Where it counts - Recruiting vs common opponents

[point1zerorock]

Like me, I think most UK fans are thrilled with Mark Stoops and Co's recruiting efforts. One of the major complaints from detractors however is that we're still near the bottom of the SEC. Fact of the matter is - it doesn't matter where we are compared to Auburn, LSU, TATM and Arkansas. It doesn't matter much where we are compared to Alabama and Ole Miss as we're only going to play each one time the next two years.

Compared to our 8 annual opponents, the only that really matter (the six SEC East teams plus MS St and UofL), we are right in the thick of things. Only GA, UT and FL are a tier above us. We have been competing well or are ahead of everyone else we play annually during the 4 years of recruiting that define the Stoops era.

According to Rivals rankings we are in a virtual tie this year for 4th (5th if you're really splitting hairs - 1724 points vs 1702 behind SC) among teams on our calendar. We're also in a virtual tie for 4th with SC over the 4 years of the Stoops era. See breakdown below. Thoughts?

I think we have a lot to look forward to with competitive recruiting classes and Stoops gaining head coaching experience as well as top assistants to join him and lastly the admin's commitment to the program. Also helping is SC and MO's programs in transition.

Four Year average: (team/avg. annual opponent rank/avg national rank/avg annual points)

GA: 1/8/2418
UT: 2/11/2317
FL: 3/12/2311
SC: 4/19/1940
UK: 5/28/1718 (88% of SC's total score)
MSt; 6/29/1710
MO: 7/39/1492
UL: 8/40/1475
Van: 9/43/1425

 

[JW PRPcoach]

Last season - the mismatch went away from on the field to on the sidelines.
This shows that there are only a few games a season, at the most, where we should be out-maned.
Hopefully, the staff shake-up will minimize the sideline gap, and our record will reflect this change

 

[bthaunert]

I post something similar all the time when talking about our recruiting. People always say, "But we have 9 teams ahead of us, we're never going to be able to compete". 5 of those teams, we don't play, so who cares if they are ranked ahead of us. Based on historical recruiting rankings, we will always have 4 teams (when talking recruiting rankings) that will have better players on the field:

UGA
Florida
Tennessee
SEC West rotating opponent (In the years we play Arkansas, we will field a similar team)

After those 4 teams, we will have 2 that we field similar teams:

South Carolina
Mississippi State

We then have 6 teams we will always field better teams than (again, strictly speaking about recruiting rankings):

Missouri
Vanderbilt
Louisville
OOC
OOC
OOC

Every year, we will step on the playing field with similar or better talent that 8 of our opponents. In terms of Kentucky football, that's a good place to start. The big question is, can our coaches put us in the position to win those games.

 

[greginky1957]

Interesting way of looking at things

 

[point1zerorock]

Agreed. Here's to hoping Stoops learned a lot last year and doesn't repeat mistakes. I think he surrounding himself with better assistants and that should definitely help also.

Last season - the mismatch went away from on the field to on the sidelines.
This shows that there are only a few games a season, at the most, where we should be out-maned.
Hopefully, the staff shake-up will minimize the sideline gap, and our record will reflect this change

 

[jauk11]

Interesting slant on things, thanks for the numbers. As well as how the coaching staff improves maybe an even bigger factor could be the staff's ability to evaluate underrated talent, and I think we have a big plus there. If Brooks and staff hadn't been very good there he might have never won an SEC game, Tre in the game yesterday a good example.

 

[Rockford]

We are getting closer. Close enough to hope for a upset. Still, terribly difficult to get to six next year.

 

[point1zerorock]

Yes we've closed the gap. Hoping we can begin pulling mild upsets at home.

 

[FltDoc]

I post something similar all the time when talking about our recruiting. People always say, "But we have 9 teams ahead of us, we're never going to be able to compete". 5 of those teams, we don't play, so who cares if they are ranked ahead of us. Based on historical recruiting rankings, we will always have 4 teams (when talking recruiting rankings) that will have better players on the field:

UGA
Florida
Tennessee
SEC West rotating opponent (In the years we play Arkansas, we will field a similar team)

After those 4 teams, we will have 2 that we field similar teams:

South Carolina
Mississippi State

We then have 6 teams we will always field better teams than (again, strictly speaking about recruiting rankings):

Missouri
Vanderbilt
Louisville
OOC
OOC
OOC

Every year, we will step on the playing field with similar or better talent that 8 of our opponents. In terms of Kentucky football, that's a good place to start. The big question is, can our coaches put us in the position to win those games.

