OT: Tennessee botches an execution

[Drebin]

Blame Thomas Jefferson, I guess?

If he's the reason, yeah. But I suspect it's not so much his fault as it is some overtly dishonest interpretation or application of what he said. We were doing proper executions in this country well into the 70s and 80s.

 

[HailStout]

Seems like with all the fentanyl on the street, we could just move that to one step? Would just progressively over dosing somebody with a opioid not be a very humane method? Or does the body react and become alert at some point?

Sounds like the IV infiltrated

Good call.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

Not necessarily. I’ll tell you my goat story. Management and supervisors used to cook for our employees once per year. Always something on the big company grill, sometimes steak,sometimes chicken, or sometimes bbq. A group of employees wanted a bbq goat in addition to pulled pork and we agreed. None of us had ever cooked goat but a couple of us had cooked whole hog before so how hard could it be. We bought a goat from a local farmer and had it delivered at quitting time one afternoon, we were cooking overnight for lunch the following day.
One guy gets a 22 pistol from his truck and shoots the goat in the top of its head, it drops like a rock. We go inside the building to get a forklift to string it up and clean it. We come out with the forklift and the goat is gone. Luckily we’re in a fenced in area and we proceeded to chase the goat down and catch it. We tote it back to the forklift and after much ridicule to the guy with the gun he shoots it twice more in the head.
We string the goat up by its hind legs and a couple of guys start cleaning it. They get the hide about half way down and the goat starts bleating and kicking. Someone quickly cuts its throat. None of the three 22 bullets had fully penetrated the goats skull, we performed a field autopsy. The next day at lunch everyone is eating and you hear someone bleating like a goat, the employees didn’t have a clue but one of the cleaning and cooking crew puked and the rest of us just laughed. Shoot me with something more powerful than a 22 or make it a heart shot.

Man that sounds like the deer that tried to get out of the back of the truck after I shot him. Goats and deer don't have large brains, so the blood going to their head is less than a human. Cutting the throat is slower than ideal, but it works. The goat story sounds like a really tough day man. I hate to see animals suffer. Glad you guys still had the stomach to eat it.

 

[vhdawg]

Not necessarily. I’ll tell you my goat story. Management and supervisors used to cook for our employees once per year. Always something on the big company grill, sometimes steak,sometimes chicken, or sometimes bbq. A group of employees wanted a bbq goat in addition to pulled pork and we agreed. None of us had ever cooked goat but a couple of us had cooked whole hog before so how hard could it be. We bought a goat from a local farmer and had it delivered at quitting time one afternoon, we were cooking overnight for lunch the following day.
One guy gets a 22 pistol from his truck and shoots the goat in the top of its head, it drops like a rock. We go inside the building to get a forklift to string it up and clean it. We come out with the forklift and the goat is gone. Luckily we’re in a fenced in area and we proceeded to chase the goat down and catch it. We tote it back to the forklift and after much ridicule to the guy with the gun he shoots it twice more in the head.
We string the goat up by its hind legs and a couple of guys start cleaning it. They get the hide about half way down and the goat starts bleating and kicking. Someone quickly cuts its throat. None of the three 22 bullets had fully penetrated the goats skull, we performed a field autopsy. The next day at lunch everyone is eating and you hear someone bleating like a goat, the employees didn’t have a clue but one of the cleaning and cooking crew puked and the rest of us just laughed. Shoot me with something more powerful than a 22 or make it a heart shot.

When my dad was in JPD in the 70s they got a call one time for an injured horse somewhere....I don't know the details, maybe it had gotten out and hit by a car or something, but nevertheless it was injured standing and needed to be put down. Dad was 6'5" and a certified distinguished expert marksman with a pistol. He told the guy, I've never had to do this before, but show me where I need to shoot it and I'll shoot it there.

So the guy points where to shoot the horse in the head and dad bullseyes it. Horse stays standing. What the hell? I don't know, shoot it again. So he does. I think this continues once or twice more, and by this time it's a gory mess. Horse is still standing. Dad's like I don't know what to do.

Finally Dad looks at his partner, who was five foot something, and says I don't know, you try it. Partner shoots the horse in the exact same spot as dad did. Horse falls down immediately.

