Why Can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game?

LionsMD

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This is a serious question…..Why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game, similar to Michigan and Washington? Similar to Pennsylvania, the states of Michigan and Washington are not fertile recruiting grounds. In addition, both Michigan and Washington are not bringing in Top 5 or Top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out. Both schools don’t have fantastic facilities, they have average to good facilities like Penn State. Both schools are not doling out multi-millions in NIL, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington are not warm weather environments, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington have proved that you don’t have to be an SEC team to get to the National Championship Game.

So again, why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game? Is Penn State struggling or failing in Coaching, Culture, Player Development, or what, as compared to Michigan and Washington?
 

Nits1989

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The blue chip ratio supports Penn State’s ability to make the playoff and win a Natty. Washington and Michigan have been in the playoff multiple times. MSU and TCU have made it. On paper, none of them are better situated than PSU. There is sufficient talent at Penn State. They’ve been close.
 

BobPSU92

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OBVIOUSLY. o_O it’s one or more of the following:

1. Franklin could get us to the championship game but chooses not to.

2. We don’t deserve better.

3. F*ck us.

Of course, these issues will go away after PSU spends $700 MM on stadium upgrades. (Signed, Brandon Short o_O )
 

Catch1lion

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The blue chip ratio supports Penn State’s ability to make the playoff and win a Natty. Washington and Michigan have been in the playoff multiple times. MSU and TCU have made it. On paper, none of them are better situated than PSU. There is sufficient talent at Penn State. They’ve been close.
See the good fortune element. Just look back to the Peach Bowl. Two awfully close big plays flipped. The calls were correct but microseconds away from being a great play . The Pick 6 against OSU flipped. Clifford injury when we are up at Iowa. All of those things are part of the game, but F us.
 
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CyphaPSU

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Develop a quarterback who can play at an elite level, get the receivers back to the level PSU had even just a couple years ago, develop offensive linemen who can at least be more consistent in holding blocks and getting to the second level against our best opponents, and we will be making a run for the national championship.
 

TheBigUglies

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See the good fortune element. Just look back to the Peach Bowl. Two awfully close big plays flipped. The Pick 6 against OSU flipped. Clifford injury when we are up at Iowa. All of those things are part of the game, but F us.
The original question is a loaded question!! We have been close but also the flipped calls upon review were correct if my memory serves me correctly? The glaring issue to me, is the play calling and coaching. Defense was great this year, offense not so much. Offense has seemingly continued to struggle this year again which indicates to me that something needs to be corrected, not at a major level, but just some minor things, like maybe adjustments blocking schemes/assignments(stop having the TE try to block a down lineman or using combo block up thru the LBer-sometimes it doesn't seem like we block the 2nd level players), route running of receivers to get open or find openings in coverage, tweaks to running out of certain formations to confuse defenses, QB steps after snap, QB progressions, RB and/or WR steps off the snap, OL steps off the snap,(defender fundamentals are to read the offenses player movements as well to figure out where point of attack may be) - there could a lot of tiny tweaks that could be made to make the offense timing and plays improve. Also, decisions in games, why would you play an injured LBer who is maybe 1/3 of himself instead of the back up? Maybe because you realize that you are not preparing your backups adequately? Yes, maybe that is not fair because the opposing coach exploited the fact that your starters opted out. However, if we continue to have these great recruiting classes then there shouldn't really be that much of a talent drop off and the 2nd stringer should be prepared to go in. That is a football player and coaching fundamental that the 2nd string/backup is only 1 play away, at all times, from being the starter!! The reason I am harping on this because these things seem to be a consistent issue under Franklin and after 10 years seem to remain the same. I understand each kid/player may be different and not listen, but, you need to prepare the players consistently. We didn't seem prepared when Clifford went down, we didn't seem prepared when the DBs opted out and Carter got injured. I thought I saw something from Franklin where there was a clip of him say we have loads of competition in practice but I am beginning to think his definition of competition in practice is different then the competition players should be going through each practice competing for playing time or a starting position. That kind of competition makes players better. I don't think we are far away but the little things need to be cleaned up. Someone has asked this in the past, has any player improved under Franklin? I am hoping Drew improves at the QB position or the offense is going to struggle again(in tougher competition) next year as well.
 

psu31trap

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This is a serious question…..Why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game, similar to Michigan and Washington? Similar to Pennsylvania, the states of Michigan and Washington are not fertile recruiting grounds. In addition, both Michigan and Washington are not bringing in Top 5 or Top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out. Both schools don’t have fantastic facilities, they have average to good facilities like Penn State. Both schools are not doling out multi-millions in NIL, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington are not warm weather environments, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington have proved that you don’t have to be an SEC team to get to the National Championship Game.

