When do the excuses start?

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Fitz was all indignant (as was I) about being downgraded for "lost production". When will he glom onto this as the excuse for 2021? I don't mean the usual "we didn't execute " but more like "we are playing so many inexperienced players", "we've had two new coordinators in 2 years", "we had key injuries".

We all know the real reasons. 1) at least one coordinator was a failed hire. 2) the players are inexperienced because they weren't good enough to see the field previously, which is a failure of recruiting or development. 3) there is zero accountability in the program, top to bottom.

 

[willycat]

Fitz was all indignant (as was I) about being downgraded for "lost production". When will he glom onto this as the excuse for 2021? I don't mean the usual "we didn't execute " but more like "we are playing so many inexperienced players", "we've had two new coordinators in 2 years", "we had key injuries".

We all know the real reasons. 1) at least one coordinator was a failed hire. 2) the players are inexperienced because they weren't good enough to see the field previously, which is a failure of recruiting or development. 3) there is zero accountability in the program, top to bottom.

Admissions works against winning.

 

[zeek55]

Well like it or not, there will be accountability if this continues. How long, dunno, but Fitz had better understand what the problem is and revamp the program quickly this offseason.

We are one of those programs that can't really afford a long swoon. We're a private school in a pro market with a fanbase that will abandon the team if we're not producing wins on the field.

Even Bajakian will be on the hot seat if they don't dramatically improve the offensive production over the next 2 years.

There's just a point at which you're either bringing in and developing offensive talent or you're not.

 

[NUCat320]

Frankly, our problem is that the “hot seat” requires four years of crap production.

It’s a shame that all the good OC’s want to score points, and Fitz wants them to just avoid turnovers and run the ball, but then that would require recruiting more than two competent linemen every four year cycle. Some real chicken or egg stuff in the offense.

Hey — did we point out the palindromic final score?! Nobody watched to the end, I presume.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Frankly, our problem is that the “hot seat” requires four years of crap production.

It’s a shame that all the good OC’s want to score points, and Fitz wants them to just avoid turnovers and run the ball, but then that would require recruiting more than two competent linemen every four year cycle. Some real chicken or egg stuff in the offense.

Hey — did we point out the palindromic final score?! Nobody watched to the end, I presume.

So the hot seat you describe is like when you eat too much curry and you sit on the hot seat for what seems like 4 years of crap production..sounds about right

 

[NUCat320]

So the hot seat you describe is like when you eat too much curry and you sit on the hot seat for what seems like 4 years of crap production..sounds about right

That was a regrettable phrasing, eh?
(Just referring to @zeek55’s comment that Bajakian will find himself on the hot seat after two more years of this hot garbage.)

 

[Ryanfield124]

Admissions work against winning...What a stock lame excuse. THAT IS THE JOB and frankly, then how did that hindrance get us into the B1G championship x2? Fitz is one of the longest tenured coaches in the Power5 and one of the highest paid. He is 54-54 in the B1G. Figure it TF out. He won't.

 

[Rebel_]

Admissions work against winning...What a stock lame excuse. THAT IS THE JOB and frankly, then how did that hindrance get us into the B1G championship x2? Fitz is one of the longest tenured coaches in the Power5 and one of the highest paid. He is 54-54 in the B1G. Figure it TF out. He won't.

Name the last NU football coach anywhere near 54-54. Please?

 

[Ryanfield124]

Name the last NU football coach anywhere near 54-54. Please?

OMG that is the lowest denominator argument. With the facilities, market, stadium on the way, talent within 100 miles of campus, funding, coaching payscale, & education available... You accept .500? Wow. Let me send you my resume and let me work for your company.

With NUs resources here is where .500 is unacceptable... Nebraska, Minnesota, Purdue, Wisconsin, Indiana, Maryland, Rutgers, MSU. We have better resources than the previously named B1G schools. Each school envies our position. They would not tolerate this body of work over 15 years.

This is precisely why Fitz operates with no accountability and exploits the administration during a good year. We somehow "owe" him in a good year yet let it slide during bad ones. Contrary to what "brainwashed" fans think; the NU job is coveted and we CAN attract top notch coaches. Fitz is NOT un-replaceable.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Name the last NU football coach anywhere near 54-54. Please?

Since no other NU coach has won 54 games in total, that would be impossible. Ryanfield124 is right in the first part of his post - that's the job, it didn't hinder B1GWx2 nor any of the other successful years, he's long tenured and highly paid. He needs to do better. TCU parting ways with Patterson is an example of how expectations change. Even Dark Ages people like myself expect us to not suck 2 out of 3 years. It's not acceptable.

The 54-54 to me is mostly irrelevant, although, going forward, most of us expect more 6-3 and less 3-6.

