They are not and it’s not even close. I already gave you multiple for reasons how they aren’t similar at all. Yet you choose to die on this hill and look like a complete moron. Stop digging dude.
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AGAIN, you compared last season's roster to this season's.
Is reading not a strong suit for you?
Give me Ben's roster without question and it's not even close
Stirtz/Dix- both very highly rated players in the portal with similar skillsets. Stirtz more PG skills while Dix probably a slightly higher ceiling defensively. Fair to say the nod goes to Stirtz, as an overall player.
Folgueiras/Freeman- two more highly rated players in the portal. Kind of depends what a team is looking for. And a case could be made for either. Probably fair to call this one a push.
Hausen/Sandfort- very close, again. Without having seen Hausen play much, I think Sandfort is more versatile on offense. I'd give him the slight nod, although I'd have no problem settling for a push. And if Hausen happens to have some dog in him defensively, I'd probably even give him the slight nod overall.
Banks/Traore- again, very similar. Both versatile and athletic defenders. Traore probably has more upside, offensively. While Banks is a more immediately seasoned defender, and will help instill the culture. Take your pick.
Manyawu/Demeble- although Demebele has some positive defensive and rebounding traits that McCollum would maximize, Manyawu is the better all-around defender, and rebounder. But Dembele, with his 3ball, has more upside offensively. Again, Manyawu brings a culture component. Similar again here. But I don't have a problem with someone giving a slight nod to Manyawu.
Combs/Harding- Combs probably the better all-around defender, while Harding brings more offensively. I think it's plenty fair to give Harding the overall nod.
Koch/Koch- strikingly similar.
Howard/Lewis- I'm not as high on Howard as others. That said, many were high on Lewis. There’s a reason he was Fran's highest rated recruit ever. I'm going to treat him as such, by giving him the nod over Howard.
Thompson/Tadjo- Some clear athletiscm and upside with Tadjo. But similar to the previous comparison, not going to over think it. Thompson is highly rated for a reason, and he gets the nod.
Sage/Johnson-Arigu- Sage has looked good. Slightly different players with Johnson-Arigu having been pretty well regarded. I happen to be pretty high on Johnson-Arigu, and will give him the slight nod. Although I'd have no problem with this one being deemed a push.
Jirak/Diakite- Great early returns on Jirak. The more he plays, the more having the nod in this comparison becomes significant.
Nobody/Briscoe
Nobody/Mulvey
Clearly, Briscoe and Mulvey would have provided more depth. But it should also be said that the current roster may still be added to.
Significance of comparison gets a little murky later down the list, as we don't know how deep of a rotation Ben will use.
But the top 7 is incredibly even. 2 difference makers at similar positions on each roster. Stirtz/Folgueiras, Dix/Freeman. And comparable pieces to the puzzle everywhere else, with Koch having the potential to be a difference maker down the road. With Stirtz, if you want to say the difference makers on the present roster have a higher ceiling, that's fine. But that doesn't make the present roster better, to the degree that many have claimed.
Nor should I think any perceived difference in the players 8 and deeper on the roster should grant a huge difference in rating, as we're not even sure how much those guys will play.
But it turns out, the bottom portion is also comparable. Each roster has a potential difference maker down the road (Thompson/Lewis). Jirak gives more upside at center. While Diakite, Mulvey, Briscoe provide better front line depth.
Overall, a few of the "inherited" guys probably had a little more upside. Whereas, some of the current guys will better build the culture. Probably a touch more ball handling with the inherited roster. But again, the best player is on the current roster.
Given that, and the advantage the current roster brings to the culture build, I'd probably give the nod, overall, to the current roster. It is good to know for sure that everyone is someone Ben wanted. And that everyone wants to be here.
But the difference in rosters is nothing close to what fans and media have made it out to be. "Without question", and, "not even close", are exaggerations that diminish your credibility.
Again, the team success of both Iowa and Drake have been greatly overvalued in these type of roster rankings. And it's just another case of fans and media doing what they do. Quite comical, actually
You pick some odd hills to die on but, please, carry on
You have these comparisons all wrong.
Hausen is an elite shooter and better player overall. Hausen was rated higher in the portal.
Traore wasn't really good at anything. Banks was rated higher in the portal
Demeble improved last year but was still a bench player. Manyawu was the higher rated player in the portal.
*Lewis, Briscoe and Diakite were never on the team.
Hausen is an elite shooter and better player overall. Hausen was rated higher in the portal.