So again, why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game? Is Penn State struggling or failing in Coaching, Culture, Player Development, or what, as compared to Michigan and Washington?
There are a host of reasons why some schools make it to a NC game while others do not. Not in any particular order, but having a group of top notch scouts assess HS talent is critical. A good scout can look at a 5* QB and know how well they will transition to college ball. Equally important is having assistants who are able to develop athletes in skill positions to play at peak performance. However, in my humble opinion all roads lead to Jim Harbaugh. A former college and NFL player and a dam good NFL coach. After being pretty much down and out just a short while ago, he has been able to put all the pieces together and get Michigan to a National Championship game against a very good Washington team and potentially the best QB in college football in M. Penix.
 
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MacNit

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The original question is a loaded question!! We have been close but also the flipped calls upon review were correct if my memory serves me correctly? The glaring issue to me, is the play calling and coaching. Defense was great this year, offense not so much. Offense has seemingly continued to struggle this year again which indicates to me that something needs to be corrected, not at a major level, but just some minor things, like maybe adjustments blocking schemes/assignments(stop having the TE try to block a down lineman or using combo block up thru the LBer-sometimes it doesn't seem like we block the 2nd level players), route running of receivers to get open or find openings in coverage, tweaks to running out of certain formations to confuse defenses, QB steps after snap, QB progressions, RB and/or WR steps off the snap, OL steps off the snap,(defender fundamentals are to read the offenses player movements as well to figure out where point of attack may be) - there could a lot of tiny tweaks that could be made to make the offense timing and plays improve. Also, decisions in games, why would you play an injured LBer who is maybe 1/3 of himself instead of the back up? Maybe because you realize that you are not preparing your backups adequately? Yes, maybe that is not fair because the opposing coach exploited the fact that your starters opted out. However, if we continue to have these great recruiting classes then there shouldn't really be that much of a talent drop off and the 2nd stringer should be prepared to go in. That is a football player and coaching fundamental that the 2nd string/backup is only 1 play away, at all times, from being the starter!! The reason I am harping on this because these things seem to be a consistent issue under Franklin and after 10 years seem to remain the same. I understand each kid/player may be different and not listen, but, you need to prepare the players consistently. We didn't seem prepared when Clifford went down, we didn't seem prepared when the DBs opted out and Carter got injured. I thought I saw something from Franklin where there was a clip of him say we have loads of competition in practice but I am beginning to think his definition of competition in practice is different then the competition players should be going through each practice competing for playing time or a starting position. That kind of competition makes players better. I don't think we are far away but the little things need to be cleaned up. Someone has asked this in the past, has any player improved under Franklin? I am hoping Drew improves at the QB position or the offense is going to struggle again(in tougher competition) next year as well.
Why assume Allar will be QB next year?
 

MacNit

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This is a serious question…..Why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game, similar to Michigan and Washington? Similar to Pennsylvania, the states of Michigan and Washington are not fertile recruiting grounds. In addition, both Michigan and Washington are not bringing in Top 5 or Top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out. Both schools don’t have fantastic facilities, they have average to good facilities like Penn State. Both schools are not doling out multi-millions in NIL, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington are not warm weather environments, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington have proved that you don’t have to be an SEC team to get to the National Championship Game.

So again, why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game? Is Penn State struggling or failing in Coaching, Culture, Player Development, or what, as compared to Michigan and Washington?
We should quit whistling past the graveyard. It’s Franklin! He is not up to the job!!
 
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PSUFTG2

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Something to consider:

The last 2 years, Mike Yurcich was the OC.
Prior to coming to PSU, Yurcich always was working under someone who was a QB coach by training (ie, he wasn't the resident "QB Guru" - at OkState it was Gundy, at OSU it was Wilson, at UT it was Herman).
At PSU, there was no QB guru on staff. Not to mention, even Mike Y was not on the field during games (and even from row 50 it was easy to see how flustered and out of sorts Allar was on game days)

Moving to 2024, the OC will be the fellow from Kansas - who has never coached QBs (the QB coach at Kansas/Buffalo was Jim Zebrowski, a pretty highly-regarded guy, who has been around for a while). So PSU will not have a QB coach on the staff.

