Tennessee private schools are just quitting the TSSAA

[615dawg]

Over three schools recruiting. It’s gotten so bad that a school in Chattanooga has players from Nashville.

several private schools including MUS and CPA have said enough is enough and will play an “independent” football schedule in the next cycle. MUS has played Prep recently and CPA played Tupelo earlier this week.

All this is happening in Tennessee and Alabama and the MAIS is letting a great opportunity to fix its issues pass them by. Alabama and the Florida panhandle will start the Gulf Coast ISA for next year.

Prep, JA, Hartford’s and MRA still want to compete for their state championship of four when there could be a pretty good Southern association of independent schools and make a decent championship system.

 

[johnson86-1]

Over three schools recruiting. It’s gotten so bad that a school in Chattanooga has players from Nashville.

several private schools including MUS and CPA have said enough is enough and will play an “independent” football schedule in the next cycle. MUS has played Prep recently and CPA played Tupelo earlier this week.

All this is happening in Tennessee and Alabama and the MAIS is letting a great opportunity to fix its issues pass them by. Alabama and the Florida panhandle will start the Gulf Coast ISA for next year.

Prep, JA, Hartford’s and MRA still want to compete for their state championship of four when there could be a pretty good Southern association of independent schools and make a decent championship system.

Nashville to the Florida panhandle to Jackson is too big for a high school championship system.

 

[patdog]

Nashville to the Florida panhandle to Jackson is too big for a high school championship system.

Yeah. That’s a LOT of travel for hs sports. Maybe for football it could work. Not for all sports though. If the 4 Jackson schools could add the Memphis schools & maybe Nashville it might work.

 

[M R DAWGS]

Why would they want to decrease their chance of getting that coveted trophy?

They all have a 25% chance as it stands.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Nashville to the Florida panhandle to Jackson is too big for a high school championship system.

If you had enough participants it would be doable but it’s not enough right now.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Yeah. That’s a LOT of travel for hs sports. Maybe for football it could work. Not for all sports though. If the 4 Jackson schools could add the Memphis schools & maybe Nashville it might work.

That’s still a lot of travel. That was the whole reason my high school, SBEC (now Northpoint) went back to TSSAA when I was in 9th grade. The travel in MAIS (MPSA at that time) was pretty insane.

 

[SoJxnVol]

Hillcrest played Brentwood Academy in 06. MUS let us use their field for a walk through. Awesome experience!

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Nashville to the Florida panhandle to Jackson is too big for a high school championship system.

If your private school doesn’t charter its own jets for away games, are you really exclusive enough?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Maybe if the TSSAA could penalize those recruiting schools by putting them in the other division so that they had play by the public schools’ no scholarship grant rules something could happen… **

Seriously though, I know there’s wishful thinking about expanded private school leagues because they look cool from the outside.

That said, having been on a bus that traveled from Heidelberg to Plain Dealing, Louisiana and back for a playoff game, I wouldn’t want to wish such competitions on my worst enemies…

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Over three schools recruiting. It’s gotten so bad that a school in Chattanooga has players from Nashville.

several private schools including MUS and CPA have said enough is enough and will play an “independent” football schedule in the next cycle. MUS has played Prep recently and CPA played Tupelo earlier this week.

All this is happening in Tennessee and Alabama and the MAIS is letting a great opportunity to fix its issues pass them by. Alabama and the Florida panhandle will start the Gulf Coast ISA for next year.

Prep, JA, Hartford’s and MRA still want to compete for their state championship of four when there could be a pretty good Southern association of independent schools and make a decent championship system.

Friend of mine's son is a good ball player, and has been asked to be on a couple of those teams that were crootin from afar in TN. They even have NIL.

I think the Gulf Coast ISA is a good idea for football only. But I still think MS could solve some issues with that 'open' division like Florida is doing. But the Big 4 will still weasel out of it so, like others have said, they can have their cute little travel ball tournament for a state championship.

 

[johnson86-1]

Yeah. That’s a LOT of travel for hs sports. Maybe for football it could work. Not for all sports though. If the 4 Jackson schools could add the Memphis schools & maybe Nashville it might work.

Even for football, a three hour trip is a haul to do regularly. But it’s probably doable. I don’t think you can have any reasonable league with Jackson and nashvile in it though.
Even if parents are affluent enough that staying in a hotel for most of the away games isn’t a problem, needing to take a vacation day to get to an away football game by kickoff s a couple of times a season, in addition to needing to leave shortly after lunch for most away games, is just too much

 

[mstateglfr]

It is interesting to see how muddied and convoluted the HS sports system is between public and private schools in MS, and even bordering states.
I know MS will have a 1.5 multiplier for private schools next year- hopefully that results in fewer complaints about the system as a whole.

