Where would we be if we had Bill Carmody still?
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PG is a different position similar to QB in FB in that only one tends to play. Get a guy that is good enough at the position and it will hinder recruiting that position for a couple . You will continue to recruit for the position but you will likely get secondary recruits in the case of the QB and compromise type guys in the PG area.
Listen, we didn’t even get a compromise type or a real secondary recruit. Brown wasn’t a point and Vassar was not a Big Ten player.
Mike, on January 23 you said the Cats were trending upward and had a good chance of making the dance. I think based on that prognostication, my questioning the accuracy of describing Coach Collins as a rising star should merit a little more than a dismissive answer. I’ll ask it again. Assuming next year is rebuilding, and the following year is trashed by circumstances beyond his control, both of which would lead to 7 losing years out of 8, you the know relegation to a mid major for him is impossible?
Your math needs work. Collins has already had 2 winning seasons, 20-12 and 24-12 in 2015-16 and '16-17.
Just in CCCs first class were BMac, LIndsey, and Law. In the second add Pardon. That is 4 impact guys in his first two classes. Benson has not really had the opportunity to fully develop do to Pardon being in front of him and Falzon and Rap has injury issues. Gaines looks like another impact player and we have to see with guys in this year's Frosh class. That is pretty good.
You are right. My brain was on the conference. It would be 6 of 8 overall, 7 of 8 in B1G with 4 in a row.
Since 1950, NU has been better than 0.500 in the conference 5 times. Collins has one of the 5. Twenty-two times in 114 years of hoops futility. A losing conference record isn't exactly news......
Don’t disagree, but I was responding to the two assertions that Collins is a rising star and would never be in a position that his next job would be with a mid major.
I actually agree with you. I just think you need to use stats (stats are for losers) that support your argument.
Your hypothetical will simply not happen, imo, so I can't answer your question.
Let it go. You are going to have plenty of opportunity to resurrect the debate next year.
I am hardly a Cassandra (you can go back and see that after the Akron game, I said I thought the football team would have a good year, and,before Larkin was scratched, beat Michigan.). I saw trouble with the b-ball team at the beginning of January, and don’t think Coach Collins is without limitations. I will leave it at that.
Certainly w/o Sanjay and maybe even w/o Tap.
If Lumpkin hadn't come down w/ mono his frosh year and ended up red-shirting, NU BB history would be different.
That Tourney team was led by it's D and who led the D?
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Now, if BC were still the HC, think the program had a good chance of making it to the Tourney (by now) and there would have been more consistency in making the post-season (even if not the tournament everyone wants).
That being said, it was time - Phillips was never going to give BC the type of support he has given CC and not good for the program if the coach has one hand tied behind his back (like I have stated, Phillips should have done the deed earlier).
Unlike many, never thought it was a zero-sum situation w/ BC and CC - that only one of them could have taken the 'Cats to the Dance.
But BC was never going to enjoy recruiting and there are limitations to the type of recruit one can attract running the Princeton O, so in terms of reaching higher highs, CC offers more promise in that respect.
But things haven't been working and CC needs to make changes, esp. on O (which has never been good/efficient under his regime).
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If BC was here we'd still be waiting on a tourney appearance and sitting on those hard *** bleachers...
The fascination with Carmody amazes me. Fine, let's ignore aaaaaaall his tendencies and where the program was obviously headed after Shurna. I'm sure he was such an awesome coach that he would have built on the Sobo, Demps, Olah and Crawford foundation to get NU to a B10 championship. Right.
You've seen his record in the PATRIOT LEAGUE, right? What about the Holy Cross performance makes you think it would translate well to the B10? The B10 caught up to him after his second or third year.
You've seen his record in the PATRIOT LEAGUE, right? What about the Holy Cross performance makes you think it would translate well to the B10? The B10 caught up to him after his second or third year.
The BIG is brutal to get through this year, Lots of talent and a lot of good coaches, The problem is when you have a weakness such as lack of a starting PG, they have plenty of film, etc to figure out how to take advantage of that weakness. Basically the book is to cut of the inside game to Pardon and force to hit from the outside which we have not.
I love the Carmody-as-victim narrative. Carmody had no fault in the direction of that relationship?
A HUGE problem is that Carmody had no clue/interest in how to get the funding.
Do you really think for a second that Carmody was ever interested in the political/administrative part of the job? From his lack of interaction with the administration to lack of interest in recruiting, it's pretty obvious he wasn't. Hell, to his last day, he always referred to the NU administration as "them." It was never "we."
I know high school coaches who are more engaged with their supporters and administration for a far lesser economic impact.