Apparently Dad being tall, the angle was wrong, and he was missing the horse's brain. Shorter cop had the correct angle, and down went the horse.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

Should've rushed her to the Tupelo hospital. They'd finish the job.

They should name that hospital Hotel California

 

[GloryDawg]

I think if you sentence to death the evidence must be ironclad. If someone is exonerated after they are executed, that’s as bad as the murder itself.

Does it take 30 years to know?

 

[dawgman42]

Nm

 

[dawgman42]

I’ve always said my retirement plan is I want to the “ U.S. Executioner!” They could pay me a hefty sum and fly me around to any state whenever an execution is scheduled. I’d guarantee I wouldn’t screw it up. My only demand is I want a cool executioner’s mask!


View attachment 1463063

Username CERTAINLY checks out.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Get a room you two. Just 17 and get it over with.

 

[615dawg]

Not going to be surprised if it comes back that the drugs were tampered with by this all female team.

I used to be a "immediately in the public square" guy until I read the story of Patricia Stallings. Now i believe there should be an appeal process, but not 30 years.

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

This is certainly not the first time there's been a botched execution. Anyone remember the one at Angola prison in Louisiana?

"My name is John Coffey, like the drink, only not spelled the same."

 

[bolddogge]

I was just told this is the second botched execution this team has performed.
Could there be a motive to possibly have this popular and most humane of executions to be deemed "cruel and unusual".

 

[olblue]

This seems like something that would happen on Marsha Blackburn’s watch. Has she already been sworn in?

 

[Drebin]

Not going to be surprised if it comes back that the drugs were tampered with by this all female team.

I used to be a "immediately in the public square" guy until I read the story of Patricia Stallings. Now i believe there should be an appeal process, but not 30 years.

I agree that there should be an appeals process. Execution is the most extreme punishment and there must be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that they're guilty. But I don't endorse this "cruel and unusual" nonsense. I think those sentenced should be executed in the exact same way that they committed their crime. And we should broadcast them on pay per view. Would be a pretty effective deterrence and maybe provide some revenue to relax the deficit or relieve our tax burden a bit.

 

[POTUS]

There's no such thing. You can always find a way to question the evidence, even if the alleged uncertainty is pretty crazy. And then who is the final arbiter of whether the evidence is "ironclad"?

This is much easier than you are making it out to be. Like the Clancy case for example. Did 3 children get strangled to death? Yes. Do we know who strangled them? Yes. Was this person under the influence of hormonal activity and/or medicine? Who cares, see the answer to questions 1 & 2. The deaths of those children demands justice and the execution of their killer. Even if the guilty party is “insane” they should be killed. It’s the only way to show that the life of the victims mattered. Hanging, Injection, Firing Squad, is inconsequential. They forfeited their right to draw breath.

 

[golferdog]

This is happening now. The state of Tennessee just pumped this lady with two doses of lethal injection, and she did not die. She woke up after the first dose and asked the warden, “this is burning, is this normal.” They rushed the witnesses out of the room and they sent an ambulance crew in to take her to the hospital.

Unbelievable. How do you mess this up? Embarrassing for the State of TN. They've only had 30 years to prepare for that. Crazy story.

 

[LandArchDawg]

To show how ridiculously long and costly these death sentences are. She was convicted in March of 1996.

The injection drugs were probably that old too, which is why they didn't work.

 

[HailStout]

I was just told this is the second botched execution this team has performed.
Could there be a motive to possibly have this popular and most humane of executions to be deemed "cruel and unusual".

Considering my interactions with people in general recently I suspect it is more just good ole fashioned incompetence

 

[eckie1]

Where are the Salem witch trials when you need them? She’s more than proven she’s a witch, so relieve her of her ugly *** head.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Maybe Tennessee just needs to replace the execution staff with this lady. She seems to be qualified.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Considering my interactions with people in general recently I suspect it is more just good ole fashioned incompetence

It was because of IV infiltration so definitely sounds like incompetence

 

[thekimmer]

In the US alone 9 billion livestock are humanely slaughtered and probably millions of dogs and cats euthanized and can't handle a single execution? That is world-class incompetence.

 

[JY1947]

How the 17 do you 17 up a lethal injection????

first injection is a sedative. They obviously got that one in. You basically give them enough to knock down an elephant so they don’t suffer

step 2 is a paralytic that makes it where all of your muscles, including your respiratory muscles stop moving. So you stop breathing

step 3 is a large bolus of potassium chloride. That will shut your heart down immediately.

it isn’t rocket science. Somebody gonna lose their job and this lady will probably never be executed now.

