Zion got even fatter
- Thread starter ASAPKrzyzewski
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I knew there was one obvious one I was forgetting.
Zion was still better.
I'd rate Battier ahead of Durant, not because he's a better pure player but the combination of his all-around game (very good offensive player and an astoundingly good defensive player, huge edge there over Durant) plus his senior year accomplishments.
Battier was absolutely a better college player best season for best season. Early entry has definitely robbed us of some potentially incredible seasons.
That being said, Zion’s season, OAD or not, was one of the best ever.
If we're taking one individual season, I might go with this:
1st Team
Kemba Walker, UConn (2011)
JJ Redick, Duke (2006)
Kevin Durant, Texas (2007)
Zion Williamson, Duke (2019)
Anthony Davis, Kentucky (2012)
2nd Team
Jimmer Fredette, BYU (2011)
Buddy Hield, Oklahoma (2016)
Doug McDermott, Creighton (2014)
Shane Battier, Duke (2001)
Blake Griffin, Oklahoma (2009)
3rd Team
Jason Williams, Duke (2002)
Denzel Valentine, Michigan State (2016)
Evan Turner, Ohio State (2010)
David West, Xavier (2003)
Tyler Hansbrough, UNC (2008)
1st Team
Kemba Walker, UConn (2011)
JJ Redick, Duke (2006)
Kevin Durant, Texas (2007)
Zion Williamson, Duke (2019)
Anthony Davis, Kentucky (2012)
2nd Team
Jimmer Fredette, BYU (2011)
Buddy Hield, Oklahoma (2016)
Doug McDermott, Creighton (2014)
Shane Battier, Duke (2001)
Blake Griffin, Oklahoma (2009)
3rd Team
Jason Williams, Duke (2002)
Denzel Valentine, Michigan State (2016)
Evan Turner, Ohio State (2010)
David West, Xavier (2003)
Tyler Hansbrough, UNC (2008)
There have been 29 players win the NPOY this century, if you include the award winners from Naismith, Wooden, AP, NABC, and Sporting News. TSN was the only major publication to even have Carmelo as a 1st Team All-American. He was a 2nd Team All-American by everyone else. He was a great offensive threat - and he had a heckuva tournament in 2003. But he did not have one of the top 15 seasons this century. IMO. His shooting percentages actually weren't that great, to be honest.
27 points a game from a guy that was on the #1 team for all but four weeks in the 2006 season, yes.
Really? Redick averaged 26.8 PPG, 52% from 2 point FG's, 42% from 3 point FG's, 1.4 steals per game, shot 86% from the foul line (avg 91% in college), 37 minutes per game and his range was once he entered the gym.
That's hard to beat.
Lol... the guy was so good his senior season he was the first college basketball player to win the Sullivan Award (awarded to the most outstanding amateur athlete in the United States) since Bill Walton.
So yeah, he's on the first list.
In the MSG parking lot sill waiting on Little to get drafted.
Good list overall but I can't have Jay Williams that low. I know I'm biased but I'd take him over Walker on the first team.
Hell I'd take a sophomore Jay Williams over Walker. Battier won every major national player of the year award in 2001, except one... the NABC player of the year. That one went to Williams. Even the coaches knew how outstanding he was as a sophomore.
He was also a two-time consensus first-team all-american.
It's debatable. I could see arguments for both sides. If we're talking about careers, then I would give the nod to Jay. I'm simply comparing 2002 to 2011. I think Kemba did more with less in those respective years. He had 9.7 win shares compared to Jay's 6.3. And Kemba had much better ball control than J-Will.
^ And I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone carry his team as much as Kemba Walker carried UConn in 2011.
One of the worst championship games I’ve seen. Kansas shot 4-20 on threes and 12-30 on FT. Still only lost by 3 points. 31 assists to 35 turnovers overall. Cuse shot 42% on 2-pointers (11-18 on threes won it).
Agreed.
But I'm still riding with Jay-dub. ;-)
And I certainly agree it's debatable.
r.j hairestein would have been if hof coach roy williams had not made him run so much. See where that got him? OFC
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The inherent problem with using NPOY, AA, etc awards is that those awards are voted on before the end of the season, sometimes before the beginning of postseason. Where would Carmelo have been rated on April 15, 2003 as opposed to March 15, 2003?
Consider the case of Ralph Sampson. He was three-time national POY. Three times. That would put him the discussion for best college player ever.
But when we factor in his relative lack of post-season success after those awards were voted on, I don't think anyone would have Sampson up with Alcindor/Jabbar, Walton, Thompson, Bird, Magic Johnson, Robertson, Hayes, Jerry Lucas, Christian Laettner or many others who did have significant post-season success.
And then we have to consider the difficulty of comparing OADs like Anthony, Durant, Davis and Williamson to multi-year players like Redick or Fredette.
So, it's fun. But defining the parameters is a bit tricky. Devil, details and all that.
I agree with most of what you're saying. That's why I specifically stated I was only basing my 15 best players this century off of one season. Jason Williams had a better career than Kemba. No question. I was judging the players for a single season. As far as Carmelo, yes, very likely he would have been 1st Team after the tournament. But as I mentioned earlier, he still didn't have great shooting numbers. And I don't remember how he was in college, but he was never an elite defender in the NBA.
45.3% fg
33.7% 3-pt
70.6% ft
Carmelo had an effective fg% below 50%, which isn't great. Seemed like a lot of people complained about Grayson Allen shooting poorly his senior year. Well, Grayson's efg% was 53.6% in 2018, much better than Carmelo's - just to provide a little perspective. TJ Ford won most of the POY awards in 2003. I would have voted for David West, myself. Also, I would note that I had Kemba ahead of Jimmer, even though Jimmer won NPOY. Kemba had the better season, IMO. But yes, it is tricky to make some of these comparisons.
Zion may have ruined college basketball for me, ya'll. I'm still not as excited for the season to start as I usually am by this point.
I feel ya, I told my wife that last night at supper. For some reason it's just doesn't seem right. I'm sure once C2C starts I'll get excited....I hope
^ That tugs at the old heartstrings.
I can think of few players who were more worthy of the Final Four. His unique combination of charisma, showmanship, personality, sublime athleticism, and eminently stellar play were made for that venue.
And I'll never get over the fact that we didn't make it there. For all our guys of course, but especially him.
I can think of few players who were more worthy of the Final Four. His unique combination of charisma, showmanship, personality, sublime athleticism, and eminently stellar play were made for that venue.
And I'll never get over the fact that we didn't make it there. For all our guys of course, but especially him.
Glad to see Zion back at Duke, hanging with the team!
I'm sure once the season starts I'll be excited. I felt that same way after that 99 season, then JWill and Co rolled in and kept the excitement rolling.