Hope springs eternal...

And like the term "Side-Line Gap"-- simple; yet, very descriptive....

Go CATS!

 

[Deeeefense]

Like me, I think most UK fans are thrilled with Mark Stoops and Co's recruiting efforts. One of the major complaints from detractors however is that we're still near the bottom of the SEC. Fact of the matter is - it doesn't matter where we are compared to Auburn, LSU, TATM and Arkansas. It doesn't matter much where we are compared to Alabama and Ole Miss as we're only going to play each one time the next two years.

Compared to our 8 annual opponents, the only that really matter (the six SEC East teams plus MS St and UofL), we are right in the thick of things. Only GA, UT and FL are a tier above us. We have been competing well or are ahead of everyone else we play annually during the 4 years of recruiting that define the Stoops era.

According to Rivals rankings we are in a virtual tie this year for 4th (5th if you're really splitting hairs - 1724 points vs 1702 behind SC) among teams on our calendar. We're also in a virtual tie for 4th with SC over the 4 years of the Stoops era. See breakdown below. Thoughts?

I think we have a lot to look forward to with competitive recruiting classes and Stoops gaining head coaching experience as well as top assistants to join him and lastly the admin's commitment to the program. Also helping is SC and MO's programs in transition.

Four Year average: (team/avg. annual opponent rank/avg national rank/avg annual points)

GA: 1/8/2418
UT: 2/11/2317
FL: 3/12/2311
SC: 4/19/1940
UK: 5/28/1718 (88% of SC's total score)
MSt; 6/29/1710
MO: 7/39/1492
UL: 8/40/1475
Van: 9/43/1425

Nice post and well research. If you have even more time on your hands go back and look at the attrition from those classes regarding USCe and Kentucky. I think you will find that we are somewhat ahead of them based on whose still on the roster. Florida's had a ton of attrition also, so while they would still be ahead of us, I have a hunch the margin would be somewhat closer.

As I've said on here many times, who you get is just half the story, who you keep is the other half.

 

[vhcat70]

Yes we've closed the gap. Hoping we can begin pulling mild upsets at home.

Let's first win the games we have the talent to win. That didn't happen at least twice last year.

 

[K_TIME]

Interesting way of looking at things

The right way to look at things IMO...and UK fans need to remember this when some start back with the "We have no talent so we can't really judge the coaches based upon it".

It's a shame UK has lost this many (and pounded by UL more often than not) to UL.

 

[Littlefeller_rivals66952]

Good research and good post. I like looking at this the way you've presented it. I hadn't thought of it in those terms but a very valid point.

 

[gobigblue812_rivals29381]

I posted something similar to this in another thread back on Signing day. I don't know why folks get worked up about the entire SEC rankings. What difference does it make how we recruit against somebody if we don't play them? We play divisions in FB, therefore our concern in SEC play is the East and MSU. I guess you can include ul since we play them yearly as well.

 

[andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK]

Last season - the mismatch went away from on the field to on the sidelines.
This shows that there are only a few games a season, at the most, where we should be out-maned.
Hopefully, the staff shake-up will minimize the sideline gap, and our record will reflect this change

Couldnt agree more, the coaching was atrocious at best last season in all phases. We may have more talent than a lot more teams now. But pretty much every team we face in the SEC is going to coach circles around us. Huge gap between us and the rest of the SEC when it comes to coaching ability. Huge gap.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

Couldnt agree more, the coaching was atrocious at best last season in all phases. We may have more talent than a lot more teams now. But pretty much every team we face in the SEC is going to coach circles around us. Huge gap between us and the rest of the SEC when it comes to coaching ability. Huge gap.

