Which of you are going to buy a Tesla?

[op2]

I don't drive enough to buy new cars but some of you do. I've been reading about the Tesla. I didn't know very much about them before. It's pretty awesome. The Model 3 is scheduled to come out this year and they're aiming for a 35 K price point. There is a 7.5 K tax credit for the first so and so many sold. And of course you pay way less for fuel after you buy it.

And you don't pay for oil changes. Know why? Because the car doesn't use oil. I didn't realize just how different electric cars were before looking this stuff up. No pistons, no engine block, no transmission. If you open up the hood you see...nothing. Storage space. So you basically have two trunks, one in the front and one in the back.

The Teslas go over 200 miles on a charge. If you plug it in when you park it in your garage each day then you never need to do anything to get more power unless you drive over 200 miles in a day. And if you do drive over 200 miles, which is likely to be a trip, then there are many recharging stations, all of which are either free or discounted. I didn't realize it but there are a couple thousand Tesla recharging stations for electric cars (each with multiple ports per station) in this country already. All the recharging stations are solar powered. You could literally drive across the country spending zero on fuel and using zero energy other than solar energy.

How in the hell is it that we have these American car companies that have been around forever, Ford and Chrysler and Chevy, and none of them can come up with this stuff? Stale, unchallenged oligarchy. There hasn't been a car company start in this country that has survived long term since 1925 but Tesla is in the process of changing that. Someone needs to buy one and report back.

It is a triumph of private initiative, both in terms of Tesla and in terms of Elon Musk's other company, SpaceX, which is in the process of out-competing the Russian and Chinese governments, as well as giant American companies, for launching satellites. How is it that entities like the US government (by contracting out to US companies) and the Russian government have been sending stuff into space forever and then some startup company comes up and starts completely kicking all their asses at it?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

You're asking how a watch works. Just enjoy happy hour.

 

[Boomboom521]

I don't drive enough to buy new cars but some of you do. I've been reading about the Tesla. I didn't know very much about them before. It's pretty awesome. The Model 3 is scheduled to come out this year and they're aiming for a 35 K price point. There is a 7.5 K tax credit for the first so and so many sold. And of course you pay way less for fuel after you buy it.

And you don't pay for oil changes. Know why? Because the car doesn't use oil. I didn't realize just how different electric cars were before looking this stuff up. No pistons, no engine block, no transmission. If you open up the hood you see...nothing. Storage space. So you basically have two trunks, one in the front and one in the back.

The Teslas go over 200 miles on a charge. If you plug it in when you park it in your garage each day then you never need to do anything to get more power unless you drive over 200 miles in a day. And if you do drive over 200 miles, which is likely to be a trip, then there are many recharging stations, all of which are either free or discounted. I didn't realize it but there are a couple thousand Tesla recharging stations for electric cars (each with multiple ports per station) in this country already. All the recharging stations are solar powered. You could literally drive across the country spending zero on fuel and using zero energy other than solar energy.

How in the hell is it that we have these American car companies that have been around forever, Ford and Chrysler and Chevy, and none of them can come up with this stuff? Stale, unchallenged oligarchy. There hasn't been a car company start in this country that has survived long term since 1925 but Tesla is in the process of changing that. Someone needs to buy one and report back.

It is a triumph of private initiative, both in terms of Tesla and in terms of Elon Musk's other company, SpaceX, which is in the process of out-competing the Russian and Chinese governments, as well as giant American companies, for launching satellites. How is it that entities like the US government (by contracting out to US companies) and the Russian government have been sending stuff into space forever and then some startup company comes up and starts completely kicking all their asses at it?

I don't think the oil lobby has anything to do with that innovation being repressed

 

[WVUCOOPER]

I don't drive enough to buy new cars but some of you do. I've been reading about the Tesla. I didn't know very much about them before. It's pretty awesome. The Model 3 is scheduled to come out this year and they're aiming for a 35 K price point. There is a 7.5 K tax credit for the first so and so many sold. And of course you pay way less for fuel after you buy it.