Traore wasn't really good at anything. Banks was rated higher in the portal
Demeble improved last year but was still a bench player. Manyawu was the higher rated player in the portal.
*Lewis, Briscoe and Diakite were never on the team.
Thanks for the one on one breakdown, Eyes.
While I agree the lineup comparison is close, I much prefer Banks over Traore and Manyawa over Demeble. Traore showed me almost nothing last year and Demeble needs a motor.
And although I used to worship the ground Harding walked on, I’ve gotten over it, and lean towards the mistake prone Combs over him.
While I agree the lineup comparison is close, I much prefer Banks over Traore and Manyawa over Demeble. Traore showed me almost nothing last year and Demeble needs a motor.
And although I used to worship the ground Harding walked on, I’ve gotten over it, and lean towards the mistake prone Combs over him.
You can prefer Hausen, if you wish. But again, it's pretty close. Sandfort is most likely going to be starting on a big ten team. He has more length, and I think, can still improve quite a bit.
Traore was partially a product of a dysfunctional team. This is the type of misinterpretation from fans that I'm talking about. Again, there's a good chance he'll start on another P5 team. Expect a more much efficient and consistent player under Seydou's new conditions. I think his athletiscm and defensive versatility would have really shined in Ben's sysytem.
Not only are Banks and Traore roll players, but they both offer very similar games. Both are athletic and versatile defenders, with limited offensive games. If Traore rather than Banks were on the roster, he'd be filling almost the exact same role. With like coaching, these guys are very similar, with again, Traore possessing the upside.
I agree, Manyawu is the slightly better prospect. But again, it's not by much. Two role playing defender/rebounders with limited offensive games. Again, Dembele's 3ball gives him upside offensively. And he'll become a much better defender/rebounder with better coaching.
Yes, Lewis, Briscoe, Diakite all left after Ben had the job. They are all part of the only relevant roster comparison.
That's the point here. I'm not buying that everyone was welcomed back and they all still left. Again, the present roster could still be added to. But that aside, I'm having a hard time understanding why it appears certain doors were closed and meanwhile Iowa is short on scholarship players. Certainly, Diakite and Tadjo would be better than open roster spots. How about Lewis and Johnson-Arigu? How about Traore and Dembele? Those guys are better than empty roster spots, are they not?
You can prefer Hausen, Banks, and Manyawu. That's fine. But the fact is, there isn't the difference that fans have claimed. Everyone that we're talking about is a rotational player in a good basketball conference. None of them are difference makers. And there are a lot of similarities in the in the players that have been matched up in these comparisons
I appreciate your more level-headed perspective.
Post #88 explains why I think Traore has much more in the tank than we've seen.
Interesteing you'd lean Combs. This was one of my least close comparisons. Maybe Combs has more offensive games than I've seen. But I think Harding's capability in assist numbers makes him a much more potent offensive player. Again, good chance he starts at TCU. We'll see. I'd love to be proven wrong
I felt that Fran’s players were not happy with the University about how Fran was treated at the end. Unclear how many kids were asked, but they appeared to be moving on themselves early in the process.
When McCollum was installed, he brought his own guys when he could - common courtesy, I thought then, not to pursue Fran’s own guys very diligently.
When McCollum was installed, he brought his own guys when he could - common courtesy, I thought then, not to pursue Fran’s own guys very diligently.
Fran stood around with his hands in his pockets, not a good look. He never seemed into it most of the year. Whether the players like it or not, it was time for a change.
Fran appeared to be the unhappy one. At least 3 of the guys were gone before the season ended (Freeman, Dix and Traore). With Freeman gone, Harding was going to go. Mulvey, Dembele and maybe little Sandfort were probably gone. Fran was treated more than fairly at Iowa up to and including the end.
I don’t know of any other place in P4 that would have kept a coach that long for mostly mediocre results. Playing his sons over a future lottery pick and second round pick was unforgivable.
Frankly, if you can’t get out of the 1st round of the NCAA tournament with the NPOTY, a lottery pick, and two second round picks, then it’s time for you to move on.
I'm sure it was Ali Dibba. We kicked the tires but I he was ultimately headed to DePaul before T a&m swooped in with a better offer last minute.
They all had a chance to talk with BMac after he was hired and they choice not too, that's on them. If they felt that Fran was disrespected by the University they had blinders on as half the season you could tell Fran was not engaged as he had been in the past, I believe he knew his time at Iowa was short lived.
