Why can't Penn State get over the 'hump?

[Alphalion75]

Good read.

Georgia, Now Maybe Washington: 2 Recent Penn State Bowl Opponents Have Raced Past Nittany Lions Toward Title Dreams

The problem with Penn State football is that there is no single answer to why the Nittany Lions can't quite get over the hump. Penn State is not a program

www.statecollege.com

 

[Midnighter]

Good read.

Georgia, Now Maybe Washington: 2 Recent Penn State Bowl Opponents Have Raced Past Nittany Lions Toward Title Dreams

The problem with Penn State football is that there is no single answer to why the Nittany Lions can't quite get over the hump. Penn State is not a program

www.statecollege.com

Anecdotally, half the fan base doesn’t believe this program is, has been, or has the potential to be elite since the late 80’s and are fine with 10-3, 11-2 and a good bowl. If your fans don’t care or want to take the next step (which could involve disrupting the predictability of each ‘very good’ year because you change coaches), why would the administration care? Anyway….

 

[Alphalion75]

Anecdotally, half the fan base doesn’t believe this program is, has been, or has the potential to be elite since the late 80’s and are fine with 10-3, 11-2 and a good bowl. If your fans don’t care or want to take the next step (which could involve disrupting the predictability of each ‘very good’ year because you change coaches), why would the administration care? Anyway….

Agreed. I live in Georgia. The Dawg fanbase is fervent and are all in for winning national championships. Mark Richt was a popular, admired coach and had better success than Franklin. Richt was HC for 15 years, winning 2 SEC championships and 5 division championships. But there was no hesitation to make a change to move the program forward.

 

[Midnighter]

Agreed. I live in Georgia. The Dawg fanbase is fervent and are all in for winning national championships. Mark Richt was a popular, admired coach and had better success than Franklin. Richt was HC for 15 years, winning 2 SEC championships and 5 division championships. But there was no hesitation to make a change to move the program forward.

The funny thing is prior to Kirby Smart, Georgia was a less successful overall program than Penn State historically. Their last/only NC was 1980 (they also claim 1942) and they have fewer wins all time. They got tired of ‘very good’ year after year and did something about it. We won’t.

 

[HappyValley1]

The funny thing is prior to Kirby Smart, Georgia was a less successful overall program than Penn State historically. Their last/only NC was 1980 (they also claim 1942) and they have fewer wins all time. They got tired of ‘very good’ year after year and did something about it. We won’t.

When the fans who demand national titles put their money where their mouth is in regards to NIL and stop acting like children we will take the next step.

 

[Midnighter]

When the fans who demand national titles put their money where their mouth is in regards to NIL and stop acting like children we will take the next step.

What is Washington’s NIL effort? Sorry - not convinced NiL is the issue.

 

[Alphalion75]

The funny thing is prior to Kirby Smart, Georgia was a less successful overall program than Penn State historically. Their last/only NC was 1980 (they also claim 1942) and they have fewer wins all time. They got tired of ‘very good’ year after year and did something about it. We won’t.

Agreed.

 

[HappyValley1]

What is Washington’s NIL effort? Sorry - not convinced NiL is the issue.

I’d assume better than our cheap fanbase. Not a lot of reliable data out there as far as exact figures though.

 

[NittanyBuff]

The funny thing is prior to Kirby Smart, Georgia was a less successful overall program than Penn State historically. Their last/only NC was 1980 (they also claim 1942) and they have fewer wins all time. They got tired of ‘very good’ year after year and did something about it. We won’t.

Had this conversation the other day with some guys, people act like Georgia been winning nattys for yrs, they were a decent program no better, worse than 20-25 other programs. Smart and "Recent" success have some blinded.

 

[Midnighter]

I’d assume better than our cheap fanbase. Not a lot of reliable data out there as far as exact figures though.

It goes both ways - A&M and Tennessee have two of the best and aren’t producing either. Probably because their coaches are trash.

 

[Mufasa94]

Article makes it seem PSU and UGA were about equal at that bowl matchup. That isn’t close to the truth, 5-loss PSU jumped multiple teams in “pecking order” to play 3-loss UGA.

Then UGA makes great HC hire in one of the top recruiting areas. Snowball got rolling.

UW might have also made a great HC hire, but their performance difference from PSU is they have had a QB performing like none for PSU since Collins. They’ve done nice, but have just been successful vs. Pac and Texas. I had wished the semis had reversed matchups just to learn more about them. One veteran team will get the glory Monday and the other veteran one an intense heartbreak.