And you don't pay for oil changes. Know why? Because the car doesn't use oil. I didn't realize just how different electric cars were before looking this stuff up. No pistons, no engine block, no transmission. If you open up the hood you see...nothing. Storage space. So you basically have two trunks, one in the front and one in the back.

The Teslas go over 200 miles on a charge. If you plug it in when you park it in your garage each day then you never need to do anything to get more power unless you drive over 200 miles in a day. And if you do drive over 200 miles, which is likely to be a trip, then there are many recharging stations, all of which are either free or discounted. I didn't realize it but there are a couple thousand Tesla recharging stations for electric cars (each with multiple ports per station) in this country already. All the recharging stations are solar powered. You could literally drive across the country spending zero on fuel and using zero energy other than solar energy.

How in the hell is it that we have these American car companies that have been around forever, Ford and Chrysler and Chevy, and none of them can come up with this stuff? Stale, unchallenged oligarchy. There hasn't been a car company start in this country that has survived long term since 1925 but Tesla is in the process of changing that. Someone needs to buy one and report back.

It is a triumph of private initiative, both in terms of Tesla and in terms of Elon Musk's other company, SpaceX, which is in the process of out-competing the Russian and Chinese governments, as well as giant American companies, for launching satellites. How is it that entities like the US government (by contracting out to US companies) and the Russian government have been sending stuff into space forever and then some startup company comes up and starts completely kicking all their asses at it?

I can't wait to get a Tesla, but I think the wait times for the Model 3 are insane. Besides, the Model 3 is for poors anyway.

 

[EEResistable]

I can't wait to get a Tesla, but I think the wait times for the Model 3 are insane. Besides, the Model 3 is for poors anyway.

Even if I had a Tesla, I would always have a muscle car. I love the sound of internal combustion. Long tube headers on a V8 is just so good.

 

[JLW71073]

Elon Musk is what we call a disruptor. There are lot's of other disruptors out there as well. Companies like Google, Amazon, Uber, Pay Pal, etc. One of the primary missions of Elon Musk is to disrupt the auto industry by offering innovative products in an innovative way. As example, their no dealership model is a disruptor to the dealership model of selling cars. The car they sell is a disruptor to the way we think a car should be built and run. The reason they can do the things they do is because they use concepts like Design Thinking and leap frogging. So instead of incremental improvement they just go do what their desired goal is.

Also, the long wait to get your car is by design, it's a marketing ploy.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I don't drive enough to buy new cars but some of you do. I've been reading about the Tesla. I didn't know very much about them before. It's pretty awesome. The Model 3 is scheduled to come out this year and they're aiming for a 35 K price point. There is a 7.5 K tax credit for the first so and so many sold. And of course you pay way less for fuel after you buy it.

And you don't pay for oil changes. Know why? Because the car doesn't use oil. I didn't realize just how different electric cars were before looking this stuff up. No pistons, no engine block, no transmission. If you open up the hood you see...nothing. Storage space. So you basically have two trunks, one in the front and one in the back.

The Teslas go over 200 miles on a charge. If you plug it in when you park it in your garage each day then you never need to do anything to get more power unless you drive over 200 miles in a day. And if you do drive over 200 miles, which is likely to be a trip, then there are many recharging stations, all of which are either free or discounted. I didn't realize it but there are a couple thousand Tesla recharging stations for electric cars (each with multiple ports per station) in this country already. All the recharging stations are solar powered. You could literally drive across the country spending zero on fuel and using zero energy other than solar energy.

How in the hell is it that we have these American car companies that have been around forever, Ford and Chrysler and Chevy, and none of them can come up with this stuff? Stale, unchallenged oligarchy. There hasn't been a car company start in this country that has survived long term since 1925 but Tesla is in the process of changing that. Someone needs to buy one and report back.

It is a triumph of private initiative, both in terms of Tesla and in terms of Elon Musk's other company, SpaceX, which is in the process of out-competing the Russian and Chinese governments, as well as giant American companies, for launching satellites. How is it that entities like the US government (by contracting out to US companies) and the Russian government have been sending stuff into space forever and then some startup company comes up and starts completely kicking all their asses at it?