That might be less than ideal.


Some things just seem so obvious, you are left wondering "What am I missing?" - but the answer is often "Nope, you ain't missing nothing".


So:
"Why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game, similar to Michigan and Washington?"
The single most important issue in creating a championship level squad is to get consistent efficient productivity out of the QB spot - whether it be a dual-threat guy like the kid at Alabama, a pure passer like the kid at Washington, or a "do your job" guy like the QB at Michigan.
PSU had that type of efficient productivity for a couple years w McSorley - and damn near broke through to the MNC games (despite horrendous line play and poor depth due to the sanctions). That was also the last time PSU seemed to have quality QB coaching.
 
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psuno1

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James Franklin has won two games (OSU) 2016 (Wisky) 2016 that really matter in 10 years, that might have something to do with it- you have to win big games not just talk about it.
 
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Catch1lion

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We should quit whistling past tne graveyard. It’s Franklin! He is not up to the job!!
Whistling past the graveyard. Love it.
 

FrontierLion

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The single most important issue in creating a championship level squad is to get consistent efficient productivity out of the QB spot - whether it be a dual-threat guy like the kid at Alabama, a pure passer like the kid at Washington, or a "do your job" guy like the QB at Michigan.
PSU had that type of efficient productivity for a couple years w McSorley - and damn near broke through to the MNC games (despite horrendous line play and poor depth due to the sanctions). That was also the last time PSU seemed to have quality QB coaching.
This is the answer.

Go back to December of 2017. Penn State vs Washington in the Fiesta Bowl. We all know the outcome.

Since that day, Washington went 10-4, 8-5, 3-1 (covid year), 4-8, 11-2, 13-0.

What changed for Washington after the 4-8 season? Michael Penix from the portal.

The difference between Penn State and Washington since they played in that Fiesta Bowl is negligible, but for one thing: an elite QB.

If we landed Justin Fields over (Georgia)/Ohio State, we make the playoffs during his tenure.
 

PSUFTG2

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This is the answer.

Go back to December of 2017. Penn State vs Washington in the Fiesta Bowl. We all know the outcome.

Since that day, Washington went 10-4, 8-5, 3-1 (covid year), 4-8, 11-2, 13-0.

What changed for Washington after the 4-8 season? Michael Penix from the portal.

The difference between Penn State and Washington since they played in that Fiesta Bowl is negligible, but for one thing: an elite QB.

If we landed Justin Fields over (Georgia)/Ohio State, we make the playoffs during his tenure.

Agreed.

And when you did deeper: How do you get effective QB play?

Look at every Top Ten team, what do you find?
Either a HC who has a track record of developing QBs, or an OC/QB coach with that track record.

Rarely will you find a Top Ten team without a proven QB developer on staff.
PSU doesn't even have a QB Coach - let alone one with a quality track record of developing QBs.
 

FrontierLion

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Agreed.

And when you did deeper: How do you get effective QB play?

Look at every Top Ten team, what do you find?
Either a HC who has a track record of developing QBs, or an OC/QB coach with that track record.

Rarely will you find a Top Ten team without a proven QB developer on staff.
PSU doesn't even have a QB Coach - let alone one with a quality track record of developing QBs.
The most crucial position - QB - is where Penn State has historically underperformed. We've had superstar WR's, RB's, LB's, DB's, DL's, come through the program at times ... and strong enough offensive lineman (though that area lacks as well), but haven't had a superstar QB since Kerry Collins.

(I have a soft spot for Trace McSorley by the way, but I don't think anybody in their right mind would put him in the same class as superstar QBs.)

That position is what's ultimately keeping us from being elite.

And it's simply a matter of recruiting & development. We rarely get the 5-star superstar. And if we ever do (Allar) we don't develop them or they don't fit the system.
 