Also, I don’t know that PSU fans are satisfied at this level. The reality is the previous AD gave a ridiculously long and unnecessary extension to the HC that ties their hands for x seasons unless he leaves on his own.

 

[leinbacker]

The funny thing is prior to Kirby Smart, Georgia was a less successful overall program than Penn State historically. Their last/only NC was 1980 (they also claim 1942) and they have fewer wins all time. They got tired of ‘very good’ year after year and did something about it. We won’t.

Yeah, pretty much, it's like we are too modest or even embarrassed to be on the national stage again. Too many just accept our 2 annual beatdowns and go on with a "we have 10 wins, how many other programs would like to have 10 wins". Of course with the new teams, it might become 3 annual beatdowns.

 

[leinbacker]

When the fans who demand national titles put their money where their mouth is in regards to NIL and stop acting like children we will take the next step.

How much do you believe each individual fan should give and what percentage of what they give goes towards "administration" costs? Then there is the question of how well would it be managed - I mean, is it managed much the same way Franklin manages a game?

 

[Woodpecker]

 

[Georgia Peach]

Well Ohio State just landed Alabama's starting center from the portal while we possibly chase a kid who can't get on the field with Wisconsin and lost a lower division OL portal player who had previously committed. There's a symptom of the problem getting over the hump

 

[HappyValley1]

Yeah, pretty much, it's like we are too modest or even embarrassed to be on the national stage again. Too many just accept our 2 annual beatdowns and go on with a "we have 10 wins, how many other programs would like to have 10 wins". Of course with the new teams, it might become 3 annual beatdowns.

Were you crying like this when Joe lost to Michigan for a decade straight and couldn’t beat Iowa?

 

[FTLPSU]

Agreed. I live in Georgia. The Dawg fanbase is fervent and are all in for winning national championships. Mark Richt was a popular, admired coach and had better success than Franklin. Richt was HC for 15 years, winning 2 SEC championships and 5 division championships. But there was no hesitation to make a change to move the program forward.

100% and it was clear the fan base realized Richt hit his ceiling and the fan base wanted to be at the next level-especially with the recruiting classes he obtained (even better than Franklin I believe)

 

[blion72]

Article makes it seem PSU and UGA were about equal at that bowl matchup. That isn’t close to the truth, 5-loss PSU jumped multiple teams in “pecking order” to play 3-loss UGA.

Then UGA makes great HC hire in one of the top recruiting areas. Snowball got rolling.

UW might have also made a great HC hire, but their performance difference from PSU is they have had a QB performing like none for PSU since Collins. They’ve done nice, but have just been successful vs. Pac and Texas. I had wished the semis had reversed matchups just to learn more about them. One veteran team will get the glory Monday and the other veteran one an intense heartbreak.

Also, I don’t know that PSU fans are satisfied at this level. The reality is the previous AD gave a ridiculously long and unnecessary extension to the HC that ties their hands for x seasons unless he leaves on his own.

your point about the UW QB is THE point in the matter. That IS the difference for them. It is also the difference in the game between the 1980's and early 1990's where we were elite. In those days you could get away with strong run game, solid def and game manager QB. That is what UMich took to the semis 2 years ago and got wasted by UGA. That UMich team was probably overall better than this one EXCEPT at QB.

The game is now a QB game to the point that you are not going to win a title with game manager QB and good strength overall. Now you MUST have the QB who can be multi-dimensional and takeover the game. If you don't have that the rest will not get you past being good (i.e. were were elite on DEF this year, very good to great on OL/TE but avg at WR and QB). Put UW QB and WR group on our team this year and we R the national champs.

look what happened with UTenn v Iowa game. UTenn has all the opt outs and have to play with a FR who has no real game experience against an Iowa team intact and eager to win. That QB was THE difference in the game.

 

[PSUAVLNC]

Anecdotally, half the fan base doesn’t believe this program is, has been, or has the potential to be elite since the late 80’s and are fine with 10-3, 11-2 and a good bowl. If your fans don’t care or want to take the next step (which could involve disrupting the predictability of each ‘very good’ year because you change coaches), why would the administration care? Anyway….

