Will depending on new offensive coordinator
- Thread starter VFO
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CMS has been the defensive coordinator, don't kid yourself and that's also why the offense has suffered.
Both correct. Hopefully we have an OC that Stoops trusts enough to stay on the defensive side. Our offense was better under Dawson and Brown before Stoops got more heavily involved.
If the offense still isn't looking good under the new guys, it never will.
Some of the posters on this thread seem to think Stoops is the 1st former defensive coordinator to become a head coach. LOL! Bill Belichick, Bill Parcells, Nick Saban, Les Miles, Bret Bielema are former defensive coordinators. Relationships between head coach and coordinators are important. Shannon Dawson never fit right on our coaching staff. He was not Stoops' 1st choice for the job, and he became a divisive figure on our staff. Gran is the guy Stoops always wanted. So I suspect you are right. If the Stoops-Gran relationship doesn't produce winning teams and bowls, then Stoops may not be able to get it done here. But let's give Stoops and Gran a couple of years to show what they can do. In 2017, Stoops should have 19-20 incumbent starters back including a starting junior quarterback and both kickers. That should be Stoops' year. If it isn't, then I doubt he can get it done here.
Guess you have gotten a little bored of being a subtle troll...just giving up now? What that last, 2 days?
Yeah, but it strikes me that coaches who come up on the defensive side tend to run "defensive offenses" behind a power running game. Strong was certainly like that at UofL. Bob Stoops was a defensive guy but when he got his HC gig he immediately embraced an Air Raid offense and has had big offenses ever since. I thought for sure CMS would follow that model. Looking forward to seeing what happens this year.
Peace
Yeah, I know his name has probably helped him a little bit, but I don't think Stoops is a complete idiot. I don't think he was completely happy (an understatement at times, I am sure) with the offense, one reason he brought in an experienced OC that he knows he can work with and trust. Our offenses would have probably had some problems during this rebuilding period regardless of who was in charge, but I think a lot of that is behind us now and Stoops will concentrate a lot more on the defense from now on.
And that should be a plus for both units.
I think Stoops mistake as a first time head coach was hiring young OCs, while maybe on top of all this spread HUNH offenses in college ball today, but not getting his full trust to run the offense. Maybe he couldn't get him at the time, but Gran would have been a great fit for Stoops to start his head coaching career with. Stoops most likely intimidated the young guys with his stare, Gran would have told him to go worry about the defense and run what he wanted. Of course I hope that's the case, Kirby hired a 50 year old+ OC who has been around the block a few times so I hope my theory is correct.
That's what I was hoping for when Mark was hired. The only thing I can think of is you can run the Air Raid in the Big 12 where very little defense is played and you cannot in the SEC where defense is king??
You are correct. Stoops could not get Gran when he first came here. Gran had not been an OC prior but had a long history with Tuberville so he went to UC with Tommy. Worked out great as he was able to team with Hinshaw to create an offensive identity that utilizes the available talent.
I have ZERO concerns about UK's offense going forward.
Exactly what in that post makes me a troll? It's obvious that Stoops lack a lot of the skills that a head coach needs. Having Gran is like having a second head coach. This should give Stoops the time to develop.
Here's my thoughts on Stoops so far. I think he is a very capable definsive coach and that's been proven by his tract record at his previous stops. I believe when he came in he totally intended to run an offense similar to what his brother as and Tim Couch, who was big in on the hiring process, knew just the guy. Enter Brown, who was more picked for Stopps than Stoops actually picking him himself. That's not to say I think Stoops objected to the idea of Brown. Just that they hadn't previously worked together and so they had a learning curve of how to work together that first year. Stoops wanted high powered offense, but not at the expense of his defense. Year 2 we obviously improved and it showed. I believe Stoops appeared more confident in allowing Brown more complete control of the offense. Year 3 was shaping up to be a "big" year but Brown was offered a head coaching job. Can't blame him for accepting and can't blame Stoops for him leaving. In an attempt to not lose ground on what should have been an even more improved offense, and after failing to get Gran, Stoops attempted to hire someone who ran a similar offense so there wouldn't be much drop off. He hired Dawson and they didn't mesh at all. Dawson took out the QB run, IMOP huge mistake, and I really believe that hamstrung Patrick Towels and made him a much less dangerous threat. Kid could run, and ran hard. And seemed to play better after taking a few hits. I think the defense last year was good enough for us to win one of not two more games. And I believe or offense WOULD have been better had Brown stayed. I think last year looks totally different if brown stays and I think we win 2 more games. But he didn't. Came at a really disappointing and unlucky time. I think the staff truly believed they could make the next step and pumped up the season and the offense cost us. Bad hire, and bad fit. This year enter Gran and Hinshaw and I beleieve we are primed to take that next step. I believe the offense looks vastly improved and since the opposing team won't be starting 60-55 yards from our end some every damn series so does our defense which I believe has been much better than the stats show because of field position and offensive defenses and turnovers. Bottom line is just timing. It sucks because UK football was ready to bust open. And it was deflated by what IMOP were unforeseen sercumstances that have left the UK faithful to believe all is the same and nothing has changed. I believe stoops is the right guy and this year he proves it. I say 6 wins and a bowl and a huge upswing going into next season returning almost every one. Srry for the long post. I hate people take last year and point to it and say stoops has failed. He improved the two years before. He faliled last year, and he'd say the same, because he made a bad hire. One that looked good at the time, but turned out to be a bad fit. This year he's got his guy. I'll give him another 2 years before I call him a failure. I think he deserves that. And I think he'll prove to be exactly what we've all hoped for.