What's interesting to me is that my senior design project was a hybrid electric vehicle. Many schools competed in this "challenge" and the ultimate competition was in Detroit at the end of the school year. College kids built many variations of options, based on basic thresholds that had to be met. I think it was nearly 10 years later or more until an American company had a hybrid vehicle on the market.

Based off of our performance in this event, I got a call from Chevrolet to work in their electric vehicle division, but I had already started my first job after college and really had no desire to live in, or anywhere near, Detroit. I kinda regret that decision now though, 20+ years later.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Even if I had a Tesla, I would always have a muscle car. I love the sound of internal combustion. Long tube headers on a V8 is just so good.

Agreed. I'd like a Tesla type car mostly for work commutes and such.

 

[op2]

Elon Musk is what we call a disruptor. There are lot's of other disruptors out there as well. Companies like Google, Amazon, Uber, Pay Pal, etc. One of the primary missions of Elon Musk is to disrupt the auto industry by offering innovative products in an innovative way. As example, their no dealership model is a disruptor to the dealership model of selling cars. The car they sell is a disruptor to the way we think a car should be built and run. The reason they can do the things they do is because they use concepts like Design Thinking and leap frogging. So instead of incremental improvement they just go do what their desired goal is.

Also, the long wait to get your car is by design, it's a marketing ploy.

But it's not as simple as "I think I'll disrupt an industry." If an industry is being run well then you're going to have a hard time disrupting it. They're disrupting the industry by doing things better than the car behemoths that have been around forever. The last Tesla model got the highest rating ever from whatever independent group rates these things...Car & Driver or whatever it was.

I agree the wait is a marketing ploy but I don't think they can make a lot of cars right now even if they wanted to. Since they can't they're using the shortage to their advantage as best they can. They're building a giant factory to make batteries in Nevada. It will make more lithium ion batteries than the entire world currently produces. The building will have a six million square foot footprint, which is almost as large as a square with each side being a half mile long. As that ramps up they'll be able to makes more and more.

 

[Mntneer]

What's interesting to me is that my senior design project was a hybrid electric vehicle. Many schools competed in this "challenge" and the ultimate competition was in Detroit at the end of the school year. College kids built many variations of options, based on basic thresholds that had to be met. I think it was nearly 10 years later or more until an American company had a hybrid vehicle on the market.

Based off of our performance in this event, I got a call from Chevrolet to work in their electric vehicle division, but I had already started my first job after college and really had no desire to live in, or anywhere near, Detroit. I kinda regret that decision now though, 20+ years later.

When were you at WVU?

I knew some of the guys that worked on the Electric F1 project.

 

[op2]

Agreed. I'd like a Tesla type car mostly for work commutes and such.

200 miles per charge and it's only going to get better. How often does that average person drive over 200 miles in a day?

If you want power does 0 to 60 in 2.3 seconds work for you? Musk tweeted about it below and interestingly a lot of the response was "Just give us something practical, we don't need great speed."

 

[WVUCOOPER]

200 miles per charge and it's only going to get better. How often does that average person drive over 200 miles in a day?

If you want power does 0 to 60 in 2.3 seconds work for you? Musk tweeted about it below and interestingly a lot of the response was "Just give us something practical, we don't need great speed."

Right...but it doesn't hold the same experience as a loud ***, smelly gas sucking car. We can have both.

 

[Mntneer]

200 miles per charge and it's only going to get better. How often does that average person drive over 200 miles in a day?

If you want power does 0 to 60 in 2.3 seconds work for you? Musk tweeted about it below and interestingly a lot of the response was "Just give us something practical, we don't need great speed."

 

[JLW71073]

How long does it take to recharge a battery? As example if, I'm on a long trip, I sure as hell don;t want to stop for an hour while my battery recharges.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

How long does it take to recharge a battery? As example if, I'm on a long trip, I sure as hell don;t want to stop for an hour while my battery recharges.

Don't know, but I'm betting it takes longer than an hour to fully charge.

 

[JLW71073]

Don't know, but I'm betting it takes longer than an hour to fully charge.

I would bet you're right.

Ain't nobody got time for that. More than 10 min at a stop and I'm getting pissy.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Don't know, but I'm betting it takes longer than an hour to fully charge.