Yeah the gap is so huge that Alabama, USC, LSU, and UGA wanted to or have poached our assistants. If the gap was as huge as you think it is we wouldn't have our SEC brethren so interested in them. Eliot, Buh, Brumbaugh, Marrow, and Gran have all had interest for positions that would be an upgrade to their current one. Stoops and Barnhart have done an excellent job keeping the staff together

 

[andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK]

Yeah the gap is so huge that Alabama, USC, LSU, and UGA wanted to have poached our assistants. If the gap was as huge as you think it is we wouldn't have our SEC brethren so interested in them. Eliot, Buh, Brumbaugh, Marrow, and Gran have all had interest for positions that would be an upgrade to their current one. Stoops and Barnhart have done an excellent job keeping the staff together

No matter what you believe, we definitely led the SEC in boneheaded coaching decisions this past season. So until they prove they can overcome shooting themselves in the foot then I really don't understand your point.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

No matter what you believe, we definitely led the SEC in boneheaded coaching decisions this past season. So until they prove they can overcome shooting themselves in the foot then I really don't understand your point.

When a decision is made and the players don't execute then it will always look like a boneheaded decision. If they had executed they'd be viewed as brilliant. Stoops took some unnecessary risks at times in fourth down situations but our offense was so putrid he was willing to take a chance to get something going. It's hard to blame him for some of the risks he took. If you don't understand my point it's that if our coaches are so terrible why do so many programs with a HUGE coaching gap want them? They must be better or as good as what they had. Dawson and Mainord were the weak links in our staff and Stoops corrected it

 

[andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK]

When a decision is made and the players don't execute then it will always look like a boneheaded decision. If they had executed they'd be viewed as brilliant. Stoops took some unnecessary risks at times in fourth down situations but our offense was so putrid he was willing to take a chance to get something going. It's hard to blame him for some of the risks he took. If you don't understand my point it's that if our coaches are so terrible why do so many programs with a HUGE coaching gap want them? They must be better or as good as what they had

lol. You're using the most classic stoops excuse of all time. "Had the play worked everyone would be calling me a genius". Can't count the number of times stoops said that after being questioned about very questionable coaching decisions. I really don't care what you say. Running the ball out of shotgun from the one 3 straight plays is a horrible coaching decision regardless of execution. During the same game, he called a timeout to save 5 yards on a punt, then didn't call a timeout when we're kicking a field goal, and we ended up missing the field goal by a couple inches. You can blame it all on the players and execution if you want. Any reasonable fan that watched our games last season knows we led the SEC in boneheaded coaching decisions and many times coaches put the players in bad positions. Even the most biased of fans will admit that.

Stoops has not proven to be the good HC you claim him to be yet. He may end up doing so, but in no way has he proven to be even a halfway competent HC yet. I have a question for you, how many in game adjustments did you see with your own eyes this season? Because I never once saw halftime adjustments or anything of that nature the entire season, and I know I'm not the only one who saw a team that never made any in game adjustments. I guess blame that on execution too? Also last season we had a much easier schedule than the year before? So why did we regress from the season before to last season? We were supposed to make huge strides and be a winning team this past season according to stoops in the preseason, yet we regressed as a team and finished 5-7. He's 5-13 in his last 18 games with one win over a winning team (a 6-6 FCS EKU team). And zero wins over division one programs with winning records. So in his last 18 games stoops has zero quality wins. So please just don't act like he's done anything special yet until he wins something. What else am I missing here?

 

[K_TIME]

Yeah the gap is so huge that Alabama, USC, LSU, and UGA wanted to or have poached our assistants. If the gap was as huge as you think it is we wouldn't have our SEC brethren so interested in them. Eliot, Buh, Brumbaugh, Marrow, and Gran have all had interest for positions that would be an upgrade to their current one. Stoops and Barnhart have done an excellent job keeping the staff together

Outside of Ansley and Marrow (for pure recruiting purposes), you can't name 1 SEC school that wants Elliott, Buh, Dawson, Scott, Mainord, Brumbaugh or Schlarman. And maybe (maybe) outside of Vandy and who knows about Mizzou, who would trade off their HC for Stoops?

Stoops needs to get the coaching/scheme issues fixed going forward. We've seen plenty of his "first time coaching mistakes". He gets so owned by Dan Mullen every year it isn't even close. Stoops needs to clean up the coaching issues pronto.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

lol. You're using the most classic stoops excuse of all time. "Had the play worked everyone would be calling me a genius". Can't count the number of times stoops said that after being questioned about very questionable coaching decisions. I really don't care what you say. Running the ball out of shotgun from the one 3 straight plays is a horrible coaching decision regardless of execution. During the same game, he called a timeout to save 5 yards on a punt, then didn't call a timeout when we're kicking a field goal, and we ended up missing the field goal by a couple inches. You can blame it all on the players and execution if you want. Any reasonable fan that watched our games last season knows we led the SEC in boneheaded coaching decisions and many times coaches put the players in bad positions. Even the most biased of fans will admit that.

