You didn't answer the question or address the data. You also ain't the Georgia football program...
Will Jeff Brohm ever coach at Louisville again?
- Thread starter wilkie01
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Your "data" is a simple conclusion using salary as the main factor. Its good if you want to figure out who's being underpaid based on a single stat but it doesn't do a very good job in telling you who the best coaches are or going into any number of reasons why even though a coach with a worse won/loss percentage might be in tougher situation than a coach with a better one, such as conference affiliation of school stature. I mean your list has Dave Doeren ahead of Bill Snyder and Petrino - that fact alone makes it null and void. I think most NC State fans were hoping he took the UT job and the UT fan base was about to burn the place to the ground when he was rumored.
The list will tell you who's a value based on one stat and their salary not who's actually a good coach.
Well, propose a better performance stat than conference won-lost record, and link a P5 database for it. Coaches can't manipulate that part of their schedule, and conference games are played 50-50 home and away. The ACC has been as tough a football conference over the last four years as any other conference.
Doeren has to play FSU, Clemson, and U of L every year on that schedule. In addition, he's played Miami, Virginia Tech, and Georgia Tech in addition to UNC four times as their crossover opponent. That's 19 of the 32 games on his conference schedule the last four years, and I think that's a pretty fair test. It doesn't really matter whether you or NC State fans like him or not. And Doeren's also ranked high because he's not paid that much, #53 among 64 Power Five conference coaches.
Guys like you are really good with opinions but pretty soft on analysis. If you want your opinions taken seriously, you need to ground them in evidence and not just how you view the world...
Be careful, very careful for what you wish for. CBP coaches in what could be be the absolute best division in all of P5 college football. You ask that he beat Clemson and I ask for the same thing but I ain’t about to put CBP on the “hot seat” until he does. I’ve got news for you, so long as we are at the 8 or 9 game win threshold then I would thnk that CBP will finish his career here in 5 to 7 years. Just my opinion.
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
You can make stats say whatever you want them to say. You would need to look at recruiting rankings, player development, draft picks, won/loss %, quality of opponent, etc. You can't just say "well look at his conference win/loss % and his salary".....
Petrino's ACC record is 21-11.
Of those 21 wins - 13 of them (13-3 vs those 3 teams) are against - Wake, BC, Syracuse and UVA..
The combined conference record of the ACC opponents he beat in:
2017 - 9-23
2016 - 16-32
2015 - 9-31
2014 - 12-28
He has never beaten an ACC opponent that has a winning conference record.
He's 1-10 vs ranked opponents, 1-3 in bowls, lost to UK as a 4 touchdown favorite and has lost to Wake, BC, Houston and UVA while favored.
Nearly all of those stats were also compiled while having the best player in college football and one of the most dynamic talents of the last 30 years.
I'm not trumpeting for his removal or to be on the hot-seat just yet. But I am saying that the idea that some fans could be entertaining the idea of Brohm isn't far fetched right now. He hasn't set the world on the fire since his return.
Petrino's ACC record is 21-11.
Of those 21 wins - 13 of them (13-3 vs those 3 teams) are against - Wake, BC, Syracuse and UVA..
The combined conference record of the ACC opponents he beat in:
2017 - 9-23
2016 - 16-32
2015 - 9-31
2014 - 12-28
He has never beaten an ACC opponent that has a winning conference record.
He's 1-10 vs ranked opponents, 1-3 in bowls, lost to UK as a 4 touchdown favorite and has lost to Wake, BC, Houston and UVA while favored.
Nearly all of those stats were also compiled while having the best player in college football and one of the most dynamic talents of the last 30 years.
I'm not trumpeting for his removal or to be on the hot-seat just yet. But I am saying that the idea that some fans could be entertaining the idea of Brohm isn't far fetched right now. He hasn't set the world on the fire since his return.
Bottom line are wins and losses. And guess what?... All of those other P5 coaches get to play conference cupcakes too. With conference records only, I'm counting SEC coaching wins over LPT--and Petrino in the ACC doesn't even get to count those!
You're cherry picking data to suit your agenda. I'm looking at all of the data...
