In defense of Beamer, Part II

[18IsTheMan]

Maybe things aren't all as bad as they seem. We all know Beamer was not ready for a head coaching and that he's been learning on the job. I think last year was the first time he finally made some grown-up head coaching decisions in terms of staffing changes. He was 2 years too late on the OL change, but finally pulled the trigger. Then he went out and made several solid staff hires. Our Achille's heel last year, without question, was the OL and subsequently the offense. As frustrated as we have been with Seller's play, the offense has actually been fine and they are not in the least bit responsible for 2 of our 3 losses. The offense didn't put up 30 or more points in any SEC contest last year. This year, we've had 34 points in two SEC games and lost them both. That simply should not happen. Cannot happen.

The problem this year, quite unexpectedly, has been the defense, and primarily the secondary, though the DL has dropped of considerably as well. Nobody really saw this coming. Nobody was on here this offseason talking about the DL or the secondary, at least not in any in-depth way. Virtually all the focus was on the OL and the offense. Indeed, quite a few posters wrote of the reconstructed OL as a failure waiting to happen b/c there was no way you could get an entirely new OL to perform well as a unit.

But, the offense and OL have been fine. Better than fine, actually. We have scored 30+ points in 4 of our 5 games. Based on offensive performance, we should be 4-1, right now and a top 25 team.

The defense drop-off has been a surprise to most everyone. Even those who thought there might be some issues never could have predicted our porous secondary. DC simply has not been a point of concern around here for a while. In fact, there were some who were worried last offseason that White might be leaving us for a better job.

I say ALL of that to say, Beamer finally showed some glimmers of having coaching chops last offseason when he made the moves necessary to fix the offense, including gutting the entire OL. And the moves worked, though few around here really thought they would. The offense hasn't been perfect, but it's more than amply good enough for us to be 4-1. Since he finally showed he was able to identify and fix issues with staffing and personnel changes, I can see giving him a year to get the defense back in shape.

Again, nobody really predicted or expected these defensive problems. If the offense or OL were still a problem, I wouldn't be so forgiving. Given that the defensive problems are new and that he finally showed last year that he's capable of making necessary changes, I'd be willing to ride this out another year. Financially, we may not have any other choice anyway.

What's one more year going to cost us? If it doesn't work, it means we'll be firing Beamer's replacement in 6-7 years as opposed to 5-6 years.

 

[sclawman77]

Fans won't show if we keep losing and boos will be ringing loud on tv-not the look the admin wants. Club membership will drop and probably booster support. Message to the fanbase and to the college football world: we accept and reward losing.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

Agree with you that the offense is not the reason for our losses but I do not see the defense getting fixed this year as I assume we are playing our best players in the secondary. Beamer has taken us from DBU to NoDBU under his watch and apparently the cupboard is bare. I believe the fan base is just weary of losing regardless of whether it's offense or defense as the problem and see more of same as inevitable if Beamer stays.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Fans won't show if we keep losing and boos will be ringing loud on tv-not the look the admin wants. Club membership will drop and probably booster support. Message to the fanbase and to the college football world: we accept and reward losing.

It’s been 130 years. Fans didn’t withdraw support even after 1-21.

That is probably the main reason we have remained a mediocre program. The fans have never really demanded anything better.

 

[sclawman77]

It’s been 130 years. Fans didn’t withdraw support even after 1-22.

I didn't mean the stadium would be completely empty. There will still be some diehards. But this isn't '99 anymore either. They also had hope that Lou would turn it around. They're losing or have lost hope in Beamer. It's also a lot more expensive to attend games and support the club. Fans may be watching from home but they won't be showing much next year if Shane is retained. If Brad was retained in '99 it would have been similar probably.

 

[sclawman77]

Maybe we are truly stuck with Beamer for another season which would suck. Cloniger says that's the case because we flat out can't afford it. But I think Chris from this site says we can afford a change but are trying to navigate fiscally responsibly. So maybe after the season? I think Paris' future may be weighing into these decisions as well.Should be interesting.

 

[Uscg1984]

It’s been 130 years. Fans didn’t withdraw support even after 1-21.

