Your expectations for the new coach/staff?

PSUHarry

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What should we do? We were pretty much all in agreement after Northwestern that it was time to move on from Franklin. I was at that game and could not hear or see anyone saying let's keep him. Everybody wanted him out after that.

Even if Campbell ends up the same, I just don't see Penn State issuing some giant apology to Franklin or begging him to come back. I think the stuff about 10 wins, struggling with OSU, etc. is a legitimate deal, but these days you're not going to have coaches anymore around for 30 years and people wait out bad years hoping for some kind of resurgence.

Most of us seem to be in agreement that it was time for Franklin to leave, and we are glad to see a new coach come in with what appears to be more toughness, more discipline and more intelligence. We were tired of watching the soft, sloppy and bewilderingly stupid at times football that Big Game James continued to be laughed at about after losing almost every game that mattered.
The whole success model is predicated on cash and the proper way to spend it. It's very possible the money Franklin got it appears was mismanaged according to Kraft. But we are still not a top NIL school and may never be. Some coaches who interviewed with Kraft did not share his NIL philosophy and thus not a fit.

If you have comparable or more cash than other teams, deploy it right, and get the right athletes, the 3rd and longs are fewer and farther between, and more easily converted with the right Jimmys and Joes who are hopefully paid in proportion to the rest of the roster. Bottom line, all of this is hard to do, and many teams are trying to figure it out. Think about how late to the game Clemson is. It's becoming less and less about the x's and o's during the game. It still matters, but not as much. It's really about player acquisition and allocating resources correctly.

Campbell is gonna be interesting, though he has a reputation as hard-nosed, he's also a players coach like Franklin. Is he too soft? Time will tell. He's apparently bringing in a skilled GM that will have a big impact on his success. How that GM gets a long with Kraft will be key.
 
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Ram20

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Wonder if Michigan's recent situation changes the feel of that game next year, rumor of Underwood transferring?
 

Ludd

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If a coach consistently loses to similarly matched teams, he should be fired.

When will you realize that Franklin was a mediocre recruiter and terrible coach? He is good for lower level programs with lower expectations because he is a good talker and can ******** fans (such as yourself) into thinking he is special.
Sorry, you lost me at mediocre recruiter. We’ll see how many top 10 classes Campbell recruits.
 

Ludd

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What should we do? We were pretty much all in agreement after Northwestern that it was time to move on from Franklin. I was at that game and could not hear or see anyone saying let's keep him. Everybody wanted him out after that.

Even if Campbell ends up the same, I just don't see Penn State issuing some giant apology to Franklin or begging him to come back. I think the stuff about 10 wins, struggling with OSU, etc. is a legitimate deal, but these days you're not going to have coaches anymore around for 30 years and people wait out bad years hoping for some kind of resurgence.

Most of us seem to be in agreement that it was time for Franklin to leave, and we are glad to see a new coach come in with what appears to be more toughness, more discipline and more intelligence. We were tired of watching the soft, sloppy and bewilderingly stupid at times football that Big Game James continued to be laughed at about after losing almost every game that mattered.
That’s fine, I’m just calling out all the hypocrisy littering this board.
 

CyphaPSU

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Sorry, you lost me at mediocre recruiter. We’ll see how many top 10 classes Campbell recruits.
Franklin had two in 12 years. If Campbell is given roughly the same amount of time, I don't think it would be shocking if he matches that rate. The bigger question is where will Campbell be able to average out in the class rankings from year-to-year. It's a wait and see.
 

PAgeologist

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Franklin had two in 12 years. If Campbell is given roughly the same amount of time, I don't think it would be shocking if he matches that rate. The bigger question is where will Campbell be able to average out in the class rankings from year-to-year. It's a wait and see.
The bigger tell will be if Campbell can actually develop the players. It does no good to get a top 10 class and have almost none of them improve. See Allar, all the WRs riding the bench, etc.
 