Looks like it depends on what kind of charger you are using:

https://www.tesla.com/models-charging#/basics

 

[bornaneer]

Can someone do the math and tell us how long a cross country trip will take after stopping every 200 miles for a charge.....that is assuming the charging stations are conveniently accessible every 200 miles.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

When were you at WVU?

I knew some of the guys that worked on the Electric F1 project.

I graduated in '94 ... they were starting the F1 project that year. I was there when nothing but the rolling chassis came in. It was cool watching it all come together.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Can someone do the math and tell us how long a cross country trip will take after stopping every 200 miles for a charge.....that is assuming the charging stations are conveniently accessible every 200 miles.

Be an hour stop every 200 miles...compared to an average 30 min stop every 200 miles with gas. That's 30 minutes per 200 miles. It is 2,787 miles from LA to NYC. That's 14 stops. 7 hours added to trip.

 

[Mntneer]

I graduated in '94 ... they were starting the F1 project that year. I was there when nothing but the rolling chassis came in. It was cool watching it all come together.

You were 2 years ahead of me then. Finally graduated in Dec '96. By then they had transmission, batteries, etc. You EE?

 

[Airport]

I don't drive enough to buy new cars but some of you do. I've been reading about the Tesla. I didn't know very much about them before. It's pretty awesome. The Model 3 is scheduled to come out this year and they're aiming for a 35 K price point. There is a 7.5 K tax credit for the first so and so many sold. And of course you pay way less for fuel after you buy it.

And you don't pay for oil changes. Know why? Because the car doesn't use oil. I didn't realize just how different electric cars were before looking this stuff up. No pistons, no engine block, no transmission. If you open up the hood you see...nothing. Storage space. So you basically have two trunks, one in the front and one in the back.

The Teslas go over 200 miles on a charge. If you plug it in when you park it in your garage each day then you never need to do anything to get more power unless you drive over 200 miles in a day. And if you do drive over 200 miles, which is likely to be a trip, then there are many recharging stations, all of which are either free or discounted. I didn't realize it but there are a couple thousand Tesla recharging stations for electric cars (each with multiple ports per station) in this country already. All the recharging stations are solar powered. You could literally drive across the country spending zero on fuel and using zero energy other than solar energy.

How in the hell is it that we have these American car companies that have been around forever, Ford and Chrysler and Chevy, and none of them can come up with this stuff? Stale, unchallenged oligarchy. There hasn't been a car company start in this country that has survived long term since 1925 but Tesla is in the process of changing that. Someone needs to buy one and report back.

It is a triumph of private initiative, both in terms of Tesla and in terms of Elon Musk's other company, SpaceX, which is in the process of out-competing the Russian and Chinese governments, as well as giant American companies, for launching satellites. How is it that entities like the US government (by contracting out to US companies) and the Russian government have been sending stuff into space forever and then some startup company comes up and starts completely kicking all their asses at it?

1. Energy is energy. Nothing is free. The batteries in the electric cars are very,very expensive and do have to be replaced. Disposal of batteries has and is a problem with all cars.
2. Where does the energy come from that charges these cars? Out of thin air?
3. Should not get tax incentives to buy any car, should stand on it's own.
4.I'd hate to have to look for some place to refuel every 3 hours, sure would make for a long trip, esp if it took more than 10 mins.

 

[Airport]

But it's not as simple as "I think I'll disrupt an industry." If an industry is being run well then you're going to have a hard time disrupting it. They're disrupting the industry by doing things better than the car behemoths that have been around forever. The last Tesla model got the highest rating ever from whatever independent group rates these things...Car & Driver or whatever it was.

I agree the wait is a marketing ploy but I don't think they can make a lot of cars right now even if they wanted to. Since they can't they're using the shortage to their advantage as best they can. They're building a giant factory to make batteries in Nevada. It will make more lithium ion batteries than the entire world currently produces. The building will have a six million square foot footprint, which is almost as large as a square with each side being a half mile long. As that ramps up they'll be able to makes more and more.

How long before those lithium batteries have to be replaced? At what cost? You are going to be taxed on how much you drive since you will not be paying road user tax when buying fuel.