Stoops has not proven to be the good HC you claim him to be yet. He may end up doing so, but in no way has he proven to be even a halfway competent HC yet. I have a question for you, how many in game adjustments did you see with your own eyes this season? Because I never once saw halftime adjustments or anything of that nature the entire season, and I know I'm not the only one who saw a team that never made any in game adjustments. I guess blame that on execution too? Also last season we had a much easier schedule than the year before? So why did we regress from the season before to last season? We were supposed to make huge strides and be a winning team this past season according to stoops in the preseason, yet we regressed as a team and finished 5-7. He's 5-13 in his last 18 games with one win over a winning team (a 6-6 FCS EKU team). And zero wins over division one programs with winning records. So in his last 18 games stoops has zero quality wins. So please just don't act like he's done anything special yet until he wins something. What else am I missing here?

You blame Stoops for the offensive play calling? Stoops hasn't shown to be a halfway competent HC? He's hired a staff and put into place a recruiting plan that's resulted in the four best recruiting classes in school history. Helped secure the funding and support to renovate CWS and build a $45 million practice facility. He brought our S&C program into the 21st century and hired dietician (something we've never had). He's made great staff hires that have gone on to bigger jobs or have been sought out for better jobs. The bad hires he did make (Naivar, Dawson) were both let go after 1 season. There has been very little attrition since he's been here. The players have done an excellent job staying in good academic standing. Stoops is hiring quality control assistants for offense, defense, and special teams like big time programs have always had. There is a buy-in from everyone starting with the players and their families, to recruits, to the assistant coaches, to boosters, on up to the athletic administration.

There has never been a time in my life that UK has operated so much like an SEC football program is supposed operate. Stoops and Barnhart deserve the credit for that. Now you can throw around all the hyperbole you want saying Stoops never does this, he always does that, he can't do this but at the end of the day your all or nothing posts don't mean squat. You can blame Stoops for the offensive playcalling (which is beyond ridiculous) and blame him for his record after inheriting a team stacked with recruiting classes that ranked in the 60's and 70's but all you're really proving is how little you understand about the scope of being a HC and what it takes to take a doormat and build it into a contender in the SEC. To completely ignore all that Stiops has done and say that he hasn't "proven to be halfway competent" voids you of all credibility. I'm done with this convo I only talk sports with people that know what they're talking about. I won't waste anymore of my time feeding a troll

 

[TBCat]

I post something similar all the time when talking about our recruiting. People always say, "But we have 9 teams ahead of us, we're never going to be able to compete". 5 of those teams, we don't play, so who cares if they are ranked ahead of us. Based on historical recruiting rankings, we will always have 4 teams (when talking recruiting rankings) that will have better players on the field:

UGA
Florida
Tennessee
SEC West rotating opponent (In the years we play Arkansas, we will field a similar team)

After those 4 teams, we will have 2 that we field similar teams:

South Carolina
Mississippi State

We then have 6 teams we will always field better teams than (again, strictly speaking about recruiting rankings):

Missouri
Vanderbilt
Louisville
OOC
OOC
OOC

Every year, we will step on the playing field with similar or better talent that 8 of our opponents. In terms of Kentucky football, that's a good place to start. The big question is, can our coaches put us in the position to win those games.

Excellent post. Agree with this totally. Our coaches haven't been fired for failing to compete with Alabama they have been fired for not consistently beating Vandy, UL and South Carolina. Which they should. Every year that I have watched UK football there are at least 5 teams that we should be better than and at least 3 more than we should be close to even with. Coaches that do well here win those games. Coaches that have been fired do very poorly in those games. Right now Stoops is very clearly in the doing poorly category.

On you list we should have at least as much if not more talent than Vandy, UL and Missouri. And I agree that we do have more talent. Problem is to this point Stoops has just 2 career wins and 7 losses against those teams. That's as bad as it gets. I don't care how you spin it there is no formula for success here if you can't beat the teams at the bottom of that list. Again we aren't defining success at this point by beating Bama. We are defining it by consistently beating Vandy, Missouri and UL. So far that's been a total failure.

