I’d be mad. It would smell to much of quitting and running away, and he seems made of sterner stuff then that. I expect him to fight for the next three years with these recruits.
Would You Be Mad if Collins Left?
- Thread starter 7th Cir. Cat
- Start date
Not directed art you, but I never liked this argument. Almost a victim of his own success. Well you did it once! Impossible with admissions no. Unlikely, with admissions yes. Unless, NU gets the unicorn recruit (PBJ) it will be extremely hard to be a consistent winner. Even then it would need to catch national attention like What happened with Duke with Gminski, Spanarkel et al.
Ah, the Dark Ages redux. Could only foreshadow a Renaissance. Ask someone from MSU what renaissance means.
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Yes. Larry Glass left NU when he could not win the B1G . Nu '69 and 70' were talented enough to challenge and he left frustrated that he had not achieved
What are Stanford admissions like?
Mike Montgomery did a lot of great things there. I'm not saying he should be hired as our coach, I think he doesn't want to coach anymore at age 74 and just wants to enjoy his money. He also just got over cancer so he is probably best advised not to get stressed out.
I would interview far and wide but start with Porter Moser at Loyola.
That having been said, if Stanford has "Duke level" admissions that is one thing, but I think they have "Northwestern level" admissions and they have won.
Michael John Montgomery (born February 27, 1947) is a retired American basketball coach. He is best known for his 18-year tenure at Stanford (1986–2004), where he led the program to 12 NCAA Tournaments, including a Final Four appearance in 1998. Montgomery previously served as head coach at the Montana (1978–1986).[1] Following his time at Stanford, he coached the Golden State Warriors of the National Basketball Association (NBA) for two seasons (2004–2006) before ending his career at the University of California (2008–2014). He announced his retirement from coaching following the 2013–14 season.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Montgomery
Mike Montgomery did a lot of great things there. I'm not saying he should be hired as our coach, I think he doesn't want to coach anymore at age 74 and just wants to enjoy his money. He also just got over cancer so he is probably best advised not to get stressed out.
I would interview far and wide but start with Porter Moser at Loyola.
That having been said, if Stanford has "Duke level" admissions that is one thing, but I think they have "Northwestern level" admissions and they have won.
Michael John Montgomery (born February 27, 1947) is a retired American basketball coach. He is best known for his 18-year tenure at Stanford (1986–2004), where he led the program to 12 NCAA Tournaments, including a Final Four appearance in 1998. Montgomery previously served as head coach at the Montana (1978–1986).[1] Following his time at Stanford, he coached the Golden State Warriors of the National Basketball Association (NBA) for two seasons (2004–2006) before ending his career at the University of California (2008–2014). He announced his retirement from coaching following the 2013–14 season.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Montgomery
(mandatory disclaimer - casual fan)
I've lost confidence in CCC but I'd also lost confidence in Fitz circa 2015, so...
Don't worry about not getting a coach. If I were, say, a moderately successful mid-major coach making $500k a year, and could make 5 times that at NU, I'd take the risk. Particularly with a) our FB history since 95, showing it can be done b) our one-hit wonder of 2016 c) facilities.
I'm not-so-silently rooting for Tavaras Hardy to figure things out and then come home.
I've lost confidence in CCC but I'd also lost confidence in Fitz circa 2015, so...
Don't worry about not getting a coach. If I were, say, a moderately successful mid-major coach making $500k a year, and could make 5 times that at NU, I'd take the risk. Particularly with a) our FB history since 95, showing it can be done b) our one-hit wonder of 2016 c) facilities.
I'm not-so-silently rooting for Tavaras Hardy to figure things out and then come home.
Last time we went to the coaching tree and hired an assistant. With the additional risks that involves over a coach who has already actually led a program.
The pool of interested coaches is probably still small compared to other programs, but bigger than it was when CC started. @phatcat mentioned good reasons for that. Not unimportant is the fact we play pretty darn well compared to a mid major.
I'd say a major concern, were we to hire a new coach, would be recruiting. Cause, you know, Carmody knew what he was doing on the court, but was allergic to recruiting. Don't even know what to think about the "local connection". Kind of important for family, for trying to find a cultural fit. But for recruiting, it does not seem we play in the Chicago market.
There are plenty of names out there to dig deeper into, some I can think of:
Matt McMahon
Craig Smith
John Becker
Scott Nagy
In any case, CC is going nowhere before the end of 21-22.
The pool of interested coaches is probably still small compared to other programs, but bigger than it was when CC started. @phatcat mentioned good reasons for that. Not unimportant is the fact we play pretty darn well compared to a mid major.
I'd say a major concern, were we to hire a new coach, would be recruiting. Cause, you know, Carmody knew what he was doing on the court, but was allergic to recruiting. Don't even know what to think about the "local connection". Kind of important for family, for trying to find a cultural fit. But for recruiting, it does not seem we play in the Chicago market.
There are plenty of names out there to dig deeper into, some I can think of:
Matt McMahon
Craig Smith
John Becker
Scott Nagy
In any case, CC is going nowhere before the end of 21-22.
His dad could def get him an assistant job with the Bulls (which is actually worse job right now than NU).
Thinking as an assistant. I worked for the Bulls when Doug was coaching and have spoken to him a couple of times at W-R.. Just reading between the lines.
I will say that he still has the Duke pedigree both as a player and a coach and he did the impossible of taking NU to the dance. It's his first head coaching job, he learned a lot etc. I don't think it's a hard sell for his his agent to line up decent interviews.
You must have been thinking you were looking at one of your own posts. That one is from jensberg.
I believe CCC is more well thought of by people in the industry than by many on this board. He would get another job and quickly.
