Yadier Molina is a lock first ballot HOF'er
- Thread starter HymanKaplan_rivals48997
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Been a Cardinal fan since Stan Musial and I like Molina. He probably will, but his career war is less than the average HOF catcher, about 6 less than Ted Simmons who was not first ballot. Yadie gets good press and handles the pitchers well, so that will help him.
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If you buy into "framing metrics" his WAR is more like 55, and he has been the dominant defensive catcher in his league for over a decade.
Can't see how you keep him out. Absolute clutch hitter as well (.328 IIRC in World Series Games)
Can't see how you keep him out. Absolute clutch hitter as well (.328 IIRC in World Series Games)
Yes. Absolutely. Hopefully Molina is vaccinated. If not, he should not be allowed in.
Benito Sandiego could throw out base stealers from his knee on a Joe Niekro knuckleball
My first impression was that Yadier was a much better hitter, but I was surprised to see how close their statistics were. B-R actually has their similarity scores very highly correlated.
I think both were fantastic for a very long period of time, and the more I look into it the more I think they are equally deserving. I also think Molina naturally gets a huge bump from playing for one historic franchise his entire career, whereas Santiago played for like 47 different teams.
I think both were fantastic for a very long period of time, and the more I look into it the more I think they are equally deserving. I also think Molina naturally gets a huge bump from playing for one historic franchise his entire career, whereas Santiago played for like 47 different teams.
I've gone down the "catcher" rabbit hole. I was surprised to learn how pedestrian Carlton Fixk was defensively.
It's criminal that Ted Simmons isn't in. Not as much power as Gary Carter, but his equal in every other way. And not nearly as annoying as that POS rah rah fan boy. Simba liked the yayo a little too much, and I think it affected the last part of his career quite a bit.
I always heard that Herzog traded Simmons because of his pretty well known coke habit, but the irony is, the '82 Cardinals were LOADED with coke-heads. None bigger than Lonnie Smith, Keith Hernandez (plenty of pictures of him torque jawing in the dugout, and smoking heaters,) Tommy Herr, and half the starting rotation. LOL
Also, the gap between Berra/Bench, and everyone else is much wider than I thought.
PTI - I think because Molna was such a great "clutch" hitter, people think he was better with the bat than he actually was.
I still think he should be in, but doing the deep dive, it isn't the no-brainer I thought it was. His WAR is pretty bad.
It's criminal that Ted Simmons isn't in. Not as much power as Gary Carter, but his equal in every other way. And not nearly as annoying as that POS rah rah fan boy. Simba liked the yayo a little too much, and I think it affected the last part of his career quite a bit.
I always heard that Herzog traded Simmons because of his pretty well known coke habit, but the irony is, the '82 Cardinals were LOADED with coke-heads. None bigger than Lonnie Smith, Keith Hernandez (plenty of pictures of him torque jawing in the dugout, and smoking heaters,) Tommy Herr, and half the starting rotation. LOL
Also, the gap between Berra/Bench, and everyone else is much wider than I thought.
PTI - I think because Molna was such a great "clutch" hitter, people think he was better with the bat than he actually was.
I still think he should be in, but doing the deep dive, it isn't the no-brainer I thought it was. His WAR is pretty bad.
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Molina is 2nd all time in dWAR but way down the list on oWAR. His closest comp is Jim Sundberg who isn't in the hall but Molina had several more all star appearances, one more world series ring and was the more dominant player in generation.
I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility he is first ballot but I'd lean towards not....probably 2nd.
At least you aren't arguing that he is better than Bench. A few folks in other threads have brought that up and it is laughable.
I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility he is first ballot but I'd lean towards not....probably 2nd.
At least you aren't arguing that he is better than Bench. A few folks in other threads have brought that up and it is laughable.
Molina better than Bench? LOL
Nobody could actually BELIEVE that...
Nobody could actually BELIEVE that...
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Simmons is in, but via the Veterans Committee route. Had to look it up, but the true crime is that the BWAA idiots didn’t even give him 5% of the vote in his first year of eligibility, and so he became ineligible for entry by traditional means. How the hell could Ted Simmons not get 5%?