BCS PSU

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The bigger tell will be if Campbell can actually develop the players. It does no good to get a top 10 class and have almost none of them improve. See Allar, all the WRs riding the bench, etc.
Amen to that. There's a reason why Cignetti has lost two games in the last two seasons while coaching a team with a bunch of Sun Belt Conference quality players.
 

CyphaPSU

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The bigger tell will be if Campbell can actually develop the players. It does no good to get a top 10 class and have almost none of them improve. See Allar, all the WRs riding the bench, etc.
T-Frank pointed out this week on the podcast, I think correctly, that the lack of QB development taints everyone's view of the previous staff's ability to develop players on the whole. The QB and WR rooms were obvious issues in developing kids, but if we look at the full body of work the previous staff accomplished, they actually did develop a lot of players at various positions on both sides of the ball. Their development track record is not nearly as bad as the QB issue would make it seem, and the evidence are the number of kids they put in the League (often top-10 in drafts when they averaged only top-15 recruiting classes). Their overall development really was not that bad.
 
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EricLAllen

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The bigger tell will be if Campbell can actually develop the players. It does no good to get a top 10 class and have almost none of them improve.

Well, I expect more of a workmanlike culture now. The country club is over. Development requires hard work and discipline. Clearly, the team this past summer sat around way too happy about the hype.
 

rigi19040

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Franklin had two in 12 years. If Campbell is given roughly the same amount of time, I don't think it would be shocking if he matches that rate. The bigger question is where will Campbell be able to average out in the class rankings from year-to-year. It's a wait and see.


2 top 10 for franklin was 2 more than Campbell had. Franklin consistently had top 20 and Campbell had 0 in the top 20 for his career.. Campbell only had ONE class even crack the top 50. Covid year they were ranked 49th.
 

PAgeologist

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T-Frank pointed out this week on the podcast, I think correctly, that the lack of QB development taints everyone's view of the previous staff's ability to develop players on the whole. The QB and WR rooms were obvious issues in developing kids, but if we look at the full body of work the previous staff accomplished, they actually did develop a lot of players at various positions on both sides of the ball. Their development track record is not nearly as bad as the QB issue would make it seem, and the evidence are the number of kids they put in the League (often top-10 in drafts when they averaged only top-15 recruiting classes). Their overall development really was not that bad.
Yes. No ability to develop the most important position on the field-QB. And the guys he throws the ball to. Regardless of everything else, those are 2 huge fails.
 

Binder74

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Amen to that. There's a reason why Cignetti has lost two games in the last two seasons while coaching a team with a bunch of Sun Belt Conference quality players.
A prime example of getting teams to play above their 'skill' level will be on the TV Saturday during the Army-Navy game.
 
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T-Frank pointed out this week on the podcast, I think correctly, that the lack of QB development taints everyone's view of the previous staff's ability to develop players on the whole. The QB and WR rooms were obvious issues in developing kids, but if we look at the full body of work the previous staff accomplished, they actually did develop a lot of players at various positions on both sides of the ball. Their development track record is not nearly as bad as the QB issue would make it seem, and the evidence are the number of kids they put in the League (often top-10 in drafts when they averaged only top-15 recruiting classes). Their overall development really was not that bad.
Like DT, gotcha
 

CyphaPSU

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2 top 10 for franklin was 2 more than Campbell had. Franklin consistently had top 20 and Campbell had 0 in the top 20 for his career.. Campbell only had ONE class even crack the top 50. Covid year they were ranked 49th.
Friend, Franklin didn’t have his first top-20 class until he got to Penn State, either. I’m someone who thinks Franklin is a great recruiter, but let’s be give Campbell a fair shot to prove himself.
 

CyphaPSU

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Yes. No ability to develop the most important position on the field-QB. And the guys he throws the ball to. Regardless of everything else, those are 2 huge fails.
The conversation in this thread needs more nuance than painting with a broad brush due to results from a couple of charismatic megafauna positions. Development can vary widely across position groups.