We'll see how the departed players fair at their new schools as this season unfolds, but I believe very few will have better seasons at their new schools then they had at Iowa. Freeman, Dix, Harding, Sandford, and maybe Mulvey, but the rest who cares, the Iowa roster the last few years was never deep enough to make a difference in the Big Ten and it turned out to be true.
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Traore was gone before the season was over? According to who?
Iowa's season ended on 3-13. Ben was hired on 3-24. Seydou entered the portal om 4-3. He committed to Utah on 4-26
You're trying to say all the players that transfered declined to meet with Ben before they left?
According to who?
What a load of crap
So, you have evidence that the main players from last year, Freeman, Sandford, Harding, Dembele, and Traore, met with BMac and decided to move on, what a load of crap, and only the Koch's decided stay? Freeman wasn't coming back even if Iowa had hired Danial Harley, Harding wasn't going to play second fiddle to Bed Stirtz and Sandford left to be near his girlfriend or whatever, the rest of the roster wasn't worth two cents including the 3 recruits Fran managed to convince to come to Iowa but ended up going to mid major programs. As I've said before, if last years roster was unaware that Fran's time at Iowa was short lived they had blinders on or they were in denial. Fran was just going though the motions as the season progressed and with a new AD, he knew the end wasn't too far in his future.
Whatever transpired behind closed doors is history and Iowa is in a much better place without Fran McCaffery and Fran is in much better place without Iowa, enough said.
No matter who's right or how things panned out, Iowa decided to go in another direction, I'm excited to see how the program evolves under Iowa's new coach. Can't wait for the season to start!
Agree with some, but not all of this.
Regardless, it's all irrelevant to the simple question that was posed. All of the players that transfered declined to meet with Ben, according to who?
Seems you declined to answer. So I'll assume it was pure fabrication by you.
That's even weaker than having gotten bad information, being dumb enough to believe it, and being inconsiderate enough to post it to the public.
Why would you make such a thing up out of thin air? Do actually expect anyone to believe that cliam?
In some cases it is better to have empty spots over role players. I'm sure it was a two-way street and some players didn't want to stay, while others Ben didn't want. That's normal for a situation when the coach has players he wanted to bring in. My have players who don't fit your needs taking reps away from others or not fitting in with the style of play. It's not good for them and it's not good for the team. People can do a comparison and on paper some may seem similar, but I'm ready for a change, I don't want to see Dembele or Traore this year. With a new coach I want some new blood. Save the open spots for new players, why have Tadjo take up a spot for three more years if he doesn't fit the program.
I don't think Fran really wanted to be at Iowa in the end, and I don't blame him for wanting a change (after two of his kids had bad experiences). What I blame him for is that he should have made the change, not force the AD to fire him. And he did that for the money and spite. If he had retired then the players wouldn't have been mad at the University and left. They would have given the new coach a chance. If you're looking for blame as to why Fran's players didn't stay, you need to include Fran in that list. Fran could have walked away but he chose to burn the place down. Luckily Ben has already built the place back better than before the fire.
What you say has its value.
But the open roster spots are not by preference from the staff. They tried to recruit another guard, in Williamson, and it didn't work out. And many times, we heard Ben speak of the desire to acquire more bigs than than what ended up being acquired.
Yes, the roster may still be added to. But "fit" only goes so far when a roster deficiency is present. And at present, the roster is deficient in true guard lateral defensive quickness. Combs is the player closest to possessing that level of quickness. And even he is a bigger guard, rather than a quick-twitch guard. The guys next closest for lateral quicks in the backcourt are Stirtz and Banks.
Overall, Iowa's defense will be a well coached and well executing unit. They will be able cover up for much of this deficiency. But at some point, the wave of downhill quickness in the big ten is going to hit. If Stirtz gets hurt, Iowa is probably screwed, regardless. But even if Combs or Banks gets hurt, the lack of lateral quicks on the perimeter likely keeps the Hawks out of the Dance.
In Ben's first press conference he mentioned wanting to retain Dix, Sandfort, and Koch. Most likely Ben knew Freeman was already gone, as of course he would have otherwise been interested. And probably Harding too. It seems pretty obvious that no one else was welcomed back.
When Ben only mentioned those 3 players in the press conference, I was shocked. Maybe that didn't make some of the others feel unwelcomed. But it certainly didn't make any of them feel welcomed.
And each thing that transpired after that seemed to also point to the probability that none of the others were welcomed back.
Ben made a lot of media appearances during that time. Not once did he mention any interest in keeping any of those guys.