No it actually helps support it. Look at the two FSU teams he lost to..,the good Winston teams and look at the two FSU teams he beat. The two teams he beat finished a combined 15-9 and one of those wins was his lone win over a ranked opponent in his 11 chances.
One of the "Winston teams" won the national championship IIRC.
And you ain't nowhere close to that team either.
Maybe if Petrino can compete with NFL teams, some fans will be happy...
One of the "Winston teams" won the national championship IIRC.
And you ain't nowhere close to that team either.
Maybe if Petrino can compete with NFL teams, some fans will be happy...
A loss is a loss.
If you want to give him a mulligan on that one that’s fine. We can replace it with the UVA, BC, Houston, UK, Wake, etc losses where UL was the heavy favorite and lost.
Hmmmmmmm, me thinks you doth protest too much. On one hand you say you don’t want to “put CBP on the hot seat” but your arguments do exactly that. You say “a loss is a loss” well on the other hand “a win is a win”. CBP is doing a creditable job and if he continues with his efforts he, and us UofL fans, will be rewarded. The toughest loss on his record was the uahkay loss but I failed to see a single fumble that he was credited for OR a single completed pass that he failed to cover properly. You need to go back to “coaching” school to brush up on your critical comments.
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
The entire purpose of my post was not to throw BP under the bus or call for his job. The purpose of my post was to simply point out the fact that those who think the idea of replacing Petrino is ludicrous should maybe step back and really look at his resume this time around and forget about Petrino 1.0.
Its not an insane idea to pose the question regardless of how serious the intent to replace him is. He's done a decent job but has had enough hiccups and mediocrity that its not out of the question to discuss potential replacements. That's all I was saying.
Its not an insane idea to pose the question regardless of how serious the intent to replace him is. He's done a decent job but has had enough hiccups and mediocrity that its not out of the question to discuss potential replacements. That's all I was saying.
Then you and I have different levels of expectations for the football program. That's not good or bad...thats just the basics of what this little back and forth boils down to then.
"Replacing" him IS ludicrous. For a # of reasons.
His teams have finished ranked every other year. No less than 8 wins each year.
People seem to not appreciate 8 win seasons. It's like they suffer from amnesia, and do not recall the Ron Cooper and Steve Kragthorpe days.
What kind of message does it send to any potential interviewee if you're firing a battle tested guy that puts his teams in the final poll every other year and has not won less than 8 games in a season?
You think a great coach would want to sign up for that kind of job stability?
Of course, if he chooses to leave then we are forced to replace him. That's a bit of a different dynamic. The last guy that followed him did great, amirite?
You implied that I and others are fondly looking at the Petrino of a decade ago as who/what we have now. And that couldn't be further from the truth in my case. I discount just about all of those years for various reasons, and I'm perfectly comfortable debating Petrino based on his performance the last few years. You just present nothing but cherry picked data to do that...
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And again, back to my previous post. I don't disagree with anything you said but as I said in the last post it all depends on your level of expectations and your level of satisfaction. If 8-4 year in and year out keeps you interested and keeps you in your seats then thats perfectly fine and I'm in no position to tell anyone that you're wrong.
Zipp, come one. My whole post started because you hand pick very simple data about wins and salary. Thats the definition of cherry picked data...at least break down the quality of the wins which is what I attempted to do in a rudimentary way. Beating Syracuse is fine, but its not the same as beating NC State which is not the same as beating Florida State which is not the same as beating Clemson. If Petrino goes 8-4 every year but loses to Clemson, FSU, random ranked non-conference opponent and another loss but beats all the Syracuse's, UVAs and Wake's then is that good enough?
All I was saying is look at his record vs good teams, look at who he's beaten. Here's a simple stat for example - he's lost more times as a favorite than he's won as an underdog. Also, he's has more losses to unranked teams than he does wins vs ranked teams.
9 wins twice 8 wins twice. Tied for ACC crown once. That's not 8 wins year in, year out. The program has been in a power 5 league 4 years, and has adapted and been competitive with top tier programs since joining.
