When it comes to bands like Metallica, green day or nirvana it's hard to say they sold out. Their music for the most part stayed the same but became more mainstream. This is beautiful for them but they don't like being labeled as sellouts since their music has gone mainstream and those fans that loved them before they were winning Grammies and being more recongnized tend to look at them as selling out since their fan bases have quadrupled in an albums time
Worlds BIggest Sellout(s)
- Thread starter Wall2Boogie
- Start date
The Terminator in a landslide. He went from trying to kill Sarah Connor to saving her.
This isn't true. Nirvana wasn't considered a sell out until post nevermind. The reason being is that they had a big studio album, produced by Butch Vig. The sound was a big departure from their diy attitude and pixie rip offs. A few years prior, they did a split 7 inch with the Jesus Lizard, indie royalty from Chicago on Touch and Go. Added to this, was the leap from Sub Pop to Geffen records, where the band **** on Sub Pop. This is why people from the punk/indie scene didn't care for nirvana. Hell, they played Cahoots in Louisville in 90 on the Bleach tour, so they were well known then.
Also, after NM, when recording in Utero, they went to Steve Albini to produce and record. Albini is considered an Indie God, with being in Big Black and Shellac. He gained notoriety from producing Pixies Surferosa and a Bush album. I think even a robert plant album. His rawness in recording and simplicity made artist come to him. Well once, nirvana had in Utero recorded, they had the hit singles like all apologies, heart shaped box re recorded to sound more polished like nevermind.
They weren't considered sell outs before. And even Cobain said he ripped off smells like teen spirit from the pixies.
Everyone one of these bands had huge departures to indicate a switch from music that was based on creating music as its primary goal (see Glen Gould) to its primary goal of making money.
Metallica- the black album had more radio friendly songs than 6-9 minute anthologies. The 3 minute pop song was a big switch.
nirvana nevermind - the band went from indie records to studio albums that sounded canned and polished.
Green day Dokie was probably the start, but seriously, no gives a **** about them. Bunch of turds.
I don't care if they sold outs. If you make money doing what you love, so be it. But there is a philosophical point that describes the purpose of making music in multiple ways. Pianist Glen Gould talked extensively about this subject and quit performing live because of a conceived violation of principle. He maintained that there was a primary motivation for creating art and music, which was/is the creative side, which is the soul of art, taking nothing from the void and creating something. The interior.
The secondary motivation was from outside influence, the exterior. This is basically any influence like money, others etc. Gould quit performing because he claimed in his music, the idea of paying bills, selling out halls, creeped into his music and thus corrupted the primary motivation.
This is the essence of selling out.
So when Metallica starts making radio hits after making tons with "one," their motivation change is obvious.
Hi see what your saying lek, I had read a few articles in which cobain claimed the media said they had sold out and were s Pop group rather than grunge, which is why I brought up smells like teen spirit. Cobain said he wanted to write the ultimate pop songs as a slap in the face to those calling them sellouts, the cover of never mind actually portrays this theory. Which as you know a baby representing a teen chasing the all mighty dollar which this represents they will do anything include sell out to get that dollar bill dangling in front of them.
As for Metallica, I don't think they sold out at all. List time music was talked about someone mentioned they sold out in the 90s when they but out songs like enter sandman that back mainstream. The guy had said they switched their music up to and sold out since albums like ride the lightening in the 80s and true fans didn't like the direction they were heading in the 90s .
I agree with you though. If you build upon success, fans take notice and you are immediately labeled as a sellout. Most of us know that isn't completely the truth in most cases
As for Metallica, I don't think they sold out at all. List time music was talked about someone mentioned they sold out in the 90s when they but out songs like enter sandman that back mainstream. The guy had said they switched their music up to and sold out since albums like ride the lightening in the 80s and true fans didn't like the direction they were heading in the 90s .
I agree with you though. If you build upon success, fans take notice and you are immediately labeled as a sellout. Most of us know that isn't completely the truth in most cases
Ride the lightning was pure. Call of Khutu is a 9 minute song. Plus Metallica talked about wanting to shift to more commercial success. Lars is the biggest piece of **** musician out there.
But it's not building on success. Selling out is a change in philosophy. It's going for money vs going for art. So not sure you do get me. They were selling out. I just don't care.
In each of those cases, all the bands went for money and fame over creating great art.
It boils down to whether you're an artist or an entertainer.
certain bands are just great artists and never saw commercial success. A lot of this is because they are ahead of their time.
One of the reasons the velvet underground is considered one of the greatest bands ever is because of their influence on the music community. They inspired so many other musicians who had commercial success.
