Will the football Cats, be successful this year!? If so how!? If not why?

[LowCountryCat]

Good point. UK could go 6-6 and if they get blown out by 40 points by Bama, UGA, UF and UT and they barely squeak out wins against everyone else and for USC, Vandy, and others ending up being far, far worse than expected, calling that type of season a success could be a debatable thing. Also if UK could go 5-7 but Vandy, USC, Miss St and Mizzou end up being a lot better than expected and UK may drop one or two there by a field goal and UK has 4th quarter leads or is tied with UGA, UF and UT but ends up losing close games. They lose but are in all of the games with the top teams. That type of 5-7 could be called a success.

Is it only the W/L record regardless of how the team looks and competes or is it totally in how well they play, such as losing some close games but standing toe to toe with top teams?

The term "success" isn't a fixed thing, success can be measured several different ways.

None of those examples would be considered a 'success' in my book.

Go 8-5 including a bowl win and a win over Florida, and I'll sing CMS's praises. 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC and it's mediocrity.

 

[allabouttheUK]

Vandy faded because Franklin left. Period. But they did whip us 40-0 when he was there. That's something we will NEVER live down. Getting destroyed by Vandy.

And next year after we go 5-7 this year you'll be saying, just give him a few more years blah blah blah.

It's a repeating cycle and I've been saying this since Joker: As long as Barney is here we won't have a program like Ole Miss, MSU, or even Oregon for that matter. Barney just doesn't care about football. He had to be dragged across the finish line to agree to the improvements. He had to be talked into hiring Cal for crying out loud.

I'm sick of hearing "It just takes time" when other schools are proving that it DOESN'T. And improvements mean nothing when a) Recruiting is still ranked last in the SEC and b) the coach proves he doesn't have what it takes to "coach them up." I can do the math, and it's not going to work out. I correctly predicted that Joker wouldn't last more than three years. I got the same nonsense back then too - "it just takes time, give him time, we need time, blah blah blah." I stuck to my guns and I was right. Joker was a failure.

I'm telling you Stoops ISN'T going to be successful. That doesn't make me happy. But somebody's got to say it. I'm not going to sit quietly and be gaslighted.

I wanted the joke gone just like you did, although I wasn't posting here, it was clear after year two that he didn't have what it takes.

Who was our coach when Vandy took us behind the woodshed?

Like I said about OleMiss and MSU, they have some luxuries that we don't and never will have, and those things do matter to an extent.

The facilities that we have now never would have happened if not for Stoops. Yeah, last year was a cluster, the staff was in disarray and coachs coaching out of position. This year the staff looks better and guys are coaching what they know.

I'll start judging him this year, and be very critical next year. My reasoning is it takes four years for a program that was in the shape it was to develop depth and talent. In my lifetime we have never been two or three deep with adequate talent. That will start showing this year.

Look at Texas, great program, great history, unlimited resources. How are they doing now? It's not as easy as we want it to be. I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but it takes time for a program like ours.

 

[LowCountryCat]

I wanted the joke gone just like you did, although I wasn't posting here, it was clear after year two that he didn't have what it takes.

I knew that before he even took the field his first year. I went on the Joe B. and Denny show and said it on the air. Before the first season.

Who was our coach when Vandy took us behind the woodshed?

Who could we have hired, that beat us with both UofL and WKU?

Like I said about OleMiss and MSU, they have some luxuries that we don't and never will have, and those things do matter to an extent.

There are many other examples, and you're just moving the goalposts. You asked for examples and I gave them to you. Now you're quibbling and making excuses. Getting the RIGHT COACH cures everything. You really think Saban couldn't win here? Don't make me laugh.

The facilities that we have now never would have happened if not for Stoops. Yeah, last year was a cluster, the staff was in disarray and coachs coaching out of position. This year the staff looks better and guys are coaching what they know.

The facilities wouldn't have happened if the fans hadn't revolted. Now you and yours want to revise history. Stoops sold Barney from day one because Barney's an idiot. Then he suckered him into that extension halfway through what ended up being a 5-7 season by scheduling cupcakes early.