I just don't buy that every player, other than Koch, chose to leave on his own. People want to bring up the players having been mad at the administration. But that doesn't account for the guys in the incoming class that left. I just don't believe that none of them had any interest in Iowa after Fran left. The NIL money, alone, makes that impossible to believe, plus other obvious benefits to having stayed at Iowa.
It's true, we don't know exactly what happened behind those closed doors. But the overwhelmingly most likely scenario is that only Dix, Sandfort, and Koch were welcomed back. Rather than each player having chose on his own to leave, this scenario only took the choice of one person (Ben). Again, FAR more likely.
So from where I sit, if those doors weren't all immediately shut, a couple of those guys would probably have filled out a couple of roster spots that need filled. Again, it didn't sound like the open roster spots were by design. Aside from the perimeter quickness deficiency, it's a lot easier to run practices with more bodies. Also, Ben has mentioned wanting to be a developmental program. To do that, you have to have development in the last spots of full rosters.
I'm not sure what would have been wrong with developing guys like Tadjo and Diakite for a season. If they had turned into rotational players or legit depth pieces, it would have saved Iowa from having to shop for an expensive bigs next year.
None of Traore, Lewis, or Johnson-Arigu are the quick-twitch type of guard that I've referred to. But they are all capable of guarding a lot of 2's, and any one of them would have helped close that quickness/athletiscm gap on the perimeter. For example, Traore being able to guard the 2 would have allowed Hausen to guard 3's in some line-ups. Having even one of those guys would have made a real difference in that regard.
Again, Ben had mentioned wanting more bigs than what the roster ended up with. I'm guessing he'd take Dembele in a heartbeat, at this point. Would he really view Dembele as that much of a "cancer" that he'd rather have an open roster spot at a position that he wished to fill? Of course not.
I doubt Ben viewed any of the guys that left as "cancers". He just wanted to try to get his own guys in there.
The new coaches and schools that are now paying those players good money certainly didn't deem them to be cancerous.
So, for fans to have not wanted guys like Traore and Dembele back, is just silly. The players weren't to blame for the same deficiencies that existed at Iowa for 15 years. We would have seen completely different players, in guys like Traore and Demeble, under Ben's coaching.
Ben has proven he can coach. But this was his first roster build at the big ten level, and I don't think everything panned out like he had calculated.
I get the reasoning behind wanting to clean house and get your own guys. But I find that approach, to such a drastic degree, to be far overstated and unnecessary.
I questioned, at the time, why it seemd all those guys were not welcomed back. With the current incomplete roster, that question has only been reinforced.
To be clear, I'm not trying to beat Ben up for this. I like the roster he put together, but it's clearly incomplete. I do think the roster Ben has put together will help build his culture at Iowa.
I think a big part of Ben's personality is to do things his own way. Like any personality, that comes with its strengths and its weaknesses. I think we've seen part of the weakness of that personality play out in a way that has left Iowa's roster short. But again, this isn't an attack on Ben. The fact that he does things his own way has proven to, overall, be a big strength for him in his industry.
I do think Ben and staff miscalculated this roster build. But I'm ecstatic to have Ben, and I believe he'll do a great job at Iowa.
So, rather than trying beat up Ben, this has merely been a commentary on fans, and their thorough misrepresentation of the process that led to this roster. I guess it was to be expected from fans, as they had it wrong all along, with the level of blame they put on the players last season
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but aren't you missing something........by the time Iowa hired BMc as the new coach, Mulvey, Freeman, Harding, Dix, and Sandford had already entered the Portal, does that sound like any of them wanted to play under whomever Beth hired? After Ben was hired, Dembele, Tadjo, Traore, and Kingsbury and the 3 Fran recruits followed suit and it really doesn't matter if conversations ensued between Frans former players and Ben. At this point in time. Iowa has a new coach and almost a completely new roster and Fran is now coaching his alma mater in Philadelphia. I'm guessing that in the coming months we'll all find out if what transpired between Fran, the university, Ben and the players revolving door was for the better, I'm putting my money on BMac and Iowa's new roster....
Outside of Dix and Sandfort, don’t think CBM wanted any of the remaining Hawks. Freeman and Harding were already going to bolt so they’re irrelevant at that point. Dembele was super slow reaction time both offensively and defensively and couldn’t put the ball on the floor. I’ll give him close to average 3pt shooter for his size. Clearly nothing CBM wants. Traore more a one on one driver and maybe could post up if he had a mismatch but not good at passing efficiency in flow of Fran’s offense. Never showed he was an above average defender or rebounder and that wasn’t expected out of him apparently. He would be rock in CBMs quick motion and ball reversal offensive that Abreu, Mascari, and Jackson/Combs did last year. Better he’s gone too. If Tadjo was so good he’d have played most of Braun’s minutes last year, right?… another do not want.