Para graphs makes it easier for us to read your thoughts.
Nevertheless, an excellent post. Sure hope 3Bluefever325 is right.
I agree 100%. Just haven't figured out how to do that on my iPhone yet. Embarrassing I know, but true. I took a chance that my overly long, terrible worded, almost assuredly constantly misspelled unparagraphed opinion would convey my message and not ruffle to many feathers. I don't post often for that very reason. Admittedly tho, it's prolly about time I learned how to use the post functions on my iPhone. GBB!
I'm not a sound football mind and maybe completely off base on this but will the change in (air raid) type style to a pro style hinder the short term progress of team? The returning players where recruited to play in the Air raid scheme not the traditional scheme we will be employing this year. Could it mean some of the skill players (ie. WR's) who didn't contribute as much last year be more effective this year?
Head coaches should not really be apart of the playcalling on offense or defense. Part of being a head coach is you have to be ahead of yourself 2 or 3 plays. It's why first time head coaches often bring along guys they trust and have worked under them when they were coordinators. They are going to have the same philosophies and tendencies as the head coach.
First time head coaches often struggle to let go of the reigns. I think Stoops is very guilty of this. He's got to let Eliot run the defense and let Gran run the offense. One thing that was not Stoops' fault was the OC hire the first time around. I like Brown, I think he's a good OC but he was put in place before the head coach was hired. That's tough sledding from the beginning. Dawson was an obvious swing and miss from a philosophical and personality standpoint.
Stoops has to concentrate on managing the team and quit worrying about both sides of the ball during games. That's why you have coordinators.
First time head coaches often struggle to let go of the reigns. I think Stoops is very guilty of this. He's got to let Eliot run the defense and let Gran run the offense. One thing that was not Stoops' fault was the OC hire the first time around. I like Brown, I think he's a good OC but he was put in place before the head coach was hired. That's tough sledding from the beginning. Dawson was an obvious swing and miss from a philosophical and personality standpoint.
Stoops has to concentrate on managing the team and quit worrying about both sides of the ball during games. That's why you have coordinators.
Eddie Gran and Darrin Hinshaw will not only win at Kentucky, but take a good deal of pressure off Mark allowing him to concentrate on all elements head coaches must provide for the program. Eddie and Mark have been friends and coaching colleagues for years. This is not if the program improves, but when.
Just some thoughts that I have....
I agree with 3Bluefever in that Dawson was train wreck. They ran the spread option last year but the QB didn't have the option to run, so guess what??? It's not an option....QB just does inside handoff the RB who has to beat backside end that isn't blocked and who KNOWS the QB isn't going to run. Totally insane and I've never seen anything like it on any level. Checked with a few people on why PT wasn't pulling the ball out and running and was told that it wasn't in Dawson's package. Should have been fired immediately.
As far as Stoops ---- not impressed, except for recruiting. Don't think we ever shadowed UofL's QB last year after he ran for 10,000 yards. Obviously Stoops was a good DC at FSU, well, I'd say most on this board could be a good DC at FSU with that talent. A good coach is one who adapts to his talent level and comes up with schemes based on the talent they have what the opponent is doing. A good coach also prepares for every scenario possible.
This year every phase has to improve and you can improve even if you don't win more games. I hope they win more games, but more importantly, I want to see improvement in everything....special teams, offense, defense, time management. The staff make s a lot of money to be prepared.
As far as a head coach also being to involved, it appears to be working for Petrino. I'm not sure how involved he is with the defense now, but I do know that when Dumervil played at UofL, they couldn't block him in practice but he wasn't starting. Petrino asked the DC why he wasn't starting and the DC said that he didn't line up properly. He said I don't care if he doesn't line up properly, we can't block him. Start him!
I agree with 3Bluefever in that Dawson was train wreck. They ran the spread option last year but the QB didn't have the option to run, so guess what??? It's not an option....QB just does inside handoff the RB who has to beat backside end that isn't blocked and who KNOWS the QB isn't going to run. Totally insane and I've never seen anything like it on any level. Checked with a few people on why PT wasn't pulling the ball out and running and was told that it wasn't in Dawson's package. Should have been fired immediately.
As far as Stoops ---- not impressed, except for recruiting. Don't think we ever shadowed UofL's QB last year after he ran for 10,000 yards. Obviously Stoops was a good DC at FSU, well, I'd say most on this board could be a good DC at FSU with that talent. A good coach is one who adapts to his talent level and comes up with schemes based on the talent they have what the opponent is doing. A good coach also prepares for every scenario possible.
