Texas A&M)

Getting a guy like Eddie Gran is critical. Coming off a guy that he couldn't trust in Dawson, Stoops needs a very veteran friend that he can trust. Also, the players need someone with great experience and pedigree to get behind in the wake of several OC changes. He's darn near the perfect fit for what Stoops wants and he couldn't come at the best time. That is, if he comes.

2. Under the best of circumstances, it takes about 3-4 yrs to switch over personnel from a 3-4 to a 4-3. (Even though I mentioned that teams are multiple). Joker left the cupboard bare, Eliot is a first time DC, and we had a few losses on the defensive front 7 (guys like Tubman, etc). All of this didn't help matters at all. Not to mention not having an offense or special teams makes it darn near impossible to play decent defense.

Depth is crucial throughout the season. Guys get fatigued throughout the year. Without depth this is damning. The same can be said for playing experience as well. Sure, a freshman can do quite well if he plays between two seniors but when you have a freshman playing between two other freshman and little to no depth.....ouch!

3. Special teams....who's responsible? I think Stoops is right. I think that a staff "could" get by without a ST Coordinator but I certainly wouldn't try it as a rookie HC. To me that's just a poor mistake in judgement. There's a reason why the vast majority of teams still employ a ST Coordinator.


It's not all doom and gloom though. Strangely enough between the poor coaching, the youth, the inexperience, etc, we still were just a handful of plays away from a .500 regular season. "If" we do improve in some key areas the ship can right. Since, the contract has more or less locked Stoops up for 2 more yrs, I guess the only thing we can do is sit back, cheer for our Cats, and pray.
One of the best posts I have seen in a long time.
 

Levibooty

All-American
Jun 29, 2005
26,547
7,667
0
Offense - Stoops wants to run a flexible spread offense. This basically means playing to the strengths of your personnel. If you lack a passing game then run it. Lack a running game hen pass it. The ideal offense would be fairly balanced.....explosive and variable in its approach. Eddie Gran as an OC would fit this perfectly.

There are very few who run a "real" Air Raid but there are those (Brown, etc) that still claim to run it. In reality they run basically an explosive up-tempo spread. Which is what Stoops wanted all along. He never wanted Mumme/Leach ball.....that notion was born of fan ignorance.

Defense - almost no team runs a strict front alignment anymore. A team that claims to run a 4-3 doesn't really do it strictly.....they run elements of a nickel, a 3-4, etc. We have started with more of a 3-4 base but that's not all were gonna do. We will run all kinds of alignments and fronts.

Stoops has always ran an attacking defense, but it is a bend not break defense. Many get confused by this b/c they view the words "bend not break" as soft and conservative. This is not the case. It's simply a philosophy where you attack with the offense in front of you.....under no circumstances do you let them behind you. But you attack none-the-less.



Here are the issues that we are seeing:
1. Offense - Joker ran a pro-style offense. There are differences between pro-style players and spread players. So, under the best circumstances it takes years to change the roster over. Unfortunately we didn't have the best of circumstances. Joker left the roster in horrid shape, Brown left for a very special job in his eyes before the roster could be turned over, Dawson was most likely a mistake of a hire, and we lost several key OL recruits. Not to mention very possible or likely poor coaching......WR/QB/OL development, game management, play calling, poor play, etc. For these many reasons they just couldn't execute. And when execution is a problem then things like speeding up-tempo go right out the window as well. (Just ask Texas A&M)

Getting a guy like Eddie Gran is critical. Coming off a guy that he couldn't trust in Dawson, Stoops needs a very veteran friend that he can trust. Also, the players need someone with great experience and pedigree to get behind in the wake of several OC changes. He's darn near the perfect fit for what Stoops wants and he couldn't come at the best time. That is, if he comes.

2. Under the best of circumstances, it takes about 3-4 yrs to switch over personnel from a 3-4 to a 4-3. (Even though I mentioned that teams are multiple). Joker left the cupboard bare, Eliot is a first time DC, and we had a few losses on the defensive front 7 (guys like Tubman, etc). All of this didn't help matters at all. Not to mention not having an offense or special teams makes it darn near impossible to play decent defense.

Depth is crucial throughout the season. Guys get fatigued throughout the year. Without depth this is damning. The same can be said for playing experience as well. Sure, a freshman can do quite well if he plays between two seniors but when you have a freshman playing between two other freshman and little to no depth.....ouch!

3. Special teams....who's responsible? I think Stoops is right. I think that a staff "could" get by without a ST Coordinator but I certainly wouldn't try it as a rookie HC. To me that's just a poor mistake in judgement. There's a reason why the vast majority of teams still employ a ST Coordinator.


