Without looking......does anyone know who the top rated SEC team is in Kenpom currently?

Jul 30, 2024
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Thanks, that's great work. Calipari no doubt coach of the decade (2010) looking at these numbers, and then a steep fall from grace. I really wonder if a title in either 2015 or 2017, which were entirely in the realm of probability, would have bought him this entire decade, or if the steep fall after 2019 still got us riled up. Or maybe he wins in 2015 and goes 10 deep five stars every year and builds an unstoppable machine like CBB has never known (Wooden's players got paid more than NBA players, at a time when nobody else was getting paid, his titles mean jack ****).

I'm also seeing that this team, the one I absolutely detest, is a few made 3 pointers away from meeting the criteria. Problem is I don't think it's luck causing them to miss those 3 pointers, it's that they are bad players. Saturday, then the SEC opener (with JQ looking like he will play) will pretty much dictate the rest of this season I think. 1-1 with competitive showings in both would be reason for optimism.
I think if Calipari had won the title in 2015, 2017 or 2019, we’d have kept him for much longer. It was the defense that fell off and kept us from being contenders, not the offense as you can see by the numbers.

As for this year’s team, I don’t have a crystal ball and I’m not great at predicting games —- but I’d be shocked if we didn’t improve shooting the ball. As much crap as Pope has gotten for bringing in “non-shooters”, the catch and shoot and spot up numbers were much, much higher last year for many of the players. I believe morale is a concern, as is minutes continuity —- guys have no rhythm and we can’t find the right groups to build it either. Add the injuries and it’s a disaster. I can’t predict a top 5 seed anymore, which is why I’m already serving the Hello Kitty punishment, but I still don’t think it would be out of the realm of possibility to turn the corner at some point. The problem is I don’t think the turnaround is going to begin on Saturday—I think this is another bad matchup for us, until we have a healthy frontcourt. St. John’s by five.
 
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kyjeff1

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Sep 8, 2012
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Y’all haven’t been the worst over the years tbh. I remember our Final Four team with junior Jamal Mashburn taking their first L at Vandy and i think it was McCaffrey y’all had that year that went nuts on us.

Seems like Vandy puts a really good team on the floor every few seasons.


Stallings was very good there for a long time.

And it looks like Byington is gonna be a good one too.

But when i think of the traditionally bad sec basketball schools i think of Auburn, South Carolina, Georgia, Ole Miss.

Those have all been worse than Vandy over the years imo.
Their 2011/12 team was legit, probably the best Vandy team in my lifetime. Stalling seemed to always put more effort into beating UK than anyone else and he did end up beating our title team in the SECT finals, but then didn't make it out of the first weekend of the NCAAT. I still scratch my head at that one, that Vandy team was really dynamic. Could shoot from all over the floor and had a really good big man.
 
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Friedas_Boss

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Their 2011/12 team was legit, probably the best Vandy team in my lifetime. Stalling seemed to always put more effort into beating UK than anyone else and he did end up beating our title team in the SECT finals, but then didn't make it out of the first weekend of the NCAAT. I still scratch my head at that one, that Vandy team was really dynamic. Could shoot from all over the floor and had a really good big man.

That Vandy team got screwed by refs vs Wisconsin, they wrecked the game by calling 5 charges against Vandy in the first half. Took away several and 1’s and got Jeff Taylor in foul trouble. We fought back and had a great look to win the game but John Jenkins missed the shot. That team could have Ben a Final Four team for sure.

Margins are thin in hoops, refs have a lot of control over the games. Stallings got some weirdly bad breaks in NCAA games or he’d still be at Vandy.
 

Artlaibesghost

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I grew up in Nashville. When Roy Skinner was there they had some great teams in basketball. Never had very much of a football program till very recently. Unlike many here I think Vandy has tremendous potential for future growth of its fan base. Nashville is changing. ALOT of money , jobs and new people in the city. Having a winning sports team locally is good for business and will be supported. It wouldn't surprise me to see Vandy become a mid tier SEC team in future instead of perennial doormat. In football at least UK has earned that dubious honor. As for basketball it's hard to say you are the leading program in conference when you haven't been to a FF in over a decade and 4 other teams in conference have. We might want to get our house in order before we throw shade at anybody.
 
