Where is Bill Carmody?
- Thread starter Mr Wickerpark
- Start date
Lets predict how long this thread will go once people get triggered! 80+ posts? BC was an excellent teacher of the game and schematic coach with limited talent. CC is a good recruiter, but so far pretty mediocre scheming with average talent relative to the opposition. This makes perfect sense since Carmody learned at Princeton and CC learned at Duke, who almost always had a talent advantage.
CC is a "good recruiter" compared to BC. But is he a good recruiter compared to other B1G coaches? Right now I'd have to say the jury is out. Let's see how he does with the next couple of classes with all the new facilities in place. CC has had a mixed bag in his tenure:
Hits
Law
BMac
Lindsey
Skelly
Pardon
Gaines
Kopp
Young
Buie
Misses
Vassar
Brown
Falzon
Ash
Benson
Rap
Greer
I put guys who transfer in the Misses category, because NU is and probably always will be a developmental program, where kids need the full 4 years to reach their potential. And his inability to keep his classes together apart from his initial class leaves them short handed when the inevitable injuries occur.
Enough said. Just posting to add 1 more message to the never ending Carmody talk.
I am not ready to
I am not ready to put Greer in the miss group. Remember he was a late signing to help recover from the Lathon fiasco. And last night he played a pretty good D and played within himself. I would also suggest that injuries impacted Falzon and Rap. In general, I think you would find a number of "misses" on most teams. Just we are generally thinner than most so they tend to affect us more
Injuries explain misses, but they do not make them less of a miss.
We got nothing out of Rap. We got games out of Falzon. Not seasons. They're still misses that could have been.
Every program has misses. Unavoidable. It's just some have more than others. And, in our case, our misses spanned years where basically we only got one good player: Gaines. And that's why we are where we are. We could not stay old.
We got nothing out of Rap. We got games out of Falzon. Not seasons. They're still misses that could have been.
Every program has misses. Unavoidable. It's just some have more than others. And, in our case, our misses spanned years where basically we only got one good player: Gaines. And that's why we are where we are. We could not stay old.
CCC recruits better players that any former NU Coach I can think of. Those better players still put NU in the bottom quarter of talent in the B1G. Let that sink in for awhile. Admissions CERTAINLY play a part in who NU can recruit compared to Illinois, Minnesota and anyone else in the B1G.
Even if you say injures count as misses you can’t apply that blame to CC. Unless you believe there is a time machine which enables coaches to know who will have major injuries in the future
Did you purposely leave Nance off the list? You don't have them as a hit or a miss.
Collins has proven that he can't have a winning season without BC recruits. In fact, we don't go dancing without BC recruits. If BC had this arena, no doubt he would have had better recruiting.
Collins problem is that he can't figure out why his scheme isn't working. Dude, doesn't realize that Duke had far superior talent and such schemes worked. Carmody knew the difference.
BC + 1
CC -1
Even if you say injures count as misses you can’t apply that blame to CC. Unless you believe there is a time machine which enables coaches to know who will have major injuries in the future
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Sure. But you can apply blame to the non injured ones. And, overall, you should still have a decent group to work with. Either that or CC is the unluckiest man alive. Who manages to have his only decent recruits get injured and still miss for years on everyone but Gaines.
And yet, as critical as I am of his in game and before game competence, I still think he might be a good fit for us and the best we can get. 21-22 is my deadline. After that I am firmly on the getting another coach camp.
You missed the subtlety of his argument......Collins has had 2 winning seasons (out of 7) and both of those had Carmody recruits on the team.
So he is correct, although once again it proves the old adage "correlation does not equal causation".....
Geez, anyone that doesn’t agree w you is a troll. Boy, I must keep you up at night. Love me over on rant and hate me here.
but, like gcg, maybe you should whine to Lou, beg FL, petition yahoo to exercise your will. I know they truly enjoy those messages. It’s their favorite part of the job. Good luck.
Sure. But you can apply blame to the non injured ones. And, overall, you should still have a decent group to work with. Either that or CC is the unluckiest man alive. Who manages to have his only decent recruits get injured and still miss for years on everyone but Gaines.
And yet, as critical as I am of his in game and before game competence, I still think he might be a good fit for us and the best we can get. 21-22 is my deadline. After that I am firmly on the getting another coach camp.[/QUOTE]
A wise CCC finds a strong X&O and development set of coaches. Starts a tree, not afraid to lose assistants with success. (PF too) An insecure individual unable to recognize, accept and overcome their weaknesses does not find success.
Didn’t you say you’d like to see NU drop the b-ball program entirely? Why post here then?
No doubt. If he is not good with X&O, he should be a good enough leader to recognize it and get help.
I have said that if they (the admin) don’t want to commit and host a B1G program then they should not have one. Break it up, demote to Ivy, NAIA, whatever.
But if they are going to run a P5, B1G MBB, then act accordingly in a way that brings pride to those NU colors running across the screen.
Producing a laughingstock quality program is embarrassing and undercuts esteem of the university.
So despite my purple parchment, I won’t blindly back slap all involved for producing such a crappy product. If I wanted to support a team for graduation rates, I’d watch NU golf or lax, and sadly, they produce better teams.
So like any revenue sport I root for - Bears, Sox, Blackhawks, bulls - and when they crap the bed, I’m going to say it loudly. I’m not going to jump in and say, nice, at least it’s a good consistency.
I'm an alum and not remotely embarrassed nor do I consider the university to have lost esteem in the eyes of anyone I know because the basketball program is not winning a lot. What do you think the university can/should do to further support the program?
What are there standards, how much should they loosen them? These seem like vague sentiments without any idea how admissions actually evaluates recruits.
We know the Freeman situation. Reduce the standard on 1-2 a year won’t kill NU’s glorious academic rating. It hasn’t hurt Duke’s prestige. In fact, I would argue letting them in has helped Duke’s academic standing. If they can’t graduate that is a different story. Admission is potentially life changing for some of these kids who would have zero chance at regular admission. Isn’t that aligned with the University mission?
If Carmody could recruit, or Collins could coach, like Turk can troll, we would not be having this conversation
Better approach w admissions, better budget for assistant coaches, shorter leash / higher expectations of results from head coach.
On that last point, having our HCs face little threat of termination allows them to become cocky, smartest guy in the room. Why not? Who cares?
Make their job dependent on their results and perhaps we will see shorter leashes and better assistant coaches in both sports.
How about trust a coach until he blows it - student fails out or something worse.
Athletics are often the best way to raise a university’s public profile. Michigan is a good school independent of their athletic programs, but the reason the university has a massive global brand is because of the popularity of their athletics. Butler University applicants went up 5x in the years following their consecutive national title appearances. Athletic success can have a positive impact on an academic institution’s visibility and perception. It surprises me how stubborn and arrogant university administrators can be.
(Playing devil’s advocate, if you go too far in placing athletics above all else, you run the risk of spoiling your reputation. Baylor is the extreme example...)
what would people think of his performance to date if his last name wasn't Nance?