If Campbell cannot sustain a high blue-chip recruiting ratio, then it’ll make it difficult to compete at the top of the Big Ten on an annual basis because it will lower the ceiling of how far development will take this program. Why settle for debating which more important? If we are want to regularly compete for conference and national championships, then we need to ace both development and recruiting. It’s not a zero sum game, we can and need to be good in both areas to get us over that proverbial hump.
 
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Nitanee1234

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Sorry, you lost me at mediocre recruiter. We’ll see how many top 10 classes Campbell recruits.
If you think he was such an adept recruiter, then what was the problem?? You keep saying he was such a great recruiter, but why didn’t it translate on the field?? (And by ‘field’, I’m talking Top 10 teams…not the pansies we played.)
 

Binder74

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If you think he was such an adept recruiter, then what was the problem?? You keep saying he was such a great recruiter, but why didn’t it translate on the field?? (And by ‘field’, I’m talking Top 10 teams…not the pansies we played.)
He was a good recruiter. He just didn't know what to do with them once he got them.
 

Ludd

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If you think he was such an adept recruiter, then what was the problem?? You keep saying he was such a great recruiter, but why didn’t it translate on the field?? (And by ‘field’, I’m talking Top 10 teams…not the pansies we played.)
If he was such a bad recruiter and player developer, how did he get so many guys into the NFL? Maybe, just maybe, his recruiting rankings are about as high as any PSU coach can get…we’ll find out into the future.
 

PSUHarry

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Wonder if Michigan's recent situation changes the feel of that game next year, rumor of Underwood transferring?
Only team that would the money and interest in Underwood may be LSU. Did you hear any specific rumor?
 

PSUHarry

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Amen to that. There's a reason why Cignetti has lost two games in the last two seasons while coaching a team with a bunch of Sun Belt Conference quality players.
Yeah one of the reasons is they are like 23-24 years old along with his good coaching. He struck lightning in a bottle with Mendoza. That doesn’t happen every day.
 

PSUHarry

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The conversation in this thread needs more nuance than painting with a broad brush due to results from a couple of charismatic megafauna positions. Development can vary widely across position groups.

If Campbell cannot sustain a high blue-chip recruiting ratio, then it’ll make it difficult to compete at the top of the Big Ten on an annual basis because it will lower the ceiling of how far development will take this program. Why settle for debating which more important? If we are want to regularly compete for conference and national championships, then we need to ace both development and recruiting. It’s not a zero sum game, we can and need to be good in both areas to get us over that proverbial hump.
💯
 

PSUHarry

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If you think he was such an adept recruiter, then what was the problem?? You keep saying he was such a great recruiter, but why didn’t it translate on the field?? (And by ‘field’, I’m talking Top 10 teams…not the pansies we pla
We recruited on average around a 15th ranked class and typically finishing around ranked 10-12th in the country at the end of the season. Slightly better than the recruiting ranking or about a wash in some years.
 

PSUHarry

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If he was such a bad recruiter and player developer, how did he get so many guys into the NFL? Maybe, just maybe, his recruiting rankings are about as high as any PSU coach can get…we’ll find out into the future.
I think we rank 8th with current players in the NFL.
 

PSUHarry

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The conversation in this thread needs more nuance than painting with a broad brush due to results from a couple of charismatic megafauna positions. Development can vary widely across position groups.

If Campbell cannot sustain a high blue-chip recruiting ratio, then it’ll make it difficult to compete at the top of the Big Ten on an annual basis because it will lower the ceiling of how far development will take this program. Why settle for debating which more important? If we are want to regularly compete for conference and national championships, then we need to ace both development and recruiting. It’s not a zero sum game, we can and need to be good in both areas to get us over that proverbial hump.
At ISU he did more with less. So the question is can he do more with more here?
 

PSUHarry

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If Campbell keeps it in his pants outside the house, that will be an advantage for us over michigan.
Michigan probably comes out of this with a better coach than Sherrone. We have to hope they can their AD which could significantly hinder their search.