Different time altogether. You could go to a game for $25 and park for $5. In that era, we were expanding capacity at WB instead of shrinking it. Not every game was on TV and none of them were broadcast in hi-def. The fans also were optimistic our new Hall of Fame coach would turn things around. The administration decided to adopt a pro model for tickets that doesn't reward loyalty and if they bring Beamer back after having a terrible season, I think they're going to see what a pro model looks like when fans have given up on a team.

 

[Go Gamecocks]

Fans won't show if we keep losing and boos will be ringing loud on tv-not the look the admin wants.

Maybe we should let the fans attend some practices? That might pep them up.

 

[I4CtheFuture]

Did not read, because:

 

[uscjunkie]

Fans won't show if we keep losing and boos will be ringing loud on tv-not the look the admin wants. Club membership will drop and probably booster support. Message to the fanbase and to the college football world: we accept and reward losing.

If you believe that, you know nothing about Carolina football!

 

[uscjunkie]

Different time altogether. You could go to a game for $25 and park for $5. In that era, we were expanding capacity at WB instead of shrinking it. Not every game was on TV and none of them were broadcast in hi-def. The fans also were optimistic our new Hall of Fame coach would turn things around. The administration decided to adopt a pro model for tickets that doesn't reward loyalty and if they bring Beamer back after having a terrible season, I think they're going to see what a pro model looks like when fans have given up on a team.

I will bet you $100 the place is packed again next year. Our fans consider it a badge of pride to say we packed the place even when there was no reason to! That mindset is not going to change! Not to mention, SC fans are always the eternal optimists!

 

[sclawman77]

If you believe that, you know nothing about Carolina football!

It's a different time and I clearly stated "if we keep losing". My description about fans not coming was referring to him possibly being retained next year. I've been a Carolina fan for almost 50 years-grew up in Columbia and had season tickets for years. There will be diehards but plenty will stay home if he's still the coach next year. Another difference is no coach that has lost like Shane is doing right now has ever been retained after 6 seasons-at least in my lifetime.

Does this sound like an excited fanbase that wants to keep giving next year if this guy is coach?

 

[Deathstar]

What else is there to do in Columbia in the fall, sit home and sweat or party at the football game and sweat? It’s just a social event, fans leave at the half and keep the party going. Nobody seems to care if we win or lose.

 

[sclawman77]

What else is there to do in Columbia in the fall, sit home and sweat or party at the football game and sweat? It’s just a social event, fans leave at the half and keep the party going. Nobody seems to care if we win or lose.

Some truth to this and I'd definitely agree 10 or 20 years ago. I've known people like this. There are probably plenty that still do this but for many these days there are much cheaper ways to party or spend the hundreds (or thousands) wasted on a game on a weekend trip to the beach or the mountains instead.

 

[Lurker123]

Maybe things aren't all as bad as they seem. We all know Beamer was not ready for a head coaching and that he's been learning on the job. I think last year was the first time he finally made some grown-up head coaching decisions in terms of staffing changes. He was 2 years too late on the OL change, but finally pulled the trigger. Then he went out and made several solid staff hires. Our Achille's heel last year, without question, was the OL and subsequently the offense. As frustrated as we have been with Seller's play, the offense has actually been fine and they are not in the least bit responsible for 2 of our 3 losses. The offense didn't put up 30 or more points in any SEC contest last year. This year, we've had 34 points in two SEC games and lost them both. That simply should not happen. Cannot happen.

The problem this year, quite unexpectedly, has been the defense, and primarily the secondary, though the DL has dropped of considerably as well. Nobody really saw this coming. Nobody was on here this offseason talking about the DL or the secondary, at least not in any in-depth way. Virtually all the focus was on the OL and the offense. Indeed, quite a few posters wrote of the reconstructed OL as a failure waiting to happen b/c there was no way you could get an entirely new OL to perform well as a unit.

But, the offense and OL have been fine. Better than fine, actually. We have scored 30+ points in 4 of our 5 games. Based on offensive performance, we should be 4-1, right now and a top 25 team.