States without a multiplier manage to have HS athletics where publics and privates play one another and its competitive.
States with a multiplier manage to have HS athletics where publics and privates play one another and its competitive.


Since my state's legislature made it legal for kids to open enroll out of district to any school at any time of year(which 17s with finances and causes chaos, due to laws the legislature created), public schools are also able to be stacked. If someone played varsity in a sport at their old school and wants to transfer(without moving), they just need to be at the new school for a semester before they can play varsity in that sport.
As a result, you have public HS girls volleyball teams with 5-7 D1 early commits...and a few more who will be D2 or NAIA players.

 

[vhdawg]

Hillcrest played Brentwood Academy in 06. MUS let us use their field for a walk through. Awesome experience!

Oh man, I miss my school having football.

 

[8dog]

That’s still a lot of travel. That was the whole reason my high school, SBEC (now Northpoint) went back to TSSAA when I was in 9th grade. The travel in MAIS (MPSA at that time) was pretty insane.

I would like them to consider having one governing body but the states would be their own division. Then each state can send 1 or 2 teams to the playoffs in each sport. Not perfect but better than what we currently have.

 

[johnson86-1]

It is interesting to see how muddied and convoluted the HS sports system is between public and private schools in MS, and even bordering states.
I know MS will have a 1.5 multiplier for private schools next year- hopefully that results in fewer complaints about the system as a whole.

I assume that's just going to push private schools out of the public division. That's a massive multiplier for schools that don't recruit. Even for the schools that pick up extra athletes because they have decent public schools and get guys that transfer to the private school, they also have the opposite situation where good players leave the private school for better competition and/or exposure. Basketball and baseball were different, but at my high school when I was growing up, we played against schools that we were 25% bigger than and teams that were 25% bigger than us and for the most part, the results were pretty consistent. You'd have an occasional upset, and occasionally you'd have an especially good or bad team that outperformed or underperformed their size, but being 25% bigger pretty much meant you were going to beat that school in football. I would assume being 50% bigger is going to make it impossible to overcome for the most part. I don't know, maybe it isn't as pronounced when you are getting to bigger schools, but if you are talking about schools with 80 people in a class versus 100 people in a class or 64 versus 80 in a class, that 25% seemed to be a big difference. I would assume a school with 80 in a class is going to consistently get their *** kicked by a school with 120 in each class. Maybe it's not as pronounced in public schools where being larger doesn't also necessarily mean you can afford better coaches.

States without a multiplier manage to have HS athletics where publics and privates play one another and its competitive.
States with a multiplier manage to have HS athletics where publics and privates play one another and its competitive.


Since my state's legislature made it legal for kids to open enroll out of district to any school at any time of year(which 17s with finances and causes chaos, due to laws the legislature created), public schools are also able to be stacked. If someone played varsity in a sport at their old school and wants to transfer(without moving), they just need to be at the new school for a semester before they can play varsity in that sport.
As a result, you have public HS girls volleyball teams with 5-7 D1 early commits...and a few more who will be D2 or NAIA players.

 

[patdog]

It is interesting to see how muddied and convoluted the HS sports system is between public and private schools in MS, and even bordering states.
I know MS will have a 1.5 multiplier for private schools next year- hopefully that results in fewer complaints about the system as a whole.

States without a multiplier manage to have HS athletics where publics and privates play one another and its competitive.
States with a multiplier manage to have HS athletics where publics and privates play one another and its competitive.


Since my state's legislature made it legal for kids to open enroll out of district to any school at any time of year(which 17s with finances and causes chaos, due to laws the legislature created), public schools are also able to be stacked. If someone played varsity in a sport at their old school and wants to transfer(without moving), they just need to be at the new school for a semester before they can play varsity in that sport.
As a result, you have public HS girls volleyball teams with 5-7 D1 early commits...and a few more who will be D2 or NAIA players.

That's great for the rich schools getting all the transfers they can pick and choose which ones to take. But destroys what little was left of the majority of schools.

 

[615dawg]

Four Pods

Memphis/Jackson
Middle Tennessee
North Alabama/East Tennessee
Birmingham/Mobile/Pensacola


Enough teams for these pods to have their own season, play a crossover game or two. Pods would have a championship game, and that winner would go to a four team playoff.