 

[DaCat]

I think many fans fall in the trap of "you don't know what you got until you don't have it anymore." Fitz is a classic case. He's not perfect, but he has done a great job at NU overall. Not many can do the job he has done, NU is not an easy place to build a sustainable winning program. Just look at blue blood programs like Texas and USC that have struggled for years because they haven't got the right coach. I've learned that many things in life go in cycles, especially college football programs. Clemson isn't even ranked this season, does that suddenly make Dabo a bad coach? NU is in a down cycle this year, clearly, and it's hard for diehard fans like me to accept, but I don't think Fitz deserves all of the criticism he's getting -- some of it, yes. Oh... fire O'Neil now.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

I think many fans fall in the trap of "you don't know what you got until you don't have it anymore." Fitz is a classic case. He's not perfect, but he has done a great job at NU overall. Not many can do the job he has done, NU is not an easy place to build a sustainable winning program. Just look at blue blood programs like Texas and USC that have struggled for years because they haven't got the right coach. I've learned that many things in life go in cycles, especially college football programs. Clemson isn't even ranked this season, does that suddenly make Dabo a bad coach? NU is in a down cycle this year, clearly, and it's hard for diehard fans like me to accept, but I don't think Fitz deserves all of the criticism he's getting -- some of it, yes. Oh... fire O'Neil now.

or - to paraphrase Bilbo Baggins: 'I know that FITZ can be obstinate and pigheaded and difficult. He's suspicious and secretive, with the *worst* manners you can possibly imagine. But he is also brave and kind, and loyal to a fault. I've grown very fond of him, and I would save him if I can.'

 

[Eurocat]

OMG that is the lowest denominator argument. With the facilities, market, stadium on the way, talent within 100 miles of campus, funding, coaching payscale, & education available... You accept .500? Wow. Let me send you my resume and let me work for your company.

With NUs resources here is where .500 is unacceptable... Nebraska, Minnesota, Purdue, Wisconsin, Indiana, Maryland, Rutgers, MSU. We have better resources than the previously named B1G schools. Each school envies our position. They would not tolerate this body of work over 15 years.

This is precisely why Fitz operates with no accountability and exploits the administration during a good year. We somehow "owe" him in a good year yet let it slide during bad ones. Contrary to what "brainwashed" fans think; the NU job is coveted and we CAN attract top notch coaches. Fitz is NOT un-replaceable.

I doubt we have better facilities than Nebraska or Wisconsin.

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

I doubt we have better facilities than Nebraska or Wisconsin.

Incorrect.

 

[Gladeskat]

OMG that is the lowest denominator argument. With the facilities, market, stadium on the way, talent within 100 miles of campus, funding, coaching payscale, & education available... You accept .500? Wow. Let me send you my resume and let me work for your company.

Don't bother. He doesn't want to drop down to .300.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Giving this a bump - second hand info from Lincoln Park Wildcat on OTE:

" I saw on TV that Pat Fitzgerald said that this was the youngest squad he has had in 10 years and that he has not done this with coaching in quite some time with these young kids".

Fitz is a liar. I said the same thing on OTE. These are not young players. He is FOS. 2 deep full of underperforming upperclassmen and grads. Returning guys not inexperienced. Liar.

 

[Jaguar 88]

Name the last NU football coach anywhere near 54-54. Please?

Fitz has been here twice as long as the average NU coach, actually a bit over twice as long. Barnett gave you back to back titles in half the time. Then again Barnett got his feet wet before coming to NU, while Fitz was "inbred" and didn't have an opportunity to prove himself before becoming HC.

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

Fitz has been here twice as long as the average NU coach, actually a bit over twice as long. Barnett gave you back to back titles in half the time. Then again Barnett got his feet wet before coming to NU, while Fitz was "inbred" and didn't have an opportunity to prove himself before becoming HC.

Very difficult to compare the period before conference title games to the period after.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Giving this a bump - second hand info from Lincoln Park Wildcat on OTE:

" I saw on TV that Pat Fitzgerald said that this was the youngest squad he has had in 10 years and that he has not done this with coaching in quite some time with these young kids".

Fitz is a liar. I said the same thing on OTE. These are not young players. He is FOS. 2 deep full of underperforming upperclassmen and grads. Returning guys not inexperienced. Liar.

If the media cared and showed up, they might question it. PF could walk in naked and nobody would even notice - it’s an empty room. I can’t wait for him to start attacking the fans for the lack of any attendance. That will make me giggle.

 

[Frabjous_rivals]

Eh, could be worse, like Texas, with their delusions. Proof positive that having lotsa money doesn’t make one smarter…

 

[Hungry Jack]

This thread sounds like the Anger phase.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

If the media cared and showed up, they might question it. PF could walk in naked and nobody would even notice - it’s an empty room. I can’t wait for him to start attacking the fans for the lack of any attendance. That will make me giggle.