UofL produced a H Trophy winner that Petrino coached and recruited. That's some historical stuff. Lamar will go down as a legend.
You're not giving Petrino enough credit.
No, it does not. You are biased vs CBP. Just admit that and you will be fine.
I'm actually not biased against Petrino at all. I really like him and I don't think he should be on the hot seat right now. As I've stated many times on here my only point in all of this is that a lot of people on here either have lower expectations for the program than I do or they haven't really paid attention to some of the warts of Petrino 2.0's resume.
Again...not saying he should be on the hot seat but his 2nd tenure has had a few speed bumps and screw ups that at least make it a topic that isn't totally ludicrous to discuss. From my perspective it appears the idea of Petrino being replaced is equivalent to saying Saban or Meyer should be worried and all I was saying is that if you haven't been disappointed a little bit by his 2nd tenure then you and I just have different views of the program and neither of us are in a place to tell the other they're right or wrong.
You obviously don't understand what cherry picked means... I presented data that apply to 63 other coaches over a four-year time span, and applied it to those coaches/institutions. You pick the games and results you don't like, and apply it only to Petrino. Yours is not a legit analysis, or at least it's incomplete.
When you start filling the holes in it, I'll take your approach more seriously. A good start might be to find at least a few other coaches for comparison. And don't limit yourself to Saban, Swinney, and Meyer. Your coach ain't those guys, and your school ain't Bama, Clemson, or tOSU...
This is my thoughts as well.
Everyone hopes to make the playoff, develop into a consistent playoff contender.
Beat Clemson! Because that's pretty easy to do.
Beat FSU! Beat ND!
But if you beat 2 outta 3 that means they were down so beating them doesn't matter now!
Just be #1. Or be #1 now and then. Reside in the Top 10 always. Or reside in the Top 10 now and then. Just be better than you are. Just because.
There are some real obstacles at UofL that have to factor into expectations - starting point being a lower talent pool state at the HS level in the sport. Lack of tradition, only 4 years of being in a P5 conference. A basketball school for decades.
Now we've gone and terminated our football savvy AD. I guess we REALLY like a challenge around here. So there's that.
And you know I've been critical of BP and concerned about the direction of the program in the past. I just think the concept of even listening to the idea of replacing him is misguided.
You did present data that applied to 63 coaches but all you did was look at conference wins and salary with no regard for the opponents. That's not statistical analysis.
Any moderately capable coach in the country can beat Cuse, Wake, BC, UVA and Kentucky year in and year out that doesn't impress me or stand out at all. What does stand out is his 1-3 bowl record and 1-10 record vs ranked teams.
Basically what you're arguing is that Petrino is great because he beats the teams he should beat most of the time and loses to the teams he's equal to or worse than.
You haven't kept up... I looked at a statistic--conference win %--for every P5 conference coach. That encompasses about two-thirds of their games, splits pretty equally home and away, and is the part of the schedule that's the most consistent and "un-manipulate-able". That is, coaches and schools can't just manufacture victories.
And that statistic, again, is compared among every P5 program. You've picked a handful of games and haven't even made a comparison to ONE school or coach.
I'm also not "arguing" anything...I'm just comparing the numbers. Which I encourage you to do...
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I think Louisville should compete for an ACC title once every 3-4 years or so. Most years should be 8-4/9-3. Once in a while you'll have a rebuild year where you're looking at 7-5 or maybe even 6-6 (I think this coming year is one of those, FSU had one recently so if they're not above it then Louisville isn't either). I'm good with all of that.
Naw....He probably wants Nick Saban or Dabo Swinney.
Because he is so realistic in his expectations and analytical savvy of CFB statistics. Oh my!!!!.Well, fellows 2018 is Coach Bobby Petrino's fifth year as head coach of Cardinal Football. He has had time to build a solid coaching staff and now most of the players are his recruits. There will be no room for excuses this year. It is time to produce. It is time to put up or shut up! We shall see what the quality of his new program has reached against Bama!
Excuses for what? If in the next four years, he simply repeats performance of the last four years, that's OK. He's still among the better coaches and best values (pay for performance) in college football...