 

[Airport]

I don't drive enough to buy new cars but some of you do. I've been reading about the Tesla. I didn't know very much about them before. It's pretty awesome. The Model 3 is scheduled to come out this year and they're aiming for a 35 K price point. There is a 7.5 K tax credit for the first so and so many sold. And of course you pay way less for fuel after you buy it.

And you don't pay for oil changes. Know why? Because the car doesn't use oil. I didn't realize just how different electric cars were before looking this stuff up. No pistons, no engine block, no transmission. If you open up the hood you see...nothing. Storage space. So you basically have two trunks, one in the front and one in the back.

The Teslas go over 200 miles on a charge. If you plug it in when you park it in your garage each day then you never need to do anything to get more power unless you drive over 200 miles in a day. And if you do drive over 200 miles, which is likely to be a trip, then there are many recharging stations, all of which are either free or discounted. I didn't realize it but there are a couple thousand Tesla recharging stations for electric cars (each with multiple ports per station) in this country already. All the recharging stations are solar powered. You could literally drive across the country spending zero on fuel and using zero energy other than solar energy.

How in the hell is it that we have these American car companies that have been around forever, Ford and Chrysler and Chevy, and none of them can come up with this stuff? Stale, unchallenged oligarchy. There hasn't been a car company start in this country that has survived long term since 1925 but Tesla is in the process of changing that. Someone needs to buy one and report back.

It is a triumph of private initiative, both in terms of Tesla and in terms of Elon Musk's other company, SpaceX, which is in the process of out-competing the Russian and Chinese governments, as well as giant American companies, for launching satellites. How is it that entities like the US government (by contracting out to US companies) and the Russian government have been sending stuff into space forever and then some startup company comes up and starts completely kicking all their asses at it?

I also looked up tesla and there's a report that 2/3 of tesla's drive trains may have to be replaced by 60,000.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

You were 2 years ahead of me then. Finally graduated in Dec '96. By then they had transmission, batteries, etc. You EE?

Yeah, EE. They were putting the battery packs and motor and everything together while I was still there. There was a requirement that you had to stop and do a battery change, so they were working on doing that as efficiently as possible.

They had the F1 car there, and then here we are working on a Ford Escort Wagon. LOL

 

[moe]

I also looked up tesla and there's a report that 2/3 of tesla's drive trains may have to be replaced by 60,000.

It's not really a drive train, it's an electric motor at each wheel I believe but any moving part eventually wears out. Replacing the batteries is the problem for me as I like to hold onto cars and rechargeable batteries do wear out eventually. I had a hybrid and was panicked to sell it at around 110k miles.

 

[JLW71073]

Be an hour stop every 200 miles...compared to an average 30 min stop every 200 miles with gas. That's 30 minutes per 200 miles. It is 2,787 miles from LA to NYC. That's 14 stops. 7 hours added to trip.

just shoot me.

 

[Airport]

It's not really a drive train, it's an electric motor at each wheel I believe but any moving part eventually wears out. Replacing the batteries is the problem for me as I like to hold onto cars and rechargeable batteries do wear out eventually. I had a hybrid and was panicked to sell it at around 110k miles.

The batteries look expensive but if the car hold up, who knows.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

The batteries look expensive but if the car hold up, who knows.

We get it. You're not a fan. Don't buy one. It's that easy.

 

[JLW71073]

There is a tesla "dealership" inside the Tyson's mall in Tyson va. It's in a space about the size of an American Eagle store. They have a car with the body removed so you can see the inner workings, and a full version you can sit in. Lots of other cool stuff to look at too. If I could post a pic from my phone I would.

 

[op2]

They have superchargers across the country, mostly on major highways for long trip convenience. It takes 30 minutes to charge 170 miles. If you bought your Tesla before Jan 1, 2017 then it's always free but if you buy it after Jan 1, 2017 you only get enough for 1,000 miles each year and after that you have to pay something. But 1,000 miles is probably all people use for trips each year anyway. Here is the current supercharger map.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
Then there is are the destination superchargers. These are superchargers that you can't just drive up and use but rather are at business (hotels, restaurants, shopping centers, etc) and you have to be frequenting the business to use them. Here is a map of them.

https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging
https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging
Yeah, stuff probably breaks after awhile, as with any machine. You have to take you gasoline car in for maintenance too. There are 200 parts in an internal combustion engine while an electric car engine has 10. Part of the reason the status quo car industry folks don't like electrics is because taking your car in for maintenance every six months is a big business.