The defense drop-off has been a surprise to most everyone. Even those who thought there might be some issues never could have predicted our porous secondary. DC simply has not been a point of concern around here for a while. In fact, there were some who were worried last offseason that White might be leaving us for a better job.

I say ALL of that to say, Beamer finally showed some glimmers of having coaching chops last offseason when he made the moves necessary to fix the offense, including gutting the entire OL. And the moves worked, though few around here really thought they would. The offense hasn't been perfect, but it's more than amply good enough for us to be 4-1. Since he finally showed he was able to identify and fix issues with staffing and personnel changes, I can see giving him a year to get the defense back in shape.

Again, nobody really predicted or expected these defensive problems. If the offense or OL were still a problem, I wouldn't be so forgiving. Given that the defensive problems are new and that he finally showed last year that he's capable of making necessary changes, I'd be willing to ride this out another year. Financially, we may not have any other choice anyway.

What's one more year going to cost us? If it doesn't work, it means we'll be firing Beamer's replacement in 6-7 years as opposed to 5-6 years.

I was one who thought a completely revamped OL would still be an issue simpky because it takes time to build an OL. I think I underestimated this new age of free agency.

 

[rockingamecock]

My entire family has given up on the Carolina football experience (the Gamecock club, season tickets, tailgating, etc). We did it for many, many years and it used to be the highlight of the fall. Some of us have since moved out of Columbia and to be honest we don't miss it at all. Other than the Spurrier years, there was nothing and there's been nothing since.

 

[atlanta cock#]

It’s been 130 years. Fans didn’t withdraw support even after 1-21.

That is probably the main reason we have remained a mediocre program. The fans have never really demanded anything better.

Support was there bc of faith Holtz could turn it around.

 

[atlanta cock#]

Did not read, because:

This.

 

[Lurker123]

If you believe that, you know nothing about Carolina football!

I would agree for the past. We pride ourselves on being "iron fans" and filling the stadium even through 1-21.

I wonder if todays fans will do the same? There is a cost factor, and now a convenience factor with 80" TV's and every game televised.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I would agree for the past. We pride ourselves on being "iron fans" and filling the stadium even through 1-21.

I wonder if todays fans will do the same? There is a cost factor, and now a convenience factor with 80" TV's and every game televised.

My guess is, yes. I would only see it maybe changing a bit b/c of NIL and the fact that these are now professional athletes. But I'd still put my money on the fans showing up.

I go back and forth between "fire him yesterday" and "is it really worth it?" Considering the buyout and the fact that he was actually able to get the offense squared away, I could see giving him a year to get the D back on track. Of all the things fans were worried about this year, defense and DC weren't a concern. It came out of nowhere.

 

[Deathstar]

Having Beamer as our coach is like owning a Nissan Altima and being under water on the loan. Nobody wants it, you cannot sell it and you cannot afford to trade it in for a new car.

 

[gamecockengineer2011]

Clayton White and his defense has really carried this program throughout Beamer's tenure and kept the team in games even when the offense has been putrid. Our secondary has been the one unit on the whole team to consistently churn out NFL talent. I have to think this year is an outlier for both.

I think if Beamer is allowed to return next year, we have to go to get a new WR coach. Our wide receivers suck. They cant get open, they cant catch, and they aren't physical enough for effective blocking.

If I was Briles I would consider rotating QBs to get Cutter Woods (presumably our starter next year) some experience, take a little pressure off LaNorris, and give LaNorris a chance to see whats going on in the game. Spurrier did that a bunch when he had a starting QB struggle.

 

[USCTEKE]

I would welcome getting rid of White Furrey and Elliott

 

[Swifty]

There are two glaring issues with this team:
-The defense just looks lost at times. Undisciplined lanes by the DL and the DBs have been mostly crap.
-Yes, the team shows heart and doesn't give up and that can be credited to Beamer's same demeanor. But my goodness, they just can't finish. It's night and day from the second half of '24. That's something that Beamer, himself, HAS to figure out and fix. NOW.
The defense made their stop to keep Kentucky from winning in regulation, then the second they scored and the defense looked lost, Beamer should have called timeout. That lets the team prepare for a 2 pt conversion play. Maybe they still go for it and still convert. Maybe Stein changes his mind and they kick the PAT. Maybe they miss it. Maybe they beat us on they next OT or the sixth OT. Maybe we hold them to a FG in the second OT and we get a TD. Maybe, maybe, maybe. But you canNOT sit there with your Karl Childers expression and watch that happen. Kentucky was more than likely already prepared that if they were in that position, they would go for two and already knew they play. That was just an inexcusable error to have that play unfold with a timeout in the back pocket. Unacceptable.