I'll start judging him this year, and be very critical next year. My reasoning is it takes four years for a program that was in the shape it was to develop depth and talent. In my lifetime we have never been two or three deep with adequate talent. That will start showing this year.

After this season you'll move the goalposts again. Mark it.

Look at Texas, great program, great history, unlimited resources. How are they doing now? It's not as easy as we want it to be. I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but it takes time for a program like ours.

Sorry, not acceptable. UofL's been to numerous bowls, including BCS bowls, while we sit around in the off season. Their AD gets it. Barney doesn't. The right coach could turn things around. Instead, Barney does the hat trick of hiring an unproven coach on the cheap, dumping money on facilities, and giving the man an extension. The only thing Barney's good at is spending other peoples' money.

 

[John Henry]

We may know the answer to this question late Saturday night. If we lose to Southern Miss or barely squeak by it will be difficult to be optimistic. A win by more than two touchdowns gives me hope for the season. As to why. Well our ???? mark defensive line is a major concern and could forecast a terrible year. Our history shows we can not contain an option quarterback. In fact we have trouble with most quarterbacks and have made third string quarterbacks look like All Americans against us. They most often fade into oblivion their next game, never to be heard from again. Viewing things optimistically we have several SEC quality running backs, a solid TE and some good wide receivers. That should mean points on the board. We have solid defensive backs so it all comes down to the opponents running game. Can we stop it? We will know Saturday night.

 

[allabouttheUK]

I knew that before he even took the field his first year. I went on the Joe B. and Denny show and said it on the air. Before the first season.

Who could we have hired, that beat us with both UofL and WKU?

There are many other examples, and you're just moving the goalposts. You asked for examples and I gave them to you. Now you're quibbling and making excuses. Getting the RIGHT COACH cures everything. You really think Saban couldn't win here? Don't make me laugh.

The facilities wouldn't have happened if the fans hadn't revolted. Now you and yours want to revise history. Stoops sold Barney from day one because Barney's an idiot. Then he suckered him into that extension halfway through what ended up being a 5-7 season by scheduling cupcakes early.

After this season you'll move the goalposts again. Mark it.

Sorry, not acceptable. UofL's been to numerous bowls, including BCS bowls, while we sit around in the off season. Their AD gets it. Barney doesn't. The right coach could turn things around. Instead, Barney does the hat trick of hiring an unproven coach on the cheap, dumping money on facilities, and giving the man an extension. The only thing Barney's good at is spending other peoples' money.

That's fine, glad you were ahead of the curve on Joker.

I'm not making excuses, Prime. I'm telling you what most people willingly admit. There are things that matter in recruiting. You can't just say, "hey kid, your gonna come play here." Tradition, Location, Facilities, all that matters. We have always been lacking in all three, now we have one on our side. One we can never fix, but hopefully the other will come with the building process. Last time I checked Kentucky wasn't over flowing with D1 SEC talent, so we gotta try and grab kids from other states. That's just how it is.

Are you saying Stoops had nothing to do with the facilities upgrade?

I get that you despise the man, and want instant success, but that's not how it works. We are Tennessee that can rebound in a couple of years with the right hire. We have always lacked in too many other areas.

Hell, people thought Bill Curry could do it here because he did it at Bama, how'd that turn out. What makes you think Saban, or anyone close to him would take the job the way the program was? We have been turned down by many coach's through three coaching changes.

I'm not moving goalposts on anything. I will start judging this year, and next year I expect a much MUCH better football team and a 4-4 or better SEC record. This year I just want to get to a bowl for the practice and recruiting benefits.

"dumping money on facilities" Sounds like you are against the upgrades, am I wrong?

If you are using UofL as your barometer for success that is part of the problem. Look at everything that goes on there. Investigations into the school and their spending of money, boosters being questioned, entire university in turmoil, many Jason Hatchers on their squad and worse. An unethical, sorry excuse for a man as a head coach. They don't recruit great, so they take guys that get kicked out of other programs...that's what you want?