But it's not building on success. Selling out is a change in philosophy. It's going for money vs going for art. So not sure you do get me. They were selling out. I just don't care.
In each of those cases, all the bands went for money and fame over creating great art.
It boils down to whether you're an artist or an entertainer.
certain bands are just great artists and never saw commercial success. A lot of this is because they are ahead of their time.
One of the reasons the velvet underground is considered one of the greatest bands ever is because of their influence on the music community. They inspired so many other musicians who had commercial success.
I get what your saying, it's hard to show tone as you know on here but like I said I agree with The way you paid it out. Good post my man!!
No one knew Nevermind was going to have the success it had and launch Nirvana to stardom. It's easy to say these things in hindsight. Kurt also hated the finished product and called it a Motley Crüe record. If you think Kurt was writing music to make money you're crazy.
I just made the case for it. Didnt say I agree with it. However, it is obvious they made 2 records with the purpose of having commercial success. Its the reason Butch Vig was used and Albini was scrapped. If he hated it so much, dont put it out, happens all the time, second, they went back to that sound after scrapping Albini.
People can have multiple motivations, this isnt a hard concept. You can be an artist to make money and make music. Its just your own ethos and levels of them. So to say that Cobain made music for money isnt crazy. He also made it to create. And who knows what else.
Eminem wasn't really a sell out but he had the formula down pat..every time he released an album he would make on annoying cheesy song for the radio and MTV then the rest of his cd would be fire.
Eminem is the farthest thing from a sellout. He's always stuck true to what he does even if people think he's gone too far. It's not like he's joining boy bands or singing country music
That goes for 90% of all rappers. They gotta get something out on the air. Back in the day it was harder for guys like tupac, biggie, new, etc. word of mouth was basically how they got their music out since satellite radio was nonexistent at the time.
Eminem is the very definition of a sell out. He's always been about making money. That's his first goal. His primary motivation is to get paid. I still think you are having trouble with this concept.
What hip hop artist isn't about making money? KRS-one? Beastie boys? Public Enemy? Common? And how does one sell out if their primary objective has always been money?
It poses the question are they really artists or entertainers?
I would say the rappers you mentioned are probably artists. krs 1 came to mind. There isn't a line that one sits on. I'm sure it's fluid. Eminem just is an obvious one.
There are a few hip hop artists out there for the art. It's about the primary motivation. Is it getting paid or making music.
I don't care eitherway, just discussing what is the definition of a sell out.
I would say the rappers you mentioned are probably artists. krs 1 came to mind. There isn't a line that one sits on. I'm sure it's fluid. Eminem just is an obvious one.
There are a few hip hop artists out there for the art. It's about the primary motivation. Is it getting paid or making music.
I don't care eitherway, just discussing what is the definition of a sell out.
So what if one's primary objective has always been money and then one day they say, hey I'm going to start doing cafés instead of arenas. I'm going to start experimenting with my music and writing. Would this be considered selling out?
Have you? You've described selling out as going from making art to focusing on money. I've presented the opposite. Would it still be considered selling out if you went from your original goal of making money to making great art?
Nelly makes sense but mentioning Taylor swift is idiotic considering she's like the biggest name in pop music right now and has made boat loads of cash since she transitioned to pop. Something she couldn't have done had she stayed country.
What an absolute asinine thing to say. Yes, he "sold out" because he grew up a bit and toned down his cop killing image to make millions of dollars.
In fact, it's not Just asinine- it's downright racist for you to say something like that. Like he's "supposed" to be this hardcore, street thug so you can bump him in your Toyota Camry while locking the doors when a black guy walks by (office space style)
I bet you wear tap-out T-Shirts don't you?
Wow jelly Shelly you have manges to make many friends like Lorde_blow did welcome to the paddock lol. It was nice seeing you lurk for a day
Expected lol- when confronted and backed into a corner.... Just bust out a meme!
Oh and accuse the other poster of the most cliche term ever in the history of messages boards... "Straw man" lol
Expected lol- when confronted and backed into a corner.... Just bust out a meme!
Oh and accuse the other poster of the most cliche term ever in the history of messages boards... "Straw man" lol
Says the poster who threw out the race card, which is several rungs above "straw man" regarding message board cliches.
If they sold out with In Utero...then thank God they did. Great Album. "Serve the Servants," "Heart-Shaped Box," "All Apologies," "Frances Farmer," "Pennyroyal Tea," "Scentless Apprentice" and "Dumb" are all amazing tracks.
<-------- Big fan of Punk-Pop.