This year every phase has to improve and you can improve even if you don't win more games. I hope they win more games, but more importantly, I want to see improvement in everything....special teams, offense, defense, time management. The staff make s a lot of money to be prepared.
As far as a head coach also being to involved, it appears to be working for Petrino. I'm not sure how involved he is with the defense now, but I do know that when Dumervil played at UofL, they couldn't block him in practice but he wasn't starting. Petrino asked the DC why he wasn't starting and the DC said that he didn't line up properly. He said I don't care if he doesn't line up properly, we can't block him. Start him!
If you knew some of the stuff going on behind the scenes you would not make this statement...
All of us would like to see more than 5 wins. Fans of other teams also want wins. Our 2016 defensive line is very inexperienced, and looks like a problem to me. I see 5 wins in our 2016 schedule, but I think 2017 will be a bowl season for Kentucky.
That's good to hear. Talent and depth at most offensive positions have gotten better. In some cases, a lot better. I think Boom, Ross, Baker, and Conrad will have a breakout 2016 season. I expect Greenwood and Snell to be impact freshmen. On paper, there are still 2 possible areas of concern. Barker is an inexperienced quarterback, and our offensive tackles still have a lot to prove. I believe Barker will get better every week. I'm not sure yet about the tackles.
What you are describing is the best case scenario. It is the scenario I prefer and expect. As I have said on several other threads, I expect 2017 to be Stoops' breakout season as Kentucky's head coach. In 2017, Stoops will have 19-20 starters coming back, plus both kickers. Our personnel in 2017 should rival our personnel in 2007. At some positions, we will have a much better team in 2017 than we had in 2007. Stoops ought to be able to win defining games with his 2017 roster. I think he will. I fully support him. But let's be realistic. If he can't get it done with his 2017 team, it isn't going to get any better.
Possibly true. I certainly don't have a lot of behind the scenes info. I do feel really certain that the offenses that both Brown and Dawson ran were not what they would have ran if they had full control. This is not to say Dawson was brilliant. He certainly wasn't. It's just that you have to trust what you are doing and commit to it. You can't just sort of run a system, you have to totally run it or not.
I don't understand what's the big deal about an offensive coordinator not having full control. The head coach runs the football team. The head coach gets the most credit for success and pays the ultimate price for failure. I understand that Eddie Gran was hired with an intention to give him control the offense, but some people around here have short memories. Brown and Dawson were also supposed to have control of the offense. I'm sure Stoops intends to give Gran a long leash. But at the end of the day, Gran isn't the head coach. When a game is on the line, any head coach worth his contract will be calling the shots or at least making his opinion very clear. Nick Saban is a former defensive coordinator and Lane Kiffin is a former NFL head coach in his own right. But nobody has any doubt who calls the shots at Alabama. Whether Stoops is as effective as Saban is a different question, but the buck always stops with Stoops.
Dawson ran the QB read option without ever intending to run the QB. All that needs to be said there. Brown was a good OC, and Stoops backed way off in year two. Would have backed off even further in year 3, but that never happened. Dawson was a bad hire, and I believe a cancer and ultimately huge downfall to our season last year. Yes, Stoops made the hire so he takes the blame. But Dawson was terrible and the decenssion in the team between offense and defense happened while he was there. Obvious turmoil on our team that wasn't present before or after him. Only points to one thing. It's good he's gone and I think that alone will be a big reason for changes in team chemistry and over all play. It sucks, because I really believe we were primed to make a bowl last year, and would have, had Brown stayed or Gran been the hire instead of Dawson. JMHOP tho.
Except that we should have a lot more depth in 2017. The 07 team had some elite players in starting rolls but not a lot backing them up.
At most positions, we should have more quality depth in 2017 than in 2007. I'm not sure yet whether that will apply to our defensive line. There isn't any point in listing the rosters comparatively. At this point, it just isn't possible to know what if anything Middleton, Dubose, Looney, Cross, Bell, Pringle, Hoskins will give us by then. I think most of these guys are longer term projects, although I hope the juco transfers will be productive quicker.
No one really knows what occurred behind the scenes last year. Much has been said, but much is speculation. In my opinion, we should let the 2015 season and its alleged issues be relegated to the past.
I agree that nobody outside the program knows the specifics for sure. But it isn't speculation that 5 coaches (half the staff) from last year are gone. It isn't speculation to read the tweets of the players who left. It might be speculation to infer that these things happened because of divisions inside our locker room, but it's well founded. I like the way Stoops handled it. Given the upheaval, he has hired new coaches and reset the program's direction remarkably well. It's a learning opportunity for a young head coach, but there isn't much point in acting like nothing happened. That horse is out of the barn.
UKani said: ↑
If you knew some of the stuff going on behind the scenes you would not make this statement... 'QUOTE'
Yes, I love Ukani's inputs and wish he would post more, but this is hard for me to interpret.
If you knew some of the stuff going on behind the scenes you would not make this statement... 'QUOTE'
Yes, I love Ukani's inputs and wish he would post more, but this is hard for me to interpret.
Jauk if you are referencing me above I just want him to tell us more about what went on behind the scenes.