It's not all doom and gloom though. Strangely enough between the poor coaching, the youth, the inexperience, etc, we still were just a handful of plays away from a .500 regular season. "If" we do improve in some key areas the ship can right. Since, the contract has more or less locked Stoops up for 2 more yrs, I guess the only thing we can do is sit back, cheer for our Cats, and pray.

I think and hope Stoops will simply drop the pretense of an Air Raid offense. I believe when Stoops was hired one of his most important interviews was with Tim Couch. Couch was a great QB and like most of the players that played for Mumme (Anthony White admitted this recently) he is still enamored with the Air Raid offense. Those guys saw nothing but success with that offense when they were in college and think it would still work today. Even Mumme says Leach is the only coach today that runs the true Air Raid offense. That says something about its success in today's game.

Stoops said this after talking to Couch:
“I understand the impact that Tim has on this university. Again, I want to lean on Tim and visit with him about some ideas because he's been around football”. I think Stoops felt his best move would be to incorporate the offense that Kentucky had played a big part in introducing it to college football. I don't think the Air Raid per se is the answer anymore.

It appears to me the offense that has shown to be the most innovative and successful is the spread zone-read option attack with a balance of run and pass which includes a lot of play action. The basic premise being much the same as the Air Raid inasmuch as the offense spreads the field and then puts the defense in a position of having to make a single commitment while the offense retains one or more options. Pass routes that make a DB choose who and where he must cover increasing his mistakes.

I think Stoops being a defensive oriented coach has even intimated that he knows what he wants from an offense, just not as sure which offensive system will give him that. He appears to be going back to what he is familiar with.
 

theoledog

All-Conference
Nov 21, 2008
4,306
1,444
0
If it is EG who gets the job I think he'll have a pallet of colors to work with... UK has run the ball well at times and passed well at times... Different players have shown up and disspapeared the next week... QB play was no different than other positions on O.... Bottom line, unless we go to an OC that runs the QB a lot, we should be okay... It's been said of EG that he'll run what the talent allows and gives the team the best chance at success... Stoops, Barnhart and the fans, deserve a break so I hope this works out with EG... Seems to be a solid career coach and that's is worth a whole lot in our current dysfunctional (well it seems to me) situation... Three's a charm ya know?....
 

BlueRaider22

All-American
Sep 24, 2003
15,562
9,058
0
I don't think Stoops needed too much convincing to bring Brown on board. Stoops has kinda been enamored with Oklahoma State.....which claims to run the Air Raid. One of the architects of OSU's current offense is Dana Holgorson....who helped lay the groundwork for their version of the Air Raid. Holgorson also coached at Texas Tech. So bringing in Brown from Tech probably wasn't a huge departure from what Stoops wanted.

It also makes the Dawson (a Holgorson disciple) choice more understandable. Not to mention brings new light to the continuity fit that was desired from Brown to Dawson.

I don't think Stoops knew what was going to happen when Brown was chosen. All of the sudden the media and fans took off with "Air Raid" chatter. Stoops knew that Brown didn't truly run the traditional Air Raid. Brown knew that he didn't run the traditional Air Raid. But most fans are not educated enough to know the difference. The media sold the "return of the Air Raid." Fans clamored to bring back the sirens while visions of Mumme-ball danced in their heads. There's just a huge misunderstanding of what is desired and what may be desired.
 

theoledog

All-Conference
Nov 21, 2008
4,306
1,444
0
And one last thing... For all those who view Stoops in the short term weighting "make or break games... or.... make or break seasons"
Pay no attention to Matt Jones.... He likes to bang the drums as it makes for good radio.....
Give it rest.... Go back and look at UK's coaches past and their yearly records...
5 win seasons aren't the deal breakers... Hope or the lack of it, has been the demise of coaches....
Give fans some hope and a coach can make a check here ..... for 7-10 years looks to me.
Getting harder to sell that vague and illusive perspective for sure.........
But Stoops has been damn close two years in a row under less than ideal conditions (turmoil)
So there's a little "hope" bone for all you today.........
 
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TM85

Redshirt
Jan 29, 2008
108
7
3
I've always heard that Stoops never wanted, and to this day have never actually heard Coach Stoops say I want to run the Air Raid. I've been told he was pressured into hiring Neal Brown.
 

billoliver40

All-American
Dec 16, 2015
6,736
9,444
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Apparently Coach Gran has been assured that he will have autonomy (as much as possible without being THE head coach) in running his version of the offense. This ain't bad.....since no where, no way, no how have I ever read that coach Mark Stoops ever did anything at all with offense in any of his coaching duties. He was a defensive mind.

Really gonna be awfully interesting how this thing will play out this year.

Of course, you know if our offensive players are truly as bad as they appeared last year we could have Halas, Rockne, Walsh and Bellicheck calling the plays and it won't matter.