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Broker

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I grew up in Nashville. When Roy Skinner was there they had some great teams in basketball. Never had very much of a football program till very recently. Unlike many here I think Vandy has tremendous potential for future growth of its fan base. Nashville is changing. ALOT of money , jobs and new people in the city. Having a winning sports team locally is good for business and will be supported. It wouldn't surprise me to see Vandy become a mid tier SEC team in future instead of perennial doormat. In football at least UK has earned that dubious honor. As for basketball it's hard to say you are the leading program in conference when you haven't been to a FF in over a decade and 4 other teams in conference have. We might want to get our house in order before we throw shade at anybody.
good logical post!
 
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Friedas_Boss

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I grew up in Nashville. When Roy Skinner was there they had some great teams in basketball. Never had very much of a football program till very recently. Unlike many here I think Vandy has tremendous potential for future growth of its fan base. Nashville is changing. ALOT of money , jobs and new people in the city. Having a winning sports team locally is good for business and will be supported. It wouldn't surprise me to see Vandy become a mid tier SEC team in future instead of perennial doormat. In football at least UK has earned that dubious honor. As for basketball it's hard to say you are the leading program in conference when you haven't been to a FF in over a decade and 4 other teams in conference have. We might want to get our house in order before we throw shade at anybody.

Mid tier in football and upper tier in hoops are definitely attainable under the new rules where Vandy can ALSO now pay athletes. Talk about playing with one hand tied behind your backs when all other SEC schools are paying players accept for Vandy…

And to your point, if you win, that’s the easiest way to build a fanbase. If any of yall went to the UK Vandy football all game this fall, you would have seen that first hand.

Cats have all the resources, the history , the money and the fanbase, yall will be fine!!! I like the new FB hire too, SEC just keeps getting harder and harder!
 
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Aike

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For data guys like Aike, Village, and anyone else -- would you consider Kenpom a "good" model? My perception is it's a very slow learning rate model. Preseason bias takes a while to shake off and sometimes continues all the way to the NCAAT. Another perception is that too much weight is given to blowouts against bad teams.

My ideal would be 0 weight to any game 50 or more spots under where you are, which means you really couldn't rank teams until league play. I think the MMR system used in competitive video games does it right -- you only move up by playing, and beating, competition your level.

Asking because every year I have one "Kenpom" bracket, and that always flops and does much worse than my "eye test" one. So my perception is the model isn't really good. Could also be the model was intended to do something very different than "predict the score if these two teams played". Would be very interested in any insights.

I look at it as one data point. By midway through the season, it does a pretty good job of predicting the point spread between two teams.

I kind of think it’s early season results are problematic if you want to get the best gauge on reality. But they aren’t unreasonable. I assume that there’s a marketing aspect behind why he does some of the things he does.

The reason I say it’s one data point is that all models will have some bias. You can build 2 models that come out with almost identical overall results, but use slightly different inputs.

Just as an example, maybe one uses free throw shooting as an input, and another uses three point shooting as an input.

Those two models may get similar overall results, but you easily see how a poor three point shooting team may fall too much, and good free throw shooting team may rise too much.

Maybe a third model would use effective field goal percentage and would give you a better all around model. But probably all three models will tell you Michigan is one of the best 2 or 3 teams right now.

My model is optimized for NCAA tournament results, so it tends to do better than Kenpom predicting tournament game winners. But the tournament is so random that his model will almost definitely beat mine occasionally.

Also, how do you define “beats?” If you are asking who came closer on each point spread, that’s one thing. Just picking games is another.
 

kyjeff1

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That Vandy team got screwed by refs vs Wisconsin, they wrecked the game by calling 5 charges against Vandy in the first half. Took away several and 1’s and got Jeff Taylor in foul trouble. We fought back and had a great look to win the game but John Jenkins missed the shot. That team could have Ben a Final Four team for sure.

Margins are thin in hoops, refs have a lot of control over the games. Stallings got some weirdly bad breaks in NCAA games or he’d still be at Vandy.
John Jenkins didn’t miss very many shots. That team had 1 other guy that could stroke it, drawing a blank, but those 2 guys were tough to defend.
 
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Friedas_Boss

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John Jenkins didn’t miss very many shots. That team had 1 other guy that could stroke it, drawing a blank, but those 2 guys were tough to defend.

That team was very good for sure.

Brad Tinsley at PG - great shooter
John Jenkins at the 2 - elite shooter
Jeff Taylor - decent shooter, great athlete
Lance Goulbourne - good athlete
Festus Ezeli - center, long NBA career
 
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