This is modern college basketball and we all know the monetary potential. There is a CEO aspect to this position that Carmody never wanted to acknowledge. He just thought everybody should jump and give and NIT coach what he needed. You can't have a guy in that position who scoffs at the donors and the money.
So let's stop pretending that Carmody had nothing to do with that oil-and-water relationship. He was given PLENTY of opportunities to make it work in the Xs-and-Os-only box he built for himself.
This, I think, is a fundamental, important point. BC's record over the past 5 years had he stayed probably wouldn't be much different than CC's. He might even have made the tournament once, who knows. But no matter his achievements or lack thereof, and no matter whose "fault" it was, there is absolutely no way in hell he would be playing in a new stadium with new practice facilities on the way.
So even if CC isn't "the guy," and has no more success at NU, he'll leave an unbelievably strong foundation for the next coach.
Except that CCC would have been able to bring in another recruit. You play the hand you have. Sanjay was going to be here so everything was prepared and built with that in mind
This year we were supposed to have Lathon and Ash available. The two issues happened so late in the process, it was really hard to adjust to. Yes he adapted enough to bring in Greer but CCC had to convince him to reclassify to even do that. When it was clear that he was not yet ready, the adaption was to go to a LGless O because he really had no choice. But it was the hand he had.
Not really if BC had still been HC. Even if he had somehow gotten us to the Dance, it is unlikely that with BC as face of the program, the donors were going to pony up for the new arena.
With CCC as HC, more of a connection
You are absolutely correct. In my opinion he had no interest in doing all the things you mentioned to be a successful program and compete with the big boys. I’m might be wrong but I always had the impression he wanted nothing to do with the fans or the big alums who were interested in basketball. I always got the impression he felt Bienen hired him so he was untouchable. If you were at an event he gave the impression he would rather not be there than talk to us. If you asked him an honest question he would give you some flippant answer.
In my posts I refer to guy who is very close to Chris Collins. If you would like to know who that is, it’s his dad. He doesn’t have to answer any questions I ask of him. I’m just a guy from around the Northbrook basketball scene in the past. He will answer any reasonable question and in fact he’ll talk to you about it for as long as your willing to talk. He is a straight up guy and so is his son.
I found Doug to be a very straight up guy when I worked the scorers table for the Bulls. Also sat in and took notes during his post game interviews.
I hope not. My guess would be that if he is not successful at NU, his option would be as an assistant in the NBA.
Carmody was not a Power conference coach. He had no fire, did not recruit well enough to compete (eg Kaminsky failure and recue Vic Law’s dad’s quotes) and he copied his coaching strategies from Pete Carrill. There were no deviations or in-game adjustments. Carmody’s defense would never gotten NU in the top half of the conference which is needed to make the tourney. In the 1-3-1 defense, you can not put your 5’9” PG (Sobo) under the basket and survive v. 6’8”, 275 lbs. Jared Sullinger. It just would and did not happen. Carmody did not have the fire and would have quit as he did after finishing last in the Patriot League last season. Collins is a 45 year old with a long coaching future ahead of him and will get this ship in the right direction behind Kopp, Gaines and Nance leading the way. He has the pedigree and will not settle for anything other than success. Kopp, Nance, Beran, and Gaines would never have found their way to Evanston under the prior regime.
I have edited the post as that was against the rules and I apologize for that.
However, I stand by the message. His wife has cancer. He didn’t quit because the team was bad. What a monstrous thing to say.
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We'd be pretty much in the same spot, minus a tournament appearance, which was a big deal.
The university is satisfied with having a run-of-the-mill men's program, just as long as the team, coach and players don't embarrass the school. It's such a low bar. Every 30 years they throw us a bone with an arena refresh but couple it with a big ticket price raise and higher concessions, etc.
The school doesn't aspire to win anything in men's hoops and it's pretty bad when Turk poops out a hopeful "maybe we will win more than 4 conference games" post.
I just hope the school starts giving Coach Collins real support. He asked for more recruiting money but he needs more admission leeway. People say, "Fitz is winning in football with the same restrictions" but football is Northwestern's signature sport. Basketball has gotten a lot of monetary support lately but it's still dwarfed by the funds going toward football.
When Collins has a good year again, he must leverage it for more recruiting discretion. Cheating in recruitment among other programs has gotten so bad in basketball that lowering our admissions standards closer to the NCAA minimum is the only path forward. Collins should tell the administration, "Hey, if I pick guys who can't get the grades, then that will be on me."
It'll never happen, of course, not with our administration and admissions people.
The bottom line is that admissions and the administration doesn't trust our coaches to use good judgment on recruiting. They think our coaches will offer too many kids who will get into academic trouble and ruin the school's reputation.
In the end the university is perfectly happy to be just "okay" as long as we're not embarrassing like in the Dark Ages.