The Memphis/Jackson pod could look like this:


MRA
Prep
Jackson Academy
St. Joe Madison
Hartfield

Memphis University School
Northpoint Christian
Christian Brothers
Evangelical Christian
Harding

Jackson teams would play all four Jackson teams and two Memphis teams every year. Could play two crossover games and two independent games (MHSAA or old MAIS opponents)

Jackson area champion and Memphis area champion play a championship type game. Winner goes on to a 4 team playoff against the other pods. If you are a Jackson-area team, you are looking at:

1 definite trip to Memphis area every season
1 definite trip to Mobile/Birmingham/Huntsville/Nashville every season

1 possible playoff trip to Memphis
1 possible playoff trip to Mobile/Birmingham/Huntsville/Nashville every season

Its not any more travel than they are doing now anyway.

 

[patdog]

Four Pods

Memphis/Jackson
Middle Tennessee
North Alabama/East Tennessee
Birmingham/Mobile/Pensacola


Enough teams for these pods to have their own season, play a crossover game or two. Pods would have a championship game, and that winner would go to a four team playoff.

The Memphis/Jackson pod could look like this:


MRA
Prep
Jackson Academy
St. Joe Madison
Hartfield

Memphis University School
Northpoint Christian
Christian Brothers
Evangelical Christian
Harding

Jackson teams would play all four Jackson teams and two Memphis teams every year. Could play two crossover games and two independent games (MHSAA or old MAIS opponents)

Jackson area champion and Memphis area champion play a championship type game. Winner goes on to a 4 team playoff against the other pods. If you are a Jackson-area team, you are looking at:

1 definite trip to Memphis area every season
1 definite trip to Mobile/Birmingham/Huntsville/Nashville every season

1 possible playoff trip to Memphis
1 possible playoff trip to Mobile/Birmingham/Huntsville/Nashville every season

Its not any more travel than they are doing now anyway.

Good lord man, leave St. Joe out of this. They're a doormat in the next classification down from the big 4.

 

[Prediction? Pain.]

I hadn't heard that the private schools had left the TSSAA yet. But their beef has become public recently. Here's an article from a newspaper in Chattanooga -- the city where two of the three dominant teams in Tennessee, which both have boarding students and local students, are located -- about the angst among private school coaches in the state. Excerpt to give you a flavor of what's happening:

At the heart of the issue is an unwillingness to be forced to play in Tennessee’s toughest prep football classification because of a competitive imbalance. Specifically mentioned was the desire to avoid having to compete against what was termed “the big three football factories” of Baylor School, Brentwood Academy and McCallie School.

One of those three programs has won every football state championship in the class for more than a decade, with either Baylor or McCallie winning the past seven DII-AAA titles after Brentwood Academy won the four before that.

The last time any other team won the title was Nashville’s Montgomery Bell Academy in 2014.

“Not all Division II teams are operating under the same system anymore,” one local football coach of a Division II-AA (mid-sized private) program told the Times Free Press while speaking on the condition of anonymity. “Let’s be blunt, if you’re in that AAA division, you know what it is. You’re part of a league of football factories. There’s a view out there that some schools in the state have just started buying the best players they can bring in.

“They’re paying to house families in apartments and basically just buying rosters like a college program would. The rest of us don’t want to be a part of that, and the TSSAA should not force other teams, whose mission doesn’t allow for that, to play in that league . . . .”

“The bottom line is there are a lot of schools out there who are just sick of dealing with Baylor, BA and McCallie. Everyone who looks at those three teams can see that it’s not a level playing field anymore. We’re not even playing the same game.”

 

[patdog]

I hadn't heard that the private schools had left the TSSAA yet. But their beef has become public recently. Here's an article from a newspaper in Chattanooga -- the city where two of the three dominant teams in Tennessee, which both have boarding students and local students, are located -- about the angst among private school coaches in the state. Excerpt to give you a flavor of what's happening:

And this is the way to deal with schools like those 3 and the big 4 private schools in Mississippi. Simply refuse to play them and let them find games with comparable schools who are recruiting to the extent they are.

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

Maybe if the TSSAA could penalize those recruiting schools by putting them in the other division so that they had play by the public schools’ no scholarship grant rules something could happen… **

Seriously though, I know there’s wishful thinking about expanded private school leagues because they look cool from the outside.