1994

 

[Midnighter]

your point about the UW QB is THE point in the matter. That IS the difference for them. It is also the difference in the game between the 1980's and early 1990's where we were elite. In those days you could get away with strong run game, solid def and game manager QB. That is what UMich took to the semis 2 years ago and got wasted by UGA. That UMich team was probably overall better than this one EXCEPT at QB.

The game is now a QB game to the point that you are not going to win a title with game manager QB and good strength overall. Now you MUST have the QB who can be multi-dimensional and takeover the game. If you don't have that the rest will not get you past being good (i.e. were were elite on DEF this year, very good to great on OL/TE but avg at WR and QB). Put UW QB and WR group on our team this year and we R the national champs.

look what happened with UTenn v Iowa game. UTenn has all the opt outs and have to play with a FR who has no real game experience against an Iowa team intact and eager to win. That QB was THE difference in the game.

Washington played in the CFP without Penix a few years ago. With average at best recruiting. Oh right - they had a great coach.

 

[HappyValley1]

Washington played in the CFP without Penix a few years ago. With average at best recruiting. Oh right - they had a great coach.

You forgot to mention…..with average at best competition. Playing OSU and Michigan isn’t the same as playing Utah and USC.

Do you donate to NIL to help close the talent gap for PSU? Or do you spend your energy posting Matt Rhule appreciation threads?

 

[WestSideLion]

Article makes it seem PSU and UGA were about equal at that bowl matchup. That isn’t close to the truth, 5-loss PSU jumped multiple teams in “pecking order” to play 3-loss UGA.

Then UGA makes great HC hire in one of the top recruiting areas. Snowball got rolling.

UW might have also made a great HC hire, but their performance difference from PSU is they have had a QB performing like none for PSU since Collins. They’ve done nice, but have just been successful vs. Pac and Texas. I had wished the semis had reversed matchups just to learn more about them. One veteran team will get the glory Monday and the other veteran one an intense heartbreak.

Also, I don’t know that PSU fans are satisfied at this level. The reality is the previous AD gave a ridiculously long and unnecessary extension to the HC that ties their hands for x seasons unless he leaves on his own.

Bingo. Barbour handcuffed the program…one of her final mismanaged decisions in a long and infamous career.

This discussion is moot for 4-5 more years unless Franklin decides to leave.

 

[Nitt1300]

Interesting new topic.

 

[leinbacker]

Were you crying like this when Joe lost to Michigan for a decade straight and couldn’t beat Iowa?

Yes, but Joe had a record of accomplishments and made PSU a national program. Joe didn’t ***** over and over about his compensation with the threat of leaving.

 

[leinbacker]

your point about the UW QB is THE point in the matter. That IS the difference for them. It is also the difference in the game between the 1980's and early 1990's where we were elite. In those days you could get away with strong run game, solid def and game manager QB. That is what UMich took to the semis 2 years ago and got wasted by UGA. That UMich team was probably overall better than this one EXCEPT at QB.

The game is now a QB game to the point that you are not going to win a title with game manager QB and good strength overall. Now you MUST have the QB who can be multi-dimensional and takeover the game. If you don't have that the rest will not get you past being good (i.e. were were elite on DEF this year, very good to great on OL/TE but avg at WR and QB). Put UW QB and WR group on our team this year and we R the national champs.

look what happened with UTenn v Iowa game. UTenn has all the opt outs and have to play with a FR who has no real game experience against an Iowa team intact and eager to win. That QB was THE difference in the game.

Didn’t Michigan beat Penn State with a strong run game, solid defense, and a game manager QB?

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

You forgot to mention…..with average at best competition. Playing OSU and Michigan isn’t the same as playing Utah and USC.

Do you donate to NIL to help close the talent gap for PSU? Or do you spend your energy posting Matt Rhule appreciation threads?

It's hard to donate to a collective that isn't 100% transparent on what they do with fan donations and to a program that seems to have a totally different take on NIL than those programs that are winning the NIL game. Fix those things and I would consider contributing.

 

[TheBigUglies]

First thing that came to mind when I read the title of the thread.

 

[GrimReaper]

Bingo. Barbour handcuffed the program…one of her final mismanaged decisions in a long and infamous career.

This discussion is moot for 4-5 more years unless Franklin decides to leave.

I'm guilty of overkill when it comes to trashing Ms Excellence (no, I'm not). But in fairness, my understanding is that the contract terms were largely forced on her. Regardless, PSU is stuck with them.

 

[HappyValley1]

Yes, but Joe had a record of accomplishments and made PSU a national program. Joe didn’t ***** over and over about his compensation with the threat of leaving.