TheBigUglies

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Something to consider:

The last 2 years, Mike Yurcich was the OC.
Prior to coming to PSU, Yurcich always was working under someone who was a QB coach by training (ie, he wasn't the resident "QB Guru" - at OkState it was Gundy, at OSU it was Wilson, at UT it was Herman).
At PSU, there was no QB guru on staff. Not to mention, even Mike Y was not on the field during games (and even from row 50 it was easy to see how flustered and out of sorts Allar was on game days)

Moving to 2024, the OC will be the fellow from Kansas - who has never coached QBs (the QB coach at Kansas/Buffalo was Jim Zebrowski, a pretty highly-regarded guy, who has been around for a while). So PSU will not have a QB coach on the staff.

That might be less than ideal.


Some things just seem so obvious, you are left wondering "What am I missing?" - but the answer is often "Nope, you ain't missing nothing".


So:
"Why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game, similar to Michigan and Washington?"
The single most important issue in creating a championship level squad is to get consistent efficient productivity out of the QB spot - whether it be a dual-threat guy like the kid at Alabama, a pure passer like the kid at Washington, or a "do your job" guy like the QB at Michigan.
PSU had that type of efficient productivity for a couple years w McSorley - and damn near broke through to the MNC games (despite horrendous line play and poor depth due to the sanctions). That was also the last time PSU seemed to have quality QB coaching.
What you say makes a ton of sense. Thanks!

is Frank Reich still looking for a job?

QB is definitely key position as we have seen time and time again how offenses click or not under diff QBs. No QB has improved under Franklin and explains why Hack' was better under O'Brien and then seemed to regress under Franklin.
 
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BiochemPSU

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my standard three for PSU have always been:
1. Lack of elite QB play.
2. Lack of elite interior d line play.
3. Poor coaching/philosophy on the offensive side of the ball and an abandonment of reasonable in-game management when the other team isn’t UMass.

now I can add:
4. lack of portal success.
5. Too many looses to the big two, which has lead to what I believe, is a losers mentality in the locker room, in the portal, and in the recruiting trail.
 

JWB389

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Don't discount the COVID 6th year of eligibilty. I think teams right now are carrying a lot more experience than us because of the extra year. Not necessarily 6th year guys, but guys that would have otherwise moved on. We're lucky to get 3 years out of guys. Others get 5. Our 6th year guy, Clifford probably saved our bacon in '22.
 

Catch1lion

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I would have to say that when I was the hungriest, I worked the hardest. I like to think I still work hard, but no where near as hard as when I wasn't completely sure where my next dollar was coming from. Part of the trade off is experience, and improved judgement that has allowed me to work smarter. A long term high pay contract has to lead to complacency in almost everyone.
 
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Anon1704132623

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Allar is competent but he’s slow. He has a strong arm but he doesn’t use it effectively oftentimes. The lack of interceptions is a misleading statistic. He holds onto the ball too long and he often doesn’t find the open receiver, or he doesn’t throw when they are open. He’s too careful. It’s not the receivers that make him look bad - it’s him that makes the receivers look bad by not finding them AT THE RiGHT TIME. He needs to speed up his game to be more effective.
 
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PSUFTG2

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Allar is competent but he’s slow. He has a strong arm but he doesn’t use it effectively oftentimes. The lack of interceptions is a misleading statistic. He holds onto the ball too long and he often doesn’t find the open receiver, or he doesn’t throw when they are open. He’s too careful. It’s not the receivers that make him look bad - it’s him that make the receivers look bad by not finding them AT THE RiGHT TIME. He needs to speed up his game to be more effective.
Aside from the freaks like Peyton Manning (for obvious reasons), I expect that not 1 in 100 high school hot-shot quarterbacks come into D1 able to play at the speed and with the anticipation necessary to be successful at that level.

That generally takes significant work with very capable coaches (and even then, it often times never comes to fruition).
 

PSUJam

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This is a serious question…..Why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game, similar to Michigan and Washington? Similar to Pennsylvania, the states of Michigan and Washington are not fertile recruiting grounds. In addition, both Michigan and Washington are not bringing in Top 5 or Top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out. Both schools don’t have fantastic facilities, they have average to good facilities like Penn State. Both schools are not doling out multi-millions in NIL, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington are not warm weather environments, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington have proved that you don’t have to be an SEC team to get to the National Championship Game.

So again, why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game? Is Penn State struggling or failing in Coaching, Culture, Player Development, or what, as compared to Michigan and Washington?
We were virtually neck and neck with Michigan pre Covid when we traded wins and losses back and forth every few years then something happened and Michigan suddenly pulled way ahead. I wonder what the change was?
 