Who else is beating Clemson with any regularity? And what are other P5 coaches' bowl records?
Data can be your friend if they support your POV...
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Absolutely ridiculous post. Alabama, are you kidding.
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
I don't want Petrino replaced and I'm not expecting Louisville to beat Alabama or even come within 2 touchdowns of Alabama. What I would like is for at least 8-9 wins this year and for the program to take a big leap forward in 2019 and challenge for a playoff spot.
I feel like I'm having to beat this horse to a pulp but people still keep reading my statements wrong. Petrino has done an admirable job, downright good job in his first 4 years...there have been concerning things that have occurred that would leave some to at least lose a little faith in him. That's all I was saying. His bowl record, his record vs ranked teams, his inability to find a quality DC, his inability to put together a decent defense, insane losses to UVA, UK, BC, absolute beat downs on national tv from Houston, Clemson, NC State, LSU, UGA...when you combine them all are all areas that should at least raise some slight concern as he adjusts to life in the ACC.
What's his signature win or moment during Petrino 2.0? Beating the piss outta FSU .....and then what? Beating a 7 win Notre Dame team?
My purpose was never to call for his head it was only to point out that if you take a step back and look at his body of work over the last 4 years he's beaten nearly all the teams he should have and lost nearly every big test he's faced so the idea that just because "he's doing pretty good" is enough to warrant being ridiculed for even bringing up replacing him is crazy.
I feel like I'm having to beat this horse to a pulp but people still keep reading my statements wrong. Petrino has done an admirable job, downright good job in his first 4 years...there have been concerning things that have occurred that would leave some to at least lose a little faith in him. That's all I was saying. His bowl record, his record vs ranked teams, his inability to find a quality DC, his inability to put together a decent defense, insane losses to UVA, UK, BC, absolute beat downs on national tv from Houston, Clemson, NC State, LSU, UGA...when you combine them all are all areas that should at least raise some slight concern as he adjusts to life in the ACC.
What's his signature win or moment during Petrino 2.0? Beating the piss outta FSU .....and then what? Beating a 7 win Notre Dame team?
My purpose was never to call for his head it was only to point out that if you take a step back and look at his body of work over the last 4 years he's beaten nearly all the teams he should have and lost nearly every big test he's faced so the idea that just because "he's doing pretty good" is enough to warrant being ridiculed for even bringing up replacing him is crazy.
You are comparing apples and kumquats. Silly beyond words as we recruit at different levels in each sport because of how UofL is perceived in each sport. Of course, the goal is to be “Clemson or Alabama” and I believe no one wants that more than CBP but that’s a very steep hill to climb. Question for you, how many schools recruit at the same level as UofL in men’s basketball? Do get my drift here? Hopefully, someday we will recruit as well as the Clemsons, FSUs and Alabamas of the world but that day hasn’t arrived as of yet.
GO CARDS - BEAT EVERYBODY!!! God Bless America!!!
What I want is for Petrino to maintain the status quo with the opportunity to rise above in a given year. And I think he has the talent, coaching ability, and desire to accomplish that. It's not a 2018 or even a 2019 thing.
For a program like ours, you can't reasonably expect anymore than that...only unreasonably.
For a program like ours, you can't reasonably expect anymore than that...only unreasonably.
I see us put teams on the field that lose games for teachable reasons rather than just lack of talent. If 8-4 is the best we can hope for that really isn't that enjoyable to watch. I'd love to be wrong but right now I just see a program that has stagnated and 8-9 win seasons will be the ceiling rather than the norm. Fans are already making excuses for 6 wins next year because the schedule is hard. If Petrino is the genius he gets credit for being shouldn't we be better than that?
The best chef in the world can’t make filet mignonette out of strip steak.
We could hire Nick Saban here, and he’ll not be as successful as he is at Bama. Because we ain’t Bama, and we don’t have tons of 4&5 star recruits in our back yard. Like FSU, Clemson and Miami.
We’re doing better, but it’s not like those guys.
That’s just the way it is. Recruiting is the killer for us. 8-9 wins will be very good most years.
Like it or not