 

[LowCountryCat]

That's fine, glad you were ahead of the curve on Joker.

I'm not making excuses, Prime. I'm telling you what most people willingly admit. There are things that matter in recruiting. You can't just say, "hey kid, your gonna come play here." Tradition, Location, Facilities, all that matters. We have always been lacking in all three, now we have one on our side. One we can never fix, but hopefully the other will come with the building process. Last time I checked Kentucky wasn't over flowing with D1 SEC talent, so we gotta try and grab kids from other states. That's just how it is.

Are you saying Stoops had nothing to do with the facilities upgrade?

I get that you despise the man, and want instant success, but that's not how it works. We are Tennessee that can rebound in a couple of years with the right hire. We have always lacked in too many other areas.

Hell, people thought Bill Curry could do it here because he did it at Bama, how'd that turn out. What makes you think Saban, or anyone close to him would take the job the way the program was? We have been turned down by many coach's through three coaching changes.

I'm not moving goalposts on anything. I will start judging this year, and next year I expect a much MUCH better football team and a 4-4 or better SEC record. This year I just want to get to a bowl for the practice and recruiting benefits.

"dumping money on facilities" Sounds like you are against the upgrades, am I wrong?

If you are using UofL as your barometer for success that is part of the problem. Look at everything that goes on there. Investigations into the school and their spending of money, boosters being questioned, entire university in turmoil, many Jason Hatchers on their squad and worse. An unethical, sorry excuse for a man as a head coach. They don't recruit great, so they take guys that get kicked out of other programs...that's what you want?

You continue to mischaracterize my arguments. It's impossible to find a common frame of reference with someone who is either dishonest or doesn't pay enough attention to my statements to properly construct an argument. So I'm not going to respond to your numerous accusatory, flawed assumptions. It's just not worth my time. And this is the second time you've done that.

Your arguments are:
1. Our state doesn't have enough talent - Neither does Oregon or Idaho. Mississippi? Please.
2. We lack in too many other areas
3. Too many coaches have turned down the job - that's Barney's fault. He screwed Papa Brooks and word got out.
4. We lack in tradition - Tell that to Oregon. Tell that to Vandy. Tell that to Boise State. Tell that to MSU. Tell that to Michigan State.
5. We lack in location - how so? Climate? Tell that to Ohio schools. Michigan. Their weather is worse.
6. We lack in facilities - Didn't you JUST NOW make the argument that we spent a bunch of money on facilities? And how's recruiting going? Oh yeah. Last in the SEC. Still.

If everything you say is true, then UK should shut down the football program.

 

[allabouttheUK]

You continue to mischaracterize my arguments. It's impossible to find a common frame of reference with someone who is either dishonest or doesn't pay enough attention to my statements to properly construct an argument. So I'm not going to respond to your numerous accusatory, flawed assumptions. It's just not worth my time. And this is the second time you've done that.

Your arguments are:
1. Our state doesn't have enough talent - Neither does Oregon or Idaho. Mississippi? Please.
2. We lack in too many other areas
3. Too many coaches have turned down the job - that's Barney's fault. He screwed Papa Brooks and word got out.
4. We lack in tradition - Tell that to Oregon. Tell that to Vandy. Tell that to Boise State. Tell that to MSU. Tell that to Michigan State.
5. We lack in location - how so? Climate? Tell that to Ohio schools. Michigan. Their weather is worse.
6. We lack in facilities - Didn't you JUST NOW make the argument that we spent a bunch of money on facilities? And how's recruiting going? Oh yeah. Last in the SEC. Still.

If everything you say is true, then UK should shut down the football program.

Not sure what I miss-characterized. I'm a very honest person, and yes I have paid attention to your statements. I have accused you of anything since the first post which I apologized to you for. I have asked you questions, if you consider that accusatory, that's on you and I can't/won't apologize for looking for clarification.