Tennessee uses a 1 drug protocol instead of the 3-drug other states use

 

[Dawgzilla2]

This is much easier than you are making it out to be. Like the Clancy case for example. Did 3 children get strangled to death? Yes. Do we know who strangled them? Yes. Was this person under the influence of hormonal activity and/or medicine? Who cares, see the answer to questions 1 & 2. The deaths of those children demands justice and the execution of their killer. Even if the guilty party is “insane” they should be killed. It’s the only way to show that the life of the victims mattered. Hanging, Injection, Firing Squad, is inconsequential. They forfeited their right to draw breath.

Forget the insanity defense for now, that's a different issue. I am actually arguing against some higher standard of evidence for the death penalty.

The statement was that we should only execute people based on "ironclad" evidence. That's a noble idea in theory. I'm just saying this higher legal standard is impossible to attain. You can find a way to question the veracity of any evidence that exists. Thats why our standard is "beyond REASONABLE doubt", and there is no higher standard. While you can question the veracity of the evidence, are those questions reasonable?

Even in the Clancy case, her attorney just filed a motion for an acquittal, claiming the evidence is all based on speculation. No one saw her commit the murders. There is a ton of evidence that she was there, and no one else was there, and she sort of confessed at the hospital. That was enough for a jury to find beyond reasonable doubt, but it certainly is not "ironclad".

Plus, for the death penalty, you first must prove murder beyond reasonable doubt, and then, in a separate trial, prove at least one aggravating circumstance beyond reasonable doubt. And even then, the jury must weigh the aggravating circumstances against mitigating factors.

And with all of that, we have still executed innocent people.

How would an "ironclad evidence" rule even work? After finding someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt, would the jury then have to decide if the evidence is "ironclad" enough to qualify for the death penalty?

 

[DawgNsuds]

Blame Thomas Jefferson, I guess?

James Madison is the Father of the Constitution and credited with the Bill of Rights and the 8th amendment. Jefferson was a supporter, but Madison is usually given most of the credit.

 

[mstateglfr]

It actually should be a traumatizing event and should be more public. The whole reason for execution is based in trauma. Don't do this or you are next.

Western society is so polite we decided it should be hidden and peaceful and be 30 years after the fact so no one who has emotions about the event is actually present.

Death penalty should be abolished, or it should be swift and sudden and horrifying.

Justice is swift is BS in its current implementation.

I was commenting on how I think it could be traumatic for some that are having to deal with the failed execution.
I disagree with your view that it should be traumatic for workers that are having to manage the process and fallout of it failing.

 

[GloryDawg]

 

[mstateglfr]

Liberal white women like you should be deported to any Muslim country

Only on SPS is it somehow controversial to say 'well that is horrific' to an accounting of a failed execution where the person wakes up and asks if the burning is normal.
I think that is a horrific scenario for those involved.


I dont know why in response, you called me a liberal white woman and said I should be deported to a Muslim country.
That seems very random and unhinged.

 

[dudehead]

If you’re sentenced to die it should be within the year. 30 years is ridiculous.

It's because the death penalty is a perfect sentence resulting from an imperfect determination of guilt.

 

[mcdawg22]

Forget the insanity defense for now, that's a different issue. I am actually arguing against some higher standard of evidence for the death penalty.

The statement was that we should only execute people based on "ironclad" evidence. That's a noble idea in theory. I'm just saying this higher legal standard is impossible to attain. You can find a way to question the veracity of any evidence that exists. Thats why our standard is "beyond REASONABLE doubt", and there is no higher standard. While you can question the veracity of the evidence, are those questions reasonable?

Even in the Clancy case, her attorney just filed a motion for an acquittal, claiming the evidence is all based on speculation. No one saw her commit the murders. There is a ton of evidence that she was there, and no one else was there, and she sort of confessed at the hospital. That was enough for a jury to find beyond reasonable doubt, but it certainly is not "ironclad".

Plus, for the death penalty, you first must prove murder beyond reasonable doubt, and then, in a separate trial, prove at least one aggravating circumstance beyond reasonable doubt. And even then, the jury must weigh the aggravating circumstances against mitigating factors.