That reminds me of the old joke where a new coach came in and there were 5 envelopes in his drawer from the previous coach. First one said "open now". Previous coach said that if you continue to struggle, open envelope #2 at the end of year 1, then envelope 3 at the end of year 2, and so on.

They continue losing, and at the end of season 1, he opens envelope 2, it says "blame me". So he goes to the media and says the previous coach left him a grease fire and he's doing all he can to put it out. At the end of year two, they are still losing, so he opens the next envelope and it says "blame the administration". So he goes on a tirade about how he can't get the recruits he needs because of bad facilities, admissions policies, lack of support, etc. After his third year, they are losing and he opens the next envelope and it says "blame the fans/boosters", so he gets all sanctimonious and says that they would do better if only they had the fans/boosters behind them. Losing continues, so he opens the last letter and it says "prepare 5 letters"

 

[Rebel_]

Old, but a very good one!!!

 

[TheC]

Giving this a bump - second hand info from Lincoln Park Wildcat on OTE:

" I saw on TV that Pat Fitzgerald said that this was the youngest squad he has had in 10 years and that he has not done this with coaching in quite some time with these young kids".

Fitz is a liar. I said the same thing on OTE. These are not young players. He is FOS. 2 deep full of underperforming upperclassmen and grads. Returning guys not inexperienced. Liar.

Maybe.... just maybe.... and I don't know, but just trying to find some explanation... when he says this is his youngest squad in 10 years, maybe he's referring to the team as a whole. Maybe he has a bunch of leftover guys who are starting, but the depth behind them is incredibly young. Also, to be clear, I'm assuming "young" means "not ready to be on the field". Not sure why the team isn't basically the same age every year as you bring in roughly the same number of recruits each year. I'm guessing he means he doesn't have many older guys who are good enough and the younger guys are just far from ready and need a ton more coaching.

That I would believe.

 

[Ryanfield124]

Another point of contention:
1. There isn't a player on this team that PF didn't call or sit in their living room and ask to come here.
2. Good or bad the people in this program are here at his discretion. Coaches, coordinators, players. All the head coach.
3. The problem is the head of the snake. If he can't make the pieces he has assembled fit; then its on him.

 

[peatymeanis]

Another point of contention:
1. There isn't a player on this team that PF didn't call or sit in their living room and ask to come here.
2. Good or bad the people in this program are here at his discretion. Coaches, coordinators, players. All the head coach.
3. The problem is the head of the snake. If he can't make the pieces he has assembled fit; then its on him.

Fitz will be the first person to admit it’s on him. Except that statement is meaningless because everyone knows he can’t be fired and he refuses to hold players or his assistant coaches accountable. So he just parrots that phrase and nothing happens.

 

[CatManTrue]

That reminds me of the old joke where a new coach came in and there were 5 envelopes in his drawer from the previous coach. First one said "open now". Previous coach said that if you continue to struggle, open envelope #2 at the end of year 1, then envelope 3 at the end of year 2, and so on.

They continue losing, and at the end of season 1, he opens envelope 2, it says "blame me". So he goes to the media and says the previous coach left him a grease fire and he's doing all he can to put it out. At the end of year two, they are still losing, so he opens the next envelope and it says "blame the administration". So he goes on a tirade about how he can't get the recruits he needs because of bad facilities, admissions policies, lack of support, etc. After his third year, they are losing and he opens the next envelope and it says "blame the fans/boosters", so he gets all sanctimonious and says that they would do better if only they had the fans/boosters behind them. Losing continues, so he opens the last letter and it says "prepare 5 letters"

Funny. But “Traffic” did it more succinctly and, thus, better:

 

[Jaguar 88]

Very difficult to compare the period before conference title games to the period after.

Not at all. The best coaches can turn a program around in 3-5 seasons and can have consistent success. Also your point is moot. Who set up Barnett up for success? Barnett and Walker set the table for Fitz. Also the BIG was a lot stronger in the 90's than now. After 16 seasons only the truly deluded can think of Fitz in the same light as an Alvarez, Fry, etc. I give credit for 2015-2018, but the guy can't bring in a consistent winner year to year now without taking a dump. First to worst is whack, especially doing it back to back. It is not that much different from the pre 2011 and 2011+ eras. You still have to WIN!!!! You have to win your division to get in the title game, where before you just had to be tops in the conference. You played everyone in the conference in the good ole days. NU had to play both U of M and OSU, then PSU. Thank God for that doesn't happen anymore!!! Quit thinking Fitz is a demigod, he isn't. He is a good coach, just not at the top of the class.