 

[Go Gamecocks]

Having Beamer as our coach is like owning a Nissan Altima and being under water on the loan. Nobody wants it, you cannot sell it and you cannot afford to trade it in for a new car.

Poor Altimas....everytime I see one, I think "why did you buy that"...but most of them were probably 2nd-hand & bought cheap.

 

[Piscis]

Some truth to this and I'd definitely agree 10 or 20 years ago. I've known people like this. There are probably plenty that still do this but for many these days there are much cheaper ways to party or spend the hundreds (or thousands) wasted on a game on a weekend trip to the beach or the mountains instead.

Did you see the stadium Saturday in the second half? There were thousands and thousands of empty seats and the game was still very competitive.

I've been going to and watching SC games for 50 years. SC fans leaving early is something that can be counted on like the Sun rising in the East. It does not matter what is going on on the field. To quote the Masters promotions, it is a tradition like no other.

 

[Go Gamecocks]

Clayton White and his defense has really carried this program throughout Beamer's tenure and kept the team in games even when the offense has been putrid.

Yep...something else is wrong. White didn't suddenly go stupid on coaching defense overnight.

Do we have a talent gap on defense that didn't exist the past few seasons?

 

[Piscis]

My guess is, yes. I would only see it maybe changing a bit b/c of NIL and the fact that these are now professional athletes. But I'd still put my money on the fans showing up.

I go back and forth between "fire him yesterday" and "is it really worth it?" Considering the buyout and the fact that he was actually able to get the offense squared away, I could see giving him a year to get the D back on track. Of all the things fans were worried about this year, defense and DC weren't a concern. It came out of nowhere.

I don't think it's worth it. If Beamer is fired, the new coach will generate a few years of excitement and probably have a decent season in year 3 that will give the fans the false sense that things are turned around. Then, the losing seasons and 6 or 7 win seasons will fall in place and by year 6, we will be back to where we are now.

Why go through all of that to get back to the same place?

 

[Lurker123]

I don't think it's worth it. If Beamer is fired, the new coach will generate a few years of excitement and probably have a decent season in year 3 that will give the fans the false sense that things are turned around. Then, the losing seasons and 6 or 7 win seasons will fall in place and by year 6, we will be back to where we are now.

Why go through all of that to get back to the same place?

On the chance we find a coach better than a 20 year position coach whose entire career was built on being his dad's son?

 

[18IsTheMan]

Yep...something else is wrong. White didn't suddenly go stupid on coaching defense overnight.

Do we have a talent gap on defense that didn't exist the past few seasons?

Beamer bristled when he was asked why he didn't bring back DQ Smith after he was given the 5th year of eligibility. Could have used him.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I don't think it's worth it. If Beamer is fired, the new coach will generate a few years of excitement and probably have a decent season in year 3 that will give the fans the false sense that things are turned around. Then, the losing seasons and 6 or 7 win seasons will fall in place and by year 6, we will be back to where we are now.

Why go through all of that to get back to the same place?

I come back this most often. No matter if/when Beamer is replaced, that most likely buys us 5-6 years with his replacement.

 

[Go Gamecocks]

....Karl Childers expression.....

 

[Go Gamecocks]

Beamer bristled when he was asked why he didn't bring back DQ Smith after he was given the 5th year of eligibility. Could have used him.

Seriously...sometimes one player can make a big difference, especially with on the field IQ and leadership.

 

[Piscis]

On the chance we find a coach better than a 20 year position coach whose entire career was built on being his dad's son?

OK, who exactly is going to be interested in the football coaching job at a program that has proven to be a career killer?