Interesting that LSU fired their coach and AD and landed their coach quickly. It’s just different down there.
 

Moogy

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Agree! I always thought saying explosive plays were your goal was like saying your goal was to be rich. You typically don’t get rich by wanting to be rich. You have to actually be able to do something really well. And to get explosive plays you have to move the ball successfully enough to force the defense to take some risks and make themselves vulnerable to stop it.
You could say “saying your goal is to move the ball successfully enough to force the defense to take some risks is like saying your goal was to be rich.”

Same thing.

Everyone knows you have to do certain things to be explosive … or efficient … or whatever you want to be … but no one’s going to go into those details. That would be foolish.

There’s nothing wrong with saying you want to accomplish the things that most closely correlate with wins.

Some folks just aren’t as ready to embrace change. They feel they’re being left behind and then they become resentful. “We gotta be tough” resonates more with them.
 

CyphaPSU

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At ISU he did more with less. So the question is can he do more with more here?
As long as he maximizes the "more" part as it pertains to recruiting, then we should be fine. I know Campbell has his process and it has worked at Toledo and ISU, but he will obviously need to marry that to the greater access to higher caliber players who would consider PSU. It's an adjustment for any coach in his situation, and it will be interesting to see who they start offering and prioritizing in the 2027 class. If star ratings can be thought of even as a rough proxy for caliber, then hopefully "stars," which are "cool on signing day" according to Campbell, kind of do help them be all about winning football games on Saturday in the Big Ten and beyond. Again, it will be interesting to see how he and his assembled staff get off and running with recruiting.
 

PSUFTG

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Michigan probably comes out of this with a better coach than Sherrone. We have to hope they can their AD which could significantly hinder their search.

Interesting that LSU fired their coach and AD and landed their coach quickly. It’s just different down there.
Yep. They certainly have an unholy crap storm to deal with right now.

In isolation - moving on from Moore to another coach asap is probably good for Michigan (I expect they can "do better") But having it transpire this way is, obviously, not good.
 
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PSU4U

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The whole success model is predicated on cash and the proper way to spend it. It's very possible the money Franklin got it appears was mismanaged according to Kraft. But we are still not a top NIL school and may never be. Some coaches who interviewed with Kraft did not share his NIL philosophy and thus not a fit.

If you have comparable or more cash than other teams, deploy it right, and get the right athletes, the 3rd and longs are fewer and farther between, and more easily converted with the right Jimmys and Joes who are hopefully paid in proportion to the rest of the roster. Bottom line, all of this is hard to do, and many teams are trying to figure it out. Think about how late to the game Clemson is. It's becoming less and less about the x's and o's during the game. It still matters, but not as much. It's really about player acquisition and allocating resources correctly.

Campbell is gonna be interesting, though he has a reputation as hard-nosed, he's also a players coach like Franklin. Is he too soft? Time will tell. He's apparently bringing in a skilled GM that will have a big impact on his success. How that GM gets a long with Kraft will be key.
I read one report that had us at 4th in the Big for NIL and I think 9th nationally. 4th in the Big sounds about right to me. But like you said/suggested you don't have to be number one if you use your funds to maximum efficiency.
 

PSUHarry

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I read one report that had us at 4th in the Big for NIL and I think 9th nationally. 4th in the Big sounds about right to me. But like you said/suggested you don't have to be number one if you use your funds to maximum efficiency.

Not sure about 4th in the BIG, would make sense though, but that doesn't mean we are that close to OSU. 9th Nationally? No way. We are probably about 15- 20 from what I've seen and what @NateBauer has reported.
 
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Big_O

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I read one report that had us at 4th in the Big for NIL and I think 9th nationally. 4th in the Big sounds about right to me. But like you said/suggested you don't have to be number one if you use your funds to maximum efficiency.
I think that’s about right. O$U>Oregon>UM>Penn State from what I have seen around the internet. I saw where O$U was first in NIL money this year with $40 million going to pay players on their football team.