1. Oregon is lucky enough to have the founder of Nike fund their program. They broke through because of facilities and trend setting uniforms to attract talent. Mississippi is and an area 150 outside of is LOADED with talent. Mississippi is hurting for talent in their high school system.
2. We lack in a lot of areas, yes. Doesn't take a blind squirrel to see that.
3. Brooks wouldn't have been here had Barney not begged him to come, Brooks was retired...think about that for a second. I love Brooks and respect all he did, but why did it have to come to begging a retired coach to take the job?
Partly Barneys fault, he can't make someone take the job.
4. See above on Oregon. You keep using Vandy, when Vandy is damn near exactly like us. You would hate us if we were Boise State, beat up on week teams to get to a bowl. MSU and Michigan State, slow and steady builds, they've created consistency. How long did it take Michigan State to get where they are now?
5. Location...we play in the SOUTHEASTERN conference and are the northern most school. Yes, location is a negative for us when recruiting the south, not so much when recruiting the north.
6. Yeah, facilities are FINALLY up to snuff. We can check that off our list of things holding us back. I was and always have been for upgrading facilities, not against it. Recruiting is better than it has been in my lifetime. It's the freakin SEC, we could be dead last in the conference and have a top 25-30 class.

I LOVE Kentucky football. I want a consistent program, with a solid foundation, and high quality coachs and kids. I don't want a program that wins because of athletic drug dealers, women beaters, etc...we have to reach the middle before we can ever realistically get to the top.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Not sure what I miss-characterized. I'm a very honest person, and yes I have paid attention to your statements. I have accused you of anything since the first post which I apologized to you for. I have asked you questions, if you consider that accusatory, that's on you and I can't/won't apologize for looking for clarification.

1. Oregon is lucky enough to have the founder of Nike fund their program. They broke through because of facilities and trend setting uniforms to attract talent. Mississippi is and an area 150 outside of is LOADED with talent. Mississippi is hurting for talent in their high school system.
2. We lack in a lot of areas, yes. Doesn't take a blind squirrel to see that.
3. Brooks wouldn't have been here had Barney not begged him to come, Brooks was retired...think about that for a second. I love Brooks and respect all he did, but why did it have to come to begging a retired coach to take the job?
Partly Barneys fault, he can't make someone take the job.
4. See above on Oregon. You keep using Vandy, when Vandy is damn near exactly like us. You would hate us if we were Boise State, beat up on week teams to get to a bowl. MSU and Michigan State, slow and steady builds, they've created consistency. How long did it take Michigan State to get where they are now?
5. Location...we play in the SOUTHEASTERN conference and are the northern most school. Yes, location is a negative for us when recruiting the south, not so much when recruiting the north.
6. Yeah, facilities are FINALLY up to snuff. We can check that off our list of things holding us back. I was and always have been for upgrading facilities, not against it. Recruiting is better than it has been in my lifetime. It's the freakin SEC, we could be dead last in the conference and have a top 25-30 class.

I LOVE Kentucky football. I want a consistent program, with a solid foundation, and high quality coachs and kids. I don't want a program that wins because of athletic drug dealers, women beaters, etc...we have to reach the middle before we can ever realistically get to the top.

Spoken like a true Barney/Stoops apologist. You'll defend them to the death! Viva El Coach-o Stoops-o!

 

[allabouttheUK]

Spoken like a true Barney/Stoops apologist. You'll defend them to the death! Viva El Coach-o Stoops-o!

How so?

Since you didn't understand my stance on things, I think I made the perfectly clear, and all you have is "barney apologist"? What would you do Prime? You have complete control of the program for 2 years...how you gonna change it? You only get to years to give me a top tier SEC program, because that's all it should take, right?

 

[EliteBlue]

You asked what progress is, and I told you and you got snarky and bitchy with the truthful answer, hell grab a dictionary and take a look, I'm not lying.

Please provide that list of SEC schools that have reached and maintained success in three years or less, I want to see all the similarities that they have with UK.