That said, having been on a bus that traveled from Heidelberg to Plain Dealing, Louisiana and back for a playoff game, I wouldn’t want to wish such competitions on my worst enemies…

Funny story about Plain Dealing. My referee crew had them at Trinity in an early season game when Riddley was a senior. PD had no business playing them because they only had 13 players.
TES won 62-0, and when we were exiting the field an elderly man from the PD side approached us. We spoke, and he nodded. When we walked past some 15 feet, he yelled, YELLED, "How does it feel to take one from our boys????" Our back judge, who is quick witted, turned around and said, "That's what happens when you put a close game in the hands of the officials," turned around and walked off. It was classic.

 

[8dog]

Four Pods

Memphis/Jackson
Middle Tennessee
North Alabama/East Tennessee
Birmingham/Mobile/Pensacola


Enough teams for these pods to have their own season, play a crossover game or two. Pods would have a championship game, and that winner would go to a four team playoff.

The Memphis/Jackson pod could look like this:


MRA
Prep
Jackson Academy
St. Joe Madison
Hartfield

Memphis University School
Northpoint Christian
Christian Brothers
Evangelical Christian
Harding

Jackson teams would play all four Jackson teams and two Memphis teams every year. Could play two crossover games and two independent games (MHSAA or old MAIS opponents)

Jackson area champion and Memphis area champion play a championship type game. Winner goes on to a 4 team playoff against the other pods. If you are a Jackson-area team, you are looking at:

1 definite trip to Memphis area every season
1 definite trip to Mobile/Birmingham/Huntsville/Nashville every season

1 possible playoff trip to Memphis
1 possible playoff trip to Mobile/Birmingham/Huntsville/Nashville every season

Its not any more travel than they are doing now anyway.

That just seems way too unbalanced. I mean the difference in ECS and MUS in football is pretty vast. And St. Joe is not in that conversation.

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

Prep, JA, MRA and Hartfield need to join this new Mid-South League or whatever it is called. Leave MAIS and allow it to re-classify to a more sustainable competition level for each school.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I assume that's just going to push private schools out of the public division. That's a massive multiplier for schools that don't recruit.

Any school that doesn't recruit isn't going to be interested in playing public. So that takes care of itself.

Only reason a private would play public is because they want to be as good at sports as possible and play better competition.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Four Pods

Memphis/Jackson
Middle Tennessee
North Alabama/East Tennessee
Birmingham/Mobile/Pensacola


Enough teams for these pods to have their own season, play a crossover game or two. Pods would have a championship game, and that winner would go to a four team playoff.

The Memphis/Jackson pod could look like this:


MRA
Prep
Jackson Academy
St. Joe Madison
Hartfield

Memphis University School
Northpoint Christian
Christian Brothers
Evangelical Christian
Harding

Jackson teams would play all four Jackson teams and two Memphis teams every year. Could play two crossover games and two independent games (MHSAA or old MAIS opponents)

Jackson area champion and Memphis area champion play a championship type game. Winner goes on to a 4 team playoff against the other pods. If you are a Jackson-area team, you are looking at:

1 definite trip to Memphis area every season
1 definite trip to Mobile/Birmingham/Huntsville/Nashville every season

1 possible playoff trip to Memphis
1 possible playoff trip to Mobile/Birmingham/Huntsville/Nashville every season

It’s not any more travel than they are doing now anyway.

You don’t know much about the Memphis metro private schools. Northpoint and ECS would get destroyed in that. MUS and CBHS are a whole other level.

 

[aTotal360]

My son did a lacrosse camp this past summer at Baylor School. WOW. It was nicer than State when I was there.

Their facilities are good enough that the Spanish football team HQed out of it for the WC.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

You don’t know much about the Memphis metro private schools. Northpoint and ECS would get destroyed in that. MUS and CBHS are a whole other level.

These are the majority of the private schools in Tennessee that play football.

Football - DIVISION II ATHLETICS

www.tndiiathletics.com

 

[mstateglfr]

That's great for the rich schools getting all the transfers they can pick and choose which ones to take. But destroys what little was left of the majority of schools.

To be clear, I was not advocating for the system that exists in my state. Just stating what the reality here is.

 

[Prediction? Pain.]

My son did a lacrosse camp this past summer at Baylor School. WOW. It was nicer than State when I was there.

Their facilities are good enough that the Spanish football team HQed out of it for the WC.