 

[WildcatofNati]

Excellent post. Agree with this totally. Our coaches haven't been fired for failing to compete with Alabama they have been fired for not consistently beating Vandy, UL and South Carolina. Which they should. Every year that I have watched UK football there are at least 5 teams that we should be better than and at least 3 more than we should be close to even with. Coaches that do well here win those games. Coaches that have been fired do very poorly in those games. Right now Stoops is very clearly in the doing poorly category.

On you list we should have at least as much if not more talent than Vandy, UL and Missouri. And I agree that we do have more talent. Problem is to this point Stoops has just 2 career wins and 7 losses against those teams. That's as bad as it gets. I don't care how you spin it there is no formula for success here if you can't beat the teams at the bottom of that list. Again we aren't defining success at this point by beating Bama. We are defining it by consistently beating Vandy, Missouri and UL. So far that's been a total failure.

In 2013, we didn't have talent as good as UofL, Vandy, or Missouri, and went 0-3 against them. Our true freshmen were as good as their true freshmen. Other than that, we were outclassed by all three teams.

In 2014, we didn't have talent as good as Missouri or UofL, and went 0-2 against them. We were probably more talented than Vandy that year, and beat them.

Last year we comparable in talent to all three teams; probably we had more overall talent than Vandy. Went 1-2, which is not good. But that's the only year that we were really on a level playing field with all three teams.

 

[Chuckinden]

We have recruited better, but we haven't coached better. If the coaching doesn't improve this coming year, the results will be the same. That's not a knock against Stoops....it's just a fact.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

Outside of Ansley and Marrow (for pure recruiting purposes), you can't name 1 SEC school that wants Elliott, Buh, Dawson, Scott, Mainord, Brumbaugh or Schlarman. And maybe (maybe) outside of Vandy and who knows about Mizzou, who would trade off their HC for Stoops?

Stoops needs to get the coaching/scheme issues fixed going forward. We've seen plenty of his "first time coaching mistakes". He gets so owned by Dan Mullen every year it isn't even close. Stoops needs to clean up the coaching issues pronto.

You aren't getting JR's info over here so I don't expect you to know what I'm talking about. Brumbaugh was a candidate to go to USCjr, Buh was offered a P5 DC job, Eliot has had several offers to be a DC at "big time" programs both before he was hired by Stoops and this offseason, and Scott just left to work under Larry Fedora. Gran was one of the top 2 candidates for the Southern Miss HC job a few days after he was hired by Stoops

 

[TBCat]

In 2013, we didn't have talent as good as UofL, Vandy, or Missouri, and went 0-3 against them. Our true freshmen were as good as their true freshmen. Other than that, we were outclassed by all three teams.

In 2014, we didn't have talent as good as Missouri or UofL, and went 0-2 against them. We were probably more talented than Vandy that year, and beat them.

Last year we comparable in talent to all three teams; probably we had more overall talent than Vandy. Went 1-2, which is not good. But that's the only year that we were really on a level playing field with all three teams.

I grant you all points but it also makes mine as well. Even though we had less talent the previous years the gap was not like the gap between us and Bama. It was actually quite small. Previous coaches that have been successful here have managed to pull off at least one upset per 3 year span in those games. So far we haven't. And I do think that even though we had less talent it was close enough for an upset to be had. Also this year we should have been 3-0 against those teams and yet we lost 2 of the 3. Imagine how different the Stoops era would look right now if we are just beating the teams that we should.

 

[andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK]

You blame Stoops for the offensive play calling? Stoops hasn't shown to be a halfway competent HC? He's hired a staff and put into place a recruiting plan that's resulted in the four best recruiting classes in school history. Helped secure the funding and support to renovate CWS and build a $45 million practice facility. He brought our S&C program into the 21st century and hired dietician (something we've never had). He's made great staff hires that have gone on to bigger jobs or have been sought out for better jobs. The bad hires he did make (Naivar, Dawson) were both let go after 1 season. There has been very little attrition since he's been here. The players have done an excellent job staying in good academic standing. Stoops is hiring quality control assistants for offense, defense, and special teams like big time programs have always had. There is a buy-in from everyone starting with the players and their families, to recruits, to the assistant coaches, to boosters, on up to the athletic administration.

