Who's gonna guard Wilson from UNC
- Thread starter rivercatinfl
- Start date
I'll answer. He does none of those things. His teams just play ridiculously soft defense, and have for his entire coaching career. This particular team just seems to be not very good at offense on top of that. Bad combo.
Caleb Wilson has been awesome, and was clearly a huge miss. With that said, I haven't watched Wilson and thought "this guy would fix our problems."
Pope hasn’t missed any shots or given up the lane one time since he has been coach. This may come as a total shock to you but players have a responsibility too. Ours shouldn’t even look in a mirror.
His best defensive teams throughout his coaching career grade out around top 50 I believe. His worst are outside the top 100. It's not just about these softies he's currently coaching. His defensive acumen is lacking. Drop coverage against Louisville and the intentionally leaving MSU wide open on the perimeter are serious issues with his defensive game planning. Last years blowout losses were all from giving up a ton of points per possession. While I agree, he's not on the court playing defense, but neither are the guys he coaches.
Defense is you. Guy baselines you, it’s on you. Guy gets into the lane on you, that’s on you. You don’t get out on the three that’s on you. You can’t look in the mirror and say that’s your best.
Those stats you are trying to beat our coach to death with won’t improve till our guys can face themselves. These are things we expect from middle schoolers. Instead we accept pass and jack benny ball.
I think you’re minimizing the effect that a coach has on the game:
Who determines the following, players or coaches:
1.) Which defense to run (man to man, 2-3 zone, Halfcourt trap, etc.)?
2.) Defensive pressure philosophy: whether to play tight, moderate or give gap?
3.) How to defend ball screens: icing, drop coverage, whether to provide soft or hard hedge, whether to switch everyone, whether to switch offball (GSW), whether to allow switches on 15 PnR, etc?
4.) How to defend the post? Fronting the post, playing 3/4, whether to trap post?
5.) When pressure defense is to be initiated, whether always, whether after made shots, etc?
6.) Whether to force the opposing team baseline or not?
These are just a few decisions a coach will make that have an effect tactically on the game. None of that is to say that players don’t have a responsibility—-they do—-but that responsibility would go to the coach for evaluation.
And let’s be clear, I’m an all-in Pope guy but you seem to run full speed from placing even the slightest blame on him for his defensive coaching.
As a fanbase, we all hope it improves
So Mark Popes teams over the course of his career have been average at best and below average defensively...and it's all on those players? Huh. Maybe he should recruit better players?
None of those defensive measures will be effective. They will all fail. Nothing works if you can’t stay in front of the ball. We are refusing to
You think those guys can’t stay in front of the ball? I haven’t seen anyone on crutches. Come talk to me when we stop giving up the lane. Then we can discuss coaching strategy.
I don’t think you see that’s an even worse problem. If Pope can’t evaluate talent, that’s unfixable. What I’m suggesting are scheme—and fixable. You think you’re defending the coach but providing an even more grave scenario.
That’s a pride and honor type thing. I’m starting to wonder if this is what happens when you put 7 figures in a kid’s pocket a certain percentage of the time. I see it on other teams too. Lack of maturity would explain a lot of what we see.
I have no idea, but I can’t blame it on in NIL in my own mind. If we are going to win a national championship, we are going to have to go through six matchups against teams that paid their players, maybe 5 if you’re a 1 or 2 seed and play a team with no money in the round of 64.
My hope is that Pope doesn’t have any fundamental issues evaluating talent and that it’s all just figuring out how to get the best defensive product out of this group by season’s end. I disagree with others in the thread pointing to Pope’s prior defensive efficiency numbers to say he CAN’T end up with a good defensive product now. The reason I can disagree with that is that I do not accept the premise that we have poorly evaluated defensive talent and/or do not have the horses. Make no mistake, there’s a level of athlete on this team now that Pope has never had. I’m trying to be patient as my coach figures it out.
You guys are pretty funny. No coach on the planet can coach defense with players that won’t stay in front of their man. No way these players are not capable of doing that. No coach can make you do that. This is not a talent issue. This is a failure to perform. It’s pretty clear to me you have never played, much less excelled at defense.
And yes, NIL is playing a role. Let someone stuff an unmonitored million bucks in your pocket at 19. You don’t see how that changes the game, then you are lying or blind
Hey man, I only intended to try to share with you a reason fans are frustrated. It doesn’t mean anyone is blind if they are being logically consistent. Someone is going to cut down the nets this year who paid players, so saying we aren’t performing because of the NIL feels like a cop-out to me. During the evaluation process, we will have to bank on Pope’s evaluation of these players. We hope he finds guys who want to be here for more than the NIL. Otherwise, locker room issues and poor chemistry become an issue. That’s why there’s really nowhere to kick the can. Either you think the issues are fixable with tactical adjustment or you think Pope brought the wrong players here. One way or the other, no one should be upset by whichever view held by fans. None of us know for sure yet, and it may not be apparent for months.