Do we get another retread old guy who retired and wants to satisfy his ego that he can still coach?
Do we hire another failed HC who had a good season or two at a previous job?
Do we hire another SoCon coach who had won a lot of games in FCS?
Do we hire an OC or DC from a big name program and hope he has the skill set to be a successful head coach and let him learn the job on our dime?

 

[18IsTheMan]

Seriously...sometimes one player can make a big difference, especially with on the field IQ and leadership.

Yep, you need that "quarterback of the defense" kind of player.

 

[18IsTheMan]

OK, who exactly is going to be interested in the football coaching job at a program that has proven to be a career killer?

Do we get another retread old guy who retired and wants to satisfy his ego that he can still coach?
Do we hire another failed HC who had a good season or two at a previous job?
Do we hire another SoCon coach who had won a lot of games in FCS?
Do we hire an OC or DC from a big name program and hope he has the skill set to be a successful head coach and let him learn the job on our dime?

I would make one phone call: Urban Meyer.

I don't care about anything else...the man wins games. Period.

 

[Piscis]

I would make one phone call: Urban Meyer.

I don't care about anything else...the man wins games. Period.

He wouldn't take the call. Meyer only goes to places with built in advantages. Ohio State was perfect for him. He knew they were basically an SEC program in the B1G and he could win right away. UF was loaded with talent when he got there. When Tebow left, Meyer lost interest and was ready to get out of Dodge. Meyer has never gone anywhere that he knew he would have to build a program.

 

[Lurker123]

OK, who exactly is going to be interested in the football coaching job at a program that has proven to be a career killer?

Do we get another retread old guy who retired and wants to satisfy his ego that he can still coach?
Do we hire another failed HC who had a good season or two at a previous job?
Do we hire another SoCon coach who had won a lot of games in FCS?
Do we hire an OC or DC from a big name program and hope he has the skill set to be a successful head coach and let him learn the job on our dime?

I would look to coordinators (real ones, not STC) of P4 schools first, followed by HC's of lower conferences like G5.

Given the money we pay, I believe we can find a guy that would come here.

We dont have to insist that he have ties to SC, or the SEC, that isn't real important anymore. We simply need a coach that wasnt just fired, or whose entire career isn't "my daddy's name is". The bar is literally that low.

I know it will seem like flavor of the week, but UK is a dumpster fire of a football program, and they took a chance. In the very short term, it looks like a good move.

He may fail in time, but I bet the UK fans are enjoying this much more than another Stoops year.

 

[18IsTheMan]

He wouldn't take the call. Meyer only goes to places with built in advantages. Ohio State was perfect for him. He knew they were basically an SEC program in the B1G and he could win right away. UF was loaded with talent when he got there. When Tebow left, Meyer lost interest and was ready to get out of Dodge. Meyer has never gone anywhere that he knew he would have to build a program.

I mean, he won at Bowling Green and Utah. Not a lot of advantages at those schools.

You are right, though. He probably wouldn't take the call, but I'd dial the number. There is only one sure thing in hiring college football coaches, and that's Urban Meyer.

 

[Piscis]

I mean, he won at Bowling Green and Utah. Not a lot of advantages at those schools.

You are right, though. He probably wouldn't take the call, but I'd dial the number. There is only one sure thing in hiring college football coaches, and that's Urban Meyer.

I don't know much about Bowling Green and he was only there 2 years. He had the same tenure at Utah, 2 years. Utah is, and has been, a power in the Mountain West. Meyer didn't go there and build a program from scratch.

I don't think Meyer has the ego that Spurrier or Holtz had that keeps him up at night wanting to prove he "still has it". He was winning big at Ohio State when he was invited to leave. His stint at Jacksonville showed him he wasn't an NFL coach. The NFL has too much parity of talent, Meyer couldn't rely on having a roster that was vastly more talented than 90% of the teams he played. Meyer would know he wouldn't have that big talent advantage at SC either. He saw the relative parity of talent in the upper tier of the SEC when he didn't have Tebow any more and he walked away from UF.

I'm sure he gets calls all the time.