Here's my thing. I don't even watch the sport anymore because of how it sold itself out to the home run. From what I know, Molina is a great defensive catcher in an era catchers don't matter because the game has changed to just sit back and wait for the 3 run homer.
Just wait for my rant when they ban the infield shifts in baseball. Why the **** should I have to put a player in a place where your hitter couldn't put it if he wanted to? It's the football equivalent of one team having 4 wide receivers to the right and you legislating that I still have to play 2 defensive backs to the left.
Just wait for my rant when they ban the infield shifts in baseball. Why the **** should I have to put a player in a place where your hitter couldn't put it if he wanted to? It's the football equivalent of one team having 4 wide receivers to the right and you legislating that I still have to play 2 defensive backs to the left.
If Molina does make the Hall, Brandon Phillips should be the one to introduce him.
Disagree. Should have to have at least one participation trophy to get in. No reason to water it down.
After his intro, as Yadi walks up, he could chest kick him off the stage. LOL
(sorry, meant to say he could have Cueto do it. )
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-**** yadi ...that said would've *loved* him if he were a red. Im not a stats nerd...but he doesn't "seem" like a hof'er. Wouldn't bother me if he got in.
Watching baseball would definitely cut down on your killing time.
Well bert, I disagree with your disagreement.
Can you hit a 105 mph speedball blindfolded? Didn't think so
On Baseball Reference, there is a thing called JAWS that is a predictor of ones chances of making the hall. Molina rates number 22. I think there are currently 22 catchers in the hall, so it seems he is a maybe for first ballot. Santiago was if I remember correctly, number 61.
His offense is basically AJ Pierzynski. Great defense but in modern baseball, you have to hit better to be considered a HOFer imo
If he doesn’t get in, how will Chris Carpenter explain it to his son?
StL Cardinals, biggest bunch of babies in pro sports
StL Cardinals, biggest bunch of babies in pro sports
I’m a huge fan of advanced metrics and think that Yadi will get in, but first ballot is reserved for absolute no brainers.
If Molina played for the Devil Rays throughout his career his resume would be laughed out of the discussion.
You sure? The Rays have had their fair share of playoff success. A catcher like Yadi might have helped them win a ring or 2.
Lmao. The stl hate in here by ppl whose teams suck is hysterical. Sry the Cardinals are better than your teams. Catchers of the past have been undervalued in large part to short careers. Catching is brutal on the body compared to all other positions.
Yadi was the best catcher of his generation. One if not the best defensive catcher of all time. One of the best to ever call a game and control the pitching staff. His longevity at that position will be second to none after next yr. Add in the post season resume.
He is essentially the ozzie smith at his position of this generation. The only ones denying he is a first ballot are the one's being petty that route for ****** teams that arent as good as the cards.
Catching is WAY more than offensive stats. He has been the glue to one of the greatest runs in cardinal history the last 17 yrs. You haters dont know because you dont even know baseball is played in october because your teams are never there.
There isnt one naysayer here who wouldnt have loved to have him on their team the last decade and a half.
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Yadi was the best catcher of his generation. One if not the best defensive catcher of all time. One of the best to ever call a game and control the pitching staff. His longevity at that position will be second to none after next yr. Add in the post season resume.
He is essentially the ozzie smith at his position of this generation. The only ones denying he is a first ballot are the one's being petty that route for ****** teams that arent as good as the cards.
Catching is WAY more than offensive stats. He has been the glue to one of the greatest runs in cardinal history the last 17 yrs. You haters dont know because you dont even know baseball is played in october because your teams are never there.
There isnt one naysayer here who wouldnt have loved to have him on their team the last decade and a half.
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People underestimate how much catchers can affect a game outside of hitting and throwing people out. Calling the right pitches in the right spots, framing, etc are just as important.
All that said, he’s a definite hall of famer, but not on the first ballot. That’s reserved for inner circle guys.
What about Hubert Davis? You think he'll make the College Basketball HOF as a coach?
I know he has a special place in MY heart.
I know he has a special place in MY heart.