However many superchargers there are now there are only going to be more in the future. The same goes for destination superchargers. The 200 mile range (and I saw some number larger than that but didn't want to fudge) is only going to go up. It's only going to get better, unlike gas cars that are a mature technology.

I don't know about the destination superchargers, but the regular superchargers are solar powered. So you're using solar energy to re-charge your car batteries. The giant battery plant they're making in Nevada is either totally solar powered or almost totally solar powered. If it's not completely solar powered the rest of the power will be renewable energy.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/11/14231952/tesla-gigafactory-solar-rooftop-70-megawatt

 

[op2]

I also looked up tesla and there's a report that 2/3 of tesla's drive trains may have to be replaced by 60,000.

I don't know what it costs to replace a drive train but you're supposed to replace your timing belt in a gas car every 60,000 miles and that's close to $1,000 alone, not the mention all the oil changes and transmission fluid changes and spark plugs and all that crap.

Oh, and of course let's not forget, you're paying a lot less for fuel the entire time you own an electric car.

 

[op2]

How long before those lithium batteries have to be replaced? At what cost? You are going to be taxed on how much you drive since you will not be paying road user tax when buying fuel.

People driving a gas car OUGHT to be paying more tax than people driving an electric gas because gas cars pollute way more, which is a cost society bears.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

If I could post a pic from my phone I would.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

The batteries look expensive but if the car hold up, who knows.

The batteries are expensive, but I would imagine they are less expensive than all the money you would have paid in gas in that same time frame.

My ultimate goal is to have solar panels on the roof of my house and garage, and then get an electric car. Aside from the up-front costs, I'd pay nothing in fuel to drive. I'd be paying less for electric too since the solar panels would be helping with the load on the house. I probably would get an entirely new house for all of that though, my house is nearly 100 years old, I don't think I want to invest all of that into this one.

 

[op2]

Re. "where can you charge them" that some folks say, yeah, they're right, but note that that is the result of an entrenched gas car system that naturally results in gas stations everywhere. If everything was electric cars and there were recharging stations everywhere and someone tried to start using gas cars they'd have a problem because there wouldn't be many gas stations.

So the answer to the question "Which is better under the status quo?" is of course gas cars because the status quo was built to serve gas cars. The question instead should be, "With a status quo not favoring one or the the other, what would be better?"

 

[moe]

Re. "where can you charge them" that some folks say, yeah, they're right, but note that that is the result of an entrenched gas car system that naturally results in gas stations everywhere. If everything was electric cars and there were recharging stations everywhere and someone tried to start using gas cars they'd have a problem because there wouldn't be many gas stations.

So the answer to the question "Which is better under the status quo?" is of course gas cars because the status quo was built to serve gas cars. The question instead should be, "With a status quo not favoring one or the the other, what would be better?"

I don't know if the plugs are all the same but I've seen charging stations at McDonald's and saw one at Pipestem SP recently and that's in last-to-get-it-WV and the McD's sighting was probably 7 years ago.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

I don't know if the plugs are all the same but I've seen charging stations at McDonald's and saw one at Pipestem SP recently and that's in last-to-get-it-WV and the McD's sighting was probably 7 years ago.

I believe all the state parks will have them/do have them.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

People driving a gas car OUGHT to be paying more tax than people driving an electric gas because gas cars pollute way more, which is a cost society bears.

I didn't realize the extent to which you were entrenched in the environmental religion. Is that accurate though? What about the disposal of the batteries? Are all charging stations powered by solar or are some on another type of grid? I don't know the answers to these questions. How harmful are vehicle emissions these day?

 

[JMichael]

I own a Tesla. Be glad to answer any questions.
FYI the muscle cars are too slow.