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

Not at all. The best coaches can turn a program around in 3-5 seasons and can have consistent success. Also your point is moot. Who set up Barnett up for success? Barnett and Walker set the table for Fitz. Also the BIG was a lot stronger in the 90's than now. After 16 seasons only the truly deluded can think of Fitz in the same light as an Alvarez, Fry, etc. I give credit for 2015-2018, but the guy can't bring in a consistent winner year to year now without taking a dump. First to worst is whack, especially doing it back to back. It is not that much different from the pre 2011 and 2011+ eras. You still have to WIN!!!! You have to win your division to get in the title game, where before you just had to be tops in the conference. You played everyone in the conference in the good ole days. NU had to play both U of M and OSU, then PSU. Thank God for that doesn't happen anymore!!! Quit thinking Fitz is a demigod, he isn't. He is a good coach, just not at the top of the class.

My point is that it is completely different to say “Barnett won two conference titles” in 1995 and 1996 than it is now. Or even to say “Walker won a conference title” in 2000. The only outright title was in 1995 (when we didn’t play OSU, by the way) since 1996 was shared with Ohio State (when we also didn’t play Ohio State and lost to Penn State) and 2000 was shared with both Michigan and Purdue (when we also didn’t play Ohio State and lost to Purdue).

That’s also overlooking the fact that Barnett took NU football from the top of the mountain to the bottom, going 3-9(0-8) in 1998 before bailing after the first year of a 12-year contract. The whole reason Randy Walker and Kevin Wilson pioneered the spread is because the personnel he inherited from Barnett weren’t good enough to run the traditional schemes typically seen in the late 90s/early 2000s.

Fitz may not be a demigod, but he’s uniquely suited for Northwestern and I challenge you to find a coach that would (1) be a definite upgrade and (2) would actually take the job.

 

[Jaguar 88]

I understand where you are coming from, but Barnett did what he did in less than half the time Fitz did. Expansion just made the divisional system necessary. You want to equate division titles to conference titles fair enough, Barnett still worked his magic in half the time, plus he ended the Dark Ages!!!! If Fitz wants to be a Fry, Alvarez, etc, he is going to have to get his head out of his *** and do what it takes to win. With a $200+ million practice facility that rivals the Woody Hayes facility in Columbus, and around $250 million+ going to stadium renovations, there will be increased expectations in Evanston by those who donated all that $$$$. Mr. Fitzgerald needs to get real. It seems to me at times that maybe he has created a "Club Med" atmosphere. He never hires top assistant talent, etc.

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

I understand where you are coming from, but Barnett did what he did in less than half the time Fitz did. Expansion just made the divisional system necessary. You want to equate division titles to conference titles fair enough, Barnett still worked his magic in half the time, plus he ended the Dark Ages!!!! If Fitz wants to be a Fry, Alvarez, etc, he is going to have to get his head out of his *** and do what it takes to win. With a $200+ million practice facility that rivals the Woody Hayes facility in Columbus, and around $250 million+ going to stadium renovations, there will be increased expectations in Evanston by those who donated all that $$$$. Mr. Fitzgerald needs to get real. It seems to me at times that maybe he has created a "Club Med" atmosphere. He never hires top assistant talent, etc.

I’m not really disagreeing with you and have called for O’Neil to be fired as well as Fitz to make some fundamental changes in the program. I’ve long been on board with his “slow build” process that allows us to compete year-in and year-out, but that’s all seemingly came crashing down this year.

Pat Ryan is and always will be a Pat Fitzgerald supporter, but is quite hands-off for a guy who has literally invested so much in NU football. He’s not going to be marching into Fitz’s office demanding changes anytime soon and is, if we are being honest, probably the most important program stakeholder at the moment.

 

[NUChicago]

I’m not really disagreeing with you and have called for O’Neil to be fired as well as Fitz to make some fundamental changes in the program. I’ve long been on board with his “slow build” process that allows us to compete year-in and year-out, but that’s all seemingly came crashing down this year.

Pat Ryan is and always will be a Pat Fitzgerald supporter, but is quite hands-off for a guy who has literally invested so much in NU football. He’s not going to be marching into Fitz’s office demanding changes anytime soon and is, if we are being honest, probably the most important program stakeholder at the moment.

If you placed odds on if JON is retained, what would you say?

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

If you placed odds on if JON is retained, what would you say?

Much higher than I would prefer. I don’t think it is in Fitz’s DNA to fire someone after a single season.

 

[NUChicago]

Much higher than I would prefer. I don’t think it is in Fitz’s DNA to fire someone after a single season.

Damn, didn’t want to read that but I feel you are correct.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Much higher than I would prefer. I don’t think it is in Fitz’s DNA to fire someone after a single season.

Agreed, I think he will be back 100% next year.