The compensation comment is all I needed to know. I’m sorry your frail old white ego can’t handle a successful black head coach being paid market value.

 

[Shadow99]

Washington played in the CFP without Penix a few years ago. With average at best recruiting. Oh right - they had a great coach.

Just for discussion:
Doesn’t necessarily apply this year but Washington’s first playoff appearance was aided by a weak conference. In fact wasn’t that the same year that PSU won the B1G? If so imho Penn State was better and had a much tougher schedule. Even this year when the PAC had a good year, would anyone be concerned about any opponents other than Oregon and Washington?

 

[Midnighter]

Just for discussion:
Doesn’t necessarily apply this year but Washington’s first playoff appearance was aided by a weak conference. In fact wasn’t that the same year that PSU won the B1G? If so imho Penn State was better and had a much tougher schedule. Even this year when the PAC had a good year, would anyone be concerned about any opponents other than Oregon and Washington?

Don’t disagree, but Peterson is a very good coach too. Winning a conference - even a weak one - is a big deal. Sucks that when we did it we sh*t the bed against Pitt and Michigan.

 

[Midnighter]

You forgot to mention…..with average at best competition. Playing OSU and Michigan isn’t the same as playing Utah and USC.

Do you donate to NIL to help close the talent gap for PSU? Or do you spend your energy posting Matt Rhule appreciation threads?

Mostly praying that someone is dumb enough to hire Franklin away. NIL is just another excuse to detract from the real issue - and everyone knows what (who) that is.

 

[GrimReaper]

Mostly praying that someone is dumb enough to hire Franklin away. NIL is just another excuse to detract from the real issue - and everyone knows what (who) that is.

Don't think many are $10mm dumb.

 

[OUIrPSU]

Had this conversation the other day with some guys, people act like Georgia been winning nattys for yrs, they were a decent program no better, worse than 20-25 other programs. Smart and "Recent" success have some blinded.

Even Alabama had an extended period when they were struggling. It happens to every program in every sport regardless of their pedigree.

 

[Midnighter]

It's hard to donate to a collective that isn't 100% transparent on what they do with fan donations and to a program that seems to have a totally different take on NIL than those programs that are winning the NIL game. Fix those things and I would consider contributing.

Fans already contribute - we watch the games and subscribe to cable companies that pay for the revenue generated by ads for networks. We spend money on merchandise. We travel to and spend money on tickets. Now we have to pay the players? Plenty of money at Penn State to pay them. Start by cutting Franklin’s salary.

 

[HappyValley1]

Fans already contribute - we watch the games and subscribe to cable companies that pay for the revenue generated by ads for networks. We spend money on merchandise. We travel to and spend money on tickets. Now we have to pay the players? Plenty of money at Penn State to pay them. Start by cutting Franklin’s salary.

Another dumb salary post. If you want to make the point that the contract was devised in a way that’s great for James and bad for PSU as far as a buyout…..that’s one thing. But “start by cutting Franklins salary” shows exactly who you are. An insecure man/woman who doesn’t understand market value.

 

[GrimReaper]

Even Alabama had an extended period when they were struggling. It happens to every program in every sport regardless of their pedigree.

This is true, but history is no excuse for not taking steps necessary to achieve a program's goals.

I kinda sense that PSU's administration and Franklin are out of "alignment" with what those goals are. Franklin wants to win championships. The administration doesn't care as long as the stadium is sold out and the money rolls in. I believe at some point Franklin will realize that he won't win championships at PSU. That may already have occurred. Where it goes is anyone's guess, but if it ends, it won't be pretty.
'

 

[Omar81]

The compensation comment is all I needed to know. I’m sorry your frail old white ego can’t handle a successful black head coach being paid market value.

You know you’re flailing when you have to resort to the race card . . .

 

[HappyValley1]

You know you’re flailing when you have to resort to the race card . . .

Not really.

 

[OUIrPSU]

This is true, but history is no excuse for not taking steps necessary to achieve a program's goals.

I kinda sense that PSU's administration and Franklin are out of "alignment" with what those goals are. Franklin wants to win championships. The administration doesn't care as long as the stadium is sold out and the money rolls in. I believe at some point Franklin will realize that he won't win championships at PSU. That may already have occurred. Where it goes is anyone's guess, but if it ends, it won't be pretty.
'

I don’t disagree!