My short, late answer ...
a) I'm having real problems lately with the hideous number of empty Wilson seats. Yes, yes ... I know it's a bad team, but even when the team was ok (not good), half those seats are empty. I imagine it's got to be completely disheartening to see that night after night.
So with support like that, I wouldn't blame CC/be mad if he bolted.
b) Collins is creeping up on those Carmody years where, personally, I'm grateful for anyone with any skill who sticks around this long.
c) Would I be mad at Phillips if CC was dumped? I think it's early to dump the guy who got you to the tournament. So if you do this early, you better be prepared and have your ducks lined up for the next guy. No long process. No assistants. No guys with only mid-major experience.
d) In the end, I wouldn't be mad at CC. I'd be mad for what it said about the possibilities. It would be another in a line of people stating how difficult the gig is, leaving NU is some head-shaking/"poor NU" position again.
a) I'm having real problems lately with the hideous number of empty Wilson seats. Yes, yes ... I know it's a bad team, but even when the team was ok (not good), half those seats are empty. I imagine it's got to be completely disheartening to see that night after night.
So with support like that, I wouldn't blame CC/be mad if he bolted.
b) Collins is creeping up on those Carmody years where, personally, I'm grateful for anyone with any skill who sticks around this long.
c) Would I be mad at Phillips if CC was dumped? I think it's early to dump the guy who got you to the tournament. So if you do this early, you better be prepared and have your ducks lined up for the next guy. No long process. No assistants. No guys with only mid-major experience.
d) In the end, I wouldn't be mad at CC. I'd be mad for what it said about the possibilities. It would be another in a line of people stating how difficult the gig is, leaving NU is some head-shaking/"poor NU" position again.
Interesting thoughts. Phillips would be crazy to dump CCC and Phillips isn't crazy. I'd be disappointed if CCC were to leave, but I wouldn't be mad. I don't get mad at people for making decisions in their own best interest.
That said, I find it interesting that so many people are putting the blame for the current state of our MBB on the institution when institutional support for athletics has never been stronger. I continue to wonder why football has cracked the nut to a great degree while MBB has struggled to do so.
Does not mean that the institution isn't still an impediment to success here. Just a bit less than they have been
I don't like the idea of assistants either. But do you think we could possibly aim for an experienced P6 coach? I mean, one with actual success, not one who flopped.
I bet NU could get a power conference coach on the downside of their career, if that’s what excites you. Think Mike Montgomery at Cal, or Tubby at Texas Tech.
Also, I don’t think we need to worry about this for a long time — 5 years at least.
No mystery here. Basketball players can go pro after one year; Football three, therefore academics are much more important to football players. Then, throw in the fact that basketball players are usually from more educationally-depressed areas and poorer families and the fact that many basketball players are tied to AAU coaches who usually care little about guys "playing school." AND football recruiting is a more inexact science because there is no national head-to-head competition that compares to hoops.
Lot of generalizations here, but I think you greatly exaggerating the difference between football and basketball preps and recruiting practices.
So, why has Northwestern's most notable basketball success in the modern era come in the time of more players declaring for the NBA draft than ever? Your "therefore" doesn't ring true as a causation comparable.
Do you have any data to back up your contention that more basketball players are from academically-depressed areas and poorer families? And do you have any data to back up your contention that football recruiting rankings are less accurate than basketball rankings when accounting for volume? One might contend that while football recruiting has less national head-to-head competition, one needs to hit on much fewer players to be successful. And if are recruiting success is increasing as the rankings suggest, why aren't our results improving?
There is increasingly more parity in college basketball and more and more teams competing with less highly regarded talent, so I just find it difficult to understand why Northwestern is unable to compete in 2020 in basketball. The excuses you suggest don't really resonate for me. There's something happening, but I don't think what you suggest is it.
NU recruited poorly for three years — no Big Ten starters from Pardon to Kopp. NU appears to have locked down its third straight pretty good class. (I’ve seen enough of Kopp, Young, Boo, Beran to believe all can become pretty good. Solid hit rate.)
While NU would presumably become a top 4 (?) Big Ten team if PBJ and Christie were to come, the formula that will work in the long run is getting guys in that 50-150 range that develop over time.
I don't know about data but I do know basketball doesn't require facilities and gear that football does. And when you only have to wait only one year to go pro, agents and AAU coaches with no academic ties can have a lot more influence that high school counselors and football coaches. As to the parity, it's great to see. There are a lot of good players out there but how many can qualify academically for NU?
Is the club also as empty? I’ve noticed that the Wilson folks often abandon their seats for the bars, so even when they have a good crowd, most of the time most of it is behind the glass.
Are we also considering the reality of where the support was compared to other schools?
Comparing NU's support of athletics to the past isn't a very high bar to clear.
1) "Consider?" Yes.
Seriously engage? I think you'd have to overpay ... WAY overpay. I think NU has the money. I'll let you decide whether they would actually spend it.
2) Let me clarify one thing about "no guys with only mid-major experience." I'm talking about guys who are mid-major lifers. I'd probably only want the best of the best. Let's say Gregg Marshall as an example, although supposedly he's not going anywhere.
I like Moser, but even he might scare me.
An example of a guy who is a mid-major guy, but not a lifer is Brian Dutcher at San Diego State. Eleven years as an assistant at Michigan, and his time as Fisher's right hand man with his results as HC for the last three years would do it for me.
Well, they are overpaying for the current coach. $3 million a year for 2 winning seasons in 7 ain't exactly fiscal prudence.......
Yes, you can't minimize the importance of getting NU over the hump, given how bad the history and facilities were when CCC came on board.