And with all of that, we have still executed innocent people.

How would an "ironclad evidence" rule even work? After finding someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt, would the jury then have to decide if the evidence is "ironclad" enough to qualify for the death penalty?

I get it. I used a word that is preposterous. Use the same logic you use to overule fumble. Caught in the act. Clear video evidence. Of course with emerging technology that becomes muddied. History of violent crime. Nothing will be perfect but we have seen so many improvements in the last 40 years in being able to “prove” guilt that we should do what we can to minimize executing innocent people. Of course there is no magic timeline either. There may be something invented 35 years after someone innocent is sentenced to die that would have saved him if it took 36 years to execute him. There will never be a perfect solution.

 

[DerHntr]

Forget the insanity defense for now, that's a different issue. I am actually arguing against some higher standard of evidence for the death penalty.

The statement was that we should only execute people based on "ironclad" evidence. That's a noble idea in theory. I'm just saying this higher legal standard is impossible to attain. You can find a way to question the veracity of any evidence that exists. Thats why our standard is "beyond REASONABLE doubt", and there is no higher standard. While you can question the veracity of the evidence, are those questions reasonable?

Even in the Clancy case, her attorney just filed a motion for an acquittal, claiming the evidence is all based on speculation. No one saw her commit the murders. There is a ton of evidence that she was there, and no one else was there, and she sort of confessed at the hospital. That was enough for a jury to find beyond reasonable doubt, but it certainly is not "ironclad".

Plus, for the death penalty, you first must prove murder beyond reasonable doubt, and then, in a separate trial, prove at least one aggravating circumstance beyond reasonable doubt. And even then, the jury must weigh the aggravating circumstances against mitigating factors.

And with all of that, we have still executed innocent people.

How would an "ironclad evidence" rule even work? After finding someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt, would the jury then have to decide if the evidence is "ironclad" enough to qualify for the death penalty?

To at least provide an answer: In cases where it is on video, I’d say that’s ironclad enough. People still sit for decades in those instances. When a witness sees it happen, calls 911, the killer is still on scene when the cops arrive, admits it, and is covered in blood. When the cops show up on scene to a shooting, are fired upon by the shooter, capture him, and find dead bodies. That’s probably more often than the other two options.

I’m not suggesting that this be the standard. I’m just saying there are times when it is 100% verifiable that someone committed murder. I’m sure it’s rare.

 

[Crucifictorious]

This is happening now. The state of Tennessee just pumped this lady with two doses of lethal injection, and she did not die. She woke up after the first dose and asked the warden, “this is burning, is this normal.” They rushed the witnesses out of the room and they sent an ambulance crew in to take her to the hospital.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Name checks out

 

[Colonel Angus.sixpack]

So she claimed she was raped early in her life. So as a result of her claiming she'd be traumatized by being restrained on a table by an all male team, she requested that the execution team be all female. That might be the reason it's botched right there.

Raped or not, that doesn’t give you carte blanc to kill. She still had a choice and she chose poorly.

 

[BTCMoonBoy]

So she claimed she was raped early in her life. So as a result of her claiming she'd be traumatized by being restrained on a table by an all male team, she requested that the execution team be all female. That might be the reason it's botched right there.

Another DEI failure

 

[patdog]

If you’re sentenced to die it should be within the year. 30 years is ridiculous.

I can see a couple of years. But yeah. This is one reason we need to do away with the death penalty. Much cheaper to just let them rot in jail until they die.

 

[SanfordRJones]

There's no such thing. You can always find a way to question the evidence, even if the alleged uncertainty is pretty crazy. And then who is the final arbiter of whether the evidence is "ironclad"?

Which is one of the myriad reasons why capital punishment has no place in a civilized society.

 

[Pink Floyd.sixpack]

Six pack never disappoints.
We have authorities on what it takes to properly execute someone and authorities on how it can be done better.

 

[MagnoliaHunter]

She is just too evil to die.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

I’m not suggesting that this be the standard. I’m just saying there are times when it is 100% verifiable that someone committed murder. I’m sure it’s rare.

No, there is never 100% verifiable evidence. You can get really close to 100%. But you would quickly encounter a case that appeared to be 100% to some, but not to others.