My kids have done summer camp at Baylor as well, and yeah, the campus is fancy. So is McCallie's, which is on the other side of downtown. But for what they charge, dude, it should be:

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

My kids have done summer camp at Baylor as well, and yeah, the campus is fancy. So is McCallie's, which is on the other side of downtown. But for what they charge, dude, it should be:

Baylor school is like the stereotyped boarding school from tv and movies

 

[patdog]

Baylor school is like the stereotyped boarding school from tv and movies

So I'm assuming lots of shenanigans with hot young students seducing reluctant older male faculty then?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

My kids have done summer camp at Baylor as well, and yeah, the campus is fancy. So is McCallie's, which is on the other side of downtown. But for what they charge, dude, it should be:

Yep.

I mentioned last year that Baylor & McCallie aren’t Mississippi “private schools”…

…but are actual private schools with Gravitas

 

[gtowndawg]

You don’t know much about the Memphis metro private schools. Northpoint and ECS would get destroyed in that. MUS and CBHS are a whole other level.

Briarcrest has left all of them in the dust recruiting wise. MUS and CBHS can't even keep up, much less ECS. ECS has made a committment to bring in "mission fit" kids and if it means they lose some games than so be it. Briarcrest is 100% committed to winning state titles in every sport and that's their mission.

*We've had kids graduate from both Briarcrest and ECS recently. Both great schools but in totally different places at this point in time.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Briarcrest has left all of them in the dust recruiting wise. MUS and CBHS can't even keep up, much less ECS. ECS has made a committment to bring in "mission fit" kids and if it means they lose some games than so be it. Briarcrest is 100% committed to winning state titles in every sport and that's their mission.

*We've had kids graduate from both Briarcrest and ECS recently. Both great schools but in totally different places at this point in time.

When we first moved back to TSSAA we had to play Briarcrest and ECS for division games. We would dress out about 30 players and they’d have 70.

 

[L4Dawg]

Over three schools recruiting. It’s gotten so bad that a school in Chattanooga has players from Nashville.

several private schools including MUS and CPA have said enough is enough and will play an “independent” football schedule in the next cycle. MUS has played Prep recently and CPA played Tupelo earlier this week.

All this is happening in Tennessee and Alabama and the MAIS is letting a great opportunity to fix its issues pass them by. Alabama and the Florida panhandle will start the Gulf Coast ISA for next year.

Prep, JA, Hartford’s and MRA still want to compete for their state championship of four when there could be a pretty good Southern association of independent schools and make a decent championship system.

Hopefully that spreads to the remaining private schools in the MHSAA.

 

[johnson86-1]

Any school that doesn't recruit isn't going to be interested in playing public. So that takes care of itself.

Only reason a private would play public is because they want to be as good at sports as possible and play better competition.

Catholic schools have historically liked playing public. The private schools in areas without a tradition of private schools might be interested in playing public to reduce travel. But they may not be able to find small enough public schools nearby for that to help.
But yea im guessing most private schools in Mississippi are content to be in their own league if they can get away from being out in the same conference as the schools that recruit.

 

[kphall11]

My kids have done summer camp at Baylor as well, and yeah, the campus is fancy. So is McCallie's, which is on the other side of downtown. But for what they charge, dude, it should be:

Baylor school is where Peyton Mannings kid goes now.

 

[patdog]

Catholic schools have historically liked playing public. The private schools in areas without a tradition of private schools might be interested in playing public to reduce travel. But they may not be able to find small enough public schools nearby for that to help.
But yea im guessing most private schools in Mississippi are content to be in their own league if they can get away from being out in the same conference as the schools that recruit.

Catholic schools left MHSAA several years ago over a dispute over Natchez Vicksburg & Greenville schools taking student from just across the river.

 

[johnson86-1]

Catholic schools left MHSAA several years ago over a dispute over Natchez Vicksburg & Greenville schools taking student from just across the river.

I think that was just the river town schools and at Joe. The coastal catholic schools and Hattiesburg still play public I believe. But that was apparently just the first step in chasing all private schools out. I’m assuming the south Mississippi catholic schools will have to leave also if they are going to apply 1.5 multiplier. Or else start recruiting. (Or does Stanislaus already recruit?)

 

[patdog]

I think that was just the river town schools and at Joe. The coastal catholic schools and Hattiesburg still play public I believe. But that was apparently just the first step in chasing all private schools out. I’m assuming the south Mississippi catholic schools will have to leave also if they are going to apply 1.5 multiplier. Or else start recruiting. (Or does Stanislaus already recruit?)

Madison St Joe left with the river schools. I think you’re right about Hattiesburg & coast schools. Good correction.