Yeah, Cal and the basketball program have been a disappointment. 1 title in 8 years with the amount of talent that he brings in every year....that's failure. I still enjoy watching them, but for people to expect ANYONE to walk into the football program and turn it around as fast as Cal did the basketball program...lol...get a clue.

That's not failure. Would we like to have 2 more? Of course. Should we have at least 1 more over that span? Yes. But we have 8 total in our entire history. The best team usually comes out on top in football. That's not always the case in basketball. All you can ask for is to be a top 4 team every year and hope to catch some breaks along the way.

 

[LowCountryCat]

How so?

Since you didn't understand my stance on things, I think I made the perfectly clear, and all you have is "barney apologist"? What would you do Prime? You have complete control of the program for 2 years...how you gonna change it? You only get to years to give me a top tier SEC program, because that's all it should take, right?

There you go again, mischaracterizing my statements. I never said you only get two years. I said other programs have done it so why are we saying it should take 7-10?

As to what I'd do, I'd hire an AD who gave a crap about football and didn't sneer at the fans. That would probably solve the problem for the most part.

 

[allabouttheUK]

There you go again, mischaracterizing my statements. I never said you only get two years. I said other programs have done it so why are we saying it should take 7-10?

As to what I'd do, I'd hire an AD who gave a crap about football and didn't sneer at the fans. That would probably solve the problem for the most part.

I never said you did, Prime. Hell I don't agree with 7-10 either. I think year 6 is the make or break year.

I agree with getting an AD who cares about football as well, but you and I both know that the powers that be won't let that happen at the expense of their beloved football program.

You and I agree, bud, I swear!

 

[allabouttheUK]

That's not failure. Would we like to have 2 more? Of course. Should we have at least 1 more over that span? Yes. But we have 8 total in our entire history. The best team usually comes out on top in football. That's not always the case in basketball. All you can ask for is to be a top 4 team every year and hope to catch some breaks along the way.

I used that for comparison purposes. To show that you can't compare apples and oranges. The basketball program and football program are polar opposites in every single way. The problem is we have fans of both, and some that see results in basketball after down years and expect the same in football (not directed at you PRIME).

 

[Comebakatz3]

I really wonder how people would feel about Stoops had our schedules been more balanced the last two years. What if our schedule looked like this in 2014:

UT Martin W
Louisville L
Florida L
Vandy W
LSU L
South Carolina W
MSU L
ULM W
Mizzou L
Ohio W
Tennessee L
Georgia L

Would people be as upset with this as they were with losing 6 straight? I am sure none will admit that there would be a difference, but I think there would have been. I think you wouldn't feel quite so bad as we did knowing that we quickly got to 5 wins and then couldn't pull off getting that all important 6th with 6 games left.

 

[WeepNoMore]

To me it all boils down to fundamentals!!!!

The athleticism and, to at least some degree, the much needed depth seem to be there. IMHO, none of Coach Stoops's teams have been fundamentally sound (missed assignments, dropped passes, poor tackling, passes into the dirt or badly overthrown, key unnecessary penalties, poor coaching decisions, etc. I could go on and on.). I have seen very little, if any, improvement fundamental wise since the Coach Phillips era. In fact, IMHO, last year's team was more unsound fundamentally than any team in the Coach Phillips era.

If we play and coach sound fundamental football, then 8-4 or above. If we continue playing and coaching without being fundamentally sound, then 5-6 or below.

 

[truebluewildcat_rivals34254]

Success this year will be accomplishing a few things

1) Bowl Game...6-7 wins...obviously...

2) competing with the upper echelon opponents...absolutely have to compete with the big boys for 4 quarters...no blow outs...

3) a big time program boosting win...florida, UGA, or Bama...we need a shocker on the espn highlight reel...

4) Austin Peay, New Mexico St don't need to be within 3-4 TDs...Vandy needs to be at least a 17-20 pt win...

5) need to see sec caliber play making from our key guys...

6) on the same token as #5, we need to be able to say "he could play and contribute significantly at florida, uga, bama, etc..." about a handful of players...