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Blair10

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This is a serious question…..Why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game, similar to Michigan and Washington? Similar to Pennsylvania, the states of Michigan and Washington are not fertile recruiting grounds. In addition, both Michigan and Washington are not bringing in Top 5 or Top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out. Both schools don’t have fantastic facilities, they have average to good facilities like Penn State. Both schools are not doling out multi-millions in NIL, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington are not warm weather environments, similar to Penn State. Michigan and Washington have proved that you don’t have to be an SEC team to get to the National Championship Game.

So again, why can’t Penn State get to the National Championship Game? Is Penn State struggling or failing in Coaching, Culture, Player Development, or what, as compared to Michigan and Washington?

Without a doubt it’s the Head Coach game day capabilities. In addition, the coaching gap extends especially to the offense side.

Penn State’s defense under Manny Diaz did reach a CFP elite level.

However, on the offense side, Penn State has only had an explosive offense under Joe Moorhead. Outside of Moorhead, the other OCs were either underwhelming or they were fired for poor performance. Firing 3 offensive coordinators over 10 years has been a huge problem.
 

Madsol

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We were virtually neck and neck with Michigan pre Covid when we traded wins and losses back and forth every few years then something happened and Michigan suddenly pulled way ahead. I wonder what the change was?
I've been wondering this for 3 years. Michigan and Harbaugh were left for dead after the 2020 season. Now they're in the CFP championship game, they've won the B1G 3 years in a row, beaten OSU 3 years in a row and haven't lost a B1G game since mid-2021. I give no weight to the whole sign stealing scandal. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But even if they did, that alone can't explain their amazing turnaround. What happened? And can it happen here?
 

mr.michigan

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We were virtually neck and neck with Michigan pre Covid when we traded wins and losses back and forth every few years then something happened and Michigan suddenly pulled way ahead. I wonder what the change was?
JJ Mccarthy, Blake Corum, Junior Colson, Dax Hill, Donovan Edwards, Aiden Hutchinson, David Ojabo, Zack Zinter?... ahhh, you get the picture
 

PSUJam

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I've been wondering this for 3 years. Michigan and Harbaugh were left for dead after the 2020 season. Now they're in the CFP championship game, they've won the B1G 3 years in a row, beaten OSU 3 years in a row and haven't lost a B1G game since mid-2021. I give no weight to the whole sign stealing scandal. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But even if they did, that alone can't explain their amazing turnaround. What happened? And can it happen here?
If you can't see that knowing live time during the game exactly what exact call on offense and defense can do I'm probably wasting my time posting this.

Jim has been pushing the boundaries of NCAA rules since starting at Michigan. Recruiting during Covid when everyone else was honest and didn't gave him a decided advantage. Maybe it was only a key recruit or 3, but that can turn a team around if it's a big need. Combine that with cheating during games to beat tOSU and dominate every game then recruits look at UM as a powerhouse and the program starts becoming a machine. Add to that they had a strong NIL initiative raising $135K to pay to bring back guys that could go the NFL last year and there you go.

Here's some examples before the Covid recruiting. Remember, he missed 6 games this year because of 2 different infractions. Do you think the NCAA is going to put up with that if he wins a National Championship?




The trips to South Africa and Brazil never happened. You get the point.
 
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Nits74

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Develop a quarterback who can play at an elite level, get the receivers back to the level PSU had even just a couple years ago, develop offensive linemen who can at least be more consistent in holding blocks and getting to the second level against our best opponents, and we will be making a run for the national championship.
Sounds like we're right on the doorstep.
 

psu31trap

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Allar is competent but he’s slow. He has a strong arm but he doesn’t use it effectively oftentimes. The lack of interceptions is a misleading statistic. He holds onto the ball too long and he often doesn’t find the open receiver, or he doesn’t throw when they are open. He’s too careful. It’s not the receivers that make him look bad - it’s him that makes the receivers look bad by not finding them AT THE RiGHT TIME. He needs to speed up his game to be more effective.

Allar will improve next year. With that said, the starting QB job should be a fair and open competition. From what I saw in his limited playing time Beau Pribula outplayed Allar in key games, what he lacked in arm strength he made up with speed and versatility.