Maybe not, but he wouldn’t hurt and he gives us an auto bucket around the Goal and skills to pass on the perimeter.
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I didn’t say every kid was distracted by cash but we seem to be.
You are wrong again No tactical adjustment will fix this problem. Pope could never predict which players will get this horribly distracted. The fix lies in the hearts and minds of those kids wearing the jersies. Mash said it. Issel said it. I hear it from many others in every discussions. We have no heart and ownership in our players.
You want to understand this, stop looking for a scape goat. Forget the talking heads. Forget the play stationish stratibabble. Look at the players and how they fight on defense. When you see that fight, then we can talk tactics and strategy.
Dude…all the good teams are playing them. Why can their dudes contain the dribble? Kind of a dumb argument. It’s just rich UK guys that can’t stop the ball? Ridiculous.
Agree to disagree on the nice discussion part. Dude is clueless.Agree to disagree. Nice discussion
Not sure if you have been around long enough to have figured out ol bass. You can’t have a discussion with him. Ever.Agree to disagree. Nice discussion
Bass will take your *** downtown and drive the square showing you every building by name even thought there’s no buildings left standing. When you report this to him, he scoffs and keeps driving and naming.
I love when you have people who are trying to defend the coach. I want to as well. I love me some Mark Pope, but I always think of my thoughts as pieces of a puzzle. If they don’t fit together, I can’t keep them.
I still believe as fans we are waiting to find out whether the issue is on-court coaching or the result of personnel. Whether one or the other, the captain is responsible for his ship.
By the way, acknowledging the coaching wasn’t great in the first few weeks of the season shouldn’t be a shocker. Sometimes it takes coaches time to figure out what their rotations are, what schemes work best for that roster and what the strengths and weaknesses of their parts are. I think for some, when you say these things, it is interpreted as coach bashing. The truth couldn’t be more distant from that.
I still believe as fans we are waiting to find out whether the issue is on-court coaching or the result of personnel. Whether one or the other, the captain is responsible for his ship.
By the way, acknowledging the coaching wasn’t great in the first few weeks of the season shouldn’t be a shocker. Sometimes it takes coaches time to figure out what their rotations are, what schemes work best for that roster and what the strengths and weaknesses of their parts are. I think for some, when you say these things, it is interpreted as coach bashing. The truth couldn’t be more distant from that.
Honestly? I just have a hard time believing a Mitch Barnhart hire is going to work. I’d love to be proven wrong, but I need to see progress. Defensive progress, consistency, something, anything really.
But I don’t hate Pope, personally. If anything I feel like he’s been thrown into a den of snakes by none other than our AD. I feel bad for him. I hope he perseveres, but he’s just as likely to succumb to the madness. I’m just not convinced he has the right mindset for a job like this. Perhaps the madness changes him? That would be nice.
As for Wilson, it’s a tough order but honestly your best bet is probably play Wilson straight up and make him beat you by himself. Our habit of overhelping could be a problem if you start letting the likes of Veesar, Luka and Trimble get going. Wilson has been really efficient but he hasn’t been tested the same way some of our guys have. I look forward to our guys showing a little bit of fight in this game, as I think Pope has shown a great ability to whip his team up when underdogs. We may technically be favored in the game, but I think from a coaching standpoint, it may be an effective sell to say, “Do you hear the noise? No one thinks we are any good.” Could be freeing.
Honestly, I don’t think about Pope in terms of Mitch or anyone else who would be the next AD for that coach. I look at their adjustments, gameplan execution, development, etc. I thought year one, he passed some of my personal tests. It wasn’t perfect, but good enough for me to believe in the vision. Year two has inarguably stunk, but it’s still very early.
Pope doesn’t know how to coach this team. I think that’s the honest truth. Tough to see a guy this smart not really know, but “this **** is hard”. I was really wrong about how dominant I thought this team would be, haven’t missed in a while but I missed this. I think the issue is the pieces don’t fit and he got caught up trying to adjust to the conference and the defense required. Honestly, Mark just needs to coach his way. If it doesn’t work then it doesn’t work but this major adjustment to his own philosophy just doesn’t look like it’s going to work.
It’s still early, but then I think the personalities and the issue that these guys all competed against each other in conference is a problem. Oweh thinks he’s the man, but he’s not better than Aberdeen. Garrison isn’t starter material but he thinks it’s his team. I really think there are issues they’re working through. Then you’ve got Collin who doesn’t seem to fit with these guys. I’m worried about him hauling it in to BYU next year.
Mark has got to get this together and fast.
It’ll probably be Brandon garrison but it should obviously should be mo or Moreno. I’m not confident in that game either will see how everything goes
I agree. He doesn’t know how to coach this team —- yet. Remains to be seen if he gets it figured out, but I hope so.
Feels kind of like hearing Michigan State can't hit an outside shot and then we play them and they are a team of all Steph Curry type players when they play us,lol.