BMC wants his guys, definitely not Frans.
The only other Iowa recruit pre-CBM he may have been interested was the Johnson-A* leaving Miami. If CBM liked he would have tried to retain him.
I have FULL trust that CBM knows what he wants and what the roster is right now. And I have no doubts this team will be good, will play defense, and be fun to watch; regardless how fast or slow they play.
BMC wants his guys, definitely not Frans.
The only other Iowa recruit pre-CBM he may have been interested was the Johnson-A* leaving Miami. If CBM liked he would have tried to retain him.
I have FULL trust that CBM knows what he wants and what the roster is right now. And I have no doubts this team will be good, will play defense, and be fun to watch; regardless how fast or slow they play.
Entering the portal doesn't necessarily mean transferring. It's smart for kids these days to enter the portal and weight their options. And a couple of the players even mentioned having not ruled out staying at Iowa.
You made the claim that all of the players that left declined to meet with Ben. You've probably realized how preposterous that claim was and are now conveniently saying it doesn't matter whether those conversations took place or not. Yet something must have mattered in your mind, to have originally made that claim up out of thin air.
Yes, fan behavior does matter. Respect for accuracy does matter. Being considerate about what gets posted on public forums does matter. The fact that fans can post any old thing they want to, without ever having to be accountable for it, does matter. Look at '87 Iowa vs UNLV. 38 years later it's still widely believed that Dr. Tom sat on the ball that game. Nothing could be further from the truth. And it's quite sad that garbage like that exists at such an accepted level.
As for the nature of those conversations (Ben not welcoming said players back), that also matters. If those players hadn't been shown the door, I doubt Iowa would have an incomplete roster at this point.
This isn't a Ben vs Fran thing. I'm not sure why Fran is even being mentioned.
It's a Ben vs Ben conversation. We may like this roster. But we would like it more if it were better
I don't think anyone is arguing that Ben did want any of the players you refer to.
But as mentioned in post #106, it was more of a case of him wanting to try to get his own guys, rather than not wanting certain players that were at Iowa.
Ben wasn't able to get as many of "his players" as he assumed he would have. And I'm sure at this point, he'd take back a couple of the guys that left.
No, Dembele was not super slow. He was just too raw to see the game very well. And Fran did not give him the defensive habits to help catch him up. Ladji would have looked like a completely different defensive player under Ben. UNLV certainly didn't have any problem with what they are getting in Dembele.
Also mentioned in this thread is the fact that Traore, at Iowa, was a product of a dysfunctional team. Utah certainly hasn't given up on him. Again, we would have seen a completely different player under Ben.
You may disagree, and devalue Traore, as a player, in Ben's system. But as has been explained many times in this thread, he would have been better than an open roster spot. The same is true for guys like Dembele and Tadjo.
Not sure why you think Ben may have been interested in Johnson-Arigu, but not Lewis. Lewis was the highest rated recruit for Iowa since Tyler Smith. But again, it seemed obvious that Ben did not welcome any of the incoming class (which again, is to say he preferred to try to get his "own guys").
You have "full trust in Ben", as if the incomplete roster was by design, lmao. Ben tried to get "his guys", and that attempt left Iowa with an incomplete roster. He knows the roster needs another guard, which is why he tried to get Williamson. And again, many times Ben mentioned his desire to acquire more bigs than what the roster ended up with.
These are the type of blinders that keep fans clueless
Followed BMCs teams for a long time. Watched plenty of games at NWMS over several years and all them at Drake last year. If that makes me clueless, then that makes you a dumfk.
Coach is really putting an effort in to drum up support. Good for him. I hope people show up and Carver is rocking again.
I hope they do something soon at Carver for the students, where they can interact with the team, win prizes, get fed, etc.
I will be attending several games. I love the new coach and culture he is bringing to Iowa. He will bring Iowa basketball back to national relevance and finish top 5 in the BIG this year. You heard it here first.
I would have thought that if a former Hawk was granted an extra year of eligibility it would have been big news, not a vague reference in a podcast.
Former Iowa Men's Basketball player Drew Thelwell is headed to France
The Iowa Men's Basketball program is continuing its rebuild following a disastrous 2024-2025 season. In Fran McCaffery's final season at the helm of the Hawkeyedearoldgold.com
Does anyone know which former player(s) actually requested another year of eligibility? Seems like it would be public record somewhere???