There has never been a time in my life that UK has operated so much like an SEC football program is supposed operate. Stoops and Barnhart deserve the credit for that. Now you can throw around all the hyperbole you want saying Stoops never does this, he always does that, he can't do this but at the end of the day your all or nothing posts don't mean squat. You can blame Stoops for the offensive playcalling (which is beyond ridiculous) and blame him for his record after inheriting a team stacked with recruiting classes that ranked in the 60's and 70's but all you're really proving is how little you understand about the scope of being a HC and what it takes to take a doormat and build it into a contender in the SEC. To completely ignore all that Stiops has done and say that he hasn't "proven to be halfway competent" voids you of all credibility. I'm done with this convo I only talk sports with people that know what they're talking about. I won't waste anymore of my time feeding a troll

I don't have time to read everything you just typed. 21st century s&c? Stoops was in charge of the funding that was put in place? Will muschamp had world class talent at Florida. And he still sucked. Recruiting doesn't equal wins. Was he in charge of the offensive play calling? No, but did he know what play was called and did he have the ability to veto the call? Yes. As I said. He hasn't proven to be even a halfway competent HC. As far as in game coaching goes he's proven to be very inept. I'm not going to feed into your stoops apologist agenda anymore than I have thus far.

 

[BIGBLUEQ]

Outside of Ansley and Marrow (for pure recruiting purposes), you can't name 1 SEC school that wants Elliott, Buh, Dawson, Scott, Mainord, Brumbaugh or Schlarman. And maybe (maybe) outside of Vandy and who knows about Mizzou, who would trade off their HC for Stoops?

Stoops needs to get the coaching/scheme issues fixed going forward. We've seen plenty of his "first time coaching mistakes". He gets so owned by Dan Mullen every year it isn't even close. Stoops needs to clean up the coaching issues pronto.

Well, yes I can name at least one D-1 school who wanted and hired our assistant coaches: Dawson now OC at Southern Miss, Chad Scott now at North Carolina, so your post does not hold water.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

You aren't getting JR's info over here so I don't expect you to know what I'm talking about. Brumbaugh was a candidate to go to USCjr, Buh was offered a P5 DC job, Eliot has had several offers to be a DC at "big time" programs both before he was hired by Stoops and this offseason, and Scott just left to work under Larry Fedora. Gran was one of the top 2 candidates for the Southern Miss HC job a few days after he was hired by Stoops

I'm an HOB member can you link up where he says for a fact that Brumbaugh was offered the job? I know their was speculation a while back that he was wanted as their DC. I called that as being nonsense. Then somebody else was saying that he has a history with their new coach since he used to play at Auburn. Never saw any legit rumors even from SC side they even looked at Brumbaugh.
We have some good coaches on our staff but I don't recall Brumbaugh actually having an offer from somewhere else.
We know that Scott, Ansley, Buh, Marrow did. It hurts losing Ansley, Buh is good at what he does and has experience at P5 level schools, Marrow--- everybody knows what he brings, Scott is a decent coach and is easily replaceable by a more talented coach and we did that.
Ansley was prob the best position coach on the team.
Marrow does a good job with the TE and is a top recruiter as their is in the country.
Brumbaugh and Scharlman if they were to leave tomorrow they could be easily replaced by a better coach. One come from Troy and the other from a junior college. We got Mainord from Texas St after being let go did a P5 school try to get him on board? No he went back to Texas St.

As a P5 school we should be having a staff that is experienced in P5 football not hire a guy who isn't proven to be successful.
With those 2 guys gone Stoops stepped up and hired some experience and I like it

 

[point1zerorock]

Let's just just hope the on the job training phase of Stoops career is behind him and that he's learned from mistakes. I will be optimistic and give the benefit of the doubt that he's turned a corner until it appears at least twice (cause ALL coaches mess up occasionally) he and the staff are still in over their heads.

 

[K_TIME]

Well, yes I can name at least one D-1 school who wanted and hired our assistant coaches: Dawson now OC at Southern Miss, Chad Scott now at North Carolina, so your post does not hold water.

I said SEC not C-USA...